CNC-Siege

[BlackHand1337]

Hey folks,

first I'm new to the UDK and still learning with a little help of kenz video series which most of us know.

I played a lot of Renegade back in the days and most of our all beloved maps are back, but one of my favourites was always CNC-Siege which I remember as one hell of a map, although it could just be the nostalgia, anyways I decided to rack up some UDK knowledge and try to build it myself.

Its now day 2 of my project and I got the basics done. I think im making good progress here and I decided to make it public here to hear some opinions on my progress so far and maybe gather some ideas here.

I'm thinking of altering the map a little to feature maybe a silo or two, but I'm still unsure of that.

I want to rebuild it as exactly as I can, but since its my first map I know it won't be a 1:1 rebuild(guess I'll call it CNC-Siege Redux/V2 then), so why not adding some Renegade X features.

Here are some pictures.

Topview

Sideview'ish with shadows (didnt put any lightnings but the directional light so far)

Sideview'ish w/o shadows

Nodbase

GDIbase

Topview again, but with plans and ideas for the map

I still have some problems with the making of the tunnels and the bridge featured on this map.

The bridge thats visible on the screenshots is just a placeholder to have a better orientation.

I'll focus on the landscape for now and continue watching the video series to learn some more, maybe that will automatically solve the tunnel and bridge problem, we'll see.

I'll keep you updated and would appreciate any feedback given.

[Redline]

1. Go to your renx game folder.

2. Copy all maps

3. Paste in UDK Renx Map folder

4. Open the maps from the UDK folder. Copy bridges, partial bunkers, and other structures from maps already made.

5. Alter them to your liking

6. Profit

Fastest way to rapidly develop complex structures and map features.

[RoundShades]

You've done quite a neat job here from the looks of things, I can definitely see this becoming an included map, and love when people help make nice things for us. Just make sure it's balanced, roomy on vehicle fronts, complex enough in corridors and enough openings on infantry paths, and all that good stuff. Especially Nod to GDI gameplay-wise in equal advantages, and just overall a map that neither implodes instantly for either team nor stalemates for hours.

For instance, I know these are sort of big changes, but if it doesn't work as-is, tweaks to balance could include:

-Moving Oblesk and AGT more center of the base to cover middle and side paths.

-Widening the central vehicle path for side-by-side tank action.

-Adjusting sharpness of terrain hilly height, because you underestimate just how much arc Artillery have, they can prob hit WF or Ref from their own wide/narrow vehicle path entrances.

-Swapping the HON and AirTower, or alternatively flip the Tarmac, to reduce jeopardy for just-purchased Nod vehicles.

-Adding LOTS of webby rocks to infantry path, so 1 guard can't take down anyone traversing it in a defensive stance, rather it takes dividing up mines between two openings that converge, or it takes more manpower to cover two forked infantry entrances.

-Flipping the direction of the PP, so the doors are on the blind-side of the Obby/AGT, or even 90 degree rotate so the doors are reachable from the infantry path even if you can't dilly dolly, whichever one makes more sense after a test-play

-Another reason to flip HoN, is it looks like GDI at wide-path has LOS of HoN, Strip, AND Ref (could be mistaken). Swapping HoN and AirTower, puts HoN only in LoS of narrow path, and only places 2 structures in LoS of wide path without taking Obby-Fire. This would make it equal to GDI, which only have WF and Ref on wide-path LOS, and Bar and Ref on narrow-path. (Don't get me wrong though, this is already so much better than Under, where only 1 vehicle opening per team, GDI has LOS on Air and Ref, while Nod has ONLY WF and a much narrower opening to work with)

[DoctorB0NG]

I like dis so much

[TK0104]

Check out my tutorial to get ren models in udk when you need it

[Henk]

I like the colour of the terrain, it's a desert style but it looks different from Walls, Canyon & Eyes.

However it does look like you've blended multiple textures over each other, and one of them is tiling a lot, and the other is stretched a lot.

If the scale is too smale you'll see the tiling, of the scaling is too big it will usually look pixelated.

[SMayhew]

I like the look of this!

[kenz3001]

this was a fun map in old ren ... looking forward to playing thins in RenX

[Ruud033]

This is looking sick! Im really looking forward to playing this!!

If you need help on some subjects make sure you keep posting in this topic, there are enough people to help you out with some stuff or to guide you through a process /workflow of doing stuff.

