Reservoir

[Quinc3y]

My feedback:

Positives

The dam system and the infantry area. The idea with the capturable dam is original and it adds a strategic element. The dam itself is big, has many paths to use and objects to hide behind. The connection to the vehicle area is nice as well. There is only one problem about the infantry area which I will get to later.

Graphics. The map's beautiful, one of the best looking in the game if you ask me.

Negatives

ONLY ONE VEHICLE ENTRANCE. And a very tight one, at that. I've already complained a lot about such maps... I feel like maps that have only one vehicle entrance per base belong to a different category, The gameplay on such maps is so different. Can't do a vehicle rush (except for maybe stanks, but that's difficult as well). Can't sneak in via main entrance as infantry. Can't surprise the enemy at all. Just look at maps like Islands, Xmountain, Under or Reservoir and compare their intensity with Volcano or Tomb. The latter are so much more thrilling to play. Even worse, on Reservoir you don't really benefit much from the field control, because you can't even kill the enemy harvester. Talking about which....

WAY TOO MUCH CREDITS. After 1 hour players on both teams had over 10k credits on average. The harvester route is really short and every dump is 300 credits. The silo feels completely unnecessary and it's irrelevant who has control of it.

Base defences. The gameplay is already stale and it's difficult to sneak into enemy base, especially on a PUG where both teams have dedicated defenders. And the dam system kind of helps with defending, too. I don't see the purpose of base defences.

Only one infantry exit. If the enemy team has better snipers or generally players with better aim, they can just lock you in your base on the infantry side.

No interesting rushes possible? I'm not entirely sure about this one, but yeah... looks like a consequence of what I mentioned above. Because of the choke points at the vehicle entrances to both bases, you can't really do a proper vehicle rush (unless you miraculously sneak in some stanks). I didn't see any spot for rocket rushes, because both bases are surrounded by rocks. Only one infantry exit makes it super hard to suprise the enemy, because most likely they will see you coming early. Finally, base defences. 

Honestly, right now the map looks pretty much like Islands with base defences and with a more interesting infantry area.

My suggestions on how to fix it:

The one major fix needed is to add one more vehicle path. I know this is a lot of work and a big change, but I don't see this map among top maps with only one, tight vehicle entrance like it is now. There are some simplier fixes that would make the experience better though: remove base defences. Replace silo with a medical centre (because infantry is meant to be important here, right?). Open the second tunnel (the one near PP), so you can leave your base through it as well. Decrease harvester dump to 200 credits (like on Islands). Maybe remove some rocks to make HoN and WF more exposed as well?

 

[Guest Gliven]

i suggest another vehicle path between the bar and the hon, have it angled towards the dam to prevent b2b and if you own the dam, it will help defend that entrance.

[Sn4ke]

proxy mines slightly subside into the HoN floor. If you crouch you can't disarm 'em even if you trigger em [aim higher and it's possible though...].

@Henk fix that please. is base level slightly lower then map level? dunno what caused that

[Luhrian]

I have to add here something.

If you destroy the GT behind the Nod PP and go to Nod Refinery the Turret doesn't shoot, but on GDI side the GT is focusing you.

So it is much easier for GDI to sneak into Nod Refinery then for Nod.

 

 

 

 

The problem of many maps is, that the Nod base is bigger then the base of the GDI.

Maybe you should move the Refinery a bit to make the base smaller.

 

But nice map, I really like it.

 

 

Edited January 28, 2017 by (Ger)Luhrian

[dtdesign]

One thing I would like to add to @Quincy's list are the dozens of obstacles scattered around inside the GDI base. This is fine from an infantry perspective and adds quite a lot of detail, but once you sit in a mammoth it's basically like navigating through a minefield.

At some point I was basically bumping my mammoth through our base, there was no way you could call this driving. In general, navigating around GDI base in a tank is rather unpleasant due to the difficult terrain, especially considering the ref sitting on an own level.

