Mining

[Sn4ke]

47 minutes ago, DarkSn4ke said:

The current mining system is fine. The only thing that might be changed is who's able to disarm team mines

@poi ❄ did I say the mining system should be changed in regards of how it works in general? Nah. I just mentioned the "remove team mates mines" issue.

e.g. we all know our good friend knabis64 - who's permanently mine-banned on all CT Servers - usually there's a moderator online to take care of overminers.... but if this is NOT the case and if some players are blocking a mining-ban-vote there is nothing you can do about this. So currently 1 player is able to ruin the gaming experience of 9 others. (with 20 players per team the mine-ban-vote usually passes, but not on low population servers)

Edited November 22, 2016 by DarkSn4ke

[Axesor]

@Xtractor forget about laser wall, we are no longer considering it as it dont have its aoe potential. Iam considering implementation of Jeffs mines. I think that Jeff got a good idea, and Iam just trying to improve/edit that a bit.

Iam also for keeping mines as for personal free use, but then they mustnt be invulnerable anymore.

[Xtractor]

Why all this debate !!

Its only for bad miners ?

Why trying to implement Complicate Stuff\mechanic only to counter bad mining ..

I like prox mines and I like putting them where I want

BUT if im limited in the numbers of mines I can deploy I think it should do the trick of overming and go crazy with them lol

Noob vs pro miners

If the limit of purchasable mines would be less for a newbie\noob and increase to a Maximum to a Know pro miner this would solve the problem  

 

 

Edited November 22, 2016 by Xtractor

[Sn4ke]

16 minutes ago, Xtractor said:

If the limit of purchasable mines would be less for a newbie\noob and increase to a Maximum to a Know pro miner this would solve the problem  

and I want a choclate bar, a SBH suit for real and a RenX version of Glacier_flying!

 

[Xtractor]

Server Mods increase\decrease Miner status to players

Status :Noob(Default) ,intermediate,Pro

Depending on your status your mines limit is increase or decrease

Anytime your rejoin this server your statut  stay ,unless  a Mod or a Vote change it

Enabling Global OverRide Status Change for PUG ..Everybody is Pro

 

Or the contrary mb better : All Pro by default and Mod or vote decrease Status if needed

 

 

Edited November 22, 2016 by Xtractor

[Axesor]

I'am not even arguing with supporters of the current mining system, becouse they are completely aware of its flaws and they are ok with it. While I'd like to fix this flaws to prevent from any trolling, or newbie mistakes, and banning from mining, and all this stress that current mining brings. What I want is fixed building defences that cant be screwed up, and that will provide absolutely the same thing as current mines, while you can use your own mines anywhere else you'd like to. 

I see Jeff's fixed "energy" mines as a very good solution to this, as it is the closest replacement for current mines. So I'd like to lie down a question for these who'd like to change the mining system:

1. Do you support Jeff's idea?
2. Would you like to improve/edit Jeffs idea? I personally think, that Jeff's "energy" mines should be able to recharge itself automatically after 15 seconds, if they are not hacked. They could be disabled/hacked with a repair gun/tool, and if they are, they need to be claimed back.

[Luhrian]

@Axesor

21 hours ago, Axesor said:

For explanation: what gives more sence to you? mines popping out of the ground or harming laser in the door that can disabled via hacking a door pannel with a repair gun?

You can make a countdown for mining (look at the screens).

But I am totaly ok with the lasers at a door. But if someone hacking this laser, how do you can see it? If you are on Walls how do you want to see, that the laser at Power Plant is offline? And if you can see on the overview map that the laser at Power Plant is offline, it would be too difficult to kill a bulding by sneaking. If you can see all mines from your team on the overview map, we could update this ervery minute. I mean that you can see all mines from your team on the overview map, is just a feature to prevent usless mining.

