Ban4life

For the record, I played this game from the start, though it is true that I rarely played competitively. So the Hottie/tech update is actually aimed at the competitive play. You state that it is overpowered in competitive play, but not how. I read only sentiments, so I have no idea why you want to upgrade it in competitive. By all means, change it in competitive if it really is a pain. I just want to see some good arguments why they are OP in competitive play, and the arguments why this will change it for the better. They can add a "competitive" option in the servers. Maybe it catches on enough that it will come to the public servers. In the public servers the current setup is good, because people play their own styles, sometimes with teamplay. Keep in mind that every character has its own role to play. Saying that the SBH has the most building kills is actually not a very strong indicator, leading to faulty arguments. Should we make the ramjet rifle do higher damage to buildings, so Sakura/Havoc will have more building kills? Or just give them extra C4? I mean, it only has unit kills despite its high pricing... The SBH on the other hand doesn't have so much vkills or normal kills. The only reason he will possibly out-gun most other units (below 1000 characters) in these categories is because they aren't taken as much. That the SBH is potentially so versatile makes is a very cheap unit indeed. They are prime at breaking the ties in many maps without defences. That even low skilled players can use this is not a reason to change it. Even low skilled players should be allowed to have a great impact in the game. Then the no skilled can suddenly apply patience and tactics in movement, contributing a lot to the game when they finally strike in comparison to their normal attacks. In Renegade-X, SBH's will have reduced power due to more players in the game and prevention of hopping. Despite this, they are still a potentially good unit for its price. The pricing of the SBH can easily be changed to get this done. But all of this isn't possible if Nod is pounded by GDI's tanks or swarmed in the tunnels due to GDI's focus on dependable power. If that happens, the SBH is a poor choice indeed. This might happen in the Beta. Also GDI's increased potential of striking the base with the mammoth tank should be considered. They can do a lot more initial damage before they start grinding away the health than before. Eventually you just have to wait until the release.

Don't be so demeaning. I've played this from the beginning too. Can you give a full argument for changing the techs? Right now I see only sentiment. My preference for arguments comes from my university training. If you have a compelling arguement behind your sentiment, I will change my mind. As I've never played competitive, my arguments for public and competitive are the same. My public experience makes my opinion pretty solid, but for competitive play I can be persuaded. IF you can find the right arguments. If it is really that much of a problem after it releases, maybe a competitive play hotty/tech things can be installed. The SBH can get a higher pricing. It has been done on several servers with mixed success. My sentiment stays the same. The unit should be stealth continuously, or it will be nerfed. The stank is ok the way it is, especially with the upgrades GDI is getting. For the most part I would wait until the release. Like Cirex is saying: most units have much more effectiveness In Renegade-x. As the creators say in a podcast. The units have a much greater impact than before (in comparison with tanks) Also the new maps are radically different. To suggest more change now is doubting the creators who have neen devoted for sometimes 7 years to this project.

Stealth isn't as overpowered as you think. Only stanks are used well. The sbh's are 3/4th of the game wasted. They have a lot of potential in taking out high value targets (engineers repairing tanks for example), but just arent used that way. They sometimes steal a tank, but that isnt as good as it was with the higher vehicle limits. Their only other power is infiltration to destroy a building, which is incredibly powerful. On many maps with defences this is useless to try. Without defences they have a larger chance and are worth it if they destroy something, but are generally wasted for a bigger part of the game. This means less people actually playing and having tactical value. This means GDI getting an upper hand. I agree with the grenades. Mines are quite powerful and free. If you can buy a powerful grenade for 100-200, it would add to the tactical economic part of the game. I would limit the grenades to anti tank and anti infantry. Maybe be able to buy and carry up to 3 anti tank and just one of the anti infantry. The smoke grenades of Planetside 2 are the best I've seen so far. They obscure sight in varying degrees due to billowing of the clouds and any targeting is hard and easily disappears in the smoke. Still, I dont think its Renegade material. Despite that it would be incredibly cool to have them in Renegade anyway. The engineers have high tactical value, but are weak in direct engagements. I think that should not be changed. All their power is in a weak and not much wanted position.

If I can do 2 extra suggestions; - add a link to the video explaining the basics on top. - the question about AI is still unclear. It has a half finished sentence: "Those who have played C&C Renegade know that its bots were as dumb as a rock, in fact a server admin will be able to set up a system where bots fill empty spots on both teams until real people join, then they'll take one of the bots' places."

