Recon Bike & SSM Launcher?

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

They were in Renegade, and they were definitely in C&C 1. Any plans for these Nod units to make an appearance?

Heres my ideas for them and their stats. Lots of shit to spew here, grab a drink:

The bike for $500, faster than buggy/Humvee with less health, only for Nod. I see it having basically the same weapon as the stealth tank, fast dual rockets maybe with a lower Rate of Fire, but around the same damage, same missile speed. Honestly I just want to ride a fucking bike with missile launchers on the side.

Definitely get the bike rockets to have lock on just like the stank, since instead of a turret the bike has two missile launchers fixed on both sides of it. The launchers can aim up and down, but have the rockets themselves able turn with your reticule, but of course you can't aim behind you, you might be able to angle off shots a little under 90 degrees left and right and up, but can't aim backwards.

The Surface to Surface Missile launcher, only for Nod, $800, this thing was only in tiberian dawn multiplay for the most part. There was a representation of it in Renegade, it was in singleplayer, like the bike.

Its like the V2 truck from RA1, but with two missiles, although in Renegade it was modeled to only have one missile. Fucking Renegade.

Anyways, in tiberian dawn multiplay, the SSM's two missiles were about the same damage as the RA1 v2's one missile. It was kinda the same unit role. Slow moving, little health, but awesome firepower siege unit, as it could take out clumps of infantry, and smack around buildings. In TD, the SSM could out range obelisks and adv. guard towers. For Renegade X you might wanna lower that range.

So the SSM's got two powerful siege missiles, which have a longer range than arty/HRLS, but a much longer reload time. It is slow moving, slower than arty, its effective against infantry, structures, and ok against tanks. Easiest to use to crack open structures. Since the missiles are so powerful, making the reload time as long as possible would help balance, and the speed of the missiles themselves would be slow enough for players to dodge them at range.

- - -

In game - go to the front line. Roll up with the SSM, behind all the tanks and arties, with a couple bikes zipping around at all corners of the map. Good times, no?

Or is it just too much stuff for nod? I don't think it would unbalance anything. With the bike you basically have a more expensive version of the buggy, and with the SSM a more expensive, more unwieldy version of the arty.

Wheres as GDI has the medium and the mammoth, and MLRS. And those things just about destroy everything. GDI just has the solid all in one units, wheres Nod has a spread out arsenal of funny weapons.

I really miss the bike. Its in Tiberian Sun Reborn and its fun.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Guest

[Daedhart]

This has been discussed a lot. The short answer is probably not.

[HaTe]

Stoppp with these topics....

There's a reason they weren't in renegade by default. Stop trying to rationalize their functionality, when in reality we all know how poor these vehicles would play (and if you don't then I question your renegade experience).

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

Awww... ok. The bike would totally fit in though. Maybe not the super missile truck, but the bike for sure.

For real though, the SSM would handle easier than the bike, cause it has a turret. The bike would be the only vehicle to not have a turret.

[sterps]

I honestly don't see how the SSM launcher would play out differently than say the MLRS. If you took the MLRS chassis and put two rotating honest john missiles on the back instead of the missile launcher. That's exactly how it was in tiberian dawn.

Tell me how this would play out poorly? If anything it would make Nod more diverse.

Also to say that Westwood excluded this from game play because how it plays out is a big assumption.

I would be more inclined to think it was due to the time constraints on the development of the game. A LOT of things were rushed for a release while much was left incomplete.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Guest

[Noodlesocks]

Stoppp with these topics....

There's a reason they weren't in renegade by default. Stop trying to rationalize their functionality, when in reality we all know how poor these vehicles would play (and if you don't then I question your renegade experience).

Maybe not in Renegade but in Renegade X, the bike would certainly fill Nod's cheap AA vehicle need. Nod only has the stealth tank for AA and they cost a lot.

[Volcom]

If you guys make the models for them they can be added in, but there isn't enough developers to add new vehicles like this in.

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

Hate is an old timer jelly cool cat. Him and ehh, and some other ppl, they all like to stay the same. Smelly, stagnate. Don't expect much from them.

Sterps is right, so is Noodles - the SSM is just two big missiles instead of MLRS 6 small missiles. They are proportioned differently, but are almost equal in the outcome.

Listen people - this can be done. There is a path to fit these two units inside the Renegade X game.