Edited November 22, 2016 by (Ger)Luhrian

[Xtractor]

25 minutes ago, Axesor said:

 

1. Do you support Jeff's idea?

No

[Sn4ke]

7 minutes ago, Xtractor said:

Server Mods increase\decrease Miner status to players

Status :Noob(Default) ,intermediate,Pro

Depending on your status your mines limit is increase or decrease

Anytime your rejoin this server your statut  stay ,unless  a Mod or a Vote change it

oh, didn't know this is possible. but this leads to discrimination as server owners / mods would have to decide whos a "pro" (and imo there are only very few players worth being called "pro" at all ) and whos a "noob".

and i doubt that server owners would like more work

"energy mines"? well, tbh I'm not sure what you're talking about.

20 hours ago, CampinJeff said:

Now that I think about it more, having pre-placed mines would actually make some sense. Some betas ago, mines didn't have a glow to them. Lets say every door/window has mines, and disarming or triggering them would disable their "glow", making them safe to walk through, and the only way to rearm them is to obviously use repair guns. The mine counter from the start of the game should be maxed out. I find that this way can please both audiences somewhat, the one that wants mines to stay and the other that wants them gone. 

This would:

1. Remove the mining job as a whole
2. Keep the "mines down" logic when an infiltrator is inside a buidling
3. Allow every class can re-arm mines (reptool), making bar/hon losses less severe, and removes the "30 mines in the last building" stalemate-happy strategy
4. Nerf early infantry/apc rushes

What do you guys think?

If you don't know what I'm talking about on the non-glow mines, pause this at 10:03 when he looks at the door. Basically those would be the harmless, disarmed mines. 

are those the "energy mines"?

If so, I don't support Jeff's idea / suggestion. Mining has been a part of Renegade since I started playing C&C Renegade 14 years ago. An automatic mining system that denies the player to decide where to put the mines would ruin my personal gaming experience.

Yes, an automatic system would make the game more noob-friendly. But at what expense?

Renegade was never an easy ego-shooter, but a f*cking hard teamplay based tactic shooter experience. And the proxy mines are part of that.

[Handepsilon]

1 hour ago, DarkSn4ke said:

e.g. we all know our good friend knabis64 - who's permanently mine-banned on all CT Servers - usually there's a moderator online to take care of overminers.... but if this is NOT the case and if some players are blocking a mining-ban-vote there is nothing you can do about this. So currently 1 player is able to ruin the gaming experience of 9 others. (with 20 players per team the mine-ban-vote usually passes, but not on low population servers)

This solution really, this is what bothers me about the current mining system. Why do players need to educate other players on how to mine?
 That's one problem that I find glaring. It's the game's job to educate you about basic use of weapons, not the player. Until there's a tutorial about mining system IN THE GAME, I will still call this bullshit.

That, and the fact that mining takes more than half portion of defense. In most pubs I've played in the past, people just put mines, and go. I dare to say this is as effective, if not more, than if people are actually actively defending the entrances.

No, mining is not part of teamplay. It's an automated system that people happens to check now and then only when they are in the base. You want teamwork? Set up an actual defense team in form of people.

[Axesor]

13 minutes ago, DarkSn4ke said:

Mining has been a part of Renegade since I started playing C&C Renegade 14 years ago. An automatic mining system that denies the player to decide where to put the mines would ruin my personal gaming experience.

I do not support 1st point "removing the mining job as a whole". Iam for keeping mines so you can use em on your personal level anywhere u want. Thats why I asked if you'd like to improve/edit jeffs idea somehow. 

And yeah I named it "energy mines" myself. Iam sorry if it bothers you

Edited November 22, 2016 by Axesor

[Xtractor]

4 minutes ago, DarkSn4ke said:

oh, didn't know this is possible. but this leads to discrimination as server owners / mods would have to decide whos a "pro" (and imo there are only very few players worth being called "pro" at all ) and whos a "noob".

and i doubt that server owners would like more work

 

Well Its probably not possible at the moment ..Terms mb be call what ever Devs thinks ,its just an exemple..If Vote decide it , its not from Mods /owner .

