HaTe

Why not just call it "Civil War" mode?

Yeah the points system really needs to be redone. I liked the way it was in renegade, personally. The only exception was that nod was able to get a points lead much quickerthan GDI in most cases, but I feel as if the edited mrls and mammy may have already fixed that. The amount of points earned for each task is currently highly unbalanced.

Yeah this is true. I just hope that this points system gets tweaked so that it more closely resembles the renegade point system, which was set up nice. Perhaps after that is done, we could revisit the credit tick debate.

typo. thanks - fixed it.

The change of price in the PT is going to be added for the next (or upcoming) patch. People will become aware of it at that point.

First off, I'd like to state that I am using SFJake's chart for the Renegade X damage calculations. None of the Renegade X statistics are found by me, and are strictly coming from that chart. Disclaimer: This is strictly for DAMAGE. A gun may not do equal damage from Renegade to Renegade X, but still be more effective in other ways. There is no range, velocity, tracking, SprayAngle, or anything else being taken into consideration. I do not have the stats for Renegade X on these factors, and so I cannot compare them. The only thing this information is doing is comparing the damage, and that is it. Renegade X does not have neck shot damage, whereas Renegade does - which is important to keep in mind as well. The damage calculations for Renegade come directly from the Renegade files, so they are exact (no estimates or rounding - just pure math). How accurate SFJake's chart is remains unclear, since his RoF and reload time specifically are observations rather than listed fact in the files (which is what the Renegade numbers are). Therefore, much of the Renegade X information (Reload time and RoF in particular) is incomplete or possibly inaccurate. This is no one's fault, as SFJake used what he has, and no known Renegade X statistical files have been released. *NOTE: Explosive (splash) damage in Renegade is calculated serverside. Therefore, calculating the splash damage is extremely complicated to predict (a direct impact hit will sometimes do splash damage, and sometimes not do splash damage - depending on the connection from client to server). For any explosive damage done to infantry, only the DIRECT damage is used in this post. It can then be assumed that most of the time, the weapon's explosive warhead damage will also be added on to that amount (each weapon has a different explosive raw damage). For Renegade X, the calculations done by SFJake are done ingame, and not through server files. Because of this, direct impact splash damage is being taken into consideration. If needed, I can provide the calculations for the direct impact splash damage in Renegade as well, but at a different time (this is enough work as it is). So, the infantry calculations for weapons with explosive damage in Renegade are currently incomplete. The vehicle damage is exact, however (I have done the vehicle calculations in the past already for a separate project). **A slight error in SFJake's chart occurs for the RoF of 1 shot reload weapons. The RoF for these weapons is supposed to be 100; which is just the max. He used 1 second/reload time, but reload time and RoF are 2 separate calculations. I have corrected his error in my post. Side Note: Explosive damage in Renegade did not harm the MCT, whereas in Renegade X, it does a noticeably large amount of damage to the MCT. So damage with explosive weapons do a very large amount of damage to the MCT in Renegade X, compared to Renegade. Whether or not this is intended is unknown. Since vehicles do 0 damage to the MCT, it can be assumed that this is just a beta glitch and will be edited. Silenced Pistol Renegade headshot damage - 50. Renegade X headshot damage - 35. Renegade bodyshot damage - 10. Renegade X bodyshot damage - 20. The pistol does 15 less damage per headshot, but double the damage for a bodyshot. Renegade damage to light armored vehicles - 1. Renegade X damage to light armored vehicles - 4.5 Renegade damage to heavy armored vehicles - 0.25. Renegade X damage to heavy armored vehicles - 0.12 The pistol has become much stronger against light armored vehicles it seems. RoF in Renegade - 4. RoF in Renegade X - 7. Reload time in Renegade - 1.86 seconds. Reload time in Renegade X - 2.1 seconds. I'm unsure how SFJake got his RoF for this weapon, but according to his chart - the pistol shoots much quicker in Renegade X. C4s The C4's appear to do the same damage. The splash radius appears to be different, however. The farther you are from a proximity mine explosion, means a little bit less damage received in Renegade X. This was not the case in Renegade. According to SFJake's chart, C4's have a reload time of 1.5 seconds in Renegade X. That is a whole .5 seconds faster than Renegade's 2.0 second reload time. This is a big difference. Automatic Rifle Renegade headshot damage - 35 / 25 (GDI/Nod). Renegade X headshot damage - 20. Renegade bodyshot damage - 7 / 5 (GDI/Nod). Renegade X bodyshot damage - 8. Headshot damage drastically decreased, while bodyshot damage slightly increased. Renegade damage to light armored vehicles - 0.7 / 0.5 (GDI/Nod). Renegade X damage to light armored vehicles - 2. Renegade damage to heavy armored vehicles - 0.175 / 0.125 (GDI/Nod). Renegade X damage to heavy armored vehicles - 0.06. Damage to light armored vehicles increased. Damage to heavy armored vehicles decreased. RoF in Renegade - 10. RoF in Renegade X - 13. Reload time in Renegade - 2.06 seconds. Reload time in Renegade X - 2.3 seconds. Again, it is unclear how accurate the Renegade X chart is for RoF, but apparently the autorifle shoots noticeably faster in Renegade X, and the reload time is slightly increased. Shotgun Headshot damage in Renegade - 75*8 = 600. Headshot damage in Renegade X - 12*16=192. Bodyshot damage in Renegade - 15*8= 120. Bodyshot damage in Renegade x - 12*16=192. Apparently the Renegade X shotgun has an increased spraycount of 4 bullets per shot. Also, it apparently does not do headshot damage, meaning that the body shot damage is increased, and the headshot damage is drastically decreased. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade - 12. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade X - 39. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade - 3. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade X - 2.5. Damage significantly increased against light armored vehicles, and slightly decreased against heavy armored vehicles. RoF in Renegade - 1.0 RoF in Renegade X - 1.0. Reload time in Renegade - 2.13 seconds. Reload time in Renegade X - 4.4 seconds (1.2 + (0.4*8)). Rate of fire is the same. Reload time is apparently hugely increased in Renegade X, according to the chart. Grenadier Headshot damage in Renegade - 75*. Headshot damage in Renegade X - 140. Bodyshot damage in Renegade - 15*. Bodyshot damage in Renegade X - 70. Please see *NOTE. The Renegade damages are just for the direct hit impact damage, whereas the Renegade X damages are the direct hit impact damage + the direct hit explosive damage. I will edit these calculations in the future. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade - 33. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade X - 25. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade - 32.25. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade X - 25. Slightly decreased damage to both vehicle armors. Damage to buildings (non-MCT) in Renegade - 1.625%. Damage to buildings (non-MCT) in Renegade X - 1.5%. Damage to MCT in Renegade - 1.375%. Damage to MCT in Renegade X - 2.5%. Almost the same damage to buildings. RoF in Renegade - 0.75. RoF in Renegade X - 1.1. Reload time in Renegade - 3.2 seconds. Reload time in Renegade X - 2.8 seconds. Grenadier shoots noticeably faster in Renegade X, apparently. Reload time slightly decreased in Renegade X. Chaingun Headshot damage in Renegade - 25. Headshot damage in Renegade X - 20. Bodyshot damage in Renegade - 5. Bodyshot damage in Renegade X - 10. Following the trend of increased damage for body, decreased for head. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade - 1. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade X - 2.5. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade - 0.75. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade X - 0.07. Very large increase to light armor vehicle damage in Renegade X. Very large decrease to heavy armored vehicles. RoF in Renegade - 10. RoF in Renegade X - 18. Reload time in Renegade - 2 seconds. Reload time in Renegade X - 3.6 seconds. Shoots MUCH faster in Renegade X according to the chart. Reload time is sort of irrelevant. Weak Rocket Launcher / Missile Launcher Headshot damage in Renegade - 175*. Headshot damage in Renegade X - 350+. Bodyshot damage in Renegade - 35*. Bodyshot damage in Renegade X - 100. Please see *NOTE. The Renegade damages are just for the direct hit impact damage, whereas the Renegade X damages are the direct hit impact damage + the direct hit explosive damage. I will edit these calculations in the future. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade - 37. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade X - 55. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade - 35.33. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade X - 55. Pretty large increase in damage between the 2 weapons. However, the missile launcher (Renegade X) has 1 shot per clip, whereas the weak rocket launcher has 6. The missile launcher is also a lock-on weapon, whereas the weak rocket launcher is not. Damage to Buildings (Non-MCT) in Renegade - 1.67%. Damage to Buildings (Non-MCT) in Renegade X - 3.5%. Damage to MCT in Renegade - 1.5%. Damage to MCT in Renegade X - 7%. Very large increase in damage, but this is without taking the clip size, RoF, or reload into consideration. I may calculate that out in the future to properly compare the 2 weapons' complete damages for each second. RoF in Renegade - 0.75. RoF in Renegade X - 100**. Reload time in Renegade - 2.8 seconds. Reload time in Renegade X - 2.8 seconds. Sniper Rifle Headshot damage in Renegade - 500. Headshot damage in Renegade X - 350+ (350 is the max HP for an infantry unit, so any higher is irrelevant - the exact amount is currently unknown). Bodyshot damage in Renegade - 100. Bodyshot damage in Renegade X - 100. Same damage. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade - 30. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade X - 30. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade - 2.5. