Airstrike

[Truxa]

I've been playing C&C Renegade on Jelly servers (yeah the OLD Ren! you know, the one this game is based upon)

Peek hours of online playerbase were (give or take) 150 during the week, maybe? Weekends obviously a bit more, but Jelly was always one of the most full servers.

Original game did not include the airstrikes, I can see why they added it though. No longer those endless base sieges without progress into the base, or unable to get out of the bases.

Airstrikes are a great asset in that regard and yes, 700 is too low. 2500 is too much, but then again, i like the old-gameplay of the original renegade, apart from the endless sieges ofcourse.

@SFJake I KNOW I've mentioned the above before, so you simple CANNOT say that nothing possitive has been mentioned about airstrikes

And do mind, Renegade is still in Beta, which means, testing is still ONGOING, bugs are present, nerves have to be made, boosts have to be made. The game is not yet finished!

I do long for the revamping of the other original Renegade maps though

[HaTe]

Airstrikes have been nerfed in several ways in the first patch.

[XD_ERROR_XD]

Airstrikes have been nerfed in several ways in the first patch.

Listen to this guy. Please.

[sterps]

Just No. In timed AOW that could possibly maybe slightly have a fraction of truth, but otherwise.

Actually Yes, in timed AOW it is the case. There is plenty of truth to $2500 being too much.

Also please stop trying to degrade this thread with your rubbish images.

We'll just have to wait to see what the changes are, will be interesting to see.

[Savas]

Seriously airstrikes add nothing to the game and is OP? Is this guy for real?

First of all, it adds to the fact that it can disrupt annoying line of tanks with 5 repairers behind each tank.. There is NO skill involved in sitting there and getting repaired while spamming your cannons. Yeah I like the teamwork aspect of it, but that is ALL it is and nothing more.. High end it will eventually turn matches into pissing contests where both teams just camp choke points and try to get cheap kills with immune tanks. Public games it will cause imbalances and just disable any decent players from countering that tactic as you need to match the force to counter it. Also a side affect is it make players leave the game not enjoying the flow. So yes it does add to the game, it makes the game dynamic and forces players to think of more than one way engaging the enemy.

If they nerf airstrikes because of these kind of whiners, they are going in the wrong direction and going further towards catering to players who look for incapacitating the game.

If you think about it, if you're too stupid to be clustering together in the same spot you deserve to be wiped with one shot.

[sterps]

Seriously airstrikes add nothing to the game and is OP? Is this guy for real?

First of all, it adds to the fact that it can disrupt annoying line of tanks with 5 repairers behind each tank.. There is NO skill involved in sitting there and getting repaired while spamming your cannons. Yeah I like the teamwork aspect of it, but that is ALL it is and nothing more.. High end it will eventually turn matches into pissing contests where both teams just camp choke points and try to get cheap kills with immune tanks. Public games it will cause imbalances and just disable any decent players from countering that tactic as you need to match the force to counter it. Also a side affect is it make players leave the game not enjoying the flow. So yes it does add to the game, it makes the game dynamic and forces players to think of more than one way engaging the enemy.

If they nerf airstrikes because of these kind of whiners, they are going in the wrong direction and going further towards catering to players who look for incapacitating the game.

If you think about it, if you're too stupid to be clustering together in the same spot you deserve to be wiped with one shot.

While i completely agree with your reasons on my they are a great addition, i still think they need to be nerfed some what. $700 is too little to pay for such an awesome power.

Apparently they've nerfed them in a few ways, hopefully in a more balanced way...but we just have to wait and see.

[tekgunman]

My friend made a suggestion yesterday regarding airstrike spam. He said there should be a designated player per team to call in airstrikes. This would decrease spam and also cause a team to use their airstrike with more caution.

[Letty]

A designated player per team clashes with the renegade philosophy of letting anyone seamlessly move between roles as often as they need/can afford.

[Nationkid05]

Once the power plant is destroyed everything is double or nearly double its original price so that might be why it costs more or it might be a cooldown, i've never really tried the airstike alot to know if it was really.

[R315r4z0r]

Only the prices of units are doubled. Weapons and items remain the same price.

[Unit]

Just No. In timed AOW that could possibly maybe slightly have a fraction of truth, but otherwise.

Also please stop trying to degrade this thread with your rubbish images.

stop polluting the game with troll posts then and I might consider it. also Hate, saying "nerfed in several ways" isnt really saying an awful lot about in what ways those are, so while it is a welcome notion its meaningless.

also Savas please go back to call of duty, your post made my eyes bleed. without any planning, skill or team work you think its great to be able to blow up the entire attacking force with 1 move because you are just so bad at the game you cant figure out how to break a seige. its disgusting, and exactly what Renegade doesnt need.