[Sn4ke]

4 minutes ago, Handepsilon said:

No, mining is not part of teamplay. It's an automated system that people happens to check now and then only when they are in the base. You want teamwork? Set up an actual defense team in form of people.

with the current system mining is definitely part of teamplay. even on public servers there are many dedicated defenders that take care of the mining & those attacking rely upon them.

And on organized games there are always 1-2 players (depends on teamsize) as active defenders. It's an automated system in the way that they are triggered by enemy infantry, but still players have to place them and defenders have to decide where to place them and how many. Especially on big maps or flying maps multiple defenders have to communicate so they dont fuck up each other minings.

So why is mining not part of the teamplay?

[Luhrian]

13 minutes ago, DarkSn4ke said:

Mining has been a part of Renegade since I started playing C&C Renegade 14 years ago. An automatic mining system that denies the player to decide where to put the mines would ruin my personal gaming experience.

An automatic mining system is good, because there will be no shit mines. And mining isn't a big part of Renegade and I think nobody will be sad, if we improve it. The problem is that u can't mine Infantry Paths. And you can't replace mines from destroyed buldings.
Maybe we can add some automatic mines on the infanty paths or give every team some free mines.

 

 

[vandal33]

knabis64 got permanently mine-banned??? We need personal proxy mine limits now! It's not fair that people get mine-banned just because they are not "pro miners". People need to stop relying on proxy mines as their only hope to defend and unfairly ban those who use it at personal level. Yes, door mining can make a difference and would be too advantageous to only one team if the other didn't door-mine but I want proximity c4 to be more use than just door defense.

This is why I suggested Proximity C4 not to be team capped so people like our good friend, knabis64 can use it anyway they like without hampering the team. The game has low playerbase, we should start making things easier for newcomers where they can't accidentally hamper their teams and get scolded for it.

Personally, I am fine with the current system, I don't mind new players ruined a perfectly mined base, everybody makes mistakes when they're new but if the system is turning every veteran into monsters that will flame/ban newcomers for not knowing how to mine, then change the system where newcomers can still use proximity C4s but not hamper the team.

[Sn4ke]

5 minutes ago, vandal33 said:

knabis64 got permanently mine-banned??? We need personal proxy mine limits now! It's not fair that people get mine-banned just because they are not "pro miners".

Well, to my knowledge knabis64 got mine-baned forever for FREQUENT teamhampering.

I personally complained about him several matches because he fucked up my mining / anyone elses mining on purpose!!!

e.g. he placed multiples mines at the harvester dump spot on Field or just put mines at spots noone really goes to.

And don't tell me this got something to do with being a "pro" miner. knabis64 only did this to annoy his teammates.

Edited November 22, 2016 by DarkSn4ke

[Luhrian]

@vandal33

 

knabis is a team hamperer. He done many things to prevent every good action. People like me (I was a bad overminer) learning how to mine, but knabis do nothing.  kanbis is doing this intentionally.

[Xtractor]

First automatic Mining : Is a NO go for me ..never! (its counterintuitive and  like press Key to activate  )

Second ;Mines Banning Should Stop !

Make the system to counter these mistakes or intentional behavior without Banning

My sugestion ^^ few post up ..Is a learning system for beginner without any banning and has full benefit to experience players

 

 

Edited November 22, 2016 by Xtractor

[Sire]

To quote myself from a month before:

On 10/22/2016 at 9:35 AM, Sire said:

I still believe the current mining system is fine and it boils down to two issues. First, educating new players on the complexities of the mining system. Second, no one really wants to defend the base as guard duty sucks. I am also trying to look at the mining problem from a perspective of a newcomer and not a veteran, so my suggestions were trying to be more newbie friendly.

As it has been stated several times, while basic mine tactics are perhaps three a door, advanced mining takes in account HON windows, Strip Tower, Barracks Door vs Sandbags, tunnel locations, and so on. This is a lot to take in and won't be learned immediately, but if a player continues putting effort into the game, they should pick up on it in time. Not all games have an easy learning curve, and while easy to learn, hard to master is perhaps the goal for most games, some games are just complex and players will need to adapt or play something else.

