Bring back internal pre-b4 Field

[DoctorB0NG]

In the pre-release build of B4, the walls from the ref entrance were removed as well as the barracks/airstrip walls.

For some unknown reason the walls were added back to the refs but still removed from the bar/airstrip. I think the walls should be removed from the ref tunnel entrances again. Thoughts?

[Madkill40]

You can wall hop if you want to,

you can leave your friend behind,

cause when you hop that wall

you can get yourself inside,

and kill that ref from behind.

Wall is useless pls remove.

[Legolas]

The wall is trash.

[Redline]

Any other tweaks field needs?

[Redline]

Any other tweaks field needs?

[Bananas]

A lot. Needs a major overhaul, or just accept it is pretty bad and make other maps.

[Redline]

I say rotate barracks 180. Rotate airstrip too. Make an additional infantry path from bunkers to hon/wf doors. I personally like the singular vehicle path but feel infantry needs more ability to sneak.

[yosh56]

...just accept it is pretty bad and make other maps.

[RoundShades]

You can wall hop if you want to,

you can leave your friend behind,

cause when you hop that wall

you can get yourself inside,

and kill that ref from behind.

Wall is useless pls remove.

Actually, the route ahead, fixes walls to be unhoppable. As in, add blocking volume to side-step on ref non-silo side, and raises height of wall on silo-side.

Ambiguous hopping skills, are irrelevant to good gameplay, but honestly, I am working unofficially on Under, and want to do Field too but have less "ideas" to fix it. Just making buildings open up to infantry paths, is a good idea, but not enough, as vehicle combat is campy and ineffective, both need fixed. I have few ideas to fix the campyness of vehicle combat, for Under knocking a hole in the rockwall leading to hilltop was great, but Field has no such idea from what I see.

[kenz3001]

remove ob / agt all problems solved no more bitching about field plays like shit... or add a pp thats easy to hit...

im not doing it im doing enuff mapping right now...

if you think you can fix it carry on some one took time to do goldrush... field should be the next community project

[Ryz]

Can we do a few 'playtests' with different versions of Field again? Main problem isn't the field for me, but the fact that you have to camp the 'upper plateau' inside the tunnels to block both ones. On a usually match of field up to 8 snipers are camping the tunnel. A third different inf. path would have a lot. Changing the block at ref can also help, but you need to get through the tunnels first...

[epicelite]

...just accept it is pretty bad and make other maps.

[Redline]

If a map takes on avg 100-200 hrs to create fully. Why wouldn't we spend an additional 2-5 hrs to fix some gameplay issues.

There are always limits of course, but honestly I could fix half of fields issues in 30 minutes. I'll take a look at it when I'm done with Cliffside.

[Gaysha]

Main problem isn't the field for me, but the fact that you have to camp the 'upper plateau' inside the tunnels to block both ones. On a usually match of field up to 8 snipers are camping the tunnel. A third different inf. path would have a lot.

How about something like this? A connector between airtunn and barrtunn which has stairs in the middle of it, these stairs could go down to a new tunnel which leads to the bridge in field. It would create 2 more options for backstabbing top of tunnel, and spread the congestion in tunnels out a little bit in general. It would lower the threshold for infantry moving into and feeling comfortable in field since there is now a decent escape path by bridge. More importantly: You could no longer protect strip/barr at the same time as you are protecting field. Field is the map for supersnipers because there is only really one location that matters. Waterfall gives you line of sight straight down the middle of the map, you will know and see every single enemy before they are halfway to your base.

Another problem is that the map is split in two between vehicles and infantry. The top left part of the map really needs some stuff so that infantry can feel abit more safe and support their vehicles more easily. Top waterfall simply dominates field too much, its like king of the hill really and you dont need a team-effort to win, just some good snipers.. there should be another strong position on the opposite side of the map, paths to both bunkers from their bases, something.

Infantry doesnt want to help in field because they have nowhere to hide or run to once enemy snipers grab waterfall, what happens then is that the fight mainly revolves around waterfall or outside the line of sight of waterfall. Like the entrances. Waterfall.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Guest

[XD_ERROR_XD]

In the pre-release build of B4, the walls from the ref entrance were removed as well as the barracks/airstrip walls.

For some unknown reason the walls were added back to the refs but still removed from the bar/airstrip. I think the walls should be removed from the ref tunnel entrances again. Thoughts?

I am honestly surprised at how my points made in a year old video are still relevant:

bwxPHkhBAyM

Watch it. All the way through. The only point that actually got fixed was the bugged Obelisk, so you can skip 1:07 - 2:16.

If you do not want to watch the video, to explain why your suggestion actually makes no sense:

Sneaking in Renegade X currently does not require skill. sneaking in the original did. Many aspects that the original had, have been removed.

