Tank Balance Discussion

[boxes]

Discuss, main issues pointed out during the pugs is a Mammoth tank nerf (damage) and a light tank buff (damage). Other concerns include MRLS being too strong vs inf and flame tanks being useless in open maps. So far in the past month and a half, GDI has won five weeks in a row with balanced teams.

Personally, I believe slowing down med/mammoth tank projectiles will allow light tanks (and the other Nod vehicles but to a lesser extent) to more effectively dodge. Their speed buff applied in a previous patch didn't do much when it comes to avoiding tank shells, reason being at medium ranges, it is too easy to predict tank movement and the speed of the tank projectile is too fast to properly react in time. GDI's main disadvantage is the size of the tanks, but that doesn't factor in as much as it should due to their damage consistency constantly suppressing Nod tanks. 

[Redarmy]

Make Mammoths 1750.

 

With veterancy, Flamer MS and turn speed should increase more, that way no matter the map, flamers can still end up being effective later on at least to counter mammoths better.

[Jarzey]

My two cents, assuming that there were no patches changing the values in the meantime:

Raise Light Tank base damage to 70. (Med still remains 80)

Reduce Mammy cannons base damage to 70 (will still do more damage than Med/Light because of its multipliers).

Reduce MRLS base damage to 70 (just to round up instead of 78) and its area of effect by tp 400 (assuming that tanks have 300 base area of effect, but I am not certain on this one). Also, a -10% damage versus infantry for both MRLS and Arty could be considered.

Increase Flame Tank's health to 900 (1000/1100/1200 for veteran/elite/heroic) or even 1000 (1100/1200/1300 for veteran/elite/heroic). They are supposed to be heavily armored since they engage the opposition at basically melee range. A little bit of health will help keeping them alive for a few more seconds.

If dodging shells is a concern,  all tank shells could be slowed down to 6000 or 7000 (from 7625).

Not sure if I made a mistake when transcribing the values , but the Tick Tank's shell speed (12000) should be put on par with all other tank shells' speed.

[Billybez]

Mammoth

Would agree that mammoth tanks are slightly to strong in their current state especially at Elite and above its just to player efficient.

Slowing down projectile speeds would be a good start. Lowering damage slightly so that it cannot just 2 shot a stank / light with its main cannon meaning it would have to land some rockets as well.

Some of the problems of the mammoth i would say comes from the VP system as it currently stands. The mammoths ability to regen its health and to use its cannons to secure kills on tanks leads to a situation where the mammoth ends up at a high veteran rank.

VP System 

As a side note some alterations to the VP system would help some of the problems of the games balance. VP is a system to ensure that one team gets stronger and games do not become a stalemate and drawn out. The VP system achieves this but should not favor so heavily on the individual player, getting the last hit for example.

Currently causing the finishing blow to a tank grants a massive amount of VP compared to the VP gained from damaging the tank. The same goes for killing the harvester VP gained from killing this objective should be for the team as a whole not for and not for individual player.

There are so many sources of VP which players can greed on to become higher Veteran ranks While their team is left behind.

The gap for individual player vs team is just to big at the moment. Adding Team VP to capturing and holding silo / comms center  and removing lowering VP gained from Last hitting.

Light Tanks

Lights tanks need a purpose to them at the moment they have no good use.  To fill a purpose the Light tank needs to have its weaknesses (less Armour/hit points and firepower compared to the medium tank) But its strengths which should be its mobility and price.

As it stands the damage of the light tank is just to weak to make an impact. Adding some base damage would help in this regard. The light tank should be able to duel a medium tank in my opinion if the light tank correctly uses its mobility/terrain. Giving the light tank some more damage would allow it also so become a counter to mammoth and medium tanks as group/swarm.

Maybe lower the building multiplier to keep the light tank inline with current building damage to stop it from becoming to strong.

Slowing down projectile speeds would be a good start for NOD as whole allowing them to their mobility.

