Ways you can help us keep cheaters away

[Agent]

34 minutes ago, ghjke said:

There are few people who have unrealistically super high scores (example K=66 D=8, i have screenshoot)

That's not at all unrealistic. That's not even impressive. Here's someone who's gotten a far higher kill count just this month: http://leaderboard.renegade-x.com/profile?database=Monthly&id=76561198272283093

34 minutes ago, ghjke said:

not something that makes you 20 times better than others.

You're right -- some people are just better than you.

34 minutes ago, ghjke said:

Also, flowers and "mods" are friends and "mods" protect them.

Breaking news: people have friends.

34 minutes ago, ghjke said:

they usually play snipers, headshots almost everyone

Did it occur to you that some people might play sniper because they're actually good at sniping and just generally have good aim? You should try playing with some of these people on other games, just so you can see how their skills clearly translate across games. Some people are terrifying.

 

This is why most reports are disregarded. The accuser formulates a weak argument and provides zero evidence. Your complaint doesn't meet the burden of proof necessary to act -- we generally require a demo recording in most circumstances that clearly demonstrates cheating in some way. For example, we recently received some screenshots from someone which clearly demonstrate that someone is cheating (shooting through walls), but it doesn't prove who is cheating, and thus we can't use the information in that report. This is why we prefer demo recordings still -- it contains all of the information.

[ghjke]

You just proved that flowers  are protected.

Thank you : D

[Agent]

The entire player base is protected from harassment, yes.

[Guest Gliven]

7 minutes ago, ghjke said:

You just proved that flowers  are protected.

Thank you : D

@ghjkeYou dont want moderators to protect people that arent cheating? Or are you still stuck in your own little world where you think no one is better than you, and if someone kills you therefore they are cheating.

 Also what the hell is with this flower analogy lmao

[limsup]

On 4/11/2017 at 10:46 PM, Gliven said:

 Also what the hell is with this flower analogy lmao

I believe he refers to his suspect's floral-themed avatars  

Regarding the other matter:

First, and foremost I would like to accentuate, that the accusation of someone being a cheater is a very serious matter, on which you really should have some solid evidence! There are some questions, one should ask oneself before making such an allegation, such as the following:
-    According to your observation, what does the suspected player do, that should be impossible under normal circumstances?
-    Is that an actual impossibility, or you simply ASSUME it so, because it surpasses your own- and some of the other player's skillset?
-    Is the suspected cheating observed only by you, or others also see it? If so, did you ask their opinion on the matter?
-    Did you look into the wellspring of knowledge, that is the Forum, for possible precedents?
-    Why would the Moderators tolerate such every day, blatant cheating all these years?
-    Why would the 55-58 other potential players on that server tolerate the Moderators tolerating cheating?
-    Have I played this game long enough, have I OBSERVED the suspect’s modus operandi long enough to come to a definitive conclusion?

Here are some factual things:
-    Some players have an absolutely high-end configuration, with dual- or triple monitors, 144Hz, 4K, $300 top-of-the-line mechanical keyboards, and cutting edge laser mice. Or simply excellent, low-latency fibre-optics. Well now, imagine what that tech could be capable of coupled with outstanding reflexes?
-    Live and learn – here’s a video from one of your probable suspect’s point of view…

The unfounded insinuation of others is plainly unethical.
 

[Jarzey]

44 minutes ago, Gliven said:

@ghjkeOr are you still stuck in your own little world where you think no one is better than you, and if someone kills you therefore they are cheating.

Egocentrism strikes again, dun-dun. Also note how his username was probably typed in a haste: he probably typed the letters g, h, j, k, in rapid succession, considering how a conventional QWERTY keyboard has the aforementioned letters located in close proximity with each other. Of course, judging someone by the username is anything but an efficient way to understand the person, but from the username, I can imply that this person wanted to get his message out fast, just like if he was raging.

 

Pertaining to the subject, there are also people bashing out Ren X in the comment of LavaDragon's first Moments vid (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loLfBvheOWY). One of them states that admin/mods will abuse their powers when they are losing. Of course, without any kind of proof, those statements hold no validity whatsoever.

Only time admins would use their powers is to nuke everyone when the current match has ENDED, or nuke each other (for examples, the occasional nukes on UKill, for reasons unknown to me). Never seen the admins abuse their powers on the playerbase. And I am certainly not one of their favorites.