[iovandrake]

I'm of the opinion that Renegade never benefited from excessive siege. I know that Under's never ending matches never benefited from it. Field's almost as bad. 700 credit OP airstrikes ruin sieging. Having balanced airstrikes isn't likely going to stop a majority of sieges. All this purist bullcrap about how elite you are because you don't want airstrikes complicating your braindead slam tanks into a base for long periods of time "strategy" is laughable.

[HaTe]

I'm just unsure if I am allowed to release such information before it becomes publicly accessible by the change log and patch...

But it's not nearly as effective as it currently is. Trust my judgment on this one.

[sterps]

Just No. In timed AOW that could possibly maybe slightly have a fraction of truth, but otherwise.

Also please stop trying to degrade this thread with your rubbish images.

stop polluting the game with troll posts then and I might consider it. also Hate, saying "nerfed in several ways" isnt really saying an awful lot about in what ways those are, so while it is a welcome notion its meaningless.

also Savas please go back to call of duty, your post made my eyes bleed. without any planning, skill or team work you think its great to be able to blow up the entire attacking force with 1 move because you are just so bad at the game you cant figure out how to break a seige. its disgusting, and exactly what Renegade doesnt need.

Clearly, you're the only one trying to troll.

[Unit]

I'm of the opinion that Renegade benefited from people who refuse to learn how to play the game. I know that Under's never ending matches never been fun for me so I always wanted a quick way i could single handedly take out the entire attacking force with little effort. Field's almost as bad, ive got no idea how to buy flame tanks or how aim a repair gun at an artillery or mammoth tank whilst coordinating the rest of the team, or how to form an effective counter rush, so having a 700 credit OP airstrikes totally destroying an attacking force is really handy. whats even better is using airstrikes on a defending team when their tanks are in the only way to leave their base, drop an airstrike and kill them all without having to do annything, leaving them constantly defenceless. Having balanced airstrikes isn't likely going to allow me to instantly cripple anything beneath it so im totally against it. I never played the original but all this purist bullcrap about how elite you are because you don't want airstrikes complicating my ability to simply win without effort is laughable.

I fixed that for you.

[Trev-MUN]

Some advice, Unit. When snarkily "fixing" someone else's post to make it align with your opinion, don't dump a long-winded rant into it.

Your rant is hyperbole to the extreme as it is.

[iovandrake]

I'm of the opinion that Renegade benefited from people who refuse to learn how to play the game. I know that Under's never ending matches never been fun for me so I always wanted a quick way i could single handedly take out the entire attacking force with little effort. Field's almost as bad, ive got no idea how to buy flame tanks or how aim a repair gun at an artillery or mammoth tank whilst coordinating the rest of the team, or how to form an effective counter rush, so having a 700 credit OP airstrikes totally destroying an attacking force is really handy. whats even better is using airstrikes on a defending team when their tanks are in the only way to leave their base, drop an airstrike and kill them all without having to do annything, leaving them constantly defenceless. Having balanced airstrikes isn't likely going to allow me to instantly cripple anything beneath it so im totally against it. I never played the original but all this purist bullcrap about how elite you are because you don't want airstrikes complicating my ability to simply win without effort is laughable.

I fixed that for you.

Haha, you soooooooo funny! I have never see anyone do that to a post before. /sarcasm

Now could you be intelligent for a second? I don't have time for the level of stupidity you just displayed. I mean you even kept mentioning 700 credit airstrikes like I support them being that cost when I specifically said a full sentence about how 700 credit OP airstrikes ruin sieging. I know reading comprehension isn't something school's encourage anymore so I will try to be patient with you if you promise me that you will actually start trying harder.

[Truxa]

I'm of the opinion that Renegade benefited from people who refuse to learn how to play the game. I know that Under's never ending matches never been fun for me so I always wanted a quick way i could single handedly take out the entire attacking force with little effort. Field's almost as bad, ive got no idea how to buy flame tanks or how aim a repair gun at an artillery or mammoth tank whilst coordinating the rest of the team, or how to form an effective counter rush, so having a 700 credit OP airstrikes totally destroying an attacking force is really handy. whats even better is using airstrikes on a defending team when their tanks are in the only way to leave their base, drop an airstrike and kill them all without having to do annything, leaving them constantly defenceless. Having balanced airstrikes isn't likely going to allow me to instantly cripple anything beneath it so im totally against it. I never played the original but all this purist bullcrap about how elite you are because you don't want airstrikes complicating my ability to simply win without effort is laughable.

I fixed that for you.

