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has Renx got to the point of team stacking


rytlock
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Honestly, TMX feels like its pub stomping at times, willingly or not. One side with voice chat and a few specific serious players -vs- a team of people that never even reacts when a building goes down. Those games kind of completely suck.

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Not everyone likes losing and dying a lot of times and some mildly-experienced to veterans sometimes get so serious about the game, calling them 'n00b', 'idiot' and the likes when something goes horribly wrong while the FNG mentally questions what he did wrong

It's quite inevitable

Also, does server encourage chatting as well? I know they encourage TS (which I don't have the equipment to), but not everyone knows TS

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Honestly, TMX feels like its pub stomping at times, willingly or not. One side with voice chat and a few specific serious players -vs- a team of people that never even reacts when a building goes down. Those games kind of completely suck.

Would be hilarious if the moderators from irc or whatever intentionally moved people.

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TMX usually just plays whatever teams the game puts us on. Right now it just feels like beta 4 doesn't mix teams as well as 2-3, so people that do end up on the same team have a pretty high likelihood of ending up with the same people over and over. He, once we have more than about 5 people, we usually switch into individual team TS channels anyway.

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this was one of my several ideas back over a year ago (several of the others have been implemented):

6. (Originally suggested by Goztow and Stealtheye - edited a bit for my preference). Team sorting algorithm. This may be quite complicated for some people to understand, but it is both possible and effective. The algorithm is for when a map ends and the next one begins (sorting teams). When the map ends, the server looks at 2 qualifications specifically: 1. The clan tag of the player; and 2. The place (rank) the player ended up based on his score at the end of the last match. Such that: Players with the same clan tag (using (), [], {}) will get put on the same team, so long as the number of these players does not exceed 20% of the overall players in-game. If the number of players in one specific clan in-game does exceed 20% of the overall players in-game, the members of that clan will be distributed evenly into the 2 teams using the algorithm for qualification #2. That algorithm would be: (*changes when clan members are present so long as they are under 20% of overall players) Players 1,4,6,8,10,12,14,16, etc. go to team #1. Players 2,3,5,7,9,11,13,15, etc. go to team #2. If one or more clans are present in-game and are under 20% of the overall players, they are put onto the same team. This is used to try and put friends together, whilst keeping a decent balance between the 2 teams.

So, lets for example use this random made up list of players sorted by score of the last map:

1. (TiF)Brem

2. Rikl

3. Terim

4. (Kom)Tim

5. (TiF)Holi

6. (TiF)Brett

7. Himoi

8. Loitle

9. (TiF)Rolx

10. (Kom)Anth

11. Nilme

12. Rethom

13. (TiF) Retrob

14. (Kom)Tibim

15. Coty

16. (TiF)Golum

As you can see, the clan (TiF) exceeds 20% of the overall players. The clan (Kom) does not, however. So, the team sorting would be as such:

Team 1:

1. (Kom)Tim

2. (Kom)Anth

3. (Kom)Tibim

4. (TiF)Brem

5. (TiF)Rolx

6. (TiF)Golum

7. Terim

8. Himoi

Team 2:

1. (TiF)Holi

2. (TiF)Brett

3. (TiF)Retrob

4. Rikl

5. Loitle

6. Nilme

7. Rethom

8. Coty

This puts the clan under 20% all together. The clan over 20% gets split in half based on the same algorithm used for normal players (1,4,6 - 2,3,5). The rest of the normal players then follow the regular algorithm whilst keeping the team player count even. So team 1 would need 2 more normal players to fill up their roster, while team 2 would need 5. Since team 1 has a full clan squad, team 2 gets the bid for the #1 normal player. So team 2 then gets 1,4,5,6,7 to fill up their 8 person roster. Team 1 gets 2 and 3 to fill up their roster.