Alas, people accusing of cheating/hacking are nothing new. The best course of advice would be to ignore the person in question unless they back up their words with reasonable evidence. I guess those kind of people are mainly driven by jealousy or rage. Tried of getting headshotted 24/7? Drive a vehicle, or become a dedicated defender.

Lastly, I also offer some "emotional well-being" advice on the wiki:

Quote

"Maintain your composure and stay focused, especially if a Sniper has killed you plenty of times. Lowering your guard and going berserk in trying to pursue vengeance will probably end up in you being slain by him once more."

Considering how this situation reoccurs quite frequently, I might also add that "going berserk will probably also result in you either wasting time in accusing the sniper of being a cheater, or rage quitting the game and accusing the sniper of being a cheater on the forums".

[Guest Gliven]

5 hours ago, Jarzey said:

Considering how this situation reoccurs quite frequently, I might also add that "going berserk will probably also result in you either wasting time in accusing the sniper of being a cheater, or rage quitting the game and accusing the sniper of being a cheater on the forums".

Also harassing "cheaters" on Teamspeak 

[ghjke]

11 hours ago, ghjke said:

So, say again,  how do you keep cheaters away?

Where is answer?

[yosh56]

30 minutes ago, ghjke said:

Where is answer?

It's been stated several times. 

Provide some sort of proof if you're just going to say someone is cheating. Sometimes it's obvious, like blatant wall hacks and people snap-aiming, and literally !modrequest gets someone's attention since most of the mods are spread out throughout every timezone. More subtle things, like just 'is that person good or not?' is harder to really prove, unless you have some sort of concrete evidence, like videos, or ask for the demo files. Considering the number of fake hackusations going around in a community this small it's impossible to know when somebody's just getting their ass handed to them or legitimate.

A 60-8 KDR isn't instant proof that somebody is hacking. I had to deal with enough hackusations against @Canucck before he just streamed, recorded, then outright played some other more high profile game and had the exact same stupidly high accuracy rating with anything you put in his hand. 

Out of the 4 people that get accused regularly, I'm pretty sure only 2 are actually suspicious, and 2 I know for a fact are actually just really good at aiming. The other 2 are monitored far more than most people know. 

Pretty much anyone who's suspected of aim-botting is monitored pretty heavily, and the demos for that time are usually put aside if the hackusations are grand enough. 

I don't know the mod situation in CT anymore... but I'm probably most likely  to ban people, then if it means that much to them they can rant about it on the forums. 

My answer... Yosh's presence... unless it's somebody that's already monitored and really doesn't exhibit any suspicious behaviour PLUS actively records themselves PLUS streams and has a background of having God aim..  But if it's some other hack other than aimbotting... I already shoot first and ask questions later. Just ask @Tokiyo [Granted he was a special case]

[Jarzey]

46 minutes ago, ghjke said:

Where is answer?

The short version: Go play skirmish mode with the bots. You can easily remove them if you think they are cheating.

 

The shortest version: uninstall and quit the game.

 

The long version:  Step 1 - start by going through these questions first:

11 hours ago, limsup said:

-    According to your observation, what does the suspected player do, that should be impossible under normal circumstances?

-    Is that an actual impossibility, or you simply ASSUME it so, because it surpasses your own-, and some of the other players skillset?
-    Is the suspected cheating observed only by you, or others also see it? If so, did you ask their opinion on the matter?
-    Did you looked into the wellspring of knowledge, that is the Forum, for possible precedents?
-    Why would the Moderators tolerate such every day, blatant cheating all these years?
-    Why would the 55-58 other potential players on that server tolerate the Moderators tolerating cheating?
-    Have I played this game long enough, have I OBSERVED the suspect’s modus operandi long enough to come to a definitive conclusion?

Step 2 - Provide compelling and detailed evidence (like a full-fledged recording, a screenshot of K/D ratio is not enough.) If you fabricate evidence against the cheater, you will probably get banned instead (suffice to say that admins/mods have a way to evaluate the validity of the evidence).

Step 3 - Contact an admin and moderator via pm and send them your evidence.

Step 4 - Await for their response. You will need 100% accurate and honest evidence showing that the player is cheating, otherwise they will probably give the benefit of doubt.

[limsup]

1 hour ago, ghjke said:

Where is answer?

Well I did not intended to get personal, but it seems to me, that you have some issue interpreting the very first post of this thread...