Of the course I'm just wondering if the devs think it would be cool to try these units, maybe eventually?

Moar ideas: MOar drinks

- - -

If they got in, Nod would have 3 more units than GDI, so I can see some people saying GDI needs some kind of addition along with Nod's.

So, 'cause right now nod has 6 tanks, GDI has five - I could see, that, when adding two more vehicles for Nod, that some crusty bitches might bitch about "TOO MANY".

Well, GDI doesn't really need another tank, because:

1.

GDI did not have more tanks in C&C1 and Renegade, where as Nod did. Now, in Tiberian Dawn, balance wise, despite Nod having two extra units, the two factions had the same fucking balance statistics as the two factions do in Renegade, except it was less fancy. Basically, the outcome would still be the same - Nod artied the GDI base to death, over Nod SSMed the GDI base to death. Same shit, Nod won through siege. GDI can do the same with nice big tank pushes and MLRS back up, especially in Renegade X where MLRSs are now sweet and proper.

Side thing: Bikes would be more vulnerable to grenadiers than buggies, so you could still counter bikes. You can counter SSMs too. Its not like GDI would be at a disadvantage because they can stop these two wonky, niche quirky units. These two units are not straight forward deals. This engine could make it good.

2.

These two extra units are basically just alternate versions of another unit of the same role. Nod has that alternate thing going on as a faction, in TD, Renegade, TS, etc. Example: In TD, Nod has the flamethrower and chem warrior. One you can get at the beginning, the other you need to tech up. THe Chem warrior 100 bucks more expensive than flame thrower, does slightly more damage (but negligible), and can walk on tiberium without getting cut to ribbons and poisoned to death. Thats the same fucking unit, it just looks different. Ones red and ones green.

Anyways, do the same shit with implementing the Recon Bike and SSM and you can't fail. THey are jsut alternate versions of said unit type. Not imbalanced.

- -

GDI only has one powerful and resilient version for all their unit's roles. Theres no need for a 2nd version of the Medium, Mammoth, MLRS, for they are perfect!

Nod has their units role's split up further than GDI does. GDI condenses all firepower and functionality into fewer units, Nod has particular weapons and vehicles. Nod has the crazy shit, definitely not conventional shit.

If you want though, maybe get the Rocket Humvee for GDI. The one like in some Renegade fan maps? Just something to give GDI. It's an Early AA unit, $600 (so to make APC a different choice for AA. APC is 500 and has more armor, passengers), early hit and run anti armor unit. Same thing as the Humvee, it has the same health, torque, speed, but it has the Recon Bike/stank duel lock on tracking reticule missiles weapon fired by a 360 degree top mounted turret.

[iran]

I agree with DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr and after playing Renegade online for literally a decade I do think the developers were intending to add some of the remnant vehicles into the original game but simply didn't have enough time. There are many functions they could fulfill, not the least of which is lowering the staleness of vehicle combat.

In the original Renegade vehicle combat is a tad lacking as a result of the lack of diversity in the vehicles that can be bought and the specific functions they have. Nod doesn't have any heavy armor vehicles and is hurt more by this. I think Westwood worked around this by making the Nod Light Tank hard to hit and very powerful (the original beta model was based on a Bradley and easy to hit, like in C&C1), and buffing the Artillery, Stealth Tank and Flame Tank.

The way of thinking coming from DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr is very sound to a veteran player like me. Other Renegade players also wonder about the SSM Launcher and Recon Bike and the Recon Bike is a fan favorite on fan maps and servers with modified crates. It's pretty cool to drive around the Recon Bike too. Renegade X doesn't have Renegade's vehicle lag and vehicle steering and driving feels A LOT MORE realistic, so probably the Recon Bike would be even more amazing to drive in Renegade X if it were added.

[HaTe]

I've played in far more than jelly lol. Been playing renegade since its release. Competitively, publicly, sniping, CTF, coop, DM, you name it (as well as modding in all these game types). The problem with the recon bike is the invisible vehicle blocking zones. The game just does not support such a small vehicle width. The SSM launcher would have to be completely redesigned from the renegade one if you really wish for it to be added. The arty is already the mrls counterpart, so I fail to see where it would fit in as well. I don't think you guys realize the huge effects this would have on gameplay, and just think it'd be a cool thing to have. I'm not about that, having played far more competitive than you guys...I can also guarantee you I know more about the original renegade than you (from strategies, to damage tables, to gun statistics, to pure skill...), so try not to just assume I'm some random jelly "no change" guy. In fact, I was a large supporter of in game changing balance tweaks in jelly, and wrote out an entire new mod for the game (a lot of which is coincidentally incorporated into renegade x).