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade X - 1. Same damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade X. Decreased damage to heavy armored vehicles. RoF in Renegade - 1. RoF in Renegade X - 0.7. Reload time in Renegade - 3.06 seconds. Reload time in Renegade X - 3.3 seconds. Shoots noticeably slower in Renegade X, and also has a slightly increased reload time, apparently. Improved Rocket Launcher / Rocket Launcher Headshot damage in Renegade - 200*. Headshot damage in Renegade X - 180. Bodyshot damage in Renegade - 40*. Bodyshot damage in Renegade X - 90. Please see *NOTE. The Renegade damages are just for the direct hit impact damage, whereas the Renegade X damages are the direct hit impact damage + the direct hit explosive damage. I will edit these calculations in the future. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade - 38. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade X - 40. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade - 36. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade X - 40. Slightly increased damage for both vehicle armors. Damage to Buildings (Non-MCT) in Renegade - 1.67%. Damage to Buildings (Non-MCT) in Renegade X - 1.66% Damage to MCT in Renegade - 1.5%. Damage to MCT in Renegade X - 3.33%. RoF in Renegade - 1. RoF in Renegade X - 1.1. Reload time in Renegade - 2.8 seconds. Reload time in Renegade X - 3.8 seconds. Large increase to the reload time for Renegade X. Ramjet Rifle Headshot damage in Renegade - 1000. Headshot damage in Renegade X - 350+ (max noticeable). Bodyshot damage in Renegade - 200. Bodyshot damage in Renegade X - 200. Same (noticeable) damage. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade - 60. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade X - 60. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade - 5. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade X - 2. Noticeably decreased damage to heavy armored vehicles. RoF in Renegade - 0.75. RoF in Renegade X - 0.7. Reload time in Renegade - 2.06. Reload time in Renegade X - 4.64 (2.2+(4*0.66)). Apparently, the reload time is very drastically increased. Volt Automatic Rifle Headshot damage in Renegade - 50. Headshot damage in Renegade X - 20. Bodyshot damage in Renegade - 10. Bodyshot damage in Renegade X - 10 (ignoring burn damage, since it is not being calculated into the Renegade damage). A lot less headshot damage. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade - 4. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade X - 4. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade - 4. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade X - 4. Same damage to vehicles. Damage to Buildings (Non-MCT) in Renegade - 0.1%. Damage to Buildings (Non-MCT) in Renegade X - 0.1%. Damage to MCT in Renegade - 0.2%. Damage to MCT in Renegade X - 0.2%. Same damage to buildings and MCT. RoF in Renegade - 10. RoF in Renegade X - 20. Reload time in Renegade - 2.27 seconds. Reload time in Renegade X - 3.3 seconds. Apparently, according to SFJake's chart - the Rate of Fire is doubled in Renegade X for the volt. Meaning it effectively does the listed damages for Renegade X twice as fast as the listed damages for Renegade. That is hugely significant. PIC Headshot damage in Renegade - 1000. Headshot damage in Renegade X - 350+ (max noticeable). Bodyshot damage in Renegade - 200. Bodyshot damage in Renegade X - 200. Same damages. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade - 80. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade X - 85. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade - 80. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade X - 85. Same damages. Damage to Buildings (Non-MCT) in Renegade - 2%. Damage to Buildings (Non-MCT) in Renegade X - 2%. Damage to MCT in Renegade - 4%. Damage to MCT in Renegade X - 4%. Same damages to buildings. RoF in Renegade - 100 (max). RoF in Renegade X - 100*. Reload time in Renegade - 3 seconds. Reload time in Renegade X - 3.3 seconds. Slightly longer reload time in Renegade X. Humvee Headshot damage in Renegade - 60. Headshot damage in Renegade X - 24. Bodyshot damage in Renegade - 12. Bodyshot damage in Renegade X - 16. Huge decrease in headshot damage. Slight increase in bodyshot damage. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade - 2.4. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade X - 3. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade - 1.8. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade X - 2.4. Noticeably increased damage to both armors in Renegade X. RoF in Renegade - 8. RoF in Renegade X - 10. Reload time in Renegade - 3 seconds. Reload time in Renegade X - 1.8 seconds. Apparently, Renegade X's humvee reloads faster and shoots slightly faster. APC Headshot damage in Renegade - 60. Headshot damage in Renegade X - 28. Bodyshot damage in Renegade - 12. Bodyshot damage in Renegade X - 14. Drastically decreased headshot damage in Renegade X. Slightly increased bodyshot damage. Note: the damage for the Renegade humvee and Renegade APC are the same. The difference for the 2 Renegade vehicles is in RoF. The 2 Renegade X vehicles have different damage amounts. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade - 2.4. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade X - 2.9. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade - 1.8. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade X - 2.1. RoF in Renegade - 12. RoF in Renegade X - 12. Reload time in Renegade - 2 seconds. Reload time in Renegade X - 1.9 seconds. MRLS Headshot damage in Renegade - 90*. Headshot damage in Renegade X - 156. Bodyshot damage in Renegade - 18*. Bodyshot damage in Renegade X - 78. Please see *NOTE. The Renegade damages are just for the direct hit impact damage, whereas the Renegade X damages are the direct hit impact damage + the direct hit explosive damage. I will edit these calculations in the future. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade - 39. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade X - 37. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade - 39. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade X - 37. Almost the same. Damage to Buildings (Non-MCT) in Renegade - 1.83%. Damage to Buildings (Non-MCT) in Renegade X - 2%. Slightly increased damage to buildings. RoF in Renegade - 3. RoF in Renegade X - 4. Reload time in Renegade - 3 seconds. Reload time in Renegade X - 3.3 seconds. Apparently, a slightly faster RoF and a slightly longer reload time to balance it out. Medium Tank Headshot damage in Renegade - 400*. Headshot damage in Renegade X - 350+ (max noticeable). Bodyshot damage in Renegade - 80*. Bodyshot damage in Renegade X - 80. Please see *NOTE. The Renegade damages are just for the direct hit impact damage, whereas the Renegade X damages are the direct hit impact damage + the direct hit explosive damage. I will edit these calculations in the future. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade - 62. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade X - 64. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade - 62. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade X - 64. Almost identical. Damage to Buildings (Non-MCT) in Renegade - 2.7%. Damage to Buildings (Non-MCT) in Renegade X - 2.8% Almost the same. RoF in Renegade - 100 (max). RoF in Renegade X - 100*. Reload time in Renegade - 1.5 seconds. Reload time in Renegade X - 1.4 seconds. Apparently, a slightly quicker reload time for the med. Mammoth Tank - Rockets/Missiles Headshot damage in Renegade - 75*. Headshot damage in Renegade X - 350+ (max noticeable). Bodyshot damage in Renegade - 80*. Bodyshot damage in Renegade X - 40. Please see *NOTE. The Renegade damages are just for the direct hit impact damage, whereas the Renegade X damages are the direct hit impact damage + the direct hit explosive damage. I will edit these calculations in the future. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade - 75. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade X - 30. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade - 75. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade X - 30. Keep in mind the completely different way the mammoth tank functions - especially the way it shoots. Damage to Buildings (Non-MCT) in Renegade - 3.57%. Damage to Buildings (Non-MCT) in Renegade X - 1.5%. RoF in Renegade - 100 (max). RoF in Renegade X - 6.66. Reload time in Renegade - 2 seconds. Reload time in Renegade X - 4.7 seconds. Mammoth tank - Cannons Headshot damage in Renegade - 375*. Headshot damage in Renegade X - 350+ (max noticeable). Bodyshot damage in Renegade - 75*. Bodyshot damage in Renegade X - 80. Please see *NOTE. The Renegade damages are just for the direct hit impact damage, whereas the Renegade X damages are the direct hit impact damage + the direct hit explosive damage. I will edit these calculations in the future. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade - 60. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade X - 64. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade - 60. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade X - 64. Damage to Buildings (Non-MCT) in Renegade - 2.56%. Damage to Buildings (Non-MCT) in Renegade X - 2.8%. RoF in Renegade - 100 (max). RoF in Renegade X - 5. Reload time in Renegade - 1 second. Reload time in Renegade X - 2.1 seconds. Orca - Machine Gun Headshot damage in Renegade - 100. Headshot damage in Renegade X - 27. Bodyshot damage in Renegade - 20. Bodyshot damage in Renegade X - 18. A LOT weaker. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade - 4. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade X - 3.33. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade - 3. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade X - 3.33 RoF in Renegade - 12. RoF in Renegade X - 9. Reload time in Renegade - 3 seconds (effectively 0). Reload time in Renegade X - 4.7 seconds. Machine gun is noticeably weaker to just about everything in Renegade X. Orca - Rockets/Missiles Headshot damage in Renegade - 150*. Headshot damage in Renegade X - 240. Bodyshot damage in Renegade - 30*. Bodyshot damage in Renegade X - 80. Please see *NOTE. The Renegade damages are just for the direct hit impact damage, whereas the Renegade X damages are the direct hit impact damage + the direct hit explosive damage. I will edit these calculations in the future. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade - 45. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade X - 80. Damage to heavy armored vehicles in Renegade - 45. Damage to light armored vehicles in Renegade X - 80. Rockets damage in Renegade X is clearly superior to the damage in Renegade vs vehicles (though it also works differently). Damage to Buildings (Non-MCT) in Renegade - 2.08%. Damage to Buildings (Non-MCT) in Renegade X - 4%. A ton stronger vs buildings as well, as far as damage is concerned. RoF in Renegade - 100 (max). RoF in Renegade X - 2. Reload time in Renegade - 3 seconds. Reload time in Renegade X - 4.7 seconds. I will do the rest of the calculations, as well as compare the new weapons vs the replaced weapons at a later time. I plan on eventually doing the Nod comparisons as well, but doing the GDI comparisons has already taken a very long time. Hope you guys find this useful, and please keep the notes and disclaimer in mind.