Obviously clans aren't nearly as popular as they were, so that part could be revised if need be. The points part is the key

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I can understand your issue with the team stacking; however, I typically play Renegade X with my friends and if the server/server admins scramble us after finally getting on the same team, that is going to be a huge turn off for me. As for newer players this kind of functionality could be a deal breaker for them as well if they cannot easily play with friends. Just throwing in my 2 cents . Take it as you will.

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I can understand your issue with the team stacking; however, I typically play Renegade X with my friends and if the server/server admins scramble us after finally getting on the same team, that is going to be a huge turn off for me. As for newer players this kind of functionality could be a deal breaker for them as well if they cannot easily play with friends. Just throwing in my 2 cents . Take it as you will.

Original Renegade's server bots were able to process players requesting team change.

Really, there is a middle ground. In his case for instance, 2-5 players even, would be able to get on the same team reliably. 2-4 players would never be too big an advantage together with the rest of the randoms in a game. Any other 2-4 man team would also be seperated so the first 2-4 man has an opposing 2-4 man.

The only thing you COULDN'T do, is make 8-12 man teams reliably together, in which case you put your big boy pants on and concede to spare against them in even divisions of 4 a team. Any mass of players that big should be willing to divide up for the sake of quality control.

Any other game I play, if I play with experienced friends matched with inexperienced players, I divide us up and we each play with a few scrubs on our teams, so we both have the same handicap and it's roughly even.

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You guys should read my clan tag suggestion above. If you want to play with your friends, you can have them just throw on a tag that is the same as yours. As long as you guys don't exceed 20% of the overall players in game, then you'd be paired into the same team. If you do exceed that 20%, then you are split up equally into the two teams (for a full 40 person server this would be any tag having 8 or more players in game). Again, that's an end-game team sorting algorithm only.

That was my original idea over a year ago, and I still say that it would work effectively.

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Teamstacking is hardly gamebreaking though :P on EKT server with EKT members, I tried to do that. Team up in TS with just 4-5 people and "work together", well, it doesnt always work as well as intended :P Not saying EKT is a bad clan, we just had a great time on TS without actually teaming up to completely overrun the other team.

Besides, the community is small, so everyone is kinda getting to know eachother by now. Recognizing player names and their quality during the initial first couple minutes will give you an idea of the team's overall chances of winning.

I just know that when facing certain players (like Yosh), they will try and get a spy to infiltrate the enemy base. I keep an eye out for that.

Others I know of will ALWAYS try and keep on trying to infiltrate as a hotwire on non-defensive maps like Walls.

Then there is Silent Knight. Whenever he's on my team, I feel completely save to leave the base for couple minutes, without fear of losing any buildings. He's pro at defending. When we both are defending, the other team has 0% chance of infiltrating.

These things are noticable without the clantags by just knowing the player and his usual tactics.

Me e.g. I usually join Nod and defend the base with SBH+carbine, to counter hotwire and spy infiltrations.

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Me e.g. I usually join Nod and defend the base with SBH+carbine, to counter hotwire and spy infiltrations.

Ah, another defender. Glad to know I'm not truly alone.

What sucks is when our team is full of good attackers and managed to keep the enemies at bay without us moving a single finger at all, just aimlessly patrolling at base and stayed on the bottom end of the score list.

I don't mind scores myself though

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Team stacking is a problem, but most of the time its NOT intentional. You NEVER know how well a team will do by looking at a few of its players.

I got a new insult today I've never had in any game, I was called a "fucking vet" from having a super high score with super high K/D. I don't understand, this is the ONLY era of online gaming where players will get mad at others for being more experienced than them, instead of adapting and sort of emulating the good players? I notice a lot of NOD players just ragequit because SBH tactics rarely work now, so they won't even adapt to the current "meta-game".

If you really want to prevent team stacking, just make the game shuffle the teams after the warm up. This will kill friend groups though, which kinda sucks, but shuffling will be the best way to prevent intentional stacking. Lucky/unlucky shuffles are another story.

Just play the game and try your best (even improve!).

