Your top five most wanted balance changes

[RypeL]

Top five changes that come to mind.

RypeL:

• Make stealth tank more usefull. Maybe by increasing its damage
  
• Make shotgun less efficient at range. Maybe by increasing the spread
  
• Reduce credit income from damaging and repairing by 20%
  
• Give more points for killing infantry while beeing infantry
  
• Move tib silos further away from the main vehicle paths on maps like lakeside,field,canyon

[RoundShades]

>>Stealth tank, buff good, prefer range to damage, old ren stank could shoot entrance to war factory

>>Shotgun, 40 damage the length of island tunnel, needs less maximum reach and more spread.

>>Game needs less creds, old ren had less creds, structure repair and damage is a good start.

>>3x more points/creds for killing infantry would still be small, vehicles should get reward for kills too

>>Silo locations are fine, consider putting the MCT more enclosed, like a ladder leading down to a room, or taller with longer stairs leading up just so it is too high for vehicles to shoot.

We were also discussing:

>>Officers possibly OP, need spread for misses and/or 1/2 the damage to light vehicles

>>Grenadiers can hit across mesa cave, need slightly slower projectile or fast projectile that arcs more.

>>Mines are black. Old ren was bright. RenX is dark. Mines need yellow caution striping (faded dark yellow, not really really really bright yellow)

Edited April 2, 2015 by Guest

[RypeL]

please no walls of text. just your points pls.

[RoundShades]

please no walls of text. just your points pls.

Revised down to basically what I was trying to say.

[boxes]

In order

-Reduce Silo income to +1

-Reduce Orca/Apache health to 350

-Adjust how a Destroyed PP affects OB/AGT, decrease fire rate by 100% on AGT, Increase charge time on OB by 100%?

-Slightly increase sidearm prices

Heavy Pistol - 100

Carbine - 175

Flechette - 275

Tib Autorifle - 275

-Decrease range and Increase spread on Officer Chaingun

-Increase Volt Rifle Alt Fire bullet speed

-Slightly increase Light tank speed

-Increase Gunner Building damage slightly

-Decrease Grenadier building damage slightly

[yosh56]

>Think about revising the sidearm system so we don't have SBH's and Engineers being CQC specialists.

> Increased Chinook health (or decreased Orca/Apache health, as these units don't make much sense with congruent health)

> Increase Gunner's damage to buildings so that he does a solid 10%-12% in a magazine, as opposed to this 9.x% BS that leaves him worse off than the Rocket soldier

> Increase LCG magazine size to 150, as the new spread means a lot more shots miss just because of RNG, even if your aim was on point. It also helps emphasize the LCG being worth more than the Chaingun

> Chaingun could probably do to have its magazine brought back down from 200 to 100-150. It's good, but right now it's a better choice for owning the tunnels than the LCG, and it kills Light vehicles faster than the LCG, only because its magazine forces it to reload. Damage wise I think they're both alright.

[HaTe]

1. Reduce bodyshot damage for automatic weapons. Too rewarding for new players.

2. Make mines more visible

3. Vet system needed asap. It'll fix so many complaints. Sidearm system, vehicle drop system, credit inbalance, etc. All fixed by one universal system that gives a secondary economical income.

4. Fix vehicle physics. Too flimsy. Turning shouldn't be exaggerated like it is neither. They need to be more "clunkier," for gameplay purposes.

5. Fix points system. Killing units needs to be more points (especially infantry), so that whoring buildings or repairing isn't the only way to get to the top of the scoreboard.

[Glacious]

Increase Stealth Tank Damage.

Decrease Officer/Chaingun Damage or add bullet spread.

Revise Credits - To easy to amount large amount of credits, main point a destroyed refinery shouldn't give credits imo.

Revise Vehicle Drop's - At the moment it makes it almost pointless destroying the Airstrip/Weapons Factory as to easy and quick to get replacement tanks etc

More Credits for killing Infantry.

[Highlink]

First off thanks a ton for this game. It's amazing what Totem Arts has done here.