[Raker57]

I'm a full supporter of the Recon Bike. It was in TD, it was present in this timeline, it should be in the game. There has been PLENTY of support for it, which is why Hate is tired of hearing it brought up. I would like to see the SSM be recreated as well, but I'd settle for a recon bike. The one in Renegade sucked and it was still a blast to use. I'll bet the reason the original Renegade devs pulled it from multiplayer wasn't because of balance issues but because they couldn't get the bike mechanics to work properly. It was just too clunky for a bike. It would be different with the more advanced physics of the UDK.

If only someone would model it...

[HaTe]

Invisible vehicle blockers and the width of the small recon bike. Bring up a logical solution for fixing that hinderence and you have my support for a 2-team recon bike. Until then, what you're supporting is a vehicle that would see to having each individual map edited for the purpose of adding one silly bike to the list of vehicles to purchase.

I'm sick of hearing about it because everyone's argument is that it would be "fun." Whereas I am arguing gameplay and balance. Whenever I bring these up, people seem to find it more convenient to ignore these arguments and continue with their same "they were in TD and they'd be fun" argument.

The mechanics of the bike weren't the reason they weren't in renegade by default. The edit vehicle system in renegade was extremely thorough, and you could edit just about every aspect of a vehicle. The reason was the maps layout, the gameplay, and the other models in the game simply did not support having such a small width vehicle. The SSM launcher is a different story entirely, but it was also not added due to good reason.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Guest

[IMBALISK]

SSM launcher would have the same role as the artillery

[HaTe]

Same role as the artillery? Does the artillery not do its job good enough already?

[Raker57]

Recently, the levels would all kill you if you went outside the boundary. That changed pretty quickly (within a month) to invisible blockers. Adding new blockers wouldn't take forever. Not only that, but the true recon bike is a lot bigger than the one they made for Renegade. Smaller than the buggy but not by much.

GDI has 2 anti-air units. Nod has 1. Nod favors hit and run tactics (recon bike), whereas GDI favors brute force (mammoth tank).

[SFJake]

Invisible vehicle blockers and the width of the small recon bike. Bring up a logical solution for fixing that hinderence and you have my support for a 2-team recon bike. Until then, what you're supporting is a vehicle that would see to having each individual map edited for the purpose of adding one silly bike to the list of vehicles to purchase.

There's already blockers (or even vehicle killers) in the game right now in places that are totally reachable. Lakeside puts them in places that a buggy could go through. Walls blows up your vehicle for trying to get up the ramp when its totally feasible. Etc.

So I'm not sure whats the problem there. Putting a vehicle blocker on the tunnels if that wasn't done is about the easiest thing on Earth, by the way.

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

lol. Sorry HAtE, I was just being a dick. I'm sure we are all capable of immense HATRED, I mean change.

- - -

Interesting, Iran agrees with me? Nice. I should go back to jelly forums and post funny shit there again.

-

Interesting, I never thought about the blockers. But how exactly is that more of a problem for bikes than the rest of the tanks?

HAtE, are you saying bikes would be harder to control when driving around the maps because their top speed could be difficult to manage and thus end up coming to a complete stop when you hit invisible wall? Making you a dead easy target?

That doesn't seem any different from using a buggy and hitting said wall. Like in Walls Flying, there are open spaces at map borders, no rocks that you can see to block your path, but there are those invisible map boundaries. I've hit them sneaking around as SBH, or rammed them with buggy.

How is the bike at more of a disadvantage than everything else? Thats your argument right?

The other argument being balance statistics, strategy. This one I am more interested to hear from you, but thats the thing! Since its not in the game, and your experience (of the bike) stems from crappy ole renegade crap, these are just ideas bouncing around. But plausible ideas, ideas that this engine (I presume) can handle.

HAtE: What do you think of my idea for the bike in general? And the SSM? I know, its a big post. SO GRAB A DRINK AND SPARK UP THAT JOINT. So, map layout and boundaries, physics engine and all that crappy jazz aside, what do think about the bike and SSM? With Renegade X, there are bigger maps than vanilla renegade, but I think even on the converted maps like Walls, the bike could rock around the circuit, the nascar pathway surrounding the middle cliff. Theres enough room to just race around the track, hit some tanks then try to get away. It would have the lowest health of all vehicles right? GDI's got invincible swaths of tanks, how would a couple bikes kill balance?