 

On 2014. 03. 17. at 9:59 PM, RypeL said:

The recordings will allow us to watch the game from the cheaters perspective and it will show his IP. This will enable us to:

 

• analyze the cheat and use the info to implement countermeasures and automated detection for the cheat
• put the cheater on our global ban list (IP ban and range IP ban for now but we are also looking into other ways to ban in the future).

 

But that was not your only question, that has been answered multiple times and still you hang on to your own interpretation, throwing accusations at respected, long standing members of the community:

(sorry for inserting these here, imgur was down for maintenance)

Edited April 12, 2017 by limsup

[Calvin]

The funny thing is @ghjke watched my streams before when i played old Renegade and Ren-X i believe. He said he saw wallhack? And i also have multiple video's on youtube which he watched aswell.. He kept harassing me and jpj on teamspeak @Ukill had to move him out because it got pretty annoying and jpj got pretty angry by the things he said too us. I don't know why people think this is going to help their issue by just being a complete total dick too people that are just trying to enjoy the game.. And btw i don't know what else to do for proof that i'm not cheating i showed even my desktop on a livestream before. This guy is probably just trolling all of us for attention but 1 thing im getting tired of is the harassing ingame. At this point i don't even wanna play when they're ingame. Yes it got that bad same goes for @jpjtyld pretty sure. @ghjke Leave us alone pls and go record your poor gameplay and get some proof before harassing us. ~

[limsup]

11 minutes ago, poi ❄ said:

And btw i don't know what else to do for proof that i'm not cheating i showed even my desktop on a livestream before

I do not understand, why should @poi ❄ or any other person he accused have to prove anything?! The ACCUSER is the one, who HAS TO back up his claim with EVIDENCE. Furthermore, if anything, his behavior seems to demonstrate, that he is maleficent.

[Idiotas]

4 hours ago, limsup said:

I do not understand, why should @poi ❄ or any other person he accused have to prove anything?! The ACCUSER is the one, who HAS TO back up his claim with EVIDENCE. 

This.  It's easier to make accusations and get sheeps group up with you. Some people even accuse our CT mods lawl.

I guess the more you whine without proof the more legit it makes??

[Ukill]

I think that people cheat because they are better than me.

 

17 hours ago, limsup said:

-    Why would the 55-58 other potential players on that server tolerate the Moderators tolerating cheating?

When they don't deliver some details/facts, i can only send them to the forum, where the people are that got relative much more experience then i have.

 

5 hours ago, yosh56 said:

Pretty much anyone who's suspected of aim-botting is monitored pretty heavily, and the demos for that time are usually put aside if the hackusations are grand enough.

This is where i count on.

 

4 hours ago, poi ❄ said:

He kept harassing me and jpj on teamspeak @Ukill had to move him out because it got pretty annoying and jpj got pretty angry by the things he said too us. I don't know why people think this is going to help their issue by just being a complete total dick too people that are just trying to enjoy the game.. 

@ghjke did ask if we could go to the channel of @poi ❄ and @jpjtyld channel, that is why i was there too, but the behavior of ghjke was more then just rude. This is why poi and jpjtyld have there own channel on teamspeak now.

 

5 hours ago, Jarzey said:

The short version: Go play skirmish mode with the bots. You can easily remove them if you think they are cheating.

The shortest version: uninstall and quit the game.

The long version:  Step 1 - start by going through these questions first:
 

Step 2 - Provide compelling and detailed evidence (like a full-fledged recording, a screenshot of K/D ratio is not enough.) If you fabricate evidence against the cheater, you will probably get banned instead (suffice to say that admins/mods have a way to evaluate the validity of the evidence).

Step 3 - Contact an admin and moderator via pm and send them your evidence.

Step 4 - Await for their response. You will need 100% accurate and honest evidence showing that the player is cheating, otherwise they will probably give the benefit of doubt.

But sometimes I am totally agree with @Jarzey 

[yosh56]

But on a side note, let's not forget in the first 4 months of RenX's there was a mod for TMX that was found to be hacking, so I don't rule any of you out. 

 

I'll permaban any of you assholes without a second thought... 'cept @DoctorB0NG... 

[Idiotas]

2 hours ago, yosh56 said:

I'll permaban any of you assholes without a second thought... 'cept @DoctorB0NG... 

np, leave @DoctorB0NG to me

[Guest Gliven]

If anyone wants proof that boi and canucck dont cheat...just watch this clip of them having a sniper duel for almost a minute straight. 

[Xeon Wraith]

TL;DR: Salt?