I totally agree. The health should not be lower, as it would change the core of the game too much. Long fights in comparison of other games is one of the distinct characteristics of Renagade. I think the length of fights is perfect the way it is. If you want the fights to be much quicker like BF of COD, you can create the mods yourself when it is released. If the snipers are less accurate that is enough for me. The machine guns are actually pretty good at killing even at range if you shoot at head hight. Although the effectiveness of machine guns is lessened like the sniper rifles with a higher spread than before, it will probably be less of a problem than with snipers. The snipers will be much more a long range weapon as intended, while the machine guns will be the kings of close to medium ranged fights.

To be clear, this is not in game (yet). At this point, all you can do in game is gain credits having an active refinery (2 credits a second, only 1 a second with a broken powerplant), the automatic harvester comes back from the tiberium field (aditional 300 credits) and shooting stuff/blowing stuff up (varies per gun and target). Repairing allied stuff also gives credits, repairing enemy stuff will gain negative credits and points. Friendly fire is (nearly) always off, so that doesn't matter. This is basicly what Anonymously also said in the previous post. Credits can be used at terminals to purchase a different unit (each has a different weapon and health), a tank, a beacon or an airstrike. All units and tanks are unlocked from the start. All you need is enough credits. Classes and ranks aren't in the initial release, and might not be in later releases. As a lot of options are left to the servers themselves, it could be added by a specific server when the modding community gets their hands on this. I'm saying this as you seem a new to Renegade?

If you want it to be fair, you should first look at the build of the teams, not the maps. NOD wins in most maps more often, and doesn't lose much on the other maps. City, City Flying, complex, hourglass and field NOD wins very often. Canyon, glacier, Islands, Under and walls they are more or less tied. Only Walls Flying GDI seems to have a real good upper hand. Pointing out a map lay-out fault might just be that the advantage of NOD is more amplified than the advantage of GDI. Resolving team balance might push GDI to use its advantage better and the map would not need to be changed. This is a better course of action than changing every single map. Lets be fair. NOD is a faction that has a lot of firepower in both units and tanks. They lack in health for their tanks, but they often make up for it in stealth, range, quick travel time of bullets, able to shoot over other tanks (arty over the light tank, stank over the light tank) specific units for all occasions (flametank for those base rushes) and raw awesomeness. GDI has firepower and health with a hefty price tag. The Mammoth in Renegade-mint wasn't even good until the last changes where made and it is still a tank you only take because you have too much money. The tanks of GDI aren't intuitively used excellent, making them vulnerable to NOD tactics. I mean here that you instantly sneak with a stank and wait for the best moment, while you are more prone to just advancing with a med. This leaves a med more easily vulnerable for stanks for example. For NOD they toned the artillery down so it would not overpower so much even in the mint version. This probably why GDI has had a bigger positive overhaul on their vehicles and units in Renegade-X. Rocket pods on the mammoth got better, the supposedly better rotating turret of the MRLS and the better following rockets (if I remember correctly), the tactical rifle and the grenade/shotgun McFarland vs a less loud laser rifle, a meaner looking APC and the stank shoots its rockets just a millisecond after each other. The arty got diminished in a lot of situations due to drop-off. In combination with the airstrike, which will probably beat the shit out of the low health NOD units while GDI can withstand a bombardment, GDI will have a much better position in Renegade-X. I suggest to just wait for Renegade-X to release. If the problem still occurs on a few specific maps, you can suggest map lay-out changes.

I still think it is weird. GDI seems to have enough chances, especially with teamwork. Even if GDI has a disadvantage, I think its not a disadvantage that is bad. Even when losing, the fun is still there. There is enough to move around and not get sniped inside your base (most often), you often have adequate credits and there are enough ways to strike back. That is in my own experience of course. I myself even like it if you have to fight hard and sell your hide for enormous prices. I can be the underdog in a few games without getting annoyed. Winning is all the sweeter too. Just don't let it get into the league games and maybe wait for the release to see if the changed vehicles, systems and added airstrikes will make a difference.

About the airstrikes. Im wondering about the damage to buildings. There are plenty of maps where you can get to middle range from a building. What if you make a rush from it? 5 seconds to put it down, 0 to disarm vs 10 to put it down and 30 (?) To disarm. It seems not fair if you just rush with 5-8 persons and blast a building by standing stil for 5 seconds. Example. Field and NOD goes in full defence. They dispatch 5-8 sbh's with airstrikes before the camp outside is fully developed. They then strike the wf with great ease, as barely anyone around can spot them and stop them. In Field, the game is practically over. 5-8 people might be a lot for the field example, but NOD should be able to defend. Especially with the extra people that servers can now accommodate. In other maps they might even be a strike team, serving a purpose in the fight directly in addition to the strike. Some pathways are easy at times or easy to go to with an apc for example. In complex you could take out the airstrip and the hon from the right side viewed from gdi. Its less/equally expensive than the apc ion rush, but with MUCH less danger and much more inevitable. Ps. 5-8 airstrikes is just an example. It might work perfectly in practice as both parties can do it and the spread etc is different. It is just a concern that defense might become too hard and some attacks unreasonably easy.