Flame Tank

The Flame tank is in a good spot right now wouldn't say it needs any changes if the mammoth was Nerfed slighty.

Repair Tool

One other small thing which would be nice to see changes would be the repair tool. Giving it a limited clip amount or making it only heal Armour would be a good change in my opinion. The repair tool should be for small repairs and removing mines. Larger repairs you should seek a technician or go back to base to refill. 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2017 by Billybez

[Madkill40]

Slow down shells, tortoise too cheetah.

[Xeon Wraith]

On Light tanks:

(I'm assuming Light tanks are meant used as a 'bullet-sponge' on open maps, in a similar manner to a flame tank would in smaller maps.)

The fundamental issue with light tanks I can see is that they're simply not competitive DPS wise verse enemy field repairs. In a typical composition of arties/lights, most of skilled players would simply ignore the light tanks and focus on the arties. Increasing the defensive capabilities of the light tank doesn't make them more dangerous - on the contrary this just incentivises players to kill weaker vehicles more. In the event where light tanks where are actually flanking and are posing a threat to field repairs, they're usually extremely close, rendering slower projectile speeds meaningless.

Also keep in mind reduced projectile speeds does also buff the rest of Nods' tank lineup. Considering the relatively high amount of cover on most maps, you could probably dodge a similar amount of shots with other vehicles as you may do with a light tank.

It doesn't strictly have to be a DPS buff, light tanks simply need to be more threatening. Increasing projectile speeds or increasing splash radius for anti-repairs might also work.

Side note: For players interested in getting better at dodging enemy shots, it's considerably easier to dodge based on timing rather reaction. Most players tend to mindlessly hold down the fire button which makes dodging their shots while in cover rather trivial. Don't use this on me please.

On Mammoth tanks:

They're absurdly player efficient. A single mammoth with field repairs can apply pressure on significantly more players on Nod's side than spent with the mammoth. Add in the fact both teams have equal vehicle limits, it eventually gets to a point where Nod just doesn't have the vehicle or player numbers to deal with everything. Not too sure how to deal with this. Perhaps increasing the vehicle supply cost to 2 for a mammoth tank? Might also be worth looking into decreasing veterancy advantages so they don't snowball as hard with their field control.

[Axesor]

So I've just came out with an idea: What if everytime the tank gets hit with an explosives, fire and laser, it gets a negative buff for 2s that decreases incoming healing by 50% or even more%? Every hit resets the timer. This way the healing won't be so effective and offense will be much more rewarded. Gdi is clearly more capable in field battles, so what if Nod would balance this with its firepower?

Engis in current state are able to easily outheal the damage from light tank. This would buff LT, becouse in current state its difficult to heal anyway due to its small size and need to be mobile while fighting, but it also nerfs mammy, becouse its like big slow moving base relying on engis heals that buffs it realy much. Nods mobility and firepower would be more effective and mammy would be simply outplayed by that.

Just an idea for alternative solution.

Or maybe Iam just crazy now and need to go sleep.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Axesor

[Redarmy]

2 hours ago, Xeon Wraith said:

Perhaps increasing the vehicle supply cost to 2 for a mammoth tank?

Holy shit I think that is a great idea.

[Madkill40]

Meds should cost 750 credits.

Arty's and MRLS should cost 500.

APCs should cost 450.

[Henk]

Flametank needs faster sprint/boost with the trade off that it can't fire while sprinting.

[Guest Gliven]

19 hours ago, Xeon Wraith said:

Perhaps increasing the vehicle supply cost to 2 for a mammoth tank?

I actually really, REALLY like this idea. It prevents late game mammy spam, which is a game ender.

