Toxicity = bad for server population

[Ghostscythe]

Have had this happen multiple times this week.

Good games going, 8-14 people on the server, for 5-8 games in a row. Server rotates to toxicity and empties.

Yes you can vote, but server owners - maybe consider removing a map that, as far as I can tell, people don't like to play on?

I'm sure the map could be more liked with a rework, but as-is, it seems to cause more problems than good.

edit - could also be because we were playing on relatively low server population at the time...but when 6-8 people leave at once (with 4 still remaining) that's an issue

Edited January 29, 2020 by Ghostscythe

[NodSaibot]

This next patch will most likely include a feature for server owners to enable map filtering based on player count. That being said, AllNoobs does not have Toxicity in rotation.

[Ryz]

One problem might be that the map has to be built for some people, had that last week or the week before.

 

Another problem, despite the hard work of the developer, is that toxicity (new and older version) is not liked by a lot of people. I guess it has something to do with the style / feeling off the map. Nexus also built a few large maps with the same theme but they received more positive feedback. For my his map design feels more logical then the design of Toxicity. 

[euan-missile]

Honestly it's not just toxicity. I've noticed a bunch of maps empty the server like nobodies business. Some of the top picks are 

Oasis, Volcano, Snow X, Tunnels, Toxicity, Daybreak.

Problem is, it all depends on when. If you played oasis in early mornings nobody would leave. Play it at peak hour? may as well be shutting your server offline. Save someones electric bill. - same for Daybreak and Toxicity in the opposite time frame. 

Personally, I like the older version of Toxicity. There's alot to do and alot of different ways to do it, it's a real grind. But for some people, they just wanna come into renegade x and not think so hard after a long day, so they prefer maps like Island instead. 

 

 

[Ghostscythe]

Thinking more, some ideas come to mind re: improving it:

• It seems like there might be too many ways to get places
• Offhand, I don't think there's a way to get into any building without destroying turrets. That lowers the excitement factor because it's a grind to get an advantage
• For someone new to the map, it's really not clear which part is infantry-only - at first glance the whole middle looks like it'd be open to them. That's a little frustrating

On the other hand, being able to use Titans as GDI is really fun, and where vehicles can go, the terrain provides some good variation for vehicles like light tanks to play with. Doesn't feel unbalanced for one side or another, either.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Ghostscythe

[crazfulla]

Toxicity went to shit when it was last updated. It is just so insane right now. Whoever made it needs to roll back some of the radical changes. But thats a map issue, not a server issue.

Edited February 10, 2020 by crazfulla

[NodSaibot]

2 hours ago, crazfulla said:

Toxicity went to shit when it was last updated. It is just so insane right now. Whoever made it needs to roll back some of the radical changes. But thats a map issue, not a server issue.

We appreciate feedback. If you could give some specific examples or changes you would like to see implemented, feel free to expound. I'm sure @Madkill40 appreciates all feedback.

[Mystic~]

I actually like the latest version of Toxicity without the free Recon bikes, it feels like a well made Tiberian Sun era map similar to Steppe and Crash Site, but I feel just like Eyes was in the beginning, Nod has a massively favourable advantage over GDI with stealth ability and with the Tick-Tanks, it seems to too easily counter any of GDIs strengths, so the map feels very frustrating to play. But it's been played so little, nobody knows what tactics work or don't work yet, and everyone just expects an instant quality game on a map they've played in original Renegade that everyone remembers like Field or Under, which are two maps I'm utterly sick of playing. It's almost like we need a server with Vanilla only maps and another with New Content maps - and then maybe people will begin to appreciate what others are creating. I think large maps require large numbers of players to be worthwhile. I'll also just add, any infantry expected to traverse a large battlefield without things like trench cover or enough stamina are just sitting duck frustrations waiting to happen because there are so many places snipers can hide and just pick off expensive and hard to replace characters the moment they wander out of their bases.

Might be worth adding "map" to your post title so it's not confused with in-game toxicity due to people's behaviour.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Mystic~

[Reivax]

32 minutes ago, Mystic~ said:

 nobody knows what tactics work or don't work yet,

defend your harvester and destroy enemies' one - recon bike at 250$ are pretty useful for that, i think GDI will have serious problems to counter that, but u know.. because no one will defend/attack harvesters, it will never be a problem  

if you keep your harvester alive and destroy enemy harvester, you can buy tanks, camp enemy base entrances.
To win, well.. off buff for tank push? or try a rocket rush carried by APC to quickly come from your base to enemy base entrances  

[Mystic~]

Well I was part of an 7-8 strong Gunner rush the other day, we made it down the left side of the map but had to kill two Mendoza along the way so probably knew we were coming. Our rockets were fired from so far away and took so long to land at the target hon that it barely did anything against a tech repairing inside. We needed APCs really, but then we'd have probably been spotted anyway or a stank would have destroyed one. I don't like how far the harvesters have to travel and how easily exposed they are, even with silos it's a poor economy game and Nod can just silo camp with an sbh + rep tool and already had field superiority due to economy and higher level character numbers and tanks. I like the map now, but I think it still needs work.