[RoundShades]

I am glad so many others like this too. It would be nice to have just 1 other base defense map besides C&C_OneLaneStalemate Copyright: Yosh

[Henk]

I am glad so many others like this too. It would be nice to have just 1 other base defense map besides C&C_OneLaneStalemate Copyright: Yosh

There's Goldrush too

[RoundShades]

I am glad so many others like this too. It would be nice to have just 1 other base defense map besides C&C_OneLaneStalemate Copyright: Yosh

There's Goldrush too

Yuh there is Goldrush AND MesaII, to be fair those maps are a lot better than people give credit, yet we still play Field and Under every damn time it's voted...

[BlackHand1337]

Heya, just wanted to show a lifesign,

I couldnt work alot this week on this map, but im tiptoeing forward.

Thanks for all the feedback, here are some things I had the time to allready look into:

Moving Oblesk and AGT more center of the base to cover middle and side paths.

I moved them a little, especially because I worked alot on the base entrances with an eye on LOS entering the bases. But I guess it will come down to first tests to the if the position fits, but I'm far from that.

Widening the central vehicle path for side-by-side tank action.

Still working on the general choke size, since I'm still in the rebuilding and figuring things out phase. But I'll keep that in mind

Adjusting sharpness of terrain hilly height, because you underestimate just how much arc Artillery have, they can prob hit WF or Ref from their own wide/narrow vehicle path entrances.

Couldnt believe it until I tested it, but I was actually able to hit AGT/WF from Nod Base. Added some height and keeping it in mind for the rest of the map.

Adding LOTS of webby rocks to infantry path, so 1 guard can't take down anyone traversing it in a defensive stance, rather it takes dividing up mines between two openings that converge, or it takes more manpower to cover two forked infantry entrances.

Will do that, but I'll focus on the vehicle paths for now.

Flipping the direction of the PP, so the doors are on the blind-side of the Obby/AGT, or even 90 degree rotate so the doors are reachable from the infantry path even if you can't dilly dolly, whichever one makes more sense after a test-play

Really good idea. In the original it was only possible to place a beacon at pp, but you couldnt enter the PP on neither Nod or GDI side. Thats a thing for my to-do

Swapping the HON and AirTower, or alternatively flip the Tarmac, to reduce jeopardy for just-purchased Nod vehicles

Not sure of this at the moment, it looked like it'll work out, since it allready did in the original. But I'll go deeper on that topic the next quote

Another reason to flip HoN, is it looks like GDI at wide-path has LOS of HoN, Strip, AND Ref (could be mistaken). Swapping HoN and AirTower, puts HoN only in LoS of narrow path, and only places 2 structures in LoS of wide path without taking Obby-Fire. This would make it equal to GDI, which only have WF and Ref on wide-path LOS, and Bar and Ref on narrow-path. (Don't get me wrong though, this is already so much better than Under, where only 1 vehicle opening per team, GDI has LOS on Air and Ref, while Nod has ONLY WF and a much narrower opening to work with)

The LOS for entering bases is right now:

Top-Path: GDI on Nod LOS Hand/Strip(Tower); Nod on GDI LOS WF/Ref

Middle Path: GDI on Nod LOS Bar/WF/Ref; Nod on GDI LOS Strip/HON/Ref

I need to compare it again with the original, need to be sure that it was like that in the original. But swapping HoN and Strip will still be an option.

However it does look like you've blended multiple textures over each other, and one of them is tiling a lot, and the other is stretched a lot.

There was an error with my LinearInterpolate, its working now and looking a lot better . Didnt work much on it but the matertialbug, but heres a screenshot for a difference. http://imgur.com/Bp6lXCW

This is looking sick! Im really looking forward to playing this!!

If you need help on some subjects make sure you keep posting in this topic, there are enough people to help you out with some stuff or to guide you through a process /workflow of doing stuff.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind

Thanks again for the help guys.

[RoundShades]

Thanks for you having hours of your life to do this.

Also, if you are sure about your LOS, then it's perfectly fine. Looks like a 54% win-rate Nod map if all of that is considered, which is honestly good since it is quite easily a GDI land-war map. I give it Nod-tipped only because Nod actually has "options", which compared to Under is something they have absolutely nothing of the sort.

I want to rebuild it as exactly as I can, but since its my first map I know it won't be a 1:1 rebuild

Also this. If you wanted to have a layout of the old map, to do detailed placement, find the old map, either get GMax or 3dsmax, and get it imported (youtube videos exist, some of them linked in this site somewhere), and export it to fbx or whatever you can get to import into UDK. Then, upscale it exactly 20% because Ren-X size and sprint speed differences (or place a structure in the map and make old ref fit new ref).

This is already good if you want to wing a remake, just showing how textureless models of old maps W3D geometry are entirely possible to import to use as shapes to build atop of.

