Repair infantry - make it history

[ex_member]

...

Edited September 22, 2018 by ex_member

[Sn4ke]

#remove_elite_regen

[limsup]

3 minutes ago, DarkSn4ke said:

#remove_elite_regen

Or even the heroic... With the new VP system Heroic Mammoth Tanks are an extreme pain, a pack of them nigh-indestructible 

[TK0104]

I always thought it didn't make any sence. How the hell is possible to restore the human health with a repair gun (especially during the 1st tiberium war)

But I'm glad it's possible

 

Edited August 18, 2017 by TK0104

[Sn4ke]

the Veterancy system supports teamplay, the self-regen ability supports solo players only*

*okay... it favours them, whatever. probably made my point clear.

Edited August 18, 2017 by DarkSn4ke

[RoundShades]

I still like my original fan-idea of:
- armor is consumed to reduce damage from it's specific-armortype source
- damage always hits some health, less for ineffective-damage source, more when armor is depleted or effective-damage source
- health cannot be repaired, but armor can.

It both increases, and hard-limits, an infantry's health. Eventually it runs out of health. However, it's armor is highly effective for as long as it's health lasts, if the infantry is repaired.

It also gives "elite and heroic health regen" a specific ability advantage that infantry cannot obtain otherwise.

NOTE: I hear the ORIGINAL C&C RENEGADE was going to have "armor game-mechanics" on infantry like that. It's in the tutorial, mentioned that armor reduces health-damage but damage always eats some health, however it's never like that in actual gameplay, likely because they just shoveled it out the door with bad netcode and simplified gameplay when the launch time came. Was still an amazing game despite it.

[Madkill40]

Including Yagi's idea about repair beams only repairing infantry armour and not their health points and I do like the idea of infantry not having their health-points restored *with the Engineer's and Hotwire/Technician's repair guns.

Infantry would likely know first-aid and as such maybe players should be able to purchase a First-Aid kit which can be purchased from the utilities tab in the PT menu, the items go in the same inventory slot as an Airstrike and Beacon etc.

Single-use First Aid Kit - 300 credits

x3 First Aid Kit - 750 credits

Regarding First Aid Kit;

• First Aid Kit and First Aid Case only restore health
• Does not restore armour
• Requires 2 seconds to activate & players must not move 
• A kit will only restore a maximum of 175 health points [Which is full health for some infantry units but not for all units]

And maybe...

Single-use First Aid Case - 1100 credits

Regarding First Aid case;

• Can heal infantry within a small radius
• Case will only restore a maximum of 150 health points (Or potentially up to 70% of their total health)
• Requires 5 seconds to activate and player with the case must not move
• Does not restore armour
• Does not heal the user
• User becomes more vulnerable to all attacks and takes double-damage during the 5 second activation
• Units recently affected by a First Aid Case cannot be affected by another case until 15 seconds have passed. 

First Aid Kit look: Reskin a sandbag to be white with a red cross, duplicate the mine placement animation and swap the mine out for the re-skinned sandbag. (For nod have a red bag with a white cross)

First Aid Case look: Reskin a briefcase in the same way, white case red cross (GDI) and red case white cross (Nod) and duplicate the mine placement animation and swap the mine for the brief case.

Regarding the animations, if it is possible to ask the RA:APB guys for some help with the anims and/or textures for the first-aid items that would be handy but anything could really just be a placeholder cos 'Beta'.

As for the sound either use or remake or edit the Red Alert medic heal sound effect. (Perhaps this sound should be heard by the other team as well when first aid kits/cases are used, provided someone on the enemy team is close enough)

Because it is important to monopolize healthcare, even in Ren-X.

Edited August 19, 2017 by Madkill40

[Axesor]

Dude, just why? I wonder why do you want to make survivability for infantry even worse. Compared to vehicles, they are hard to keep alive/heal, limited ammo, also they are 2nd class fighting unit on battleground. I just dont understand. #InfantryLivesMatter #MakeInfantryGreatAgain

Yes, playability is awfully higher and it feels great since snipers got spread while hipfire, but its not enough.

Edited August 19, 2017 by Axesor

[Kaiser739]

4 hours ago, Madkill40 said:

Including Yagi's idea about repair beams only repairing infantry armour and not their health points and I do like the idea of infantry not having their health-points restored *with the Engineer's and Hotwire/Technician's repair guns.