Secondly, if there are a lot of players out in the field, it is easy for in infiltrator to sneak into the base and blow it up. Even in RTS C&C, if there are no defending units or base defenses, an Engineer or Commando can waltz right in and cause havoc. Then there is the threat of SBHs for GDI, and while there may be a player or two patrolling around in an APC or Humvee, it is probably seen as a dull job despite how important it can be. A dedicated defender calling out when the base is under attack can do wonders, especially when the team is responsive to the callout. Should they ignore the threat, perhaps the team deserved to lose the structure. If the team is mostly tied up elsewhere and can't respond in time, then congratulations on the Infiltrator for choosing the right time to sneak in.

I voted to keep the mining system as is, but allow players to disarm all mines. When a player disarms a mine that is not theirs, a warning is put out in chat ("Sire is disarming near the Refinery!") so players can take appropriate action if needed. Allowing players to disarm all mines can be useful when disarming a destroyed building to fortify other positions. This, combined with mine banning and proper education in the way of mining, should be sufficient. Yes, allowing all players to disarm allows for trolling and team hampering, but this should be moderated and contained by the players unless it gets out of hand.

The mining system is an essential defense mechanism in Renegade X, with its mechanics carried over from the original C&C Renegade. As Renegade X is based off of the original, it will be extremely difficult to break from the Mining tradition set forth from the base game with all of its pros and cons.

The flaws of the current mining system are:
1. Overmining - Whether it be a noob or troll, if there is overmining, chances are the entire base will need to be remined.
2. "False Positive, Max Mines" - This is a big one. Since most players just look at the mine count and shout out "Mines!" to warn of possible infiltration, if all the mines are maxed but a building is infiltrated and dies anyway, there will be some angry players wondering what happened to the mine placement.
3: Over-reliance on Mine Defense - This is just how the game works, but mines are an essential defense mechanism meant to counter infiltrators. If mines are not placed properly, that team can lose the game due to one structure loss, and this extreme fact is why mining is such a debated issue. If mines are properly placed, then everyone is fine and will continue playing, but if mines were misplaced, some players may ragequit because of improper mine management.
4: Proxies for Base Defense Only - While veterans probably accepted this as a fact, some players may want to use proxy mines elsewhere, such as mining a beacon, mining crates, infantry passages, the silo, and so on.
5: Complexity - This is especially the case on flying maps for Nod due to Hand of Nod windows and the Airstrip Tower. While the basic rule may be three a door, with more complex variables players may not know where to allocate their mines, including excess mines. Combined with the fact that mines are essential to base defense, this is another reason why mining is a debated topic.

What we want to see fixed seems to be:
1. Newbie Friendly Mining - Due to mining complexity but the essential nature of proper mine placement, these facts meant it difficult for newcomers to understand mining. Sadly, there is no easily accessible tutorial on this matter. There can be a simple video tutorial going through the mine basics until a proper tutorial is implemented into Renegade X.
2: Trolls and Team Hampers - This is inevitable and bound to happen. However, I believe the current mod system as well as the player voting system is sufficient enough for most cases, with the more extreme ones handled by admins and the like.
3: Mining Stress - Again, this comes to the essential nature of proper mines, and if mines are screwed up, players tend to get frustrated.

Most suggestions opt for an automated system of some sort, but then complaints may shift to blaming a "broken automated system" and players wishing they could mine themselves so they can mine properly.

At its core, Mines are a complex base defense mechanism, managed by players, meant to counter infiltrators. It comes from traditional C&C Renegade, and changing the mining system will no doubt bother purists of the original. The problem is the essential nature of mines and if they are used improperly, games can be lost. So, we want to find a solution that makes mines easier to use or make them less essential to the overall match.