It is true though, I wish for this, mainly for the lulz heeheeeha.

But, HAtE, so far, from your few posts, I don't see any real "blockers" that stop these two units from being included, aside from the devs not having enough potential expansionism right now for they are quite busy. Now I feel like modeling for them...

Also, artillery and SSM, its one or the other. Pick the cheaper, easier to use one, or the crazier one. Now this shit is a little tricky 'cause I envision the SSM to be be pretty powerful, whereas the bike is just a fucking little motor bike. Mammoth tanks could RUN THEM OVER HAHA!!! In TD.

So, the Artillery is fine and what not. We're not saying it doesn't perform well enough. I'm just saying, hey! Remember the SSM? Again, mainly for the lulz. Definitely don't make those Honest John napalm rockets "lock-on", that be two OP.

- - -

So, these units definitely aren't needed, for balance. Just for variety! What do y'all think? Does it seem plausible for these two units to stand up in a balanced manner with the current game setup? Pure unit functionality, not supposed map, map boundary, and vehicle physic hindrances, which renegade X seems to have fixed.

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

Douple penetration here we go, err I mean post.

@ Hate: I'm just thinking for exactly what you mean that the small bike wouldn't fit properly in the Renegade scheme (its too small to fit? DP then? ):

- Do you mean, would the bike be too OP cause its fast nimble, and can easily squish infantry?

- Do you mean the Bike too UP, cause its too hard to steer and aim?

- - -

For the SSM, the renegade one I have shunned. Fuck that piece of shit, gimme the real one from TD with the two napalm missiles. I bounce this idea again for it's function:

* The weapon would be two big missiles, one fired, one second later the other fired, or maybe both at once?

* Maybe you could time the reload sequence. Shoot one at a time, or fire them both at once.

* Actually , for balance purposes, it should probably just do what it did in TD - fire off one, then one second later the other. Then you have to wait for a long time for it to reload. You'll know when its reloaded cause the missile graphics reappear on top of the launch platform. Its a unique weapon cause you can see the ammo, the ammo isn't inside a cannon or a rack, its on top of a platform. Cool eye candy. Just like in TD!

*It could be the slowest vehicle in the game, with it's turret's turn rate the slowest too. Slowest reload. Slowest projectile speed too (although not comically slow that watching it makes you say WHAT THE FUCK KINDA MISSILE GOES THAT SLOW?) But holy fuck, if you can land those couple shots on a couple of poor saps huddling together, say good bye soldier. Tanks wouldn't get hurt too bad. Buildings would be easy targets - the buildings would be slight more affected by the rocket damage than enemy tanks would be affected.

*You know, just equalize the damage of SSM so its comparable to arty, but splayed out more quicker. The arty needs to fire off like 4 shots? Just guessing here, pure guess work. 4 shots to equal the the two SSM missiles' damage, the two SSM missiles being the one salvo fired then waiting for a while to reload, whilst the arty shoots one at a time at a consistent pace, the SSM whips off two big ass fucken bullets then has to hibernate for a bit to get more, the arty just keeps going. The MLRS slings off the 6, then goes underground for a bit. The MLRS is like half the hibernating time that SSM is though.

*The arty takes a half second of firing, then a half second to reload? So 4 seconds to get those four shots off.

*Make the SSM longer. fires first shot, wait one second, fire second shot, then wait 10 seconds, give or take for the missiles to reappear on the SSM.

*The rocket speed is slower or so than arty ballistic projectile.*

*SSM more effective against infantry, arty more effective against tanks? Both good against buildings? Buggy better at infantry, bike good against tanks?

*Hate, do you think the Arty and SSM shit could even out? Sorry for splayed ness, but what the fuck else am I gunna do? BOUNCE!

- - -

So, with imagining the Bike and SSM on equal terms, with the bike being a alternate buggy, the SSM being an alternate Arty, you can go from there, and tweak them to be slightly more specified, although they basically are the more specified version of the buggy and arty.

In Renegade X the Mammoth has been tweaked. My god, the thing is an ACTUAL MAMMOTH NOW, THANK YOU RENY X, you brought the fucking beast. So bring in the god damn scorpion lizards kk plz?