Seems like the only reason this topic got brought back up is due to @ghjke attempts to justify his cognitive dissonance. I don't see anything of value that has been added to this topic.

Laugh and move on?

 

Edit: One could sort of argue this is pretty good example of the lack of counterplay the average player has against good snipers and the frustration from it. But that's whole other can of worms that I don't know enough to talk about.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Xeon Wraith
I thought of a thing. :D

[Ryz]

15 hours ago, yosh56 said:

But on a side note, let's not forget in the first 4 months of RenX's there was a mod for TMX that was found to be hacking, so I don't rule any of you out. 

Makes me curious who that was....

[Calvin]

17 hours ago, yosh56 said:

But on a side note, let's not forget in the first 4 months of RenX's there was a mod for TMX that was found to be hacking, so I don't rule any of you out. 

 

I'll permaban any of you assholes without a second thought... 'cept @DoctorB0NG... 

Im guessing that person did not livestream and put videos on youtube? 

 

[xeb]

this guy already won   

madkill banned deadbeat and me because he is sure that we are cheating so. He already scared 2 ppl away. 

And I played for several years competetive (clanbase.ggl.com - dead since 2013). 

My cousin wanted to come try renx who is a competetive player too and I will not recommend him this game ever.

yours truly,

XEN 

Edited April 13, 2017 by xeb

[KrypTheBear]

1 hour ago, poi ❄ said:

Im guessing that person did not livestream and put videos on youtube? 

 

As much as I'm a fan of people proving their skill via YouTube or Streams, it's rather easy to hide UIs from cheat software and anyone with half a brain could pull that off. 

However, I'm giving everyone the benefit of the doubt. As long as someone is not proven to be a cheater, they aren't. Nobody needs to prove a point. Unless you have decisive evidence against you, you can't be banned. If we detect scripting, cheating, hacking however the hell you call it (e.g. obtaining a weapon which should be unavailable to you - or shooting with inhuman speed with the help of script, which otherwise wouldn't be possible) then you will be punished.

That's just my perspective as a moderator on CT. 

29 minutes ago, xeb said:

this guy already won   

madkill banned deadbeat and me because he is sure that we are cheating so. He already scared 2 ppl away. 

And I played for several years competetive (clanbase.ggl.com - dead since 2013). 

My cousin wanted to come try renx who is a competetive player too and I will not recommend him this game ever.

yours truly,

XEN 

Abandoning a game based on the fact that you've been banned from one server is kind of funny, however understandable since CT is pretty much the only active RenX community. Speaking of which, where did the Dragon clan go? Or MPF? 

[yosh56]

39 minutes ago, xeb said:

this guy already won   

madkill banned deadbeat and me because he is sure that we are cheating so. He already scared 2 ppl away. 

And I played for several years competetive (clanbase.ggl.com - dead since 2013). 

My cousin wanted to come try renx who is a competetive player too and I will not recommend him this game ever.

yours truly,

XEN 

Bye, Felicia. If you're that good and 'competitive', go get paid for it instead of killing off servers. I also wouldn't brag with that many VAC bans under your belt. 

 

9 minutes ago, KrypTheBear said:

As much as I'm a fan of people proving their skill via YouTube or Streams, it's rather easy to hide UIs from cheat software and anyone with half a brain could pull that off. 

^ 

 

1 hour ago, poi ❄ said:

Im guessing that person did not livestream and put videos on youtube? 

 

See above.

 

As far as I'm concerned, it's gone from kicking people for hacking, to banning people on the grounds that they ruin the entire game outside of PUGs where it's expected and generally counterable. Would stand behind @Madkill40's decision.. .even if I still haven't quite figured out if Madkill's crazy or not. 

[xeb]

49 minutes ago, yosh56 said:

Bye, Felicia. If you're that good and 'competitive', go get paid for it instead of killing off servers. I also wouldn't brag with that many VAC bans under your belt.

first of all you don't even know why I even did get Vac'd for and why they are so many (all the same game and family sharing policy ) so I wouldn't talk.

Edited April 13, 2017 by xeb

[yosh56]

What's second of all? 

But really, I'm only going to believe that if I sift through them, which I'm not going to do unless I get really really really bored. 

