GDI Grenadier buff

[Axesor]

This character seriously needs some kind of buff. There is nothing he is really good at. He is weak againts any infantry, he is weak againts vehicles. Explosion radius and damage is very low. The only thing he is really good at is damaging buildings.

I suggest increase explosion radius 2.5x and increase base damage juuuuuust a little bit.

Primary and secondary fire also could have different effects:

Primary fire: explosion on contact, low explosion radius (as it is now) but good againts vehicles

Secondary fire: delayed explosion, 2.5x bigger explosion radius, more damage againts infantry but very low againts vehicles (becouse it's shooting splinter grenades and it's not very good vs vehicles or something like that..)

+decrease rate of fire up to 1.5s

This changes would make from him very specialised unit for different opportunities.

Any different thoughts?

[testman]

I absolutely agree that it needs buff.

From what I understand, it should be somewhat counterpart to Nod's flamethrower.

From my experience, I can cook people and vehicles very effectively, but can't do much with grenade launcher.

Grenades should be very effective in tunnels, but with current splash damage it's like I'm shooting cherry bombs and not grenades.

[Henk]

Agree it could use a bit more power, I barely use it.

Now we're talking about the Grenadier: The game overall has good sounds, but the shooting sound of the Grenadier could be better, and louder in my opinion. It sounds a bit weak I think.

[Mystic~]

Good call.

I only ever use the Grenadier class reluctantly if I have to destroy something with heavy armor and I don't have any other options and by this point, game over is usually imminent. The flamethrower kills and damages infantry much more effectively and does a lot of damage to an MCT given the opportunity.

[Axesor]

Ye, I hope we don't get nerfed flame soldier now instead.

+1 Henk about sound effect.

[RoundShades]

I was able to kill a HoN on Islands, with just 2 grenadiers early game. Just walked in, 2 timed c4, and at 9 seconds just started whailing on MCT. The difference is, Grenadiers can do damage to outside of building. They actually do decent damage to infantry and tanks. I truly don't know what you are talking about.

[Axesor]

I belive you that grenadier can do nice damage to the building but this ability is hardly used in practice if there is playing more ppl on the server.

Grenadier can do some damage if he hits somebody directly which is almost impossible. Explosion damage and radius is just a joke.-I am also asking for removing explosion on contact with vehc or player in secondary fire in my suggestion. He would have to use different tactics in fights.

I know this is just a free infantry but he deserves some care too.

[RoundShades]

He can kill in a clip if you shoot for the feet. Situational, as autorifle can kill faster than a grenadier's clip, but grenadier can damage groups in tunnels and can kite corners while still getting damage.

[Axesor]

5-10% if you shoot directly under legs. Explosion radius is ridiculous.. It's funny to imagine situation in which would grenadier hit at least 2 targets in 1 shot.

[RoundShades]

In masses in tunnels, especially around corners and along hills, you can hit 2-3 fairly reliably, and can always hit at least 1, and can hit them without being open to bullets yourself.

My only problem with Grenadier, is merely a bug rather than balance. This right here...

viewtopic.php?f=122&p=157811#p157811

[djlaptop]

The grenadier does indeed have the advantage of being able to attack buildings from the outside, but that is on par with the Nod flame trooper. I may be mistaken in this assumption, but in my mind the grenadier is supposed to be the unit that balances the flame trooper out.

The grenade launcher is a difficult weapon to master because of the arc that the grenades travel on. It's like first-person Angry Birds. While the grenades deal significant damage, even against large vehicles it can be tricky to make impact while they're moving. Against infantry it's damn near impossible to get a direct hit. Nod's flamethrower, on the other hand, has such a wide spread that you just have to fire in the general direction and you're pretty much guaranteed to do some damage.

When taking on any sort of infantry unit the grenadier is far better off switching to the pistol. If the explosion radius of the grenade was increased that would at least give a grenadier a chance against any sort of infantry resistance.

[RoundShades]

I was under the assumption, Nod has a flamethrower that is decent on close-ish range infantry and has flak armor, but is inferior so they get a speed advantage... and GDI has a grenadier that has slightly less damage on infantry, the safety from attacking farther and around corners, much superior damage against vehicles, and longer range but less speed.

Flamethrower does as much to vehicles, as Grenadier does to infantry. Flamethrower does more to infantry, Grenadier definitely does more to outside of buildings and vehicles. It isn't as hard to hit either, just have to lead the shot a bit, and tanks can't swerve out the way enough to miss a grenade that was actually aimed to hit it.

[Axesor]

So you are okay with grenadier as he is right now? You think he don't deserve any care, no bigger specialisation? Becouse in infantry fights and his antitank abilities are just joke and I never took grenadier as a serious threat or any kind of effective support.

[Profane Pagan]

I never took grenadier as a serious threat or any kind of effective support.

True that. I am glad when I encounter a grenadier. Regardless of my loadout I mow them down, then I collect my points. Like squishing a bug. Except when I am a grenadier.

[RoundShades]

I am about to start recording again, just to record my grenadier abuse. I even used it today and had no trouble. Someone else was complaining it was getting hit markers against soldiers but not doing any real damage, I don't know if it is server-simulated...

...but I both helped trash a PP on Training Yard as well as a Turret early-game, despite enemy engis and a marksman, and it trashes early harvester every match. It doesn't work as a direct-engagement, no, but neither do flametroops at distant bumrushes or shotgunners across a field. If anything, grenadier is much more effective than a shotgunner, and situationally more effective than a riflemen.

[Terekhov]

So tl;dr use it for the wrong thing / don't practice with it and you're going to have a bad time, but do one of those (or both) and it's not bad. Is it actually broken / needing adjustment?