Infantry would likely know first-aid and as such maybe players should be able to purchase a First-Aid kit which can be purchased from the utilities tab in the PT menu, the items go in the same inventory slot as an Airstrike and Beacon etc.

Single-use First Aid Kit - 300 credits

x3 First Aid Kit - 750 credits

Regarding First Aid Kit;

• First Aid Kit and First Aid Case only restore health
• Does not restore armour
• Requires 2 seconds to activate & players must not move 
• A kit will only restore a maximum of 175 health points [Which is full health for some infantry units but not for all units]

And maybe...

Single-use First Aid Case - 1100 credits

Regarding First Aid case;

• Can heal infantry within a small radius
• Case will only restore a maximum of 150 health points (Or potentially up to 70% of their total health)
• Requires 5 seconds to activate and player with the case must not move
• Does not restore armour
• Does not heal the user
• User becomes more vulnerable to all attacks and takes double-damage during the 5 second activation
• Units recently affected by a First Aid Case cannot be affected by another case until 15 seconds have passed. 

First Aid Kit look: Reskin a sandbag to be white with a red cross, duplicate the mine placement animation and swap the mine out for the re-skinned sandbag. (For nod have a red bag with a white cross)

First Aid Case look: Reskin a briefcase in the same way, white case red cross (GDI) and red case white cross (Nod) and duplicate the mine placement animation and swap the mine for the brief case.

Regarding the animations, if it is possible to ask the RA:APB guys for some help with the anims and/or textures for the first-aid items that would be handy but anything could really just be a placeholder cos 'Beta'.

As for the sound either use or remake or edit the Red Alert medic heal sound effect. (Perhaps this sound should be heard by the other team as well when first aid kits/cases are used, provided someone on the enemy team is close enough)

Because it is important to monopolize healthcare, even in Ren-X.

Great idea! Afaik there were first aid kits in Beta 1 (I only started playing during Beta 3), so it would probably not be too difficult to implement them (again).

[vandal33]

I know Renegade X players hate teamwork but I prefer self regeneration out first. Vehicle and building repair are more annoying and never an instance could I recall something like "damn infantry healing needs to go or a nerf..." as opposed to "stupid vehicle repairs should not work with emp".

[ex_member]

...

Edited September 22, 2018 by ex_member

[Sn4ke]

4 hours ago, Axesor said:

Yes, playability is awfully higher and it feels great since snipers got spread while hipfire, but its not enough.

the sniper spread is a nerf for bad-medium aim-players only. skilled players can still headshot infantry without scope. they just had to get used to it

[Calvin]

7 hours ago, DarkSn4ke said:

the sniper spread is a nerf for bad-medium aim-players only. skilled players can still headshot infantry without scope. they just had to get used to it

Not true it's entirely luck based now until you jump really close which usually you're already dead depends what you're facing.  

[yosh56]

7 minutes ago, poi said:

Not true it's entirely luck based now until you jump really close which usually you're already dead depends what you're facing.  

Pretty much... Is actually easier to just ram your gun barrel down somebody's throat and pull the trigger 

[Axesor]

10 hours ago, dr.schrott said:

I play inf a lot (I am not a tanker), and I think it would make the game more challenging and even fair at the same time.

I wouldnt define it with the word "challenging", its more like "annoying pain in the ass". Dark Souls is challenging.. RenX is already challenging and fair by meaning that you are fighting againts another player.

 

10 hours ago, dr.schrott said:

On the other hand, engies and techies would focus on more important tasks, keep the vehicles and structures alive.

They already do focus on vehicles and structres since.. its more important task to do. (Thats my point btw.)

10 hours ago, dr.schrott said:

Imagine having a techie "trapped" in being a repair bitch for a single inf unit ? From my perspective, it is a waste.

Exactly my point, its waste since infantry is 2nd priority class fighting unit <_<

 

10 hours ago, dr.schrott said:

As said, infantry can collect armor and health, even heal after certain vet level, so what else do they need ?

Yeah.... No... Armor, Ammo, and Health packs mainly benefits the team of killed soldier unless you just catch some lone wolf sneaking into your base or kamikaze dude. 

This kill benefit drops would actualy work in the fast action arena type of games such as Team Fortress, or Overwatch.

...