At any rate, I highly suggest resetting the poll and making new options so we can have another round of opinions. I am fine with the mining system as it is and realize that any changes to the mining system will have far reaching consequences due to how essential mines are to defense, but am willing to experiment with new ideas.

To be honest though, this discussion seems to be going in circles and not getting anywhere, with players just repeating the same things over and over every so often. There needs to be a specialized topic, such as improving the existing system or refining one of the ideas for possible use in Renegade X, with all the nuances and little details accounted for.

* * * * *

Random thought, but how about we keep the mining system as is, but add a laser defense system to flying versions of the Hand of Nod windows and the Airstrip Tower, perhaps turning off when the Power Plant is destroyed.. Yes, this is a nerf to GDI infiltrators, but it should help a little bit with Nod base defense and the whole mining thing. Nod already has some special stuff that doesn't fit with the rest of the game (Stealth Infantry and Tanks), and have a history with laser technology, so why not use that?

Edited November 22, 2016 by Sire

[Handepsilon]

30 minutes ago, DarkSn4ke said:

with the current system mining is definitely part of teamplay. even on public servers there are many dedicated defenders that take care of the mining & those attacking rely upon them.

And on organized games there are always 1-2 players (depends on teamsize) as active defenders. It's an automated system in the way that they are triggered by enemy infantry, but still players have to place them and defenders have to decide where to place them and how many. Especially on big maps or flying maps multiple defenders have to communicate so they dont fuck up each other minings.

So why is mining not part of the teamplay?

Ask yourself how often you ever change mining placement per map. The pattern is usually the same, 3 per door, 3 on this HoN window, 3 on the tunnel etc. Etc. Something blows it up, replace on exact same spot. This goes on and on you might start thinking if the Hottie/Tech is just a bot (re)placing mines on the exact same spot every map. Sure, it may or may not stimulates strategic thinking for newbies, but when you've gotten used to it, you will keep repeating that same pattern. Then comes Jeff's idea : "If we keep on placing mines on the exact same place, why not just automate the placement while keeping the tending process manual? Saving us from screwed/trolling mining and mine-ban." And then optionally we can add purchasable mines as extra measure/offensive tools

I'd honestly like to see a scenario of mines being nonexistant. That would be interesting to watch

[Sn4ke]

1 minute ago, Handepsilon said:

Ask yourself how often you ever change mining placement per map.

Believe it or not: I change my mining / map quite often. Yeah 3 mines per door n stuff. But the exact spot where you put those 3 mines makes the difference.

Do you place them directly next to each other so 1 tech / hottie can disarm em within 4 seconds?

Do you place them directly at the door so rushing vehicles can disarm them for their teammates?

Do you place 1 mine further away from the door to prevent SBHs with repgun to disarm mines in one go?

Do you put them on each other? (some guys do that)

Do you mine inside the strip or outside on the stair (nonflying maps with stairs)?

etc. etc.

it's the details in my opinion that make the differenes

And if you change your mining system even slighty / map you might be able to surprise a sneaker

[Handepsilon]

1 minute ago, DarkSn4ke said:

Believe it or not: I change my mining / map quite often. Yeah 3 mines per door n stuff. But the exact spot where you put those 3 mines makes the difference.

Do you place them directly next to each other so 1 tech / hottie can disarm em within 4 seconds?

Do you place them directly at the door so rushing vehicles can disarm them for their teammates?

Do you place 1 mine further away from the door to prevent SBHs with repgun to disarm mines in one go?

Do you put them on each other? (some guys do that)

Do you mine inside the strip or outside on the stair (nonflying maps with stairs)?

etc. etc.

it's the details in my opinion that make the differenes

And if you change your mining system even slighty / map you might be able to surprise a sneaker

Yeah, the details you repeat over and over and over and over and over and... did I mention over?

Yeah, some people tried that. Doesn't end that well most of the time, does it?