[Madkill40]

I actually made the GDI Barracks more susceptible to infantry rushes, however you still require an EMP at the very least to get inside the Barracks, but you can leap from the infantry path into the GDI Barracks. [As with the Hand of Nod, it was quite easy to sneak in if unattended]

The Refinery's are still prone to being infiltrated, the capturable silos can be defended with vehicles as well as infantry for each teams' side, but not attacked with vehicles without going through either teams' base. *From each capturable silo there are vehicle perches deliberately to attack static enemies camping the middle base entrances]

The harvesters are intended to be prone to attack and I can't particularly change the distance the harvesters must go to procure tiberium, defend them from attackers and you should be okay. Harvesters, Comm. C. and Silos are the intended early game infantry targets primarily. I dislike infantry that can destroy a building in under 5 minutes with ease (but this can still be done)

I need to know which direction to change the global stealth settings for the map, I want stanking and SBHs to be doable but I don't want them to be Nod's sole weapon for one of the easiest achieved victories [given that there are so many routes, stealth tanks/inf still need to be challenged] 

I've designed the map in such a way that attacking from blindspots from afar is more difficult, but there is only so much that I can do to modify the map without being around when players actually play on the map.

Toxicity is designed for a minimum of 36-40 players due to the size and openness, minor base defence's are to deter early game infiltration (which is not impossible, just challenging) but they're only minor defenses and can't be expected to defend an entire entrance by themselves. There are enough minor defenses in the base to prevent early-game rushes but even then, infantry can still do their infantry thang.

I didn't think the TickTank would have given Nod so much of an advantage over GDI. 

How often is the middle section contested? Its purpose is a through-route for vehicles to flank other vehicles.

Also, both teams should use APCs frequently just like the Chinooks on Walls.

There are only two vehicle routes into each base, cover the tib field and middle with vehicles whilst having at least two infantry watch the base for infiltration and either team should have a hard to defending.

There isn't a lot I can do for the map to make it less of a sniper haven, however I am all for adding blocking volumes to prevent snipers from achieving a height advantage that would give them a large open view.

Many players from what I've noticed in the past don't attempt to go to the capturable silos with vehicles, despite the location being a one-way exit from the base onto the field. 

Toxicity being a GDI or Nod map seems debatable as I've heard different players state it is in favour of either team, it just depends on their experience. 

Criticisms and feedback are always welcome.

Lastly, Toxicity has so many opportunities to flank your enemy in numerous ways - the only weakness for either team is the tibfield route, which is intentional - cover your vehicle entrances but don't let your enemy keep you in your base, there is always a way out with Toxicity.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Madkill40

[Madkill40]

On 1/29/2020 at 5:50 AM, Ghostscythe said:

Good games going, 8-14 people on the server, for 5-8 games in a row. Server rotates to toxicity and empties.

Other than a more compact version of Toxicity I don't know how I'd be able to make the map more ideal for player populations of 8-14.

[crazfulla]

My main complaint about the increase in "spikeyness" of the terrain through the vehicle paths (in front of each base's main entrance) is that this favours Nod... Artys and Stanks can fire over the crest of a rise in the terrain but GDI units generally cannot. Well, with the exception of MRLS if they curve their rockets. Also it restricts movement of larger GDI units like the Mammoth and Titan. Pretty sure I have yet to see GDI win that map since it was last updated.

This coming from a Nod player.

Edited February 16, 2020 by crazfulla

[Madkill40]

15 hours ago, crazfulla said:

My main complaint about the increase in "spikeyness" of the terrain through the vehicle paths (in front of each base's main entrance) is that this favours Nod... Artys and Stanks can fire over the crest of a rise in the terrain but GDI units generally cannot. Well, with the exception of MRLS if they curve their rockets. Also it restricts movement of larger GDI units like the Mammoth and Titan. Pretty sure I have yet to see GDI win that map since it was last updated.

This coming from a Nod player.

I've noticed the floodlights out of place along with the hologlobe in the HoN, I'll modify the Nod main entrance to favour GDI, The main base entrances could do with being moved forward in all honesty.