-Increase Stank range.

-Reduce the health or repair speed of the Orca/Apache to keep them from effectively being able to spawn camp a team when they gain critical mass.

-Increase Gunner damage to buildings.

-Nerf sidearms on Engineers/Tech/Hottie (Not sure what the best way to to this is).

-Increase points for killing infantry and vehicles to dissuade base entrance camping and increase effect of power plays in the field.

[Lt.Hargrove]

1. Disable purchaseable sidearms for engineer/hotwire/technician.

2. Buff stank vs vehicles

3. Revert psysics changes on APC and tone down Humvee/Buggy changes by a bit (while less controllabe, scout vehs surely "fast and furious" better)

4. Decrease Apache/Orca HP so rocket soldier will take 1 less missile to destroy it

5. Revert flamethrower vs buildings nerf.

[Ryz]

1) Timer on airdrops / server option to make them only available after X minutes

2) Reverse changes to PP and Ref after destroyed, or 'nerve' this

3) Nerve chemsprayer

4) Increase points for killing infantery

5) Increase points / credits for repairing vehicles

[Canucck]

>>Game needs less creds, old ren had less creds, structure repair and damage is a good start.

No, active credit gain is what everyone should want. It's passive credit gain that's way too high. Silos and dead refs give ridiculous amounts of credits.

[RoundShades]

>>Game needs less creds, old ren had less creds, structure repair and damage is a good start.

No, active credit gain is what everyone should want. It's passive credit gain that's way too high. Silos and dead refs give ridiculous amounts of credits.

Well, actually, it depends.

Credits in general, are too high. 8 minutes in the game, you are well enough funded that if you lose something, you can fund yourself fairly comfortably for the rest of the game.

Passive credits, are too high, so they should be reduced. I would start by making credit ticks twice as long perhaps, and giving 3 credits a tick instead. Then, the dead ref gives 1 cred a tick, twice as long, and the silos give 1 cred a tick, twice as long.

Active credits, well let's be honest, base attack/repair is NOT active. At least, you do it for a minute or two, you have 3000 credits. No, you should have 1500 credits at most. Whatever base attack credits are now should be reduced at least slightly, at least 20%-25%.

Now, active credits in the sense of kills, killing infantry should give more credits. As a high-end example, a 1k gives 100, a 400 gives 60, free infantry gives 20. I destroyed a mrls earlier, it gave 60 points. A mrls is equivalent in cost to a laser chaingunner. vehicles are harder to kill generally though, so I also wouldn't mind vehicles giving a little more, like a mrls is 100 instead in that example.

I'd rather do it that way, rather than your sources of credits, being a significantly large steady income, a harvester, and milking it from the health of structures. Currently the harvester is fine, if passive income was turned down then the harvester is a big enough perk to keep alive as a lack of harvester income would actually keep a team ill-equipped. I have not felt underequipped the entire time I played RenX despite 6/10 games my team doesn't have field and thus is not recieving any harvester love.

[sterps]

1) Slight buff to Stealth Tank speed and range. Greatly improve rocket accuracy. Do not buff damage, rockets do enough damage.

2) Nerf apache or buff orca, to bring orca on par with the apache

3) Nerf Chem warrior damage

4)Fix Mammoth Tank 'not firing bug'

5) Optimise vehicle physics to not be as touchy.

[RypeL]

Thx for your contributions thus far. It helps to get an overview of the most pressing balance issues and i hope there will be balance patches soon.

[RokumanZA]

1- less credits from silo/dead ref

2- officer chaingun slight rof decrease/not hitscan (if you think it won't cause any performance loss)

3- stank improvement in missle accuracy and possibly range

4- fixed splach damage for farland etc.