[Axesor]

What the hell did I just read about mining details

 

Edited November 22, 2016 by Axesor

[Agent]

There have been quite a few posts in the last day, and I may have skipped a few. The claim that laser/energy walls don't have AoE potential is absurd. You're going into design details that haven't even been considered yet, and could easily be taken care of -- the end implementation might not even use a laser. "Laser wall" just makes it very clear that the doors will be automatically defended (though repairs may be necessary) and can be disabled by charging through them (just as is the case with the current mines) or disabling them (just as is the case with the current mines). The key differences are that over-mining is completely eliminated, proximity mines are removed from a stringent defensive role, mines per building don't increase with every building kill, and you end up with a much simpler mechanic for players to familiarize themselves with. Those would be the explicit goals of a "laser wall".

It is a fact that there is presently only one way to use mines, and that is for base defense, and more specifically defending doors. If you want doors to be automatically defended, then this should be simplified into a door/window defense mechanism. This isn't that complicated; it's simpler AND more aesthetically pleasing than the current mine system.

There is absolutely zero chance that we will categorize players into "good" and "bad" miners. That's the single worst suggestion I've read to date.

[Xtractor]

Whatever ,A sytem Allowing  Different mining patterns is  welcome and some few extra mines for Field ..you know ..Mines field anyone lol

[Agent]

Poll results at time of closing (may replace later):

[Sn4ke]

1 hour ago, Axesor said:

What the hell did I just read about mining details

*kid dying laughing on YT*

@Axesor whats your problem then?

Edited November 22, 2016 by DarkSn4ke

[boxes]

Of the few players who actually care to visit the forums to vote on a poll, more that half voted to leave if mines are removed. It wouldn't be wise to jeopardize the player base any further, over an issue like this. 

[Axesor]

^ mines wont be removed..

[boxes]

Like I said before in my post in case you skimmed over it adding mines along with laser walls is an awful implementation because it adds an additional, rearmable layer of defense that would be totally unnecessary.

[Axesor]

@CampinJeff As agent said, the mines won't be able to place inside, or on the building, and free-to-use personal mine (limit 3 on head) can be destroyed within 2-3 pistol shots, and you still find it to be another layer of defence? This mines would be even less dangerous than remote c4..

[boxes]

Okay, you can place mines outside the perimeter of buildings. You can put mines in tunnel entrances, bridges, or any chokepoint in particular. I do indeed find it another layer of defense. 

[boxes]

Probably the best and easiest way to alleviate the issues is to simply allow all players to disarm mines with the alt-fire, and add a notification if your mines are being disarmed by a teammate, including their name. There's already a mine ban option to prevent certain players from hampering or something along that line, and most people have good intentions for the team. 

[Axesor]

...ok? Is it somehow bad? Personal limit of 3 mines, unorganized placement, and only few ppl who uses adv. engi will actually use them... Since you cant throw the mines and stick it to the walls, I may even find it funny to play with and also funny to play againt it. 

And as I wrote many many times about why I dislike current mine system, I heavily disagree with your last post.

[boxes]

Not going argue about how bad or good it is, the fact that it adds another layer of defense to get inside a base is a big no. Devs are unmotivated right now, and adding something like laser walls or glow mines has a possibility of fracturing the community even further. 

[Axesor]

They can move into the Canada, lol. It remimds me events recently happened...

Me and many other people literally essentially cant stand this nonsence, this current mine system. But it's just there, becouse its been brought from c&c renegade. But we are not moving into the Canada becouse of it, we gotta live with it with all its obvious flaws, becouse we like this game. If there is a way to remove this flaws, it should be done.

Iam perfectly aware of that developers (god bless them) are unmotivated, but its not excuse for US to think about upgrading crap into the crap v2. It doesnt mean that we shouldnt discuss about "perfect" solution. Crap will alway stay crappy, no matter if you put candy on top of it

Edited November 22, 2016 by Axesor

[Sn4ke]

18 hours ago, Handepsilon said:

Something blows it up, replace on exact same spot. This goes on and on you might start thinking if the Hottie/Tech is just a bot (re)placing mines on the exact same spot every map. Sure, it may or may not stimulates strategic thinking for newbies, but when you've gotten used to it, you will keep repeating that same pattern.