[Calvin]

People say jpj boxes and me kill the server all the time. pls spare us:( 

btw wouldn't it be better to lock this topic now? it's just going nowhere at this point @yosh56

Edited April 13, 2017 by poi ❄

[OTT]

4 hours ago, Ryz said:

Makes me curious who that was....

the rimias or something like that,he had 3 head shots from 2000 kills if I remember the story correctly

9 minutes ago, poi ❄ said:

People say jpj boxes and me kill the server all the time. pls spare us:( 

btw wouldn't it be better to lock this topic now? it's just going nowhere at this point @yosh56

or delete the post made by ghjke that revived this thread and delete all the posts that followed it

[boxes]

good old renedrama, half the reason why some of us are still playing the game

[Canucck]

Why? It's funny watching people whine

[limsup]

44 minutes ago, Canucck said:

Why? It's funny watching people whine

It depends... Up to a degree (for some) it may very well be so, but these accusations are beyond measure, de facto pathological. In my opinion, there should be some boundaries to this phenomenon.

Edited April 13, 2017 by limsup

[Madkill40]

23 hours ago, xeb said:

yours truly,

XEN 

goku

Ciao~

[xeb]

22 minutes ago, Madkill40 said:

Ciao~

unbanned

[Madkill40]

14 minutes ago, xeb said:

unbanned

Un-Ciao~'d

[CrazyJose]

Since my post was deleted by any mod, where I showed them by an example how easy it is to hook UE and create a D3D aimbot, I lost my faith in the devs that someday would come any anti cheat system...
If no one is willing to handle the leaks UE really has, I'm not willing to handle playing with suspicious players anymore and got smashed every time with the same phrases.
In the long term this game will probably reduce gradually for me...

[Fffreak9999]

It wasn't deleted, just hidden away for now.

[CrazyJose]

44 minutes ago, Fffreak9999 said:

It wasn't deleted, just hidden away for now.

hopefully to get any ideas out of it

 

[Fffreak9999]

Actually to prevent others from doing it

[RypeL]

UE3 can be hacked ? Shocking! ... If you think thats news you failed badly.

[CrazyJose]

2 hours ago, RypeL said:

UE3 can be hacked ? Shocking! ... If you think thats news you failed badly.

it's more failing to know about it, don't do anything to prevent it and let it go as it is...just careless. don't you know how to prevent or is it just ignorance?

Edited April 8, 2018 by CrazyJose

[limsup]

1 minute ago, CrazyJose said:

it's more failing to know about it, don't do anything to prevent it and let it go as it is...just careless

Read your private messages, please.

[RypeL]

It’s impossible to prevent. That’s why demos are watched etc. There’s only so little you can do but you can never prevent all of it. Even the Unreal Tournament games always had cheats from day one. And Unreal Tournament is the game made by Epic who also made the engine. So if they couldn’t protect their own game that should be enough clue for you that we can’t either. And especially since we only have the UDK license and not the full engine license we literary can’t implement our own full anti cheat even if we wanted to. 

Thats why we ask you to notify admins about possible cheaters so that their povs can be watched from demos or spec mode.

[limsup]

3 hours ago, RypeL said:

our own full anti cheat

Emphasis on the "full" part, it does not mean there isn't any measure already in place, nor does it mean that there would not be any advancements in the future regarding that 

[Madkill40]

Should consistent ruin of the games' auto-balance be considered cheating? 

E.g. A player or players near- constantly changing teams just to roflstomp a public game with their mate

Near-constant being deliberately changing teams whenever the game balances you and your friend(s) into separate teams on more than the odd occasion

[Radeon3]

You want to ban a bunch of the people who ruin public games after leaving PUG?

[OTT]

2 hours ago, Radeon3 said:

You want to ban a bunch of the people who ruin public games after leaving PUG?

[Sn4ke]

2 hours ago, Madkill40 said:

Should consistent ruin of the games' auto-balance be considered cheating? 

E.g. A player or players near- constantly changing teams just to roflstomp a public game with their mate

Near-constant being deliberately changing teams whenever the game balances you and your friend(s) into separate teams on more than the odd occasion

that would include... approx. 20-30% of the active player base

[CrazyJose]

On 13.4.2017 at 4:19 PM, bentō said:

People say jpj boxes and me kill the server all the time. pls spare us:( 

was your name in another game (especially Counter Strike) "BOT Hello" or any other of your tag team?

Edited April 10, 2018 by CrazyJose

[JoeBrogan7]

On 4/9/2018 at 1:38 PM, Radeon3 said:

You want to ban a bunch of the people who ruin public games after leaving PUG?

I think that should depend on whether there is intentional team stacking going on or not.

[Sn4ke]

26 minutes ago, ps212 said:

there is intentional team stacking

that