That said, I love the level of detail of that map, but the GDI base could really benefit from a marauding steamroller

[boxes]

The bottom part of the dam, the area around the river is very uninteresting. It doesn't lead anywhere and the field also isn't very inf-friendly. Also a ridiculous amount of places for snipers to kill repairs

[Quinc3y]

4 minutes ago, CampinJeff said:

The bottom part of the dam, the area around the river is very uninteresting. It doesn't lead anywhere and the field also isn't very inf-friendly. Also a ridiculous amount of places for snipers to kill repairs

The bottom part of the dam is where the MCT & passage to the side tunnel is. And where you can enter the dam from the vehicle area. Snipers: yes, the dam is nice for them. The field is similar to Field's field. Silo area, river, some rocks for cover. It's not that bad.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Quincy

[boxes]

Was referring to tanks, and if you go inside the dam even with inf, it's not going to help your team with field control, and as of right now the dam MCT isn't as helpful

The whole field is slanted like a valley, much more than Field. This makes it very easy for tanks to shoot infantry, arty in particular. Sure theres the silo and some obstacles, but there's limited cover assuming snipers are watching the field from the dam aswell. 

[Quinc3y]

True that

[Luhrian]

But what happend with the repair pad? I thought there was one at the last version.

[Sn4ke]

32 minutes ago, (Ger)Luhrian said:

The problem of many maps is, that the Nod base is bigger then the base of the GDI.

Maybe you should move the Refinery a bit to make the base smaller.

did you ever consider that Nods airstrip has a different scale then GDI WF?

[Luhrian]

Yes that is right, but that is no reason for making the base bigger. If someone sneaked into Refinery you need more time to reach it, but every single second is important to save a bulding. And here the GDI has a big advantage, because their base is smaller.

[boxes]

3 minutes ago, (Ger)Luhrian said:

Yes that is right, but that is no reason for making the base bigger. If someone sneaked into Refinery you need more time to reach it, but every single second is important to save a bulding. And here the GDI has a big advantage, because their base is smaller.

Pretty certain the base size difference is consistent with every map, except Valley, Snow, and maybe Field. If you check the distance between the Nod MCTs compared to GDI MCTs, Nod's will always be farther apart. That's why I always find GDI sneaking to be a lot easier regardless of the map. 

[Sn4ke]

8 minutes ago, (Ger)Luhrian said:

Yes that is right, but that is no reason for making the base bigger.

Please reconsider your logic.

Let's make that comparison more simple. Take a look at your posted screen. Compare your marked GDI base with the marked Nod base. Now take airstrip -vs- weapons factory scale into account.

What exactly is your point?

1 minute ago, CampinJeff said:

Pretty certain the base size difference is consistent with every map, except Valley, Snow, and maybe Field. If you check the distance between the Nod MCTs compared to GDI MCTs, Nod's will always be farther apart. That's why I always find GDI sneaking to be a lot easier regardless of the map. 

main reason for that is the airstrip scale (imo)

Edited January 28, 2017 by DarkSn4ke

[Hohndo]

Has anyone considered making a Weapons Factory type building for NOD smililar to Tuberium Sun's building for balance sake on some maps as a alternative?

Edited January 29, 2017 by Hohndo

[boxes]

18 minutes ago, Hohndo said:

Has anyone considered making a Weapons Factory type building for NOD smililar to Tuberium Sun's building for balance sake on some maps as a alternative?

Nope, but to be honest the issue of Nod bases being bigger can be fixed by making their building doors face towards areas with high activity. Also the cargo jet could be a lot quieter so it doesn't ring off alarm bells to GDI that a vehicle attack is coming

[Boomer]

I suck at discovering map features but what does the dam MCT provide if captured?

[boxes]

10 minutes ago, Boomer said:

I suck at discovering map features but what does the dam MCT provide if captured?