In my opinion this is definitely wrong. Because - following your logic almost any ingame action can be considered as "done by a bot".

Human players make intuitive decisions or decisions based on experience. As the RenX maps / the fractions don't change while playing (unless there is an update...) I'd say ~90% (maybe more) of the avg. RenX players use the same set of 2-3 different strategies per map. That means most players will keep repeating the same pattern (for attacking the enemy).

So do you think they are bots or do you consider them as unimaginative?

[j0g32]

Guys, this discussion is going nowhere...

There was an earlier post by @Sire (?) summarising the pros/cons and purpose of mines nicely. Check that out.

 

We need a straightforward solution.

1) allow teammembers to disarm friendly mines. Inform the "placer" to avoid team hampering (on both ends)

2) place "suggested" (rather than designated) mining areas/volumes with individual mine counters, e.g. 2/3 or 4/3 mines.

 Think of a simple touch volume that only reacts to type "mine" and has some UI counter when you approach it, or aim at it, or a color scheme, e.g. red 0 mines, yellow "suboptimal" amount of mines (too few/many), green optimal

This should comprehensively educate new players how to mine, and prevent overmining.

Yet, mines can still be freely placed.

Mining volumes would have to be placed by the level designer, and could have a variable "optimal No of mines" that can be set for side entrances such as windows...

 

Bam.

Fixed.

 

[j0g32]

On a different note: since when are doors, rather than tunnel exits the only right places to mine?!

Take under, you can easily mine the inf. Bottlenecks: tunnel entrance and sifepath with 5-6 mines each.

Problem sneakers?

And a rush tbrough the front door is easy to tackle.

[Novilan]

43 minutes ago, j0g32 said:

On a different note: since when are doors, rather than tunnel exits the only right places to mine?!

Take under, you can easily mine the inf. Bottlenecks: tunnel entrance and sifepath with 5-6 mines each.

Problem sneakers?

And a rush tbrough the front door is easy to tackle.

Mainly because there is a consent that it's most efficient to protect the most important and vulnerable parts in the game directly, the buildings and especially the MCT of each building. There are different threats like sneakers, spies and infantry from vehicles like apcs. For example a Mendoza-spy can easily destroy a building with his C4 and/or shooting the MCT, when nobody is around.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Denuvian

[j0g32]

20 minutes ago, Denuvian said:

when nobody is around.

Thanks, I understand the reasoning, But this exactly my point:

There is no active defense!!!

All the complaints stem from the laziness to defend a base!

And "remining duty" is not active, its re-active!

 

I personally would rather see the introduction of small defensive boni, e.g. for kills by guards/campers, or simply for patrolling, i.e. walking/driving around the base (even without killing anyone)...

 

Yes, point farming might be an issue...

But we already have veterancy to incentivise offense...

 

Edited November 23, 2016 by j0g32

[Axesor]

@j0g32 

1 hour ago, j0g32 said:

1) allow teammembers to disarm friendly mines.

Cant call it to be of any kind of solution. Its just not.

 

@everyone 

People've decided. There are 3 possible solutions:

• Fully manual solution: Designed mining area. It keeps the whole mine placement procedure on the players, and cant be screwed/trolled too much
• Half automatic: Jeffs mines, or even laser wall. Already preset antiinfiltration device. Players dont need to worry about mines placement being screwed up. Players only needs to recharged discharged antiinfiltration devices.
• (¼)Automatic: Laser wall, laser wall combined with energy mines, or whatever. Players dont need to worry about mines being screwed up. Players need to claim the device back if it's been hacked only. The harming device recharges itself after use in XX seconds.

