Player motivation / teamstacking

[Hohndo]

I read most of this except for the last few posts.

I kinda get where I was coming from with that repair vehicle idea I had a while back and how bad it was.

The goal we want here is to promote team play, even to casual players.

This whole thread has basically been about the good players I complained about before. Which honestly is what made me not want to play anymore. It is a issue but not one that's addressed correctly.

I think what needs to happen here is just make team play more rewarding, and solo play less rewarding.

I really don't want to single out snipers out in this but I think in general, they need to be less effective Rate of fire decrease? Lower effective range by capping range or less damage over didistances? If it's still hit scan, make it a projectile? I don't know. It just needs to be less worth while. 

Make vehicles more awesome. You'll get more people buying them just to use them. I think the best way to do this right now is make them all faster. You'll need to increase the rate of fire for Ob and AGT slightly just to keep up with the additional speed.

Or, give people in certain radius a damage and/or a damage reduction boost.

I don't want solo players punished but if the issue really is that no one is playing together, then it needs to be more worth while to play together and not to go solo. I'm not at all saying is isn't a already viable strategy, but if that's what we want more of, then that's what we need to push even more. Individuals need to be less significant.

Been a little bit since I last player but I'll be active for the next couple weeks.

This does not solve team stacking, that's just another issue altogether. 

[Sn4ke]

On 18.6.2017 at 4:01 AM, Madkill40 said:

Don't bother to kick or ban, that is OTT and will have dire consequences. If you mute them they will just leave of their own accord or they will buckle up and play.

with the already low overall population any ban on any server is bad for the whole community

On 18.6.2017 at 4:01 AM, Madkill40 said:

Players can VoteMute other players right? If not then they should be able to so servers can be more self-moderated.

I don't think it's possible for regular players.

7 hours ago, Hohndo said:

Lower effective range by capping range or less damage over didistances?

capping the range would be great. no more "sudden death" without displaying the reason of death correctly (death's head & name only at the moment - if killed from "infinite" distance)

Edited June 19, 2017 by DarkSn4ke

[Fffreak9999]

On 6/18/2017 at 3:01 AM, Madkill40 said:

Players can VoteMute other players right? If not then they should be able to so servers can be more self-moderated. Q-Commands are still possible for muted players so don't worry about them not being able to "help" should they actually keep playing. 

The command doesn't currently exist to have VoteMute.

I don't think is all that difficult to implement for the Devs since it's a function that exists in the client.

[Madkill40]

13 hours ago, Hohndo said:

I read most of this except for the last few posts.

>Brings up snipers like they are the issue.

If Snipers are killing off the enemy team for their team then they are teamworking good.

Their reward is their teams success via assaults.

Its not snipers. Server pop dies when players talkshit and babble nonsense coz they are bored.

What should happen now is:

No team-swapping until 5 or 10 minutes into the game and VoteMute for players to self-moderate servers.

Simple but effective. Lets not just recycle past discussions which shifts the blame around.

[yosh56]

Quote

Its not snipers. Server pop dies when players talkshit and babble nonsense coz they are bored.

Not really. After looking at it for about 2 months it literally is 100% in correlation with when the Xen/Deadbeat combo or jpoi stack joins that the server dies. It's actually half of what the 'stacked teams' argument comes from, especially considering the true CT-stack only ever happens after a PUG, or rarely on a Thursday night. 

The complaining out loud 'helps', but yes, totally reducing infantry combat to 'just forget it' does cause people to leave. 

[vandal33]

^knabis score = 666!

[Sn4ke]

On 19.6.2017 at 11:55 PM, yosh56 said:

Not really. After looking at it for about 2 months it literally is 100% in correlation with when the Xen/Deadbeat combo or jpoi stack joins that the server dies. It's actually half of what the 'stacked teams' argument comes from, especially considering the true CT-stack only ever happens after a PUG, or rarely on a Thursday night. 

jpoi vs xenbeat matches are fine. had a few over the last days

[Hohndo]

On 6/19/2017 at 7:25 AM, Madkill40 said:

>Brings up snipers like they are the issue.

Enough people have spoken up about it for it to be a issue. Otherwise it wouldn't keep coming back up. I mean if multiple people keep saying there's smoke somewhere, you're probably going to go looking for a fire rather than telling them they are looking at it wrong.

As I've stated before, a good sniper is capable of too much. I want to limit that capability.

Another way this could be done is reducing reducing clip size by 1 or 2 and reducing overall carried ammo which would force more reapplies at base. I think the base/free sniper is okay where it's at currently but I didnt ever see many people using it before.

But, as I said I want more of a emphasis on vehicles than infantry. Make vehicles better on their own. That's where my focus is going to be going forward is getting more pepole in vehicles.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Hohndo

[Xeon Wraith]

Kinda off-topic-ish but whatever.

Y'know, normally one would think smoke grenades would be a pretty standard way of countering precision gunfire. Not too sure why smoke grenades are so terrible at doing at in Ren X. The only time you see them used is usually in a dumb officer rush of some sort, which is kinda weird in itself (lol shitty smoke > cloaking tech apparently).

Buffing them might be nice for alleviating some of the stress against snipers. Having dedicated 2-3 officers being able to provide a constant smoke cloud over a area for the rest of the team encourages teamplay and doesn't provide a direct counter to make snipers useless. 

