possible to reskin so it can be launched on steam?

[Nielsen]

I can't believe I never played it... it looks really good to be honest, proper objectives and side objectives etc per map. It's like superior ren+ BF 2 or something.

[testman]

I played it long time ago, and MP was mostly dead already back then.

It's more of a Battlefield than RenX, since there is absolutely no economy. You just wait for vehicle to spawn in your base.

There were some turrets/cannons that could be constructed (well airdroped) by certain classes.

I may have been doing some heresy in the recent past and suggested FPS/RTS mode on Unreal Tournament forums:

https://forums.unrealtournament.com/sho ... -game-mode

Idea(s) in that thread are not exactly same ones than in this thread, but I think that if you were to make RenX-like game in Unreal Engine 4 or any other engine, it would be better to make a mod/game mode for existing game than starting from scratch.

You could contact dudes who made Lambda Wars and work with them to add the multiplayer FPS aspect into the game, since it wouldn't be much work and there you have it, Half Life themed FPS/RTS hybrid.

Some time ago I also considered reskinning RenX for Steam to be valid solution, but I don't think so any more.

Mostly because I think that some of arguments in this thread are a bit false.

You should not expect EA to play fair. I don't think that saying "they won't sue because reskin doesn't infringe C&C IP" would even matter because their army of lawyers (they probably have more lawyers than game developers by now) would be able to find some bullshit legal argument to C&D you as soon as reskin would get a bit popular.

I would draw two final conclusions:

1. It would be better for RenX to raise awareness than forking it. So go help Redline with his Youtube promotion project.

2. There is still potential for new FPS/RTS games/mods, it would be good if they were mechanically different from RenX, so that playerbase would not get unnecesarly split among 2 or more versions of same game.

[HaTe]

EA generally C&D's when they have direct incentive to. The only apparent valid reason for them to do it to Ren X (if it did ever violate the agreement) is because they don't want people upset with their payment and associating the game with EA. Mass distribution like Steam is similar; they just don't want it associated with them if anything did go terribly wrong.

If a reskinned FPS RTS game is not associated with Renegade or C&C at all and remains a completely free game, they really have no incentive to pay the legal fees to C&D, even with a push to steam greenlight.

[Axesor]

Damn that Lambda Wars looks cool. I see they have mixed half life 2 with company of heroes. I just wonder how did they get it on steam. Maybe Valve aren't that big assholes as EA is and so they've allowed them to move it on steam as a free game.

Must agree with every single word you wrote, Testman.

Simple reskining would not help to get project game 2 into the steam. We may keep similar gameplay, FPS style with strong RTS elements, but that must be complete unique game and I ve already outlined that in what I wrote before.

[Xtractor]

I did also came into ETQW like with Renegade in the drop down period ..Id never been in the glorious days of renegade with many many server running

But the time id play it I was addicted.

Id start playing video games with things like Warcraft and starcraft but now im not reallly no more in the top view type games .Im FPS at ground level

Testman there is some true saying that a second game might split the players base but How much the second game would gain been on STEAM and Renx might stay into the incertainity..unless its gain some players also knowing it by the second game

and im with HATE saying this below

If a reskinned FPS RTS game is not associated with Renegade or C&C at all and remains a completely free game, they really have no incentive to pay the legal fees to C&D, even with a push to steam greenlight.

[Xtractor]

I can't believe I never played it... it looks really good to be honest, proper objectives and side objectives etc per map. It's like superior ren+ BF 2 or something.

But compare to Renx now its looks old but for me it was what was closer to renegade at the time and was fun

[HaTe]

Simple reskining would not help to get project game 2 into the steam. We may keep similar gameplay, FPS style with strong RTS elements, but that must be complete unique game and I ve already outlined that in what I wrote before

At this point when I say "reskinned" I'm referring to reskinning, remodeling, and renaming anything that has ties to C&C and/or Renegade, as I've stated in my earlier post

[RoundShades]

TL;DR: Don't be in too great a hurry to aspire to change things just to make it bigger or better, just work to make it cleaner and more popular instead, it would be a better investment for a more manageable workload.