Me e.g. I usually join Nod and defend the base with SBH+carbine, to counter hotwire and spy infiltrations.

Ah, another defender. Glad to know I'm not truly alone.

What sucks is when our team is full of good attackers and managed to keep the enemies at bay without us moving a single finger at all, just aimlessly patrolling at base and stayed on the bottom end of the score list.

I don't mind scores myself though

You have a low score because you're not actually doing anything. Defenders usually have the highest score, but only proper defense (repairing vehicles, defusing beacons, and repairing buildings). When you have a low score, maybe you don't need to do such heavy defense anymore?

This is off topic, but think about it and there's no need to reply.

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Me e.g. I usually join Nod and defend the base with SBH+carbine, to counter hotwire and spy infiltrations.

Ah, another defender. Glad to know I'm not truly alone.

What sucks is when our team is full of good attackers and managed to keep the enemies at bay without us moving a single finger at all, just aimlessly patrolling at base and stayed on the bottom end of the score list.

I don't mind scores myself though

You have a low score because you're not actually doing anything. Defenders usually have the highest score, but only proper defense (repairing vehicles, defusing beacons, and repairing buildings). When you have a low score, maybe you don't need to do such heavy defense anymore?

This is off topic, but think about it and there's no need to reply.

Here is where you are wrong Gatsu.

There is this off-chance of a single hotwire able to penetrate the Nod offense, able to sneak into the Nod base (or trying to)

It is against those players me, Silent Knight and Handepsilon are defending mostly. It can be most disturbing and off-putting when a single hotwire manages to sneak passed the front lines, only to down a single Nod structure, questioning the current tactics from the Nod front line. In essence, scattering the offensive.

To prevent that, you NEED atleast 1 or 2 designated defenders, even when you are seemingly idle or not helpful, you are helping by disallowing that single infiltrator to pass.

This is even more true now, since maps are a bit redesigned to have multiple paths to attack from. It's also a multitude of paths to infiltrate from.

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Me e.g. I usually join Nod and defend the base with SBH+carbine, to counter hotwire and spy infiltrations.

Ah, another defender. Glad to know I'm not truly alone.

What sucks is when our team is full of good attackers and managed to keep the enemies at bay without us moving a single finger at all, just aimlessly patrolling at base and stayed on the bottom end of the score list.

I don't mind scores myself though

You have a low score because you're not actually doing anything. Defenders usually have the highest score, but only proper defense (repairing vehicles, defusing beacons, and repairing buildings). When you have a low score, maybe you don't need to do such heavy defense anymore?

This is off topic, but think about it and there's no need to reply.

I know. How am I supposed to do anything if my opposing team are not competent enough to slip someone in the base in a map called... Under?

Sure, maybe I don't need to defend, but it's better than messing up rushes with my far worse incompetence in attacking

My preferred tactics are usually just patrolling with APC, sometimes blocking choke points and be a lookout for beacons. So yeah, this just makes a little dilemma. But I always keep in mind the thought of the need of patroller that can't be hit by snipers and other light-armor wreckers. Especially on Field tunnels. Sometimes Sakura just likes to pop in

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Some people just like to play police officer. Don't judge them. Especially when you be all in your room, door locked, playing pretty pink princess.

Honestly, no matter what situation he decides to do that, I wouldn't mind him wandering around the base. I might think more of him if he decided to mass rush grenadier with us if we were down to 2 structures a team and at a balls hard stalemate.

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I know. How am I supposed to do anything if my opposing team are not competent enough to slip someone in the base in a map called... Under?

Sure, maybe I don't need to defend, but it's better than messing up rushes with my far worse incompetence in attacking

My preferred tactics are usually just patrolling with APC, sometimes blocking choke points and be a lookout for beacons. So yeah, this just makes a little dilemma. But I always keep in mind the thought of the need of patroller that can't be hit by snipers and other light-armor wreckers. Especially on Field tunnels. Sometimes Sakura just likes to pop in

Its funny, people can frown upon defenders, and then everytime I get out, even on Under, nobody ever notices that guy slipping in and blowing up the PP.