They have light by default. Jelly modded them to have medium armor in Renegade for their server.

I like that the volt does more damage to vehicles, personally. In renegade, the unit was rarely ever used because you had to remain in sight to do the damage, whereas the pic and railgun could shoot and hide repeatedly. It's better to give them a buff so that they are actually used. And yeah, a pistol should not be doing explosive damage, no matter how heavy the pistol is. The warhead should do less damage to heavier armored structures for sure. If renegade x's damage system works like Renegade's, the heavy pistol should have the steel warhead, and the regular pistol should have the shrapnel warhead (shrapnel does 10% raw to light armor and 2.5% to heavy. Steel does 20% to light armor and 15% to heavy armor).

That's what the OP's chart did (DPS to each specific armor type) and why we were arguing about it in the first place....? I didn't realize that was where you got lost....wow. You also never mentioned anything about an "expected DPS" until just now. Which is different than a Real DPS, which is what we were talking about. That's where the facepalm comes in.

Yes, make up a measurement that is not the one discussed in the original argument or the topic at hand, and claim that you were right all along because this measurement is still relevant, even though it was not what was being discussed... That makes total sense. Sigh. Should have expected it from a "mathematician" I suppose.

Expected DPS = 26.67. cmon man. It's your PIC that does an 80 damage shot every 3 seconds. The percentile isn't random, nitwit. It's the differential between expected DPS and actual DPS on the specific second. Except that it isn't flawed - assuming your time is great enough. Which for buildings, it is. Let me just ask you a simple question. You are shooting a building. Do you want a 50 DPS weapon or a 100 DPS weapon? Assume that both are in range and that you have enough ammo to kill the building with both. "Expected DPS." Okay, now we're getting somewhere. You're creating an entirely different measurement. You're using "expected" because it is the most consistent result. However, this is still NOT a Real DPS (which is what the OP attempted to create in his chart). By saying "expected," you are stating that one should expect the damage to be 26.67 per second. However, in the first second, the REAL DPS is 80. You've decided to create an entirely different measurement based on the consistency of the results. You're not wrong in doing so - but once again, this is not a REAL DPS, which is what we've been discussing all along. Again, look at the OP's chart. His calculation is attempting to find the Real DPS, but such a thing does not exist in an FPS. It can only be calculated as "expected" because of consistency, however, some vehicles will die much quicker than others. Meaning that this "expected DPS" only exists once per every 3 seconds - which is your benchmark. The "Real DPS" gets close to this the further you go, but in reality, measuring that far for the game isn't even really needed. The fact is that the immediate DPS (let us use 1-13 seconds) is much higher than your "expected DPS" - and that is what will matter the most (the PIC would have done enough damage to kill a Stealth tank at this point). I said "random" because this "expected DPS" that you were using was not apparent. You have been claiming the Real DPS is easy to calculate - when in reality, it is inconsistent and therefore irrelevant. As far as buildings go, the damage calculation is different. The warhead does a different amount of damage to the building armor type than it does to the vehicleheavy armor type. Your point for the "Expected DPS" against a building is relevant though - but that is merely just one "Expected DPS" calculation; and the rest are much more immediate - making the "Real DPS" for each individual second vary much more. As far as your question goes - it depends how long I will be shooting the building for, and which weapon will do the most damage at the end of that timeframe. If I'm shooting it for 3 seconds and the 100 DPS weapon is a 1 shot reload weapon and takes 3 seconds to reload (meaning I've only done 100 damage), yet the 50 DPS weapon does more than that, yet takes a huge amount of time to reload after the 3 seconds, I'll take the 50 DPS weapon. That's my point. It's not a Real DPS. @goztow; the stank is heavy armor in Renegade (in jelly they moved it down to medium, but by default it is heavy). I would assume the same for Renegade X.