I remember when repair tool was introduced to the game for the first time. Its low cost and healing affectivness highly promoted teamwork. I remember when 5-10 players were advancing forward and then healing on resting points. IT WAS BEAUTIFUL! Sadly, nerfed to the point when you dont even bother to heal somebody now, since it takes eternity AND 250c is not actually cheap thingie.. I cant imagine somebody buying health packs for mindblowing 750c for such a  nothingburger that makes you even more vulnerable. Screw purchaseable health packs, buff rep tools.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Axesor

[Madkill40]

4 hours ago, Axesor said:

Sadly, nerfed to the point when you dont even bother to heal somebody now, since it takes eternity AND 250c is not actually cheap thingie.. I cant imagine somebody buying health packs for mindblowing 750c for such a  nothingburger that makes you even more vulnerable. Screw purchaseable health packs, buff rep tools.

There is nothing to say the cost of health packs has to stay as suggested but health packs are ideal for units away from the base for extended periods of time with no tech or engi nearby or having to find one, remember the packs only restore health points and not armour.

Health packs could possibly integrate well into the game so long as the rep tools only repaired infantry armour so you can never truly get by just on your own but at least survive better on the field by yourself, at least against other infantry.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Madkill40

[Axesor]

@Madkill40  Nobody would spend 300c one-time-use fix of something that disapears so fast as health is.. When you lose your armor, u r basicaly dead already. If it needs to be implemented (and I would agree with implementing of such an item/ability in certain circumstances), then make it free for all with a cooldown of 1m or so. I just dont understand why everyhing needs to be so complex, and complicated like "fixes only armor/only health", while we have rep. tool, that could be used the same way and it would be much more simple.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Axesor

[Madkill40]

41 minutes ago, Axesor said:

@Madkill40  Nobody would spend 300c one-time-use fix of something that disapears so fast as health is.. When you lose your armor, u r basicaly dead already. If it needs to be implemented (and I would agree with implementing of such an item/ability in certain circumstances), then make it free for all with a cooldown of 1m or so. I just dont understand why everyhing needs to be so complex, and complicated like "fixes only armor/only health", while we have rep. tool, that could be used the same way and it would be much more simple.

So creditz get spent of course.  But in all seriousness you make a good point and that does make sense practically what with interchangeable sidearms already existing in the game, if the grenade could be swapped with medkits at a players leisure that could be quite useful.

I still think the area-of-effect heal as a purchasable item would be a good addition to the 'Items' purchases, where the Beacons and Airstrikes go in which case: 

***Regarding First Aid Case; 

• Can heal all infantry within a small radius
• Case will only restore a maximum of 175 health points and 100 Armour
• Units recently affected by a First Aid Case cannot be affected by another case until 15 seconds have passed. 
• Costs 600 credits.
• Requires 3 seconds to activate and player with the case must not move
• Plays Red Alert medic healing sound effect once activated

[TK0104]

7 hours ago, Madkill40 said:

I still think the area-of-effect heal as a purchasable item would be a good addition to the 'Items' purchases, where the Beacons and Airstrikes go in which case

Something like this you mean?

[vandal33]

I like infantry healing with the classic repair guns. If it's a problem because "infantry can collect armor, health and ammo and after a certain level of veterancy even heal themselves", then make these annoying solo-gameplay-encouraging features history instead.

[Madkill40]

6 hours ago, TK0104 said:

Something like this you mean?

Without 4 - 8. That is where it should go if it were to exist.

2 hours ago, vandal33 said:

I like infantry healing with the classic repair guns. If it's a problem because "infantry can collect armor, health and ammo and after a certain level of veterancy even heal themselves", then make these annoying solo-gameplay-encouraging features history instead.

It isn't a problem because of those things, repair guns with infantry reuses the same tactic used for repair guns with vehicles. 

At least with a first-aid kit for the players' self (maybe just a limit for health kits rather than a regen) and a area-of-effect case that has to be purchased (as most recently described) would at least employ similar tactics but encourages players to push forward and hold an area as a group or until back up arrives.

Players serving as a personal MedicBot for other players as infantry is a scenario which causes more issues in gameplay than it resolves. If you die as infantry against infantry you still have a chance to counter that infantry but the same cannot be said for when you lose a vehicle to another vehicle.

Such a change might need a substantial heads up for the active playerbase?