I have ideas on possible buffs to balance light tanks. 
Balance option A

1. Decrease their starting health at veteran from 600 to 580. But exaggerate the bonuses when ranking up

600 (Recruit)    580

675 (Veteran)   675

750 (Elite)         800

825 (Heroic)     900

2. Increase speed and maneuverability, give them a better chance to survive.

Balance option B

Decrease cost to 500. I realize i am contradicting myself when i say this. I am against changing the cost of vehicles as i have stated in another thread about changing the timing of the game. (getting access to vehicles sooner or later based on cost)

Balance option C

1. Increase speed slightly and let them turn more easily while sprinting. Run circles around meds and mrls. Running over enemy repairs would be less risky, and a more viable strategy. Scary light tank rush anyone?

2. Give them a slight buff to flak armour. From 0.5 to 0.6-0.75. give them a slightly easier way to deal with enemy repairs and anti tank infantry.

The best way to deal with gdi's heavy armour, is to kill repairs. Which isnt always easy when hotwires have large vehicles to hide behind.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Gliven

[Guest Gliven]

Another completely radical idea is to change the behaviour of shells entirely. As it stands the only vehicle that gets a buff when shooting armour is the mammy at 1.3 damage multiplier to both light and heavy armour. The rest get a negative modifier.

High explosive vs Armour piercing

HE is good against light armour, infantry and buildings. Weak against heavy armour

AP is good against heavy armour and light armour. Weak against infantry and structures.

Vehicles with HE would include;

Artillery

MRLS

Mammoth tank tusk missiles

Vehicles with AP would include;

Light tank

Medium Tank

Mammoth tank

I feel like flame tanks and stealth tanks should have neutral damage modifiers. Giving stanks HE would make them too overpowered when doing sneak attacks against buildings, and making them useless in the field against tanks.

Gdi would have an easier time with a prolonged siege to a base, but have a hard time doing damage. A base army of Medium tanks with 1 or 2 Mammoth tanks, with support from MRLS and infantry is a must. 
Nod would have a harder time with a prolonged siege, but have an easier time doing actual damage. A base army of Artillery, with a support of Lights, flames and infantry are a must.

This would completely change the game. Something that i dont think could really work, but an interesting idea none the less. It would take a very long time to balance it out.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Gliven

[Axesor]

@Gliven Decreasing LT cost to 500c actualy sounds reasonable. LT is not much better than Arty that costs 450c. Both Arty and LT are better in different situations.

• LT is more mobile, tankier, but difficult to heal, and has really low damage. Its damage is really easy to outheal.
• Arty is easier to heal, has high damage, but has lower health, and not so mobile.

Toughtness is not that valuable like DPS that is really crutial when it comes to what side the match is evolving. Thats why Arty is so popular in Nod, also becouse Arty is useful in more situations. LT has many downsides when compared to Arty.

Decreasing LTs cost would put LT into very interestion possition in the game. I would even suggest decreasing its cost to 450c.

I think this suggestion is worth of considering.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Axesor

[--==00G==--]

Maybe we could look at it this way:

• reduce all vehicles AOE radius and damage (thus making it harder for tanks to deal with infantry)
• increase the armor of flame tanks (give them a chance to make it across map)
• lower the rate of fire on: meds, lights, artys, and MRLS  BUT increase the damage (so their dps remains roughly the same) of each shot/projectile. (make each count for more rather then #startfire-afk)
• Mammy's are hard IMO, but perhaps we could make the main guns shoot at more of an offset then they currently do (ie less bursty more sustain, but the same dps). Hopefully that makes sense. 
• NERF hottie and tech repair rates on vehicles... A little, not alot. Totally realize i may get some hate for this, but they repair vehicles SOOO fast. Leave building repair the same. 

IMO the last one may be the real answer here. Tech and hottie OP!

Edited October 5, 2017 by Psypher

[Madkill40]

Light Tanks are nice cannon fodder, good to distract the enemy from firing at the arty's doing a majority of the damage. 

That's about it. I like Gliven's suggestion (even if it is a bit of an overhaul)

[Sn4ke]

Decreasing LT's purchase price to 500 would be ridiculous. even without initial harvy drop, most Nod teams would be able to LT-rush GDI with Techies / LCG on board, while GDI has 0 tanks (meds) on the field.