5- chinook gun debuff

Edited April 5, 2015 by Guest

[HaTe]

If a game chases away bad players because they aren't being rewarded for being bad, then they should stick to skirmish mode. Besides, if you look at the vet system post, you get the points for such things as repairing vehicles and buildings, disarming nukes/ions, and disarming mines. All things noobs can do that they'd be rewarded for. Skilled players would just likely get more for accomplishing specific feats. It's no different than the credit system in that. The difference is that it is all "active," so that you don't just casually earn them as the game goes on. Also makes it separate from credits, so that the winning team doesn't get more of an advantage because they likely have more credits. The more skilled team would get the VP advantage.

You're the first person to say they are against this, but I don't think you read the topic thoroughly enough is all. Rype has already confirmed that it will be added, also.

[yosh56]

4- chinook gun debuff

No. Seriously, it takes 3 people to get it to a stage of being powerful... don't deny one of the only things that builds team-play.

Also, as much as I usually disagree with Hate, I also think it doesn't sound like you read or comprehended that topic very well at all. Credits already give better players access to better things faster anyway, so it really wouldn't change anything.

[HaTe]

Disagreeing with logic from an experienced player is a normal renegade player attribute, so don't think I take offense to it

[RoundShades]

Disagreeing with logic from an experienced player is a normal renegade player attribute, so don't think I take offense to it

Normally, I would think you are talking down to someone. But considering it's Yosh, I think you both are at the top of the game pretending each other are little kids.

I understand why Rokuman is worried, but really you guys are right. What he doesn't understand, is that the VP system really just limits access to things early game, and then grants their access by putting in hard work. Now, that hard work isn't "elite", in Renegade Classic they made it sound like you were a war hero for getting them but really most the people with veterancy weren't war heroes but people who put in 15 minutes straight of vehicle and/or base repair and were comphensated for it.

Rokuman, think of it this way: Veterancy will mostly reward repairing and diffusing and capping the silo. It hopefully might reward kills on enemy engineers repairing armor or structures and enemy infantry with 3 or more enemy kills in the same life or enemies within proximity to the silo. It hopefully will reward mildly basic kills, and spotting enemies, and maybe more if you spotted an enemy that results in a kill. It hopefully will not reward "just shelling a base" or at least at a lower gain. In this regard, it can be considered an anti-snowball mechanic, as a team building a score/credit advantage through structure-milking is negatively building up an imbalance against themselves in Veterancy. They have ways to marginalize this, by actually killing a structure, minimizing their own losses, covering their defense as a lot of winning teams even forget about the silo right beside them in the field.

Since crates are becoming "jungling" rewards, rewards gotten by patrolling the field in their capture and can be collected even by a losing team because a winning team is all piled up at a base entrance and isn't actively inside the field, they might should also reward some veterancy or at least have a chance at rewarding veterancy.

[RypeL]

i hope this doesent get too off topic...

[yosh56]

i hope this doesent get too off topic...

I won't let it.

Also +1 for Gunner/McFarland/Grenadier having self splash damage.

[RoundShades]

i hope this doesent get too off topic...

I won't let it.

Also +1 for Gunner/McFarland/Grenadier having self splash damage.

I would I'm real bad about that.

I too +1 self-splash. That in Unreal had to be an intentional setting, why on earth was that made!?!

[SFJake]

I'm guessing it was an oversight.

+1 for self splash damage for those weapons.

[HaTe]

Agreed with that. McFarland also needs a Nerf too, quite clearly. Ideally rof as they can spam those things wayyyy too fast for how useful they are.

[RoundShades]

Agreed with that. McFarland also needs a Nerf too, quite clearly. Ideally rof as they can spam those things wayyyy too fast for how useful they are.

Mcfarland? He doesn't do a whole lot of damage. I would still say he is UP considering he is incapable of ending a fight rather fast, if it wasn't for his utility to spam from safety.

Humor me, how many shots from his splash nade does it take to kill a free infantry? I got into a fight with a 500 sniper, and it felt like the shotgun did half the damage of an actual shotgunner, and the splash nade did 1/7th of his health all real close hits. I was still suprised by how short the splash range is, it is far enough but just barely. Given his price, I would be satisfied if it stayed as is but not as much if nerfed. Actually, I sort of like his anti air damage with his hitscan shotgun, that is kind of powerful and maybe should be not hitscan.