Can't comment on infantry balance, but I think 2-3 offices for constant smoke cover on tanks is pretty fair. Considering the opportunity cost of it is 2-3 advanced repairs, which by itself is enough to sustain a tankline, it seems to be a reasonable tradeoff. The whole base defense jamming thing would probably have to go though.

[yosh56]

4 hours ago, Xeon Wraith said:

Y'know, normally one would think smoke grenades would be a pretty standard way of countering precision gunfire. Not too sure why smoke grenades are so terrible at doing at in Ren X.

They're actually not that terrible... I use them like that all the time. Officers hard counter the hell out of snipers that can't see/target you, considering it's a lot more disadvantageous for them to fire blindly with a single-shot weapon than it is for you to spray and pray your ass off in the general direction of their head.Especially on a map like Reservoir where you can flank and smoke so they're blind and have no idea why they're dying. 

That said, they could probably use a buff to either coverage area or length of time. Or just make it so you can't target even people you've already targeted through them. 

Also IR smoke blocking base defenses is one of the few things in this game that actually makes sense. 

[Madkill40]

10 hours ago, yosh56 said:

Also IR smoke blocking base defenses is one of the few things in this game that actually makes sense. 

Genuinely forgot this was possible.

[limsup]

On 2017. 06. 23. at 1:49 PM, Madkill40 said:

On 2017. 06. 23. at 3:36 AM, yosh56 said:

Also IR smoke blocking base defenses is one of the few things in this game that actually makes sense. 

Genuinely forgot this was possible.

Yesterday I witnessed (by chance) for the very first time, IR smoke being used to block repair beams, in order to protect the Nuke beacon. This revelation makes me feel that IR smoke's versatility is underestimated by a significant number of players...

P.s.: I apologize for being off-topic!

Edited June 24, 2017 by limsup

[Tomcat_]

In my belief, the problem with "unfair" matches is not so much specific players as it is small groups of players. From what I've observed, the most egregious cases of teamstacking happen in games of 12-16, when a handful of skilled individuals (2-4, usually) who have a good rapport with one another play several games in a row and want to be on the same team for every match. It's quite easy for that to happen immediately or shortly after a new game starts. All it takes is a 1 player difference in teams or 1-2 unaware players who want to team switch because they prefer ketchup or mustard. That group of players then organizes a brilliant rush or infiltration that the other team of average schmoes can't hope to beat, especially on big maps, and the game ends in five minutes. People quit after a few repetitions of this, and who can blame them? I certainly don't. Five minute one-sided games, one after another, are not fun.

 

I understand why people do it. Everyone prefers experienced teammates. It's even better if they're also your buddies. And everyone wants to win. But team stacking does not make for a good game. 

 

"Teamwork wins" is the high school analysis of this scenario. The reality is that many people who play this game either 1) don't pay attention to the chat, 2) don't pay attention to vote text, 3) do not speak or understand English adequately enough to communicate or follow the chat/votes, 4) are unfamiliar with the levels and/or the "secret" or backdoor routes that are often capitalized on by veterans, or 5) are simply not skilled enough to match the opposing stacked team, even when trying to work together. In 30v30 games, these are non-problems - the odds favor generally balanced matches. In smaller games, they are crippling!

I propose disabling team switch for the first ten minutes of the match. I imagine it's a long enough time for switching to the other team to be unattractive. My line of thinking is that after ten minutes, in a small game, one will have already accumulated credits and some sense of commitment to the side you're on. Alternatively, make team switching carry some consequence, like forcing you to spectate for a few minutes before spawning. 

[Sn4ke]

1 hour ago, Tomcat_ said:

like forcing you to spectate for a few minutes before spawning. 

no! spectator mode is perfect for gathering information about the enemy.

[limsup]

1 hour ago, Tomcat_ said:

like forcing you to spectate for a few minutes before spawning

I wonder, how many people would wait idly by for this time period to pass, instead of quitting and then re-joining... 

[Tomcat_]

Ah, you're totally right. It was quite late when I wrote that post and I hadn't thought about that.  

[Boomer]

When I see @yosh56 I'll always stick to him, otherwise I can't play without team stacking.

[Arch-nemesis]

I read most of whats been said abt this topic and i totally agree

Lately public servers are becoming a bit frustrating due to the almost abscence of teamwork and communication

You couls apend a lot of time calling for a rush only to find yourself only with 1-2 players actually joining... and this is frustrating.... u can call on team chat... team syrvey but no one responds bcz everyone has his own plan for the game

Renx is a team game and a team always needs a leader

Befor the vote team commander option was removed u could see the commander able to maintain some sort of plan-order-teamplay.... but nowadays just like i said befor its almost every man for himslef most of the time

For those who played renx for a while now, the players with commader skills are well known and they actually know what to do

So in my opinion it would be great if @yosh56 could bring it back to the game .... we really need it

[[B]Veyron]

there's a reason why anything that's "public" isn't the best.. you get all this shit.  3 wholes pages of shit and many people trying to come to terms with it.  I like how people take this game seriously - I know I do.  It reminds me of Halo 2 modding days on the first xbox - samething kinda.  Godspeed.

[yosh56]

16 hours ago, Arch-nemesis said:

So in my opinion it would be great if @yosh56 could bring it back to the game .... we really need it

Planned. That was originally a mutator. Has slowly been being added back into the base game over time.