A single LT might not scare anyone. But a bunch of them... can wreck any GDI vehicle once it spawns inside WF bay (at least on any non-defence map ).

My personal favourite options to tweak the vehicle balance between GDI & Nod (not all of them combined but at least one of the following):

• variation of the current tank shell speed mechanic (at least certain tank shells should have a different speed value)
• change of either LT's multi / base damage / RoF / maneuverability
• a Mammoth tank Nerf of any kind, esp. focusing on Elite & Heroic Veterancy rank. Heroic Mammoth tanks have an absurd max. range (120mm Cannons)
• nerf MRLS splash radius (vs. infantry), equal the splash damage range with the Arty and nerf both.

@CampinJeffs suggestion to nerf the tank projectile speed sounds reasonable, but I'm afraid the shifts to gameplay will be huge. Balance tests are mandatory for that option. Guess Jeff will do that himself if the devs decide to give it a try.

@Xeon Wraiths suggestion to double the Mammoth tanks vehicle supply point cost, uuhhhhm, not sure yet. It sounds perfect, but starting to change the weight of unit points will trigger counter discussions as: limit the max. amount of SBH / team [or: any specific unit / team].

A flat increase of Mammoth tanks purchase price is also no solution for this matter, as GDI is in need of early Mammoth tanks on certain maps (due to design). A price based on veterany rank sounds more reasonable to me (due to higher DPS & hit points) but on the other hand this solution will end up in mass donations to Recruit players, as they only have to play the base price .

If any Nod vehicle gets buffed, there is (imho) no reason to nerf the GDI medium tank. A good LT (with a good map [cover possibilites] and maybe a little help of any other Nod unit) can easily 1on1 a med (unless the med tanker overskills the LT tanker but we're not talking about players skill here...)

If I remember correctly, @yosh56 mentioned after the PUG that he thinks a buff to Flame Tanks would be the best solution. Well... the flame tank is supposed to be a close combat anti-anything unit. The problem here is not that the flamer is too weak, but more likely: the map design (if GDI has range advantage or Nod doesn't have good cover possibilities, no gorge to trap the GDI units) or lack of drivers skill / awareness. Most flame tankers love to suicide their tank for nothing (but VP for the enemy..). A flame tank is already super powerful, it's lack of range must be balanced through teamwork (support units: Technicians & any EMP unit].

Regards,

Sn4ke

Edited October 5, 2017 by DarkSn4ke

[Guest Gliven]

12 minutes ago, DarkSn4ke said:

Decreasing LT's purchase price to 500 would be ridiculous. even without initial harvy drop, most Nod teams would be able to LT-rush GDI with Techies / LCG on board, while GDI has 0 tanks (meds) on the field.

This is the reason why i generally don't like changing the price of things. The more i look at it, the more i don't think it would be a good change as well. I should really start driving light tanks more often, its harder for me to make opinions when i barely ever drive one.

[voltex]

On Med and Mammoth tanks.

I agree with lowing the med/mammoth projectile speed but also I think the mammoth heavy/light amour multiplier should be lowered, it has the same 120mm cannon as the med tank so shouldn't do that much more damage maybe around 1.1 but realistically I think GDI is find on damage but is a start. The only other thing I would change is increasing the amount of vp Nod gets from the mammoth or even med both in/outside their base so GDI is punished more for being careless which in turn helps Nod.

On Light Tanks

Maybe increase its base damage to 65-70, not much you can do with it without simply turning it into another med tank. A few things to consider are the fact that lights have always only been best when used in large numbers which is why their cheaper but in a game were the vehicle limits for both teams are the same and are produced at the same rate lights lose a lot of their advantage the only other one being their speed but that can be negated by player skill which can make them obsolete which is how I've felt about them for quite a while.

One other thing that can be changed other than simply increasing damage is the cost, being able to get them to the field quicker and sustain them for longer could make a difference perhaps lowering the cost to 550 and lowing the amount of vp gained from destroying them could help but maybe leave this as a last resort.