There's a secret passageway behind both powerplants. After you capture the MCT, look behind you and you'll see the entrance

[Hohndo]

5 hours ago, CampinJeff said:

Nope, but to be honest the issue of Nod bases being bigger can be fixed by making their building doors face towards areas with high activity. Also the cargo jet could be a lot quieter so it doesn't ring off alarm bells to GDI that a vehicle attack is coming

Yeah that puts NOD at a huge disadvantage there.

I'd still like to see a weapons factory. It'd make maps more balanced.

You could also do Hand Of NOD similar to Tiberium Sun with only one direction to enter to really level things out to be completely even.

[Sn4ke]

2 hours ago, Hohndo said:

You could also do Hand Of NOD similar to Tiberium Sun with only one direction to enter to really level things out to be completely even.

then you'd have to change strip too

[Fffreak9999]

32 minutes ago, DarkSn4ke said:

then you'd have to change strip too

You have more options when it comes to the airstrip, i.e hiding most of it beneath the ground by angling the strip at an angle. It just ends up being awkward, and unpredictable and you may have places where it could be ion'd even though there is no strip there (visible)

[Sn4ke]

On 26.1.2017 at 2:14 PM, yosh56 said:

Goldrush: +Added collision to airstrip lights by default so no Ion can be planted inside (no worries you can still drive over them, we tested)

Guess Reservoir needs an airstrip update too. Got no light collisions so far, while other maps have that. [at least I've seen that on Field too..]

[Ryz]

Really liked playing Reservoir yesterday. The fact that it was such a stalemate had to do with the (finally) balanced teams. I was one of the people I usually hate and camped the dam all game as a dedicated defender, so 'we' could spot rushes before they even left the enemy base.

Found one bug: while we were trying to outside C4 the bar, I got stuck in the 'grass / forest' on the side of the barracks.

I didn't have time to check the vehicle path, cause I was 'assigned' to defend all game. Overall I think the map is pretty good,but that the teams were the problem yesterday. Or to put it better; the teams weren't the problem this time cause no team made mistakes thus not giving the other side a chance. 

Edited January 29, 2017 by Ryz
typo

[Henk]

The harvester dump will be lowered to 150 or 200.

Not having access to this huge amount of credits will influence the dynamics of the gameplay heavily, now it's nearly as if you have access to unlimited airstrikes, mammoth tanks and 1k infantry, so keep in mind that with less money to go around a lot will change already.

Changing both the economy and adding another vehicle entrance might create more problems than it fixes. The narrow, outer vehicle route is usually less crowded and is the better option for suprirse vehicle rushes. I know it leads to the same entrance as the main path, but the enemy has less eyes on that path, and it's harder to take out the tanks before they arrive at the base entrance.

 

The base defenses are staying in, not every match is a 20 vs 20 with multiple dedicated defenders. And even on a 25 vs 25 (pub) game people were able to destroy the back GTs with some teamwork (the nod one without being noticed even). They give teams an extra layer of defense, but they're easy enough to destroy. Once they are down it is very easy to get to the refineries. When you notice the backside GT is down, you'll need to keep an extra eye on your refinery.

Medical Center instead of silo: yes, probably a good idea. Medical Center wasn't around when I started on this map.

 

The biggest change I'm considering is adding another infantry path, like these white lines:

Not sure if I will make it an exit only (like a ledge you drop down from), or a 2 way path. A 2 way path will make it too easy for infantry on the dominant team to get in (if you control the dam and the front of the base there's a lot of entrances), what I want to fix is having more, safer ways out of your base. From these paths you can either attack sieging tanks from behind/flank, or go to the dam and reach the MCT and balcony without getting sniped as easily as on the top of the dam. So most likely it'll be an exit only.

 

If anyone wants to sketch out new ideas, here's a blank version of the overview map: http://i.imgur.com/0ZP6cZM.jpg

 

So no extra vehicle path or removal of rocks making it easier to siege the base, let's first see what a huge change to the economy does.