I'd be fine with anything above (a bit less happy with designed mine area, becouse the mines could be still screwed up). So at the end of the day, Iam happy with the poll results, that says that players would like to keep mines in the game + they want (¼)automatic antiinfiltratio device.

[Xtractor]

I'm an Original Renegade player and have no problem with evolving/new stuff.

What I think now is : Buildings shouldn't be allow for interior mining ,This is unrealistic first ,unless you boogy trap and damage your own buildings.

Mining Have to stay tho at full power else where.

If a Good Fair system is put in place for Defenders and Attackers i'm ok with that ( usualy ppl look at only the defending side)

Until then leave as it is .

I think the Questions should be ?

-Should Mining interior buildings be replace by an other building defense system  ? (if pool say Yes go to the second question)

-What other defense system to replace mining interior do you suggest.

last pool :all thebest suggestions choices

End of story lol

 

Edited November 23, 2016 by Xtractor

[Novilan]

14 minutes ago, j0g32 said:

Thanks, I understand the reasoning, But this exactly my point:

There is no active defense!!!

All the complaints stem from the laziness to defend a base!

And "remining duty" is not active, its re-active!

Yes, that's about right. But well, the only reason people are playing is for fun and for the most people it's no fun to stand in the base the whole time, which can be hours on a marathon game, waiting and looking out for somebody sneaking into the base at some time.

Therefore a re-active system is probably already the best regarding that issue.

[j0g32]

35 minutes ago, Denuvian said:

But well, the only reason people are playing is for fun and for the most people it's no fun to stand in the base the whole time, which can be hours on a marathon game, waiting and looking out for somebody sneaking into the base at some time.

Yep, that's why we might want to make defense more fun...

By giving rewards or making it more attractive, e.g. designated degense spots with cover or gun emplacments.

Because apperently loosing a game due to "bad defense" is super frustrating as well...

Do you feel me now?!

[Novilan]

35 minutes ago, j0g32 said:

Yep, that's why we might want to make defense more fun...

By giving rewards or making it more attractive, e.g. designated degense spots with cover or gun emplacments.

Because apperently loosing a game due to "bad defense" is super frustrating as well...

Do you feel me now?!

Well, at least this thread is about whether or not to implement an already preinstalled re-active building-defense-system and how to do that and so simplifying the current system.

Besides that I think everybody here knows, what you mean. But defending the base for an unknown, maybe long time will never make more fun than being in the field fighting, despite gun emplacements or whatever.

[Axesor]

Making defending more fun is a whole new topic.

If you increase the reward for defenders, it would only make active defending more prestige = more base bitching ≠ no fun for attackers nor defenders.

Or trying to make defending the base more fun by adding new feature, would result only in active defending being too OP.

If you want to discuss about how to make defending more fun, I suggest to create a new topic. My opinion on active defence been always mobilized counter attack, but the details are way too controvelsal to be written down there, and I dont want to discuss it in "passive defence" thread.

[Sn4ke]

3 hours ago, Axesor said:

@everyone 

People've decided. There are 3 possible solutions:

33 active forum members voted. so "people" decided that devs gotta change the game?

Edited November 23, 2016 by DarkSn4ke

[Axesor]

 

1 hour ago, DarkSn4ke said:

33 active forum members voted. so "people" decided that devs gotta change the game? 

If you have a problem with discussions, maybe you should stop participating in them, and avoid the whole feedback section next time, becouse its full of ideas, and suggestions, and opinions.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Axesor

[Sn4ke]

Okay, if you're taking me that serious..

Think we're just talking past each other but thats due to 100% opposite views on the mining subject.

As you've posted: you won't even discuss with the current mining system supporters.

But... please don't think that I think of any one else as an idiot. That's plain wrong. Just as you I took my chance to state my opinion [even explained them..]

@j0g32 yeah, discussion is getting out of hand so Sire opened another topic. It's still ok to discuss different viewpoints here.

EDIT: hehe, by editing your post @Axesor you won't get away from the initial statement

Edited November 24, 2016 by DarkSn4ke