The mammy has four missiles that actually track now. Yep, Renegade X has ACTUAL, TRACKING. MISSILES. ITS A FUCKING REVOLUTION. Plus the two cannon shots, the mighty cannon shots, you can fire off the two caNNON SHOTS, THEN IMMEDIATELY AFTER THAT FIRE OFF FOUR TRACKING ROCKETS. THE RELOAD AINT TOO HEAVY either so this thing rocks.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Guest

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

Hoho mouth pussy AND ass, but I'm just thinking, the SSM's rockets would have the largest splash radius, so infantry would have to really hide from it. But, infantry also hide when it comes to MLRS and Arties., so.... ah fuck man. I think it could work! Just don't make splash too crazy, too much more than MRLS rocket barrage or arty big millimeter.

- - -

The SSM is like the 3rd one.

1st is arty, quickest firing, fastest projectile speed, most consistent damage output over time.

2nd is MLRS, heavier payload, bit slower travel time, better damage and splash, plus tracking, and tracking for AA.

3rd is SSM. Official cannon C&C 1 unit. Heaviest payload. Best damage and splash, but slowest travel time, very slow travel time, very heavy, luck relied on leading the targets, or just sieging a base. Expensive, late game thing, sort of. UNWIELDY.

See, the arty would still be very useful. The buggy would be more practical. The Bike and SSM are there for nostalgia, and rule of cool, but its possible to implement them in a balanced matter that wont piss off GDI, or so I hope.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Guest

[HaTe]

Invisible vehicle blockers and the width of the small recon bike. Bring up a logical solution for fixing that hinderence and you have my support for a 2-team recon bike. Until then, what you're supporting is a vehicle that would see to having each individual map edited for the purpose of adding one silly bike to the list of vehicles to purchase.

There's already blockers (or even vehicle killers) in the game right now in places that are totally reachable. Lakeside puts them in places that a buggy could go through. Walls blows up your vehicle for trying to get up the ramp when its totally feasible. Etc.

So I'm not sure whats the problem there. Putting a vehicle blocker on the tunnels if that wasn't done is about the easiest thing on Earth, by the way.

So making an existing problem three times worse shouldn't be a problem because it already exists? It's not just about how easy it is to do (though having to put three times the amount to accommodate for a vehicle that has the width of a player is not nearly as easy as you seem to assume), but it is also about how unrealistic and poor the game play is as a result of more vehicle blockers. Vehicle blockers are added because it should be obvious that vehicles shouldn't go into the location they are trying to get to (e.g. buildings). Having them all over the place to accomdate for a smaller vehicle would look and play awful. People would have to learn exactly where these vehicle blockers are, and even after doing so have to experience the stupidity (but necessity) of an invisible blocker. It's just not worth all that effort for each map and each new map just so that a recon bike (which by the way is highly unrealistic, even for renegade or command and conquer) can be a purchasable vehicle...

In regards to the SSM, I'm a bit busy right now, but I'll take a look at your proposal later, Dom.

[SFJake]

Why do you exaggerate it?

Vehicles blockers exist pretty much only in tunnels and buildings. Thats it. Most other places, I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to get there. Heck, I think Walls should allow any vehicle to go up the base ramps, because why the heck not.

[HaTe]

Clearly you don't play the game for the competitive aspect, then. I need not argue my case any further with you, because you are viewing the game from a different perspective, and will not understand where I am coming from.

[SFJake]

Then stay on your stupid pedestal and don't talk to the likes of us. Why do you even bother.

[HaTe]

Because some of us care about the game play beyond how fun it is to fuck around with. Some of us care about the competitive aspect of the game, and are not narrow minded and ignorant.

Some of us also have way more experience with the original renegade, and laugh at the suggestions of some of the people who suggest things without knowing their full impact. I choose to try and explain it rather than make fun of, so try not to insult me too much, as I am merely choosing to be a messagenger for competitive players, since there are only a handful that post on this forums regularly.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Guest

[SFJake]

I care, I'm not an idiot, you're just an arrogant little fucker is the only problem.

[HaTe]

I'm arrogant because I understand the affects that newcomers are propsimg to the game have on the game more than they are able to?

If you say so. Just trying to provide some insight from a different perspective. If that's arrogant, then I'm not sure what the definition of narrow-minded is, then, huh?

