MRLS curving

[ex_member]

Are there any plans to change the MRLS curving ? 

It is a nice feature, but at the same time, it is questionable as it eliminates completely some rules defined either by map design or game balance.

On Under, MRLS are able to shoot Obelisk by standing at the tib field exactly where the inf path leads into the central cave and the crate appears.
So, this MRLS is completely hidden and curve directly into the base.

Today, on Field, MRLS has been curving missiles into OB, the turret near tunnel entry, and even into REF door ???
***Unfortuantely, taking screenshots on Field did not work, so I have only the one from Under.

I am sure there are plenty of examples like these.

 

 

[NodSaibot]

You are correct, it does need some change. There is discussion about it currently happening this minute in Totem Arts Discord, something should change, takes some time and discussion to figure out what is best.

[Mystic~]

Meanwhile: 

 

[roweboat]

If you can curve a ball you can curve a rocket?

 

Actually those ball curves are nothing compared to what an MRLS can currently do XD

[DenWellingston]

Personally, MRLS does not infuriate me. But artillery ... Wherever you go, close or far, to destroy its difficult task. Especially when there are a lot of them.

[Mystic~]

I have to admit this trend of curving MRLS rockets looks really cool, I still have no idea how people do it, and I agree it's quite annoying... it looks almost like dumb firing into the wind, a nice tactic perhaps, the artillery have a natural arc fire also which also makes them quite deadly. It's not exactly the same as base to base firing, artillery shells could be fired over rocks and land on buildings traditionally on maps like X Mountain and probably a number of others. Both Nod and GDI are guilty of entrance splashing on Field, it's just that GDI can now do a better job at blind targeting a building from the field. If Nod could control the power and range of their shots, maybe with a low-power secondary fire option, they could achieve something a little similar to this by having their shells fall shorter and at steeper angles, raining down.

The football example, it's just like the game, shooting round something in order to score and win. Wait till you watch the artillery lobs.
 

 

[Madkill40]

Tip for tackling MRLS/Arty: Charge them and swerve. 

MRLS' having a rocket curve advantage is so handy for GDI that it makes the MRLS a useful vehicle again and it only infuriates Nod players who camp behind corners.

So the Nod Obelisk can be hit by the MRLS on Under/Field, that's not an easy curve to make and IF it isn't possible to get to the MRLS to destroy the bugger then there's clearly more than just an MRLS to worry about at that point in time. 

The same way an MRLS can curve rockets to kill reps the Arty can arch shells to kill reps too. 

[ex_member]

I think also that curving is a nice feature, but it requires a tweak.

Perhaps shorten the range when the missiles are curved ?
That way it would not be able to reach certain points in the base, e.g. hitting refinery on Field,  but still be able to curve behind the corners.

[TomUjain]

It does require some looking into (which is been done already by the sound of it) however, at the same time I do hope the devs don't pull out the nerf gun and nerf the MRLS into oblivion.

Artys are still (as they have always been) the bread and butter for Nod, while for GDI MRLs were quickly replaced with meds / mammys / APCs after the warm up section. The curved rocket has given the MRLS a practical purpose on the battle field.

Perhaps reducing the amount of rockets when the turrent is 'locked' would be a way around this issue?

Edited November 17, 2019 by TomUjain

[NodSaibot]

Our first attempt at balancing it was recuding MRLS rocket lifetime by 2 seconds if it was locked. This was removed in favour of reducing the accelrate based on lock. This results in slower turns, and thus has the same effect as reducing the rocket lifetime. I'm still not sure what we can do to help the issue, but we have discussed methods to try and make the missiles act more like the OG ren MRLS missiles.

[Madkill40]

Whatever allows a rocket to do a sudden U-turn just after a corner may want to be ironed out as that is a debatable oddity, which may actually have a higher chance if the turn-rate is slowed down depending on how a player attempts to curve a rocket. 

MRLS curve isn't exactly game-breaking and Nod players just need to not think they can out-repair every little thing instead of destroying the cause of attack -

FOR A FACTION WITH STEALTH BLACK HANDS MAYBE YALL SHOULD TIMED C4 THE MRLS INSTEAD OF DOING F'ALL and in-addition, whine less about GDI having its arty-counterpart equal to the arty itself. 

And I frikkin' love playing as Nod, its not even particularly to curve that rocket to where you want it to go either and if you see an MRLS curving rockets there's only a small area they can cover consistently. 

Thanks to rocket curving I can slay enemy repairs with an MRLS just as easily as I already could with an Arty. [

[ex_member]

10 hours ago, Madkill40 said:

MRLS curve isn't exactly game-breaking and Nod players just need to not think they can out-repair every little thing instead of destroying the cause of attack

Actually it is, because it breaks certain map designs. It should not be able to hit certain areas, simple as that.
 

10 hours ago, Madkill40 said:

FOR A FACTION WITH STEALTH BLACK HANDS MAYBE YALL SHOULD TIMED C4 THE MRLS INSTEAD OF DOING F'ALL and in-addition, whine less about GDI having its arty-counterpart equal to the arty itself. 

Comparing Arty and MRLS is simply wrong, as they cannot be compared like this. These are 2 different units.
 

10 hours ago, Madkill40 said:

Thanks to rocket curving I can slay enemy repairs with an MRLS just as easily as I already could with an Arty.