That guy that keeps himself around base all the time is the one that keeps the game from instantly ending by 1 guy that slips through.

Which happens

ALL

THE

TIME

So yeah. I can get a low score sometimes yet stop a solo-duo or even trio-infiltrators (trio-sbh, more commonly) by myself, especially if I have the lead on proximity mining, stopping even a dozen game-ending infiltration a game when they actually are trying them.

Its much more needed in non-defense maps for sure but I still think 1 last-line defender in any map is very important.

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Its funny, people can frown upon defenders, and then everytime I get out, even on Under, nobody ever notices that guy slipping in and blowing up the PP.

That guy that keeps himself around base all the time is the one that keeps the game from instantly ending by 1 guy that slips through.

Which happens

ALL

THE

TIME

So yeah. I can get a low score sometimes yet stop a solo-duo or even trio-infiltrators (trio-sbh, more commonly) by myself, especially if I have the lead on proximity mining, stopping even a dozen game-ending infiltration a game when they actually are trying them.

Its much more needed in non-defense maps for sure but I still think 1 last-line defender in any map is very important.

I totally agree. It's just too bad that some people (like Gatsufox) think it to be unhelpful because you dont actively help the attack. I always wonder if people with that opinion ever played a real RTS game. Taking out all forces out of your base to attack, without leaving any defense. Later finding out you are getting ass-raped because your base is undefended.

That 1 last defender is important on ALL maps. Non defense maps for obvious reasons, but with active base defense, there is this thing called a spy.

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Honestly, TMX feels like its pub stomping at times, willingly or not. One side with voice chat and a few specific serious players -vs- a team of people that never even reacts when a building goes down. Those games kind of completely suck.

We've had a thread or two where this is mentioned on the TMX forums. Ive started swapping teams several times during certain games that seem unfair only to have it turn around completely AGAIN.. for the 2nd or 3rd time. Its very difficult to judge how likely one side is to win sometimes. (Also, theres always that guy who says that the teams are unfair when hes losing.)

Anyway i wanted to say that its mostly not intentional. We dont have that attitude in our teamspeak to my experience. Mayyybe on some inebriated evenings we innocently forget about it but thats it. Everyone wants a good game and a complete steamroll just isnt much fun, nobody is really for team-stacking.

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like Gatsufox

Now don't be like that. Sure some people doesn't appreciate us and relies just a tad too much on defense comprising only on mines. But we really have no need to call names. Just keep the forum friendly

I always wonder if people with that opinion ever played a real RTS game. Taking out all forces out of your base to attack, without leaving any defense

Unless you play WC3. When shit gets real, just Scroll to Town Portal back to base :P

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like Gatsufox

Now don't be like that. Sure some people doesn't appreciate us and relies just a tad too much on defense comprising only on mines. But we really have no need to call names. Just keep the forum friendly

I always wonder if people with that opinion ever played a real RTS game. Taking out all forces out of your base to attack, without leaving any defense

Unless you play WC3. When shit gets real, just Scroll to Town Portal back to base :P

I didnt say he doesnt appreciate us much, I just refer to his post and it's demeanor. Defenders do get less points for actually defending. We DO get loads of points when we are under siege through repairing, but other than that, killing solo infantry trying to sneak in the base just doesnt yield points.

Oh and WC3 ... yeah lol, skirmish and MP only tho

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I can see giving more veterancy for killing infantry that is in base, by the same check that checks beacon spam currently. I like the idea of veterancy, and more veterancy for kills on enemy engineers in repair distance of enemy tanks, and I can agree with the same veterancy increase for killing enemy infiltrators. Regular kills give regular veterancy, repairing a base under siege gives some, shelling one gives credits but no veterancy, shelling a base still gives opportunities for killing enemy, enemy vehicles, and such, that reward veterancy, but you have to actively do so while shelling.

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