[RokumanZA]

If a game chases away bad players because they aren't being rewarded for being bad, then they should stick to skirmish mode. Besides, if you look at the vet system post, you get the points for such things as repairing vehicles and buildings, disarming nukes/ions, and disarming mines. All things noobs can do that they'd be rewarded for. Skilled players would just likely get more for accomplishing specific feats. It's no different than the credit system in that. The difference is that it is all "active," so that you don't just casually earn them as the game goes on. Also makes it separate from credits, so that the winning team doesn't get more of an advantage because they likely have more credits. The more skilled team would get the VP advantage.

You're the first person to say they are against this, but I don't think you read the topic thoroughly enough is all. Rype has already confirmed that it will be added, also.

perhaps I didn't read it thoroughly enough, I did read it through. Either way will go back and read the thread and comment there if I still see a prob with it lets no go off topic in here

agree with the self-damage here for farland, etc.

1- less credits from silo/dead ref

2- officer chaingun slight rof decrease/not hitscan (if you think it won't cause any performance loss)

3- stank improvement in missle accuracy and possibly range

4- fixed splach damage for farland etc.

5- chinook gun debuff

EDIT: also updated my 5 changes after another look at the topic, I wouldn't mind it if it also supports defending and simple things like repairing vehicles that anyone can do. Point taken off, and I see where you're coming from with this now Hate, I think I want the same thing in the end, no endless spam of support weapons overshadowing some of the base classes that barely see use. You have my support

and as much as I feel like I didn't really get the point of the vet system in that post, rest assured I understand the game and the weapon mechanics. Haven't played at Hate's level, but I do nonetheless

[SFJake]

By the way, am I the only person that fints the Mammoth grossly overpowered and thought he was fine in the old Renegade?

Now its all GDI swarming mammoth tank with their overpowering burst and their -ridiculous- range.

[yosh56]

By the way, am I the only person that fints the Mammoth grossly overpowered and thought he was fine in the old Renegade?

Now its all GDI swarming mammoth tank with their overpowering burst and their -ridiculous- range.

Honestly, that's more of an issue that ties into the economy. Right now GDI players can get 1500 credits with their thumb up their ass doing nothing in base for about 5 minutes. Basically, Mammoths aren't even considered expensive now, so they're just spammable.

Basically a +1 to eco nerf.

[Truxa]

By the way, am I the only person that fints the Mammoth grossly overpowered and thought he was fine in the old Renegade?

Now its all GDI swarming mammoth tank with their overpowering burst and their -ridiculous- range.

Honestly, that's more of an issue that ties into the economy. Right now GDI players can get 1500 credits with their thumb up their ass doing nothing in base for about 5 minutes. Basically, Mammoths aren't even considered expensive now, so they're just spammable.

Basically a +1 to eco nerf.

I agree.

However, if you compare the mammoth's missiles and their main turrent ranges, they seem to be traveling just as far. Whereas in original Ren, the missiles didnt travel as far as the main gun shells were.

I'd say, the mammoth missiles need to be more stealthtank-ish and for Anti Air(perhaps locking), slower travel, doing more damage and having less range.

As it stands, mammoths can shoot from base to base (Complex) with all weapons which is pretty far to me.

They need a range-nerf on missiles aside from the economy nerf.

[sterps]

I agree with Yosh, +1 for eco nerf. Money is too plentiful at the moment.

By the way, am I the only person that fints the Mammoth grossly overpowered and thought he was fine in the old Renegade?

Now its all GDI swarming mammoth tank with their overpowering burst and their -ridiculous- range.

Honestly, that's more of an issue that ties into the economy. Right now GDI players can get 1500 credits with their thumb up their ass doing nothing in base for about 5 minutes. Basically, Mammoths aren't even considered expensive now, so they're just spammable.

Basically a +1 to eco nerf.

I agree.