On Flame Tanks

I think flame tanks are in a good spot right now, the main downsides being certain maps which is the maps fault not the vehicles and changing them to fit a few maps could break them on others.

A few things I would change though are the damage to infantry and buildings which I always felt was lacking as that's the main purpose of the flame tank is to wreak havoc to inf and buildings. Considering flame tanks only excel at close range and take up a slot that could be used for a ranged light/arty I think this is a viable trade off.

On Stealth Tanks.

I don't think the stealth tank has been brought up yet but its something that I really only see in attacks on the base itself and not in the battlefield were it can be really useful especially on larger maps and could make up for the lowered effectiveness of the flame tank.

I think the damage is fine but the projectile range could be increased to give it more leeway against meds and orcas also increasing movement speed and decreasing the range it can be detected could help it get into position.

 

In conclusion I think both sides are in a good place only needing slight improvements and we shouldn't be discussing drastically changing the game or buffing the shit out of one thing and nerfing the shit out of another, the little things can make a huge difference.

A lot of this disparity in score I think is 1. Some maps still not being balanced and favoring one side (Nodcano prime example.) 2. The teams themselves which is a different discussion entirely.

[Madkill40]

Double the mammoth vehicle supply cost to 2, slow down the projectile speed of shells (Except LTs), give Flame Tanks a better sprint but disable their attack whilst sprinting, make meds 750c and the Arty/MRLS 500c.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Madkill40

[Sn4ke]

12 hours ago, voltex said:

I don't think the stealth tank has been brought up yet but its something that I really only see in attacks on the base itself and not in the battlefield were it can be really useful especially on larger maps and could make up for the lowered effectiveness of the flame tank.

depends on the map vehicle area terrain & players vet rank. Elite stank can 1on1 any GDI tank (given the driver know how to make use of the terrain & alt fire or simply dodges the enemy shells)

Even as "Recruit" the stank is a good AT vehicles, but with only 400 HP it's usually too risky (900 $ ).

The max. of stankz is rather balanced due to the fact that it's a stealth tank and not a stealth artillery there are so many maps where you can outside c4 a building, cloak & hide and start shooting from somewhere else out of cover (2x techies outside c4 on a 100% building -> guaranteed armor break [unless hotties are AFK repairing the MCT] just dont forget to blow your remotes & start shooting at ~15-10 seconds left.)

[Guest Gliven]

I actually like using the stank in the field. It is a great ambush vehicle to finish off already damaged tanks. I catch med tanks off guard a lot. Usually you can get 2 or 3 volleys into a med before they even realize you are shooting at them.

[Sn4ke]

3 minutes ago, Gliven said:

Usually you can get 2 or 3 volleys into a med before they even realize you are shooting at them.

yeah forgot to mention this. as I'm med-tanking myself quite often stankz are a real threat at any vet level if they chose the right moment / spot to attack from. If the med tanker is in 1st person, and focusing his concentration on a certain unit, he might easily miss that he's getting hit from the other side. also - field repair has to be some awareness... if they see a stank (few meters away) dont run... just hit E and enjoy the safety of a medium tank 2nd seat

[Guest Gliven]

Just now, DarkSn4ke said:

just hit E and enjoy the safety of a medium tank 2nd seat

Sometimes that is all it takes for a med to go down too. If you are in a med tank engaging an arty or two, and then all of a sudden your hotwire jumps into the passenger seat. You will go down pretty quick if you dont pull back immediatly, if you even can with that stank behind you.

[Axesor]

ACTUALLY..! Different supply points for different tanks sounds as pretty interesting, and reasonable suggestion. Espetialy when player resources are limited.