I agree with the mrls part. Its greatest asset has been reduced by the rotating turret. If the lock function is added, its strategic importance is suddenly so much higher. Also preventing rockets to follow would be a great addition, as arties at the hon will suddenly be easy to hit. The rockets would follow a directory towards the cursor point instead of the tank middle. These advantages arent limited to field. The rotating turret makes it so much more conventional than the highly specialised weapon that had a great many applications. Sadly also b2b but that has been removed. Gdi will be more effective, as they have more payload style attacks in the mammoth tank. It has a more payload style rockets and shoits twice with a longer loading time. This paired with the normal stuff and airstrikes should do the trick to break it. I do not agree about the dps. Only the light tank is less effective damage wise (or equal?). The apc is equal, but fatter (and looks cooler). Buggy and artillery both do more damage than any supposed counterpart. Granted, the stank does not do more damage than the mammoth but has stealth. The flame tank is a very high damage dealer, even if you alt fire (shoot flames out of the left nozzle only at nearly double damage, even if it shows 2 flames) 《Edit》sorry for tripple post, telephone flipped a bit

That much I understood. My question is what does that mean for when 1 player gets bored and starts spamming off humvees? Will the game let him continue to do that? Theres no limitation for that atm but we could easily add one so that you are only allowed to queue up 3 vehicles every 3 minutes or something. But if someone really wants to be a douchbag you also have the option to place a kickvote against him. If more than 50% vote for kicking him he will be kicked and cant rejoin the server till next map. I foresee a problem. How do you know when your vehicle is being build? Do you get an announcement when they start building? If there are a lot of enemy snipers, its good to know when to run. Also nice to know to which vehicle, so maybe a special colour if you target it (eg. blue?). Less confusion, more real gameplay. Just a thought

The A-10 also drops bombs but you cant see that in the vid (or only if you look very close) as the vid cuts away before the bombs hit the ground (cause we didnt want too long scenes in the trailer). That is so cool. I did the video frame by frame at the airstrikes part, but I missed that. Aaaaaaand another time watching the video. btw the timing of the music and the video is very excellent! I'm glad you didn't add the bombs, as it would have destroyed the timing. The only thing I thought could be better was the end. Maybe an ion strike in the middle of a battle field instead of just an empty part with only the airstrip. The rest was just a perfect 10. Edit: I can't see the bombs falling. Maybe I'm just not seeing it or the screen shake and the explosion prevent me from seeing it.

In addition to and anonymous. The latest video also shows the airstrikes a bit. Its hard to see, but on the islands part you see a gdi tank fly (00:45). Right afterwards you see an a-10 appear, use an heavy machine gun destroying a stealth tank and disappear. Later you see a rocket officer look at an c-130 flying over, shooting with an on-board howitzer cannon (01:01). It damages several tanks, but it is hard to see how much. The A-10 seems to do a lot of specific damage, probably on a small line. The C-130 seems to linger longer, fire less accurate and has a slower fire, but has a larger area of effect and explosions where he hits. In addition to Cirex. The energy bar depletes a bit with every "special" action. Running, jumping and dodging. Also, sbh's would be virtually undetectable when stealthed, unless shot or at closed range. No sound or water splashing I understand. The rest is sufficiently answered by people with much more knowledge then me. Hope this answers most! Ill get the times for the video when the airstrikes hit later.

R315r4z0r, atlas and jam, thank you for the answers. This is really helpful, as I worried that it had been changed too much. This is the very best solution in my opinion. I guess the spread doesn't change when moving. Several suggestions where made that this would not be in line with the original game, altering it too much. Renegade has near constant movement. I like it that way, making it different from many other games. I mean with this that you hardly stop when in a firefight, while other games often force you to slow down. The ads is a good addition I some situations. For Raveshaw and Mendoza. I have to agree that Raveshaw looks a bit young. Adding more lines gives him character and age. Mendoza looks intimidating though. Even so, the extra lines and scars would give him a more intimidating, powerful feel too. All in all minor details on a highly detailed and polished game.

Don't forget that the mouse is better, unless the consoles add an auto-aim again. The first time I played on a console I played Modern Warfare (I think). I shot someone in the head with a grenade launcher twice from the other side of the map. I'm not that lucky. And even then I prefer the mouse.

Can anyone tell me how the down-sight view will work? Is is just a way of zooming in a little bit or really a way of shooting better?