Where is the DPS in this? You're telling me to not argue it because you know that you never included any DPS calculation in the entire thing. Your graph did exactly as I said it would - proved my point. You're not calculating Damage Per Second (Per implies a rate - which is nonexistent in your graph). You're calculating damage for each second - which is exactly what I said. You're claiming that you're a mathematician and attempting to insult my math knowledge, when literally all you did is repeat exactly what I had already calculated (all you did was stretch it out and create a random percentile calculation). You just proved my point entirely. The chart the OP made includes a DPS rate for each weapon against each specific armor type. My point was that this "DPS" is irrelevant because it is flawed and inconsistent to measure a DPS for a FPS game. Your math is spot on - as is mine. Your terminology is what is wrong, and where you are getting confused.

In fact, I even just googled it for purpose of an outside reference. I used Call of Duty to search, since it was the most likely to come up with actual relevant material. Here: It is similar for Renegade and Renegade X (not the same, though). The difference being that Renegade units all have different HP and armor types, and any given warhead differs per that armor type. The point is still the same, however. DPS is irrelevant and immeasurable for a FPS (for the most part). If you want to do TTK, you would have to do it per weapon (by looking at the warhead, damage, RoF, and reload time) to each specific armor type (in Renegade at least - I am not sure what system Renegade X uses, but I would assume similar).

You're resorting to insulting when you still haven't given me an answer for the example. If it's that easy - do the calculation. There's no graph needed. If It's DPS - it is one set number (DPS is a rate). If you need to do a graph listing each individual second - you're completely failing to see my point and would be supporting it even.

Once again, you are referring to damage for a specific second (in this case, how many seconds it takes to kill a structure/unit), and not damage per second. You can argue that the PIC does 80 DPS, because in the first second her "DPS" would be 80. In the second second, however, the damage dealt is also 80. Meaning that for the second second, the "DPS" is 40 (80/2). At 2.99 seconds, the "DPS" would be ~27 (80/3). Then at the 3 second mark, the DPS would be ~53 (160 damage dealt / 3 seconds). Which is why you cannot come up with a "DPS" unless you are doing it for EACH SECOND - which would then be Damage For a Second, and not Damage Per Second. If you can come up with a set "DPS" for these weapons in this example - please do. My point is that you cannot.

Okay, let me ask you this then: Given my example, what would the "DPS" be against the stealth tank for the PIC and for the Volt auto-rifle? The point is that there is no "DPS." You can determine which weapon will destroy the entirety of the vehicle quicker, but not the "DPS" for either weapon. The Damage for the first second favors the PIC. The damage in the tenth second favors the Volt. There is no DPS, because it all depends on which second you are focusing on.

You're not understanding... DPS means Damage Per Second. The damage per second differs based on which second you are talking about. The calculation you are referring to is how long it will take each weapon to destroy a building. That is an entirely different calculation. Damage Per Second cannot be effectively calculated, unless you are to do it per each second (which is then Damage For a Second, and not Damage Per Second). For Renegade, this also was highly dependent on which warhead was being used, and which armor/flesh was being hit. It's much more complicated than you think. You're trying to simplify it for a comparison standpoint, but my point is that you cannot do that by creating a false measurement.