Nod tanks are generaly weaker than GDI ones. Lets have an example:

 

30 tank points avaiable for both teams

• 1T-Buggy, Humvee: cost 1 supply points
• 2T-MRLS / Arty / APC / Light tank: 2 points
• 3T-Med. Tank / Stealth tank / Flame tank / Apache / Orca: 3 points
• 4T-Mammy: 4 points

In another numbers, it would mean:

• 30x 1T vehicles
• 15x 2T vehicles
• 10x 3T vehicles
• 7x 4T vehicles

Yet in another numbers:

• 15x LT vs 10x med tank, or vs 7 mammys (9000c vs 8000c or vs 10500c)
• 30x buggy vs 7x mammy (10500c vs 10500c)
• 10x Ftank vs 7x mammy (8000c vs 10500c)

Before you start to oppose, remember that cost of all the vehicles would stay same!

And now tell me, how is it not fair? I think it would be great! It would solve all the problems mentioned above, in the comments.

I dont know about you, but I find it mildly annoying when players buy humvee/buggy, becouse it consumes important supply points that could be used in better way.. BUT if Humvee/buggy cost 1 points, they would be able to counter MRLS/Arty, becouse its cost and supply cost would balance the fight, and it would be fair.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2017 by Axesor

[Madkill40]

Even at a supply limit of 12.

3 mammoth tanks Vs 6 Light Tanks, seems reasonable.

But 4 Meds Vs 2 Light Tanks and 4 Artys doesn't seem so reasonable bearing in mind the amount of players stuck to infantry only.

Even at 21 Vehicle points, 7 meds. Vs 5 LTs and 5 Artys. (+1 Buggy)

But then there could be 21 Buggys. Do we limit buggys to 10 maximum allowed?

3 Tiers is enough.

• 1T-Buggy, Humvee -MRLS / Arty / APC / Light tank: 1 point
• 2T-Med. Tank / Stealth tank / Flame tank / Apache / Orca: 2 points
• 3T-Mammy: 3 points

??

[Axesor]

@Madkill40 As you mentioned, there will be sum players stuck with infantry.

4 meds = 4 players = 8 points VS 2 LT+4Arty = 6 players = 8 points. There will be 2 free infantry for GDI who could buy gunner for example (if we keep it in offence way), that is literaly Arty killer.

Even your second point:

Spoiler

Even at 21 Vehicle points, 7 meds. Vs 5 LTs and 5 Artys. (+1 Buggy)

...the difference of 3 vehicles is not that big, also bearing in mind that (when I count) there would be 4 free infantry on GDI side.

 

I appreciate your support, but there is a major logic gap in 3 Tiers. It wouldnt just mean 21 buggys, that Iam literaly ok with btw, but there would be  also space for 21 Artys/MRLSs/LT/APCs, that is not acceptaple.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Axesor

[swaffelen]

I think light tank should be made 650 credits with 650 HP, faster projectile speed, and wider splash damage to be more effective against infantry. Helps counter repairs on sieging meds and mammoths a bit  better. Currently the light tank can be taken down by gunners or Sydney quite easily compared to medium tank vs rave or lcg. 

The cost of 650 also reduces the likelihood of an early light tank rush on under or on field. 

As for the mammoth, I know it's against the spirit of what the mammoth was supposed to be, but I think a 1200 credit mammoth with only 1000 HP and great reduced splash damage radius turns the mammy into more of an anti-tank, anti-apache, and anti-building vehicle but makes it easier to counter with lcgs and raveshaws. Make the tusk missiles stronger against aircraft to reduce vulnerability against Apaches on lakeside perhaps. 

For flame tank, maybe increase the range by a bit but reduce turret turning speed to compensate and allow infantry and tanks to come close and c4 it? Flame tanks should scare the crap out of meds and mammoths- I know they scared me in the original renegade. 

Stealth tank and medium tank are fine as-is. Maybe make the APCs, arts, and mlrs all 475 credits to make APC rushes less risky for cash and make losing art or mlr more painful. Buggy and Humvee are okay as-is, but mostly useless unless a skilled player buys one. 