[Raker57]

I'm not a newcomer and I still support recons. And what do you mean by the Recon Bike being unrealistic even for command and conquer or renegade? You're talking about a universe with tunneling flame tanks and Chrono Troopers.

[Raker57]

And Dominant Hunter, you lost me dude. LOL. You sound like a little kid who got his hands on too much porn.

[HaTe]

An infantry sized character's dimensions wouldn't even fit in a recon bike without folding him in half lol (even with him laying down). It sort of takes the unrealistic nature to a new level.

But that's not even why it'd be bad in game (and is in renegade).

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

lol porn is nice. And I am one young dumb full of cum thinga ma jig havin fun.

BUT THE GREAT MESSAGE IS STILL THERE MY SONS, BDSM I mean SSM.

- - -

Now now, SFJake. Hater man is just being realistic. No need to get pissy.

Although I must say, Hate, I think you are exaggerating this whole map blockers thing.

So making an existing problem three times worse shouldn't be a problem because it already exists? It's not just about how easy it is to do (though having to put three times the amount to accommodate for a vehicle that has the width of a player is not nearly as easy as you seem to assume), but it is also about how unrealistic and poor the game play is as a result of more vehicle blockers.

The bike doesn't have to be as small as you say it is. You're point is valid, so lets make the bike bigger than! I think it was too small in Renegade. You know it was too small in Renegade.

So Hate, you are pointing out how it failed in vanilla renegade. Thats all true and fine.

So, yeah, accommodations need to be made. The bike should be sized appropriately, so that the existing blockers can accommodate the bike. Feasible, no?

I'm just trying to get a theory hammered out guys, no biggy.

[HaTe]

Well, the current vehicle blockers are in place to accommodate for the width of the buggy/humvee. So, the bike would have to be quite a bit bigger (and thus no longer really be a bike) to fit in. Think about it...vehicles aren't meant to go into buildings, and that should be obvious by their size alone. However, the recon bike should realistically be able to fit inside the buildings quite clearly, but they are not allowed in them (making the vehicle blockers that are supposed to be hidden and not blantant, completely obvious). Buildings are just one example, of course.

The SSM launcher would at least not have this problem, and its gameplay usage would be what has to be considered if it was ever considered to be additional content to the game.

[Ban4life]

Ok keep the sexual innuendo's to a minimum please. This should be a neat forum.

I have to agree with HaTe, but I gave that opinion already in another thread. The recon bike, nor the SSM have a place in Renegade-X.

In short, the recon bike has too little tactical power, and it would only be a vehicle to f*ck around with. Where all vehicles have a tiered DPS and matching ammo, the recon bike is the odd man out. It has rockets, suggesting high damage, but it's reload times are too slow. As it is a hit and run vehicle, you expect high damage and return, not a single stank attack and return. Up the damage and it could easily get out of hand. Even if you remedy this, it would not feel at home to me in a Renegade game. It just does not fit he kind of vehicle and arcady feel of the game. Although I cannot speak for the whole community, there were at least a dozen people who agreed on the forum. There were less but some people who still wanted it though, but I found their arguments lacking, as it was only about how fun it was in Renegade.

This is even without the problems of size. I left that out because that could possibly be remedied IMO. Although I'm still not a fan of it even with increased size.

The SSM seems like a bad idea. It's power is different from all other weapons. There is no weapon that is strong against buildings that is bad against tanks. It would feel overpowered if it would do a lot of damage against tanks, as you could just unload your payload quickly, doing a disproportionate amount of damage while your exposure is way too limited. The speed of the rockets would counter that a little bit, but it would just feel wrong to have such slow rockets.

It is not only about the idea, but also the feel. Both these vehicles do not feel at home in this game to me.

Don't get me wrong. I would like to play with the vehicles one or two times just for fun, but after that, it would just be something I wouldn't like in the game of Renegade.

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

Fair enough boys, fair enough.

I still think it could be done to balance out these two, but it would be a chore to implement.

- - -

DP = double post.

How the hell could you lose me? Aren't these jokes obvious? Fuck man. Let your balls speak to your mind. They have vast majority vote on your thought's meanings !

lol, I'm just fucking with ya! Even though what I just said was most realistic mind flux ever!

But I think I see what ya'll mean with tank blockers - regarding the bike. Front wise, it would be about half the profile of the buggy/Humvee. The bike would be narrow enough to slip on thru the blockers.