Honestly, i'd say they might have a legal fight still yet if they were to reskin (you can sue anyone for any claim), and albeit it would be entirely winnable, to fight it legally in the first place against an opponent with superior legal representation and monetary capital, might still be undesirable. The community could gofundme the legal cost and IF it won then a counterclaim could even be an option, but win or lose, would it be worth it? Would the proposed cost be within the communities budget? How much per person would it be on average? I wouldn't blame the devs, even in spite of a reskinned game and offer of funds, to back down from a lawsuit. Honestly, I know I would.

Just a muse about what sort of thoughts this can conjure. Probably why it isn't a high priority.

You know, besides the "lack of assets" which is a very real deal. There are only so many capable and experienced-enough model artists and such, getting any single piece of anything costs volunteer man hours. Unless you have a whole bucket of that laying around somewhere, you might need to first somehow acquire it, in order to actually do this.

I can do really rough-neck models, mostly placeholder, and I can make minimaps when I am not having a rough week around my birthday getting drunk and goofing off (I should have honestly expected this, I get withdrawn every year my birthday comes around). I am about to do the latter for 1-3 maps right now, so we definitely need more people than "RypeL, Yosh, Agent, Havoc98, Kenz3001, Kil, HappyConscript, Neilson, and community mappers". We have maybe 1/3 the manpower we would need, to get it done in 2 years, assuming 3x as many people as we had now, promised 2 years worth of work. It isn't so bad, how much work has Ren-X accumulated, probably 2x the current group, some more skilled perhaps, and 6 years or more of piecemeal manpower? Just the reality of the situation. Ren-X is real good right now, some of you have no idea how much of a miracle it is to put "effort" into something and get a "resulting product", it is a lot less of a "vending machine" and a lot more of a "crane game", it takes some skill but even then you sink way more effort into way less winnings unless you have at least a little luck on your side.

It was more or less, putting in a 100 credit token, the only 100 credit token these group of guys on the dev team had, all into one slot machine, for one pull of the lever, and getting a modest 1200 from it.

We have something here, to show that they had skill and luck, and we as a community just have to be reasonable with how we manage it. Some community members are trying to build youtube listings, some branch out to other games which is good to gain word-of-mouth, this isn't going anywhere or up and disappear overnight, so meanwhile it just needs humble sustainability and less soothsaying it's demise.

[Xtractor]

When SD did Etqw they took as one of the source of inspiration ..Renegade .

They didnt worry about it because they knew they would make something different.

What Im saying is until you unstick with c&c stuff from EA your are at Risk. anydays EA could change their mind and say .

Enought ! and stop using anything from C&C universe as templates.

I encourage anyone out there to look for doing a new Game that as similiraties of renegade and etqw without using c&c stuff like any Games studio would do .

And go STEAM without any restrictions.

And I quote fobby in this video

or Start from scratch but dont use existant games as Base ..it can inspired you but dont used them.

Thats all !

[HaTe]

Again, EA pays legal fees and wages if they are to order a Cease a Desist. They would only do so if they have real incentive. If the game is completely separated from C&C and Renegade then the only similiarity between the games would be the game mode. Which they do not own at all.

Renegade X started in 2007 (black dawn at least I believe). The developers wanted a big constant player base. That currently isn't the case, and unless we get real lucky and manage to receive the hype we had come original public beta release, those numbers aren't going to increase a ton.

Not only that but steam offers a bunch of tools that would improve the game as well. Steam (voice) chat overlay, better security, huge established userbase, nice smooth interface, etc.

Command and Conquer and Renegade have done all they can do for this game already. Very very few players are still coming to try the game out now because of the nostalgia factor. All this is doing at this point is handicapping us from mass distribution.

[RoundShades]

They always can though. It costs something, but they have a permanent legal team on payroll. They also know from contact with Totem Arts, that the game was made as a project called Renegade X and from previous versions can bring code into court to show how identical the code is aside from models changing.

Not saying it can't be done. Just saying it might not be the best priority right now. Especially unless someone feels like forming a team to do some of the appearance changes (all that needs changed really, appearances and names). After that, I am more than sure RypeL and Havoc would be all aboard helping with it.

[Agent]

can bring code into court to show how identical the code is aside from models changing.

The source code in Renegade-X belongs solely to the people who wrote it -- nobody else, including EA. Therefore, identical code would absolutely never be an issue. Absolutely no source code is taken from EA.