Let me try and explain the same example in depth a little more for clarification purposes. The PIC is a 1 bullet per clip weapon (meaning its RoF is effectively irrelevant), and its reload time is 3 seconds. It does 80 damage per shot to a vehicle. The Volt autorifle is a 100 bullet per clip weapon, with a 10 shots/second RoF (meaning 10 seconds to empty the whole clip), and a 2.27 reload time. It does 400 damage per clip to a vehicle. Imagine comparing both of these weapons when they are shooting at the same target. Let us use the Stealth tank for example here. In the first second, the PIC does 80 damage. The Volt does 40 damage. In the second second, the PIC has still done 80 damage, for it is still reloading. The Volt has then done 80 damage as well. In the third second (2.99 seconds for the sake of this example), the PIC is just finishing up the reload and has still done 80 damage. The Volt has done 120. In the fourth second, the PIC has done 160 damage, and the Volt has done 160. In the fifth second, the PIC has done 160 damage (still reloading), and the Volt has done 200. In the sixth second (5.99 for the sake of this example), the PIC has done 160 damage, and the volt has done 240. In the seventh second, the PIC has done 240 damage and the volt has done 280. In the eighth second, the PIC has done 240 damage (reloading), and the volt has done 320. In the ninth second (8.99 for the sake of this example), the PIC has done 240 damage and the volt has done 360. In the tenth second, the PIC has done 320 damage, and the volt has done 400. The stealth tank is then dead for the volt, but will take another 2 seconds for the PIC to kill it. Imagine, for a second, that the APC was used as the example, though. The Volt would then have to reload for 2.27 seconds, allowing the PIC to essentially almost "catch up." That's why DPS isn't a calculable measurement for FPS games (for the most part). It all depends on which second you are talking about, because the damage per second is inconsistent.

You can't just divide 1 by the reload time to get the RoF for 1 shot per clip weapons. The RoF is technically "100" for these weapons (or max), and the reload time is separate. For instance: Name SwitchTime ReloadTime CanSnipe ClipSize MaxInventoryRounds Warhead Damage Damage Neckshot Damage Headshot Range Velocity RateOfFire SprayAngle SprayCount SprayBulletCost Medium Tank 0 1.5 0 1 -1 6 80 240 400 100 100 100 0 1 1 ^Is just a brief showing of a few of the calculations for Renegade. the RoF is the max (100) for 1 shot reload weapons, and the reload time remains separate. You do not add the reload time in for every other weapon's RoF, and this is no exception. DPS is also not a FPS calculation. DPS is almost strictly for MMORPG games, and for good reason. It does not fit into Renegade or Renegade X. The only guns you can actually compare "DPS" for are the 1 bullet per clip guns if they have the same reload time. A gun can easily pass another gun in DPS depending on the time of the reload. Therefore, DPS is not a valid calculation because it is not consistent whatsoever. For instance, the mobius in Renegade did more damage than the PIC while the PIC was reloading, but upon hitting the next shot, the PIC would then pass the mobius. The cycle would continue like that, until eventually the mobius will continue to do more overall damage than the PIC has done (meaning the PIC can no longer pass it again). The game is not measured in seconds, so DPS is not a valid measurement. Also, for the record, the rocket officer and the gunner in Renegade did almost the exact same damage. The difference came in RoF and velocity, but the damage upon contact was almost exactly equal.

Having to reinstall every time they got banned would at least push a few cheating evaders away from the game. A hard drive volume serial number would definitely work better if that were indeed possible and legal though.

Try this: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=72631

Pointsfix fixed a glitch that allowed a few warheads to get far too many points for shooting a tank in green health. I don't think anyone's arguing for it to be reversed, but it doesn't do the damages quite right currently if what Unit says is true.

What is the possibility of having the game add a feature that creates a randomized serial hash per player upon downloading the game? It would certainly help keep evaders out, since proxies are pretty easy to come by now-a-days.

Not yet. Perhaps in future patch this will be added though!

^ I'm saying that if how you (rype) explained it works is the way it works in Renegade X, then it isn't the same as it works in Renegade; as you said it was. Mines do the same damage no matter the distance, as long as you set it off - in Renegade. Whether you are 3 meters or land on top of it, it's going to do almost the exact same damage (landing on top of it can actually do a tad bit less, as the complete splash damage is not entirely calculated in this case).