Edited October 7, 2017 by swaffelen

[voltex]

@Madkill40  @Axesor This is Command and Conquer not Starcraft.

[Axesor]

@voltex Excuse you?? Such point system is used in many games for a reason. I think its reasonable to apply this for vehicles in RenX so Nod could counter strong GDI vehicles if its needed wits its quantity.. with the cost of less infantry ofc. But as LT is not much good for defence with engineers support, I think its acceptable cost for pure offensive play if needed.

This was very inappropriat of you. I could just ignore you for not coming with an argument.

 

Look, todays limit for vehicles is like 10. Means 10 meds or 10 mammy and 10 LTs, but also 10buggys. Its just annoying if somebody buys buggy. 

With suggested system, there would be still space for 10 meds, but only for 7 mammys and 1 humvee. I think its very acceptable cost of points for such a superior vehicle. And there would be also space for 15 LTs so they could counter GDI tanks with its numbers.

I was thinking.. 15 Artys seems a little bit too much so I would raise its points cost to 3, bcs while Nod can easily counter MRLSs, Arty is very annoying vehicle for GDI to counter. 10 artys and 10 meds sounds fair and it would keep todays balance.

Edited October 7, 2017 by Axesor

[Madkill40]

@Axesor

If the supply points are too high there will be an overload causing servers to lag due to too many vehicles.

1 for Hum/Bug + APC.

3 for Mammy and Stank.

2 for everything else.

@voltex *Dawn of War bitch.

[Guest Gliven]

8 hours ago, Axesor said:

Such point system is used in many games for a reason

For optimization. When there is 3000 units running around, games tend to slow down. The limit itself generally isn't for balance. The game designers work the balance around the limitation.

Same reason why a 40 player server for ren-x was enforced a while ago

Edited October 7, 2017 by Gliven

[Guest Gliven]

removed comment

 

Edited October 7, 2017 by Gliven

[scrin-124678]

yay just make tanks weaker, whats the point of buying tanks?

Trust me the beta 1/2 was the best. people wanted to buy tanks because they was somthing to rush enemys, and it was possible to kill infantery units easily with it.

 

Now you want to make tanks weaker so that people buy infanterys? and then cry when a sniper comes that only gives you headshots?

But ok thats why all of your maps are build so that people can win it with infantery rushes .. and when the map isnt like that you just place the obelisc/AGT so stupid that you think that enginner team that build the base was drunk. Trust me thats why only 1 server is full and not like in the beginning every third server.

 

And this is a complete waste of time here nobody is going to make it better, why trying to suggest something when a little group of people say what would be the best. Just like tiberian twilight people told EA what was annoying and they cutted it out, and then you wonder how a bad game like that can happen?

Trust me when a game makes no fun just leave it, dont waste your time to change somthing, when nothing will happen.

(To people that will comment my post i will just say try it i dont waste my times to read your explainings why was that good or why i dont like you, you can go to a place where no sun shines in.)

[Henk]

40 minutes ago, scrin-124678 said:

yay just make tanks weaker

This topic isn't about making tanks weaker vs infantry, it's about balancing mammoths vs Nod's tanks. Read before you rant, I can't even understand the last 2 parts of your post.

And as far as I know there aren't any maps that changed the placement of the Obelisk and AGT to make for easier infantry rushes except the range being changed on Goldrush? In fact Whiteout even had (small) base defenses added to defend against infantry rushes. (So did Tunnels but that one wasn't around during beta 1 & 2)

[Madkill40]

On 10/6/2017 at 10:06 PM, Madkill40 said:

3 Tiers is enough. *

• 1T-Buggy, Humvee / APC : 1 point
• 2T-Med. Tank / Light Tank / Flame tank / Apache / Orca / MRLS / Arty: 2 points
• 3T-Mammy / Stealth Tank : 3 points

Stealth Tanks are vicious if left unchecked but when 4 players do nothing with them they severely hinder the team. Lets enhance this effect some more.  

Edited October 20, 2017 by Madkill40