[HaTe]

Yeah, the only reason an agreement exists with them right now is because they own the copyright to Renegade and Command and Conquer. Renegade X uses those and so needs permission from EA. The theoretical newly reskinned game wouldn't use those and so EA has no real copyright claim.

[Henk]

To get back on copyrighting certain game mechanics:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/273935/Texas_court_affirms_game_mechanics_not_protected_under_copyright_law.php

Like I tought, as long as the mechanic is not called command & conquer mode it should be safe.

[Xtractor]

To get back on copyrighting certain game mechanics:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/273935/Texas_court_affirms_game_mechanics_not_protected_under_copyright_law.php

Like I tought, as long as the mechanic is not called command & conquer mode it should be safe.

Nice find Henk

[RoundShades]

Then there's this which is happening lately. No clue why Ren-X is so dangerous with this being on Steam.

http://screenrant.com/star-wars-battlef ... &view=list

[Profane Pagan]

I have wanted to ask, but does EA have a written, and published legal policy on modding? And modding on third party engine, like UDK, which has nothing to do with EA? It would be good know their official standpoint. I was trying to find one, without luck. The only one is their Command and Conquer Ultimate EULA, but I didn't find anything useful about the usage of their universe on a different game engine, which has nothing to do with EA.

[Henk]

Then there's this which is happening lately. No clue why Ren-X is so dangerous with this being on Steam.

http://screenrant.com/star-wars-battlef ... &view=list

Yeah I saw that one too, wonder if it will be taken off Steam, or better, when. It would be strange if they would allow the use of that IP, which is actually active and making them tons of money at the moment, but not allow the use of the C&C IP.

[Xtractor]

I still  think RenX should very slowly get its own identity ..By renaming obvious c&c stuff ..

look this game again

 

Edited October 27, 2016 by Xtractor

[Madkill40]

To 'reskin' Renegade (bye bye original Ren based maps), the buildings would have to change, all vehicles in shape would have to change, their names change, character name changes, the tiberium changes and so on, then you could release it on Steam for free leaving EA unable to prosecute. If you charge money to get the game then there could still be issues because moneymoneymoney.

I don't see re-branding Renegade-X as a practical solution as a way of getting more players, the word 'Beta' is a bigger issue for some players so there's still a publicity push there but that should come after there are enough new maps to play in order to tackle the "Too repetitive" issue, these seem like bigger and more practical solutions. 

 

Beyond these two issues there is an undesirable issue with the attitude of the current playerbase. 

Players trying to learn the game cannot learn the game properly when buildings die within 5 minutes, telling a new player who is trying to learn how to play Renegade-X to go play by themselves on Skirmish is douchey, to assume every player knows what they're doing clearly gets the better of the more experienced players, all experienced players could do with being accommodating to the less-experienced players. (i.e. Don't base kill on Marathon until 15 minutes have passed and give advice on what to do OR play on the AOW server so new players know that Marathon is a 'safer' environment) This could expand the playerbase a bit more.

Typically, whilst the newbie players are tanking it out the experienced players are just infiltrating and destroying the left and right of a base by complete surprise, every once in a while this is fine but every game? I miss the eventual pushes of old Ren.

Another issue with the attitude of the current playerbase are the EU players' attitude.

EU players should quit bitching and whining when the USA players want to move to the USA server around 1am(GMT), EU players refusing to cooperate hurt the Renegade X playerbase, you're isolating the American players who, funnily enough, don't want to play with a high ping -all the time- A USA Prime time focus by filling the USA server after 1am(GMT+0) could be done if the EU players migrated to the USA server, this would at least keep Renegade X consistently played for longer than 7 hours a day and might even expand the playerbase a bit more.

 

TL:DR

As much as I enjoy a good bash on EA to assume the most time-consuming task would increase the playerbase is impractical, there's no certain way of knowing that it would work, it is even more impractical to avoid easier and less time-consuming methods beforehand.

1. The word 'Beta'; How long until Renegade X can stop being a Beta?
2. New maps for less repetitive games, should come before removing the word 'Beta'
3. Filling USA server after 1am(GMT+0)
4. [Temporarily] AOW Servers should be 'Hardcore' whilst Marathon servers should be 'Casual'

Edited October 28, 2016 by Madkill40

[Agent]

I'm just going to lock this thread. It isn't happening.