Firstly, Renegade X mainly relies on chokepoints that lead to building entrances, just like the original. However, if this chokepoint leads to very easily accessible buildings, this will lead to increased activity in these tunnels by both teams. More people will go through them to infiltrate those buildings, while defending their own ones, same for the opposite team.

However, even though having crowded tunnels makes it nearly impossible to "sneak in, undetected". there is a catch. If it was not crowded and you could get to the other side of a tunnel, a chokepoint is very easily defended by a vehicle, again rendering them useless. This is my second point.

The effects of this can be reduced by placing the tunnel entrances in more remote locations, which brings me to my third point. There is a reason why Glacier_Flying in the original often had games decided by infiltration. The entrances were part of a large base, and were mainly put at the edge of the base, or not even in the base at all. there was also more than one tunnel, so that Sakura or Havoc camping could not haunt you at every possible tunnel entrance by simply changing location in the same tunnel. Some of the methods were even incredibly hard to pull off, in fact, they were so difficult or hard to come up with that i was the only person in the game at some point to even attempt it. They were only known by some of the most seasoned people in the game.

Now have you watched my video yet? If you have, you might understand why i would really want to see the blind spots increased on advanced base defences. Oh my god, these buildings get so annoying at times. Also, i did not even mention this at my video, but did you know that the AGT actually fires missiles from 2 different points? This makes hiding behind lanterns impossible in Renegade X when facing the AGT (yes, i actually did this in the original).

TL;DR: No, don't make infiltration easier. In fact, they should be made much, MUCH harder.

[RypeL]

Made a new thread for AGT/Ob balance suggestions: viewtopic.php?f=169&t=76129&p=159665#p159665

[HaTe]

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=71085&hilit=Field

I made an argument about the lack of quality on Field even before the game came out lol. Granted my argument was moreso about the inequality between factions on the map in the original game, however. The main point still remains though...the map was purely a bad design for anything over a 5v5, even in the original (though it was the most fun and skill-based 1v1 map). We tried re-designing it multiple times in the original, and even had some fan-maps trying to make it better. In the end though, it was just a dumb design for a map in the game.

It was made in Ren-X because of the "nostalgia factor" more than anything. Now that that is mostly irrelevant at this point...it honestly would not be a bad idea to scrap it entirely. It has ran its course.

And yeah, I was Anonymously. And yeah, I've been afk forever now (sorry, real life shit that became unavoidable).

[yosh56]

https://renegade-x.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=71085&hilit=Field

I made an argument about the lack of quality on Field even before the game came out lol. Granted my argument was moreso about the inequality between factions on the map in the original game, however. The main point still remains though...the map was purely a bad design for anything over a 5v5, even in the original (though it was the most fun and skill-based 1v1 map). We tried re-designing it multiple times in the original, and even had some fan-maps trying to make it better. In the end though, it was just a dumb design for a map in the game.

It was made in Ren-X because of the "nostalgia factor" more than anything. Now that that is mostly irrelevant at this point...it honestly would not be a bad idea to scrap it entirely. It has ran its course.

And yeah, I was Anonymously. And yeah, I've been afk forever now (sorry, real life shit that became unavoidable).

..........................................................................

HaTe? Only reason I clicked on this topic

[Ryz]

Hope you can sort out the real life stuff so we can see you here more often

[HaTe]

https://renegade-x.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=71085&hilit=Field

I made an argument about the lack of quality on Field even before the game came out lol. Granted my argument was moreso about the inequality between factions on the map in the original game, however. The main point still remains though...the map was purely a bad design for anything over a 5v5, even in the original (though it was the most fun and skill-based 1v1 map). We tried re-designing it multiple times in the original, and even had some fan-maps trying to make it better. In the end though, it was just a dumb design for a map in the game.

It was made in Ren-X because of the "nostalgia factor" more than anything. Now that that is mostly irrelevant at this point...it honestly would not be a bad idea to scrap it entirely. It has ran its course.

And yeah, I was Anonymously. And yeah, I've been afk forever now (sorry, real life shit that became unavoidable).

..........................................................................

HaTe? Only reason I clicked on this topic

Yeah mate, long time. Have been real busy and unfortunately it doesn't seem as if things will slow down much in the near future. I'd love to come back if they do though

[RoundShades]

Would love to see you around again. 11/10.

[XD_ERROR_XD]

Hehehe, didn't expect to see HaTe coming back here. I've re-read the topic and i must say that you make some solid points. Too bad i'm not as much of a fan of vehicle combat in RenX than in the original... The vehicles feel so bouncy, as if i'm driving an old MRLS at double speed, with only half the weight.

Anyways, have a good one!

[djlaptop]

the map was purely a bad design for anything over a 5v5, even in the original

I think this is the crux of the problem right here. Field in 5v5 is actually quite fun. The problem is that the bases are so fortified and isolated from each other that when you're playing 20v20 there's simply no/few opportunities to penetrate them. You're far more likely to be killed on the way to the enemy base than by the base defenses or once inside.