This i liked

Though I do believe that endless sieges ruin the game as it always depends on your teammates help to a great extend. In the old renegade, to compensate for lack of brains, tank-shells are made and repaired beyond believe (bypassing the maximum vehicle cap) this in order to crush turtle teams.

Countering such a rush with an airstrike is effective, a bit too effective if you ask me, but it's part of the game.

Just now I finished a game in which GDI was attacking and I was a part of it, on the map "Field". Because shelling is not possible in renegade x, it's kinda hard to get a good rush going against a turtle as NOD was. Only afew NODdies defended the tunnels (3 or so) while the rest were repairing HON and Obelisk and the 3 tanks/flamers they had at their gates.

The way we won this is because I was able to get 3 well-placed airstrikes to crush them, right before the rest of the team rushed in to knock off HON/Obe. and winning it.

While doing that, I was only killed once in the tunnels (gathering credits for airstrikes) and obtained a K/D of 55/1 (35 or so due to the airstrikes)

The above example shows how powerful an airstrike can be, even at the price of 1500 credits.

GDI airstrikes do the following: 3 separate airplanes strafe the target area with bullets followed by massive explosives.

A good way of nerving this airstrike is to reduce it to 2 separate airplanes strafing while keeping the cost at 1500.

As for the NOD airstrike, it's a single bomber circling the area, that timer (or amount of bombs dropped) should be reduced by a third to compensate for the GDI airstrike nerf.

[RoundShades]

idk, it is very nice for teams who lose production structures but still have a ref to have some form of utility for attempting to pull a game back.

I generally think 1500 for airstrike is a bit high.

I don't mind 800, if there was cooldowns per player and team. 3 minutes per player, 1 minute per team?

It really is the stacked airstrikes and neverending airstrikes that are overpowered. Perpetual shielding is what that creates.

The single use airstrikes themselves, they aren't that damaging, and THEY NEED TO BE MORE VISIBLE, but if they were then players should immediately react to dive into nearby vehicles for protection. Then that actually OPENS UP MORE STRATEGY.

Instead of camping the front of a base with 4 shellers and 6 healers, you have to make sure you have enough repairers to keep the tanks alive, enough tanks to shelter the repairers during an airstrike, and possibly even add APCs to the blend as shelters for 3 additional repairmen per 1 tank. So now, ideally, you would have 3 shellers, 1 apc, and 6 repairers. With less people, instead of 3 shellers and 5 repairers, you would have 2 shellers 1 apc and 5 repairers. Just adds difficulty in camping a front base, and even helps cracking a front base that is turtling by airstriking upon entry, but it limits attackers using it by PT Distance and gives more advantage to "pushing out" use.

Airstrikes are better than most people give credit. People are just tired of dying to them. They get way too many kills, they need to be highly visible once locked so a team can see and avoid it, and they need to be limited just a bit so dumping 2 onto a nuke/ion beacon doesn't gurantee a strike.

[ARC_trooper]

It shouldn't be possible to do an airstrike near a nuke/ion strike. Would you fly over a zone which is about to light up?

The laser which is being used to target the area for an airstrike, is that visible for the enemy aswell? If so; see a laser -> get away from it

[RoundShades]

It shouldn't be possible to do an airstrike near a nuke/ion strike. Would you fly over a zone which is about to light up?

The laser which is being used to target the area for an airstrike, is that visible for the enemy aswell? If so; see a laser -> get away from it

I have seen games with lasers possible to use shorter distances with less reaction time to it, but were more visible, and worked without complaint.

This game obviously needs a bigger laser. It shouldn't matter if its very obvious, it is a very effective weapon.

ACTUALLY, I think the best idea, is to make the place the laser lands glow bright red to the enemy, so as it is targetted, the enemy has plenty of ways to tell what is going on and reaction time to avoid it.

[ARC_trooper]

I think that when you see a laser and get a message from the enemy saying "incoming airstrike" (or whatever it says) its more then enough warnings. If you wont break formation after that, its your own fault.

Today played a game where i heard there was an airstrike incoming, out of curiosity I walk out of the HoN to see where it strikes only to get it right in my face. That is some funny stuff

[Truxa]

It shouldn't be possible to do an airstrike near a nuke/ion strike. Would you fly over a zone which is about to light up?

The laser which is being used to target the area for an airstrike, is that visible for the enemy aswell? If so; see a laser -> get away from it

All the times I was on the defending side of a siege at e.g. Field map, I could see a short green laser (a GDI prepping an airstrike) pointing from the NOD bunker. It's only when i zoomed in with my sniper scope to see it and only halfway to where he/she is pointing it. Thing is, I usually make them my prime target as I know they are about to unleash an airstrike.