Still, it would be hilarious if it could plow through building doors. LOL.

And the SSM is a power broker. Breaker, potentially. Those are some big ass missiles. It would be tough to balance.

Well thanks for discussion man. Renegade X is fun enough already, but I am super nostalgia C&C expert asshole prick job, so I had the urge to poke you guys with mah LOGISTICSZZZZZ.

[Raker57]

I think I just lost a few brain cells...

[IMBALISK]

Dude artillery is long range siege

SSM launcher is long range siege

get it?

[Antisymmetric]

Haven't read what's going on too lazy. Sorry if I'm cutting in.

I was initially hesitant to respond to this but it's become a much larger discussion than I thought it would be so what the heck. For starters I love the idea of Recon Bikes, and SSM launchers. They make me feel all warm and giddy inside like the first time you played Renegade online and discovered you could fly the helicopters/orca. However, I don’t think they would ever actually “work” in CnC mode. Here’s why: Recon Bikes could be made to “fit” easily enough, balancing them with week armor, a large turning radius, low to mid-range price and decent missiles/ speed. But, they would just fit; it wouldn’t feel “natural”. This is because of the difference in scaling between TD and Renegade, basically an RTS map is much larger compared to a Tactical shooter map. I’m sure most of us have played maps in Renegade which we felt didn’t play well due to this reason. I can recall playing custom maps that felt way too large, and maps that felt way too small, ie. Canyon. Renegade maps, and Renegade-X maps both due to the mechanics of the game play have a map size range which they are bound to. Going outside of this range will ruin the mechanics functionality and balancing. This essentially makes recon bikes feel awkward or unnatural, sure they would be balanced, but they wouldn’t really have a place in any stage of the game mode, CnC. SSM’s have essentially the same fatal flaw but instead of map size, to units function, it’s a situation of game stages in CnC mode to destructive power. I’d explain myself better but I have to run to school soon have a massive aero design project due tomorrow and haven’t started. Also, Tactical missile launchers never seemed to fit the nod combat doctrine to me, neither did the M110 for that matter, the G6 just make more overall sense.

I would still love to see them make an appearance though, just not in CnC mode. I mean maybe SCUD’s could be used for an escort scenario, or be used as an endgame tech structure, actually no just maybe a map asset. Recon Bikes could be used for racing, I’m sure I’ve played that on custom severs before. Probably won’t happen though, let’s face it that’s a ton of work.

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

I think I just lost a few brain cells...

Hahaaa welcome to the club mutherfucker. Don't worry they grow back.

[Volcom]

As I said before there isn't time for make new vehicles models. If you want them make them

[CoreDefender]

Bumping this, hopefully to gather support for the SSM Launcher, even as a crate vehicle.

Now that we're getting the M2 Bradley vehicle as a crate vehicle, this would be another vehicle idea.

 

[TK0104]

Don't know how to make a SSM launcher a good unit. Maybe a vehicle like the UT3's SPMA.

 

When you shoot a missile you can "deploy" it in the air and hit people from that point

[vandal33]

On 12/31/2017 at 1:43 AM, CoreDefender said:

Now that we're getting the M2 Bradley vehicle as a crate vehicle, this would be another vehicle idea.

Never knew about this...

[Eagle XI]

SSM should be added as an regular vehicle, as an counter to GDI Hotty blob repair spam behind their tanks. Once Nod has lost the field its camping time for GDI until all are elite, then they finish with an all in. Nothing Nod can do to break out the siege as their low health vehicles blow up whilst any tiny bit of damage dealt simply gets fixed up in no time. Might aswell surrender at that point the field gets lost instead waiting out the siege as its the defining moment of failure.

As i remember in TD it oneshotted any infantry it would fire napalm rockets with large area of effect. Its model should be the TD version, which had 2 rockets, you would able to fire each one seperately, firing one there is short delay before able to fire other, once both are fired enters a long reload period. The rocket wont have lockon despite being missile weapon. If you seek to improve the original CC95 model design a bit look at Twisted Dawn's SSM launcher.

As for the Recon bike it could function as mobile anti-air if turned into a purely AA unit. Although none of the current maps warrant the addition of an mobile anti-air unit due to them being small enough to render air units of reduced usefulness. Its GDI counterpart could be Avenger Humvee.