Maybe being able to kill easily and show off? Lots of people have done things just to "win". Cheats that killed everyone with the press of a button. A repairbeam with infinite range that killed instantly. Big head, auto aim, cheats that filled the hp one team and lots of others Ive seen. All because they wanted an advantage to win. Not having a level system is just a minor reason why not to cheat, as the cheating itself makes you better already.

I dont think its supposed to be Renegade. He just wanted to make it look like it. He actually did a good job advertising wise, even if it is far from perfect. Lots of his ideas seem to be exactly like zerk proposed in his "have the devs considered..." thread. He changed it a few hours before the kickstarter was cancelled, but most of it is still there. Probably a deluded 16 year old with dreams of big money, making a capital mistake. Just saying, not enough to judge though.

Oh dont go and make every word so extreme. I like ps2 very much. Its just that Renegade can give a real rush where ps2 doesnt give you that satisfaction. Ps2 is still the best modern shooter I've played. Everything nowadays is build on the mindless killing and mostly sniping. Ps and Renegade make a difference here. About making a stong community. Dont worry about that. The website will go up soon and the I expect some extra categories for the forums too. The news is also helping. Just look at the "Renegade in the news" part and smile. @oompah. The game should be resilient to a lot of cheats. Bh and changing skins will essentially change the version, making it incompatible to play. There is also an inbuilt anti cheat thingy that is supposed to be a good standard anti cheat measure. I believe it. The current Renegade mint community seems less into cheating (at least with extreme cheats like bh. Some do have spongebob timed c4 I hear). There is also the program renguard that was made by the community, preventing cheats. So it will be the new guys you have to watch out for. @drunkill. Why not join xwiss and go on a renegade mint server today?

Whats with all the Planetside 2 references suddenly? I've played it and I'll grant you some similarities. Buying tanks and units and start killing each other. That being said, it is a totally different game. Different units, sides and economy. One of these things is the taking over stuff. You fight over a piece of land (awesome), sometimes for a long time (also awesome) and then you win or lose. Does it matter? Not much, because you can take it back later. Every victory is a bit like a "thats nice" and every defeat is a "meh" moment. Your progress or defeat doesn't feel like it matter. There is no true defeat, nor true victory. This allows for a lot of people not to take it seriously, making it a not very committing game to me. With Renegade there is a defeat of a team. When you destroy a building, it is gone for the rest of the game. When you destroy a tank, it feels much more like a tactical advancement. You try your best not to lose. If you come back from certain death, the victory is all the sweeter. In Planetside it can only be taken from you again.

I think the gameplay would be affected too much. The best way I see this happening, is connecting the CY to either a few units (hotwire, volt auto rifle, combat rifle and laser chain gun for example) and/or make it a sort of tech building with an extra effect (slow repair of all buildings, adding a choosable extra unit or weapon or something). Nothing as drastic as messing with the basic units.

Don't forget that no single strategy always works. All "winning" strategies are build upon other strategies. Often a close combination of tanks and dispersion of units/unit types is the way to go. I noticed a game where my team hardly had any snipers (I was so surprised). The amount of Raveshaws I had to battle against was overwhelming and no tanks and other units could seem to break it. It took a long while before that finally happened by intensive teamwork. Its just one of the examples that nearly every game is. But on topic, I think he just wants to get some cnc RTS feeling into the game. The problem with basebuilding and the other cnc strategies is that games will take way to long. You will notice that if people play an intense and awesome fight long enough, people start to dislike it. With basebuilding this would be the case. Awesome yes, but ruining in the end. Playeronesvk, the strategy is there my friend. You will just have to play and you will see the intense battles form like you never seen before. No frantically running around trying to get your favourite weapon. No trying to be the best on your own. You will get fights that matter with your enemy. You chose your weapons and vehicles with care. Every death is a loss to your own economy and every hit a boon. Every building you take out is a real prize that you will cheer about. Every building you lose a handicap that will make you adopt different strategies and fight much more fierce. Joining at any time, often without a great handicap. Not giving up even in defeat, making them pay double or much more before they can execute the final blow. Or just bringing the thunder when you finally have them beat and burn them down with a mass of fame tanks. The greatness of this game never ceases to amaze me. Renegade-X will extend that feeling even more.

It was neither a money succes nor a succes in many gameplay ways. Still, the community and internet is still strong in comparison to nearly every other game on existence. Partly because no sequel has been made, partly because the only thing that can kill Renegade, is Renegade itself. I call that a success

I wish it had got canned =( You mean Tiberium, ofcourse. I think it would be another let down if released actually.

I can only say that you have outdone the expectations and yourself again. Compliments! Airstrikes look like small area's. In the wider maps it will feature quite nicely I think. Still worried about the weapon recoil.