2nd thing is, why would a person aim an airstrike to some place that isn't a 'hotspot'? So, whenever I hear the EVA unit calling airstrike aproaching (when being NOD) I always make a run from the place where I expect it to be coming (e.g. where all the NOD defenders are?!) Same goes for when I'm on GDI and hear the Cabal unit (that's the NOD version of EVA) calling for an incoming airstrike, I leave the hottest area asap!

People need to think and L2P in order to evade them, in the RTS games you wouldn't know where the airstrikes are hitting either, not even a flare, so to stay close to the RTS game things should be as similar as possible.

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

I know right? As soon as you hear that EVA (so dont turn off EVA volume), RUN AWAY. From the conflict.

Its either the conflict (everyones tanks) or your base... so, book it! Flee the scene, run away from those tanks, or dig into a building, preferably a building not next to a tunnel, cause some asshole is in that tunnel bombing the base.

- Maybe kills shouldn't be awarded to the players that set off the strikes?

[Letty]

I wouldn't be against removing the points and kills gained from airstrike. Beacons can be disarmed for points, which somewhat counterbalances the fact that beacons can also kill things. Airstrikes however kill things and the enemy have no recourse beyond not getting hurt.

[Trev-MUN]

You mean aside from sniping the spotter?

By the way, this thread is really funny to read when listening to Airstrike from Tiberian Dawn.

[Truxa]

You mean aside from sniping the spotter?

By the way, this thread is really funny to read when listening to Airstrike from Tiberian Dawn.

Sniping the spotter not giving you points? That sounds strange to me ...

The one who calls for the airstrike (= the spotter?!) should not get any credits for killing/destroying with the use of an airstrike.

Well, thats what the other 2 dudes mean ... I do not agree though.

Using an airstrike yields less credits than it costs, well, if you are on a jelly server or any other that has the price increased and also depends on the amount destruction that occurs.

I'm no fan of cooldowns either, as when I place an airstrike, I run back to base to buy a new one and run back to the spot(usually takes 3-5 minutes total depending on the map)

On a jelly server, it costs me more, so after placing the airstrike, I head to the tunnels (field map) or nice sniping location to snipe me additional credits untill I can buy a new one.

Cooldown isn't fixing it too much imo when you keep the costs at 700, it just simply is too low (400-500 credits due to damage done, 1 harverster unload during that time and buying the next)

[Darkraptor]

Question: in some rounds i cant buy an airstrike, although i have the money for it and the the botton to buy the Airstrike isnt grey . Is this a bug or a limitation?

[Valor]

It means the server changed the price of the airstrike, usually to 1500.

[Jayrun]

Question: in some rounds i cant buy an airstrike, although i have the money for it and the the botton to buy the Airstrike isnt grey . Is this a bug or a limitation?

It is because on some servers superweapon items cost changed slightly.

[Darkraptor]

thanx for the answer .

In my opinion, when i cant buy an airstrike, the buybotton should turn grey.

[Trev-MUN]

Sniping the spotter not giving you points? That sounds strange to me ...

Nah, I was responding to Letty saying that "the enemy have no recourse beyond not getting hurt" when it comes to airstrikes.

But if they snipe the spotter before the airstrike can be called in (i.e. while spotting with the laser), I'd consider that a recourse.

[Truxa]

Sniping the spotter not giving you points? That sounds strange to me ...

Nah, I was responding to Letty saying that "the enemy have no recourse beyond not getting hurt" when it comes to airstrikes.

But if they snipe the spotter before the airstrike can be called in (i.e. while spotting with the laser), I'd consider that a recourse.

The one and only and only for a period of 5 seconds you'd have the chance.

As a sniper, it's wise not to be visible 100% of the time, but rather in intervals of 5-10 seconds, relocating and vice versa, or else, enemy snipers would have an easier time locking on to your position.

[R315r4z0r]

Airstrikes are in the game to keep it moving and make sure it doesn't break into a stalemate camp fest by one team.

I've seen more tug of war matches in Renegade X where each team would take turns having control of the field because the controlling team stops in front of the enemy base just to get beat up by airstrikes. It gives it more action since not only do you need to plan to take the field, but you need to plan ahead on how to assault the enemy base once you have it. You can't take the field and then figure out how hit the enemy later because by then they might be able to push you back.

Not only that, but the damage airstrikes do now is completely nerfed from what it used to be. I launched Nod's airstrike directly on an enemy Mammoth tank that didn't move for the entire duration of the attack. The airstrike only did 25% damage to it.

The only thing I think should be looked into is being able to launch airstrikes in either base. I think airstrikes should be disabled within your own base and that all enemy bases should have AA towers that stop airstrikes from happening in the base until they are destroyed.