Looking at this in an isolated way, e.g. considering only the ability to shoot repairs and ignoring anything else is misleading. 

 

So bottom line, curving is an interesting feature and made MRLS more effective. Nevertheless, it requires some tweak to respect certain design rules.
 

[Madkill40]

16 hours ago, ex_member said:

Comparing Arty and MRLS is simply wrong, as they cannot be compared like this. These are 2 different units.

They can and shouod be compared by way of effectiveness, the arty is still more effective in a head-on fight with other vehicles unlike the MRLS which is better as anti-infantry unless it is ignored by other vehicles.

Slowing the rocket curve hinders its close range ability but I can already see the abrupt U-turn symptom becoming more frequent if its rocket curve is reduced. 

Ideally and instead of reducing the turn-rate (or as well depending on reduction) if the MRLS hasn't locked-on to a target the rocket shouldn't follow the cursor directly and should, after some travel time, deviate off its intended course in a random direction, if it goes in a random direction towards the floor or a static mesh it has a lifespan of 2-3 seconds before it explodes anyway if no contact is made 

This should, in-theory, result in more misses unless the Nod team is densely packed together which would result in an expected blazing doom

[crazfulla]

I feel the MRLS' advantage is at range. Close up it will fail against an arty, an sbh, even a flame trooper unless you can splash damage it or run it over somehow. Up close Artys have a better chance against most thing they will encounter.

Also worth noting, Arty can lob shots over the top of cover using "gravity" to curve the trajectory. Do we need to change this also?

[Handepsilon]

I dunno, I kinda like those. I do understand if it feels OP tho

[DaKuja]

Blaming MRLS?! Witchery!

 

Short statement from the point of view of a MRLS recruit.

That the missiles can fly around curves as seen above is outrageous, no question. 

But if you start to change the properties of the missiles, it might have a positive effect on the problem. BUT it also affects the "normal" situations where, in my opinion, I already have my concerns. 

The artillery of Nod can put the tanks under pressure in areas where the terrain has a drop in altitude, e.g. Under GDI Base Entrance, where I can already put the tanks under pressure without seeing an enemy and cause very gloomy hours for the GDI due to the area damage. 
Especially in the artillery the problem with the incorrectly displayed projectile is devastating for other clients. 

MRLS is strong on long range, but Nod can counter with very agile and fast light tanks, as well as snipers, rocket soldiers and SBHs. 

Depending on the situation or position, a MRLS does not have a Chance 1v1 against any enemy vehicle, as the missiles are not so maneuverable and can easily be blocked or dodged by obstacles.

The last match on the field you're talking about was probably me. I was even able to hit the refinery as well the Air Strip.

I think the feature is great, no question. But I wouldn't be sad if it disappeared again. Because to bend the already difficult balance further or to change maps is in the long run no solution and of the expenditure in my opinion much too large. 

Edited December 11, 2019 by DaKuja

[Rups]

I agree with Dakuja on the note that artillery also has specific niche areas where its curvature really lets it shoot at things without exposing itself much, much like the curved missiles of the MRLS do. Also, the artillery generally performs better than the MRLS, especially at recruit ranks (not to mention MRLS having serious issues in areas with a low ceiling, like the tunnel on snow).

For the above reasons, I'd quite like to see MRLS keep its curving ability to give it its own unique ability.

Nonetheless, it's obvious that curving missiles can create some issues on specific maps. In my opinion, the most problematic aspect is hitting buildings from around a corner, as shown on that screenshot. While it would be a drastic and partially unrealistic solution, how about we vastly reduce (or even completely remove) the damage curved rockets deal to buildings? I feel that that would at least prevent the worst of unintended use of the MRLS curvature.

Removing it altogether would be..... shit, quite frankly.

[yosh56]

Rockets/missiles just need a rewrite in general. They shouldn't be able to stop mid air and make 180 degree angles

[JoeBrogan7]

6 hours ago, Rups said:

I agree with Dakuja on the note that artillery also has specific niche areas where its curvature really lets it shoot at things without exposing itself much, much like the curved missiles of the MRLS do.

The gravity arc of arties is both a pro and a con, though. There are many instances/maps where an arty is trying to hit a target at short/medium range with a slight difference in elevation....and it can't hit it. Either the shell hits the ground right in front, or it completely sails right over the target and hits the ground 100 yards away. Contrast that to MRLS curving which can essentially be turned on or off by the player.

6 hours ago, Rups said:

While it would be a drastic and partially unrealistic solution, how about we vastly reduce (or even completely remove) the damage curved rockets deal to buildings?

That may help, but personally I feel the the worst aspect of MRLS curving is not hitting buildings, it's hitting the area at the front of the base where techs/ravs/LCGs are typically gathered while trying to push out. On Under on Saturday, I was utterly ineffective with my Rav because there were 2 or 3 MRLS curving their rockets just in front of the Obelisk. By the time I got to the front to peak out and shoot a tank, my armor was almost completely gone already. I feel like this is a game-breaking aspect of MRLS curving because it can entirely neutralize Nod's infantry support during sieges. It's almost like having a permanent enemy air strike at the front of your base.

Edited January 20, 2020 by JoeBrogan7