However, if you compare the mammoth's missiles and their main turrent ranges, they seem to be traveling just as far. Whereas in original Ren, the missiles didnt travel as far as the main gun shells were.

I'd say, the mammoth missiles need to be more stealthtank-ish and for Anti Air(perhaps locking), slower travel, doing more damage and having less range.

As it stands, mammoths can shoot from base to base (Complex) with all weapons which is pretty far to me.

They need a range-nerf on missiles aside from the economy nerf.

This might be the case, but missiles did far more damage in original Renegade, more than their cannons. and I recall that they could shoot their cannons from the exact same place in the original complex as the current version.

Also nerfing the missile range will make the mammy cannon fodder for apaches, which should not be the case, an apache should be cautious when engaging a mammy.

Honestly comparing to the mammy in Renegade is a bad idea, as it was broken, and is why the medium was always preferred over it, and was almost always the better choice.

[HaTe]

^that last sentence is beyond true

I think the fact that its so easy to lock on is part of the reason it is so strong. As I've said before, the middle dot of the reticle should have to target the enemy unit at least for a couple seconds before lock-on

[[JTeK] Josh]

1- Points you get from repairing. You should NOT be getting as many points for repairing as the other team does for hitting the building. (Looks like you get around 80% return.) Should be closer to 50-60%.

2- I'd like to see the beacon notification system revisited. I feel like it's much harder to see and hear when beacons and nukes are placed. Could the notifications not be more static? (Stay on the screen a bit longer.) In the original, when an enemy beacon/nuke was being placed, it clearly overshadowed all other sounds in the game. Now, you get one quick message and a semi-audible notice.

3- Tank angles. If you are at a lower ground level, you can NOT shoot over hills, etc while in tanks. Even if my tank turrent is clearly pointed over the hill, I end up shooting ground in front of the hill. (Most noticeable in art, but that could just be a result of me using arts the most.)

4- Mobius reload issue. If your magazine runs out on the mobius and you don't release the left click, you can waste "ammo." If you keep the button pressed through a reload, the gun will "fire," ammo will be used, but you aren't actually attacking. If you aren't careful, you could waste half of a magazine before you realize you aren't hurting anything.

5- Officer rate of fire. Drop it by 25% if possible. Also drop the magazine size a bit. This should help with all aspects of officer balance.

[epicelite]

In order of how much I'd like to see:

• Make the Stealth Tank missiles more reliable/accurate. (Almost imposable to hit infantry most of the time, and often miss larger targets.)
  
• Nerf sidearm weapons severally.
  
• Vehicle airdrops should only allow the purchase of low-tier vehicles. (Humvee/Buggy, APC, Med Tank/Light Tank)
  
• Disallow some classes from purchasing sidearm weapons. (Engineer/Hottie/Tech, SBH) but give hottie/tech something decent/unique by default, a non-silenced pistol with better stats?
  
• A special purchasable "alarm mine" that will make a lot of noise when set off or a disarm attempt is made (Trip flare?) but deal no damage.

I'm adding a sixth, sue me.

A better points system that rewards more for accomplishing objectives then it does camping. Building destruction should multiply your teams overall score by 50%. 10,000 overall points with 1 enemy building down = 15,000 points for example.

[Canucck]

A special purchasable "alarm mine" that will make a lot of noise when set off or a disarm attempt is made (Trip flare?) but deal no damage.

3D sounds should just be louder in general

[Calvin]

1: The shotgun. It's so op people come at you like sonic and kill you in 1sec.

2: The ramjet. It has always been strong in normal renegade why do we have to change it. Why not put the damage back and make a vet system.. It's not for nothing a 1000char hehe.

3: Mendozas do have some speciall attack now? It almost take 1 hit to kill a havoc or sakura with it. Nerf that for a bit :0

So far i have 3 point but i will add more if i see things

. Only playing since few days now

[RoundShades]

2: The ramjet. It has always been strong in normal renegade why do we have to change it. Why not put the damage back and make a vet system.. It's not for nothing a 1000char hehe.