[Xtractor]

Imo that would be too much infantry paths to cover ,Thats would make (including the Vehicules/inf path) =6 Path to cover

One thing for sure GDI Base need some ground level down so they can move freely in their base ..poor them  when i saw them all stack in front of their WF and they couldnt move much

 

Edited January 29, 2017 by Xtractor

[Henk]

4 hours ago, Xtractor said:

Imo that would be too much infantry paths to cover ,Thats would make (including the Vehicules/inf path) =6 Path to cover

One thing for sure GDI Base need some ground level down so they can move freely in their base ..poor them  when i saw them all stack in front of their WF and they couldnt move much

 

If it's exit only, it won't be an extra path to cover. And I can position the rocks in a way that enemy tanks won't be able to hit HoN or Barracks through that new opening.

[boxes]

The narrow path still has moderate activity, and they lead to the exact same place as the main vehicle path. Not adding another vehicle path is fine, but the base entrance need to be bigger, particularly GDI's base. As of right now, the outer vehicle path in front of GDI's base leads to nowhere special, while on Nod's base it leads behind the airstrip. Example, the wall next to the WF should be made a vehicle path. In return the airstrip tower should perhaps be pushed a little more towards the field so it's easier to hit. 

Adding 1 way infantry paths like that on the rocks will add even more places for snipers to watch the field. There's already approximately 20+ safe spots to spot the field on or near the existing infantry path. Like I mentioned earlier the spot at the bottom of the dam is pointless for vehicles because it doesn't lead anywhere interesting. Maybe something can be done, maybe making the outer line you marked on both sides on the map a vehicle path into a base. 

[Henk]

The lower part near the dam is blocked to vehicles. And making that infantry path i suggest a vehicle path would be a really weird and steep vehicle path.

The new infantry path doesn't have to be a ledge, I didn't show the elevation/height of the path (because it's top down  ) but it can be steep at first, so a ledge near the Barracks/hon, without any elevated overview of the vehicle field. and then a short canyon into the field.

For changes to the vehicle entrance i'll need to check inside the editor, for lines of sight for Arties and Rocket Soldiers.

[Xtractor]

2 hours ago, Henk said:

If it's exit only, it won't be an extra path to cover. And I can position the rocks in a way that enemy tanks won't be able to hit HoN or Barracks through that new opening.

Sound good..I think;)

[TK0104]

@Henkyou can hit the hand from the hon from the gdi infantry entrance

[dtdesign]

@Henk Just got stuck on a vehicle obstacle at the east end of Nod infantry path near the vehicle entrance. Thanks to the detailed minimap, you can easily narrow it down, just look at the fat strip arrow shown in the minimap  

Edited February 3, 2017 by dtdesign

[Kaiser739]

Two more spots to get stuck at:

#1

 

#2

 

Edited February 14, 2017 by Kaiser739

[swaffelen]

There is also a stuck spot at the sniper perch overlooking the field at the top of Nod's stairs. If you go up there but jump beside the stairs, you can get stuck in the tree closest to the sniper perch. Sorry I don't have a screenshot.

[Mystic~]

I just want to add some more feedback for Reservoir. Is it possible to make some changes to the short cave paths on either side? It still seems really unfair that GDI can do a gunner/rocket rush and hit the Hand of Nod from their cave, but Nod can't do anything similar on the opposite side in the GDI cave in order to reach the barracks. What I'm suggesting is removing the cliff drop so that it essentially becomes just a ramp and it can be used by either team as either an exit or entrance into the base, hotwires and techs could attempt to sneak from it for example. GDI could still hit the Hand but now Nod could also run a bit closer until their line of sight lets them hit the barracks also.

[AshbyJones]

On 1/28/2017 at 3:04 PM, boxes said:

The bottom part of the dam, the area around the river is very uninteresting. It doesn't lead anywhere and the field also isn't very inf-friendly. Also a ridiculous amount of places for snipers to kill repairs

yes--only good for gunners to run across when rushing hon...

 

Also theres that weird middle steel walkway outside the dam....literally no point to it...