[Ruud033]

This is already good if you want to wing a remake, just showing how textureless models of old maps W3D geometry are entirely possible to import to use as shapes to build atop of.

I think it's just better to only have a couple of screenshots as reference instead of re-filling a mesh (basically)

The CNC-Ren gameplay is a lot different from RenX, thats why I'd just not refer to much to the old map.

[BlackHand1337]

I think it's just better to only have a couple of screenshots as reference

Thats pretty much what I'm doing right now.

I got a new copy of renegade on origin and I'm checking the map out ingame.

By now I think its better take the original as an guide but to rebuild it 1:1. There are a lot of little things that can be done better than the original. Not the best but the fastest example I can come up with is: in original CNC-Siege the GDI PP and Ref are so close, you can easily place a nuke between and send them to hell.

[TK0104]

I think it's just better to only have a couple of screenshots as reference

Thats pretty much what I'm doing right now.

I got a new copy of renegade on origin and I'm checking the map out ingame.

By now I think its better take the original as an guide but to rebuild it 1:1. There are a lot of little things that can be done better than the original. Not the best but the fastest example I can come up with is: in original CNC-Siege the GDI PP and Ref are so close, you can easily place a nuke between and send them to hell.

If you watch my tutorial you can get the map in udk and remake it (then you know where to put stuff in)

-H4MPB6DVdc

I will put a file with the scale size I use when I'm re-making a map

[RoundShades]

This is already good if you want to wing a remake, just showing how textureless models of old maps W3D geometry are entirely possible to import to use as shapes to build atop of.

I think it's just better to only have a couple of screenshots as reference instead of re-filling a mesh (basically)

The CNC-Ren gameplay is a lot different from RenX, thats why I'd just not refer to much to the old map.

I prefer starting with what Thommy showed me before is possible, but using it as shape yet not identical.

For starters it needs 20% increase to work with sprint anyway.

Even besides that, I also recommended to make multiple break-offs on the infantry paths so it can't be bottlenecked and defended by a single sniper aiming down the path. As well as rotating the PP to make the doors more accessible like they are in Under (under needed so much more than that though).

It can be identical to the original, in every way that doesn't cripple gameplay. If a change benefits gameplay, then change it, but so far the base layout itself is fine, the field layout is fine, and the LOS of buildings open to tank-fire should be fine if you really can't hit the Nod Ref from safety on the wide path. Especially since WF is open on one side, and HoN is open from the same side, and Nod has HoN and Air both open on same side, but Nod has multiple paths they can likely make use of Stanks and Flamers as well as functional infantry openings so they have 100% use of their utilities like they should. Therefore, this looks like a GDI groundwar map that is in Nod's favor slightly just because it allows Nod full use of their strategic arsenal. Basically, it is like a large version of Complex with a totally different layout.

[TheDeadlyWolf]

Yes, another favourite of mine : D

Looking good so far, Can't wait to play - Arty Party!

[Ruud033]

So how's progress? I'd like to see this map soon!

[BlackHand1337]

Heya,

little lifesign here, the project is not dead .

I've made a bit of progress, but had less time since the last post because I had to learn.

Im going to have my midterm exam next wednesday. After I've written the exam theres more time again .

I guess I'll get some more progress screenshots ready by the next weekend.

Sorry to keep you waiting

[RoundShades]

Anything you need to learn interactively, just ask me. However, learning from a serious video crunch, Kenz3001 and various other people (thenewboston) have decent videos to comprehend UDK function.

Lot of knick knacks and nodes and camels and apples and other tedious shit to populate a map with, so I understand the time consumption.

[Ruud033]

So what happend? It's been a while. New SDK is out, I'd say go for it!

[Ruud033]

Did this project die? It seemed so promising!

[TK0104]

3 hours ago, Ruud033 said:

Did this project die? It seemed so promising!

The map is only available on MPF downloads. But dunno if theres any progress

[Sn4ke]

the mapper is probably too busy with streaming on Twitch (sometimes RenX [BHC server] for 10-60 people)

[RoundShades]

I used to stream Twitch, and then went from map-making, to video-edits, to MegaMaker (Megaman map-making). I know the routine, some people are just passerby's. No shame in that, did love Siege though.

[BlackHand1337]

Another lifesign here, since people are asking whats happening with Siege, and tbh it was quite a time the last time I posted an update.
Siege ist not dead, its still a project I want to complete, but due to data loss it was paused. I could recover all data required for continuation, but I didn't have the time since. But I'm planning to continue around september.

[Luhrian]

I don't know, if someone already said that, but you should watch, that the buildings are not so close to another building, to prevent double bulding kills with beacons.