If we added the vet system, and it gave health to survive ramjet from free class, then it might be okay.

I like it as-is though. Although snipers having 3 mines they can use to exceed the mine limit, or AT mines, or just making ordinance like that a-la-carte purchaseable like emp nades and smoke nades are, would be better explosive ordinance for a sniper. But I always thought that should be completely flexible, in light of how already flexible it is, and in light of tech/hotwire being overused.

[Henk]

My top 5:

1. Reduce Officer Damage

2. Reduce Officer Range

3. Make the Officer & Chaingun Officer, and SBH lasergun louder from a distance (less fallof in audio)

4. Make the Officer non-hitscan

For the sake of variation:

5. Only have Buggy/Humvee, APC, and Artillery/MRLS available when the vehicle factory is destroyed (Yes, this fits into the balancing category)

[cncforever]

1) Make Stealth Tank more powerful vs vehicles and more useful against infantry.

2) Give Nod better Anti air.

3) Make higher level vehicles cost more in Airdrops (rather than removing them as some suggested).

4) Reduce passive credits income.

5) Increase Light Tank speed.

[Axesor]

1. Stealth tank: more acurate, bigger range.

=better antiair + rocket soldiers which are amazing there is no need for more antiair units and Apache/orca dont need nerf at all!

2. Engineer: -more points for repairing vehicles and players

-be able to lock target with altfire. Repair beam link may be broken if you're aiming too far away from the target.

3. Make Nod's assault rifle deal same damage as GDI one. If its not already done.

4. Light tank: increase explosion radius, increase tanks turbo speed

5. Soldiers assault rifle: no projectile travel speed. Instatnt impact.

[I'm Osama]

I agree with first post in same points. So, mine list:

• Reduce credit income from damaging and repairing by 20% 30%;
  
• Give more points for killing infantry while being infantry;
  
• Make Nod vehicles little more useful (now there all shit, only flame tanks can do something);
  
• Make all explosions (like vehicle shells) do much more splash damage to infantry (bcs i can't kill rocket soldier with 10 splash damage shoots, but he can kill my veh with 10 rockets, lmao);
  
• Add shahids to Nod infantry.

[Jack Brace]

My top 5:

1. Weapon (sidearm) upgrades need to be nerved, it's versatility makes infantry like Patch obsolete. Just buy an engi and Carbine instead.

2. Chainguns need either less dmg or more spread, or officer needs to be more expensive.

3. Reduced range on shotguns, and more spread.

4. Increased target lock times for all lock type weapons.

5. Vehicle drops, while fun at times, keep a lost game going for way to long as it stands now.

[RoundShades]

My top 5:

1. Weapon (sidearm) upgrades need to be nerved, it's versatility makes infantry like Patch obsolete. Just buy an engi and Carbine instead.

2. Chainguns need either less dmg or more spread, or officer needs to be more expensive.

3. Reduced range on shotguns, and more spread.

4. Increased target lock times for all lock type weapons.

5. Vehicle drops, while fun at times, keep a lost game going for way to long as it stands now.

I think the longer time it takes to acquire a lock is a fair balance. However, you lose that lock so damn easy. It should stick the lock just a little better than it does now, where a bit of jitter and the guy is still out in the open but loses the lock somehow.

[Radeon3]

1. Revised building loss and Airdrop system or VET system

2. Revised eco system

• Dead ref -> no cred income
  More creds per killed units
  Diminishing point/cred income by constanly sieging the same building (might be motivating to stop stalemate pointwhoring and do actual rushes with it's risks and gains for both teams)
  Lower point gain by repping buildings (66%->50%)
  Increase point/cred income for repping vehicles

3. Units

• Lolficier
  Shotgunner
  LCG
  Gunner
  Self damage by explosions
  Hitbox issues
  Stealth tank
  Vehicle physics reverted to B3 defaults except for air units

4. Mines

• More visible
  Non sticky, affected by gravity -> no more undisarmable mines, flaming units, griefing by putting mines on character heads and MCTs

5. More appreciation to the devs