Anonymously

It is still an arcade game, remember. Prone and lean take away from that feel, and so would a widening reticle. Keep in mind that it is a first and third person game too. No need to change too much from the original Renegade.

Always exciting to see and play with old familiar names again. Looking forward to it. Gozy, your signature doesn't seem to be working?

Yep. That's the same file I've been using all along. That along with some of my own calculations that take warhead and armortype into consideration

Any chance you still have logs/access to the stats? As the name and signature suggest, I would prefer to remain anonymous.

If I was leading this 5v5 game, there'd be 2 lights and 3 arts with techs inside the arts using cover, while the light tanks are up front trying to draw and evade the fire. It'd be kind of stupid for a nod team to try to use 3 arts with 2 techs in the first place if they have the credits to get light tanks instead (they should if each GDI player has 800+ credits). I agree. GDI can barricade nod quite efficiently on Field. They would have to do that for the full 30-35 minutes (if we're talking competitive play) for them to win though. If nod even takes the field for 5 minutes, they will take the lead normally. The Arty's ability to hit the WF from such a great distance and do so much damage cannot be matched by GDI's ability to hit the hon closeup with a medium tank, meanwhile nod has tech'd arties firing back at them. If they rushed in together, they'd be killed immediately, and then nod would take the field. If all 5 try and hold the field, 1 nod simply lays a nuke, forcing 1 GDI player to suicide. That nod player either defends the nuke or rejoins the battle to retake field. Then nod has successfully taken the field back 9/10 times. It's just too hard for GDI to do as much damage as Nod can. I'm very curious to see if that has any actual proof behind it, or is just a mere claim to try and make Renegade look better than the game in comparison. I've played in both the TK2 and BI servers (I even helped test BI servers from time to time), and the results were the same. Jelly had multiple AOW servers (including mini), and though no stats were ever published to my knowledge; having played there, I can say that it was the same. On Field I barely even have to try to win as nod on public servers, but on GDI I have to try hard and still have to rely on a better overall team to win the game. I'd be very shocked if EWD or SE have actual evidence of these numbers, rather than it simply being a hopeful claim. Yes, GDI has the early game advantage on any map because of their superior automatic rifle damage. This plays a gigantic role on map like city/city_fly, but not too great on Field. For one, if the teams are of equal skill, nod should almost always still be able to defend and keep their harvester alive. And for two, Even if GDI kills the nod harvester, they still have to wait in order to purchase their first med tank. The 300 credit drop from the harvester won't be enough for them. They'd get a MRLS at best. It still gives nod enough time to purchase their first arty before a GDI med can take the field. Keep in mind that the stock Renegade crate spawns either mid tunnel or on the nod side, so nod usually has an advantage in getting that crate. These are simply the only final win ratio statistics I could find. I've been playing the game since it's 2002 release and have experienced the same overall nod dominance on the map since then, regardless of the server. Yes I agree. Once again, this was simply to inform using my Renegade knowledge; I recognize that your intentions are the same and I respect that. It's what happens after the Field is taken that I am pointing out. I've only seen a handful of games where a GDI team has successfully held the Field from start to end. I'm pointing out that Nod's ability to gain points/do building damage on Field is so much easier than GDI's ability to do the same, that it ends up being easy for nod to win. GDI can have the Field for 25 minutes, and nod can have it for 10, and nod would end up winning by points the majority of the time. I think it would make a huge difference personally. Thanks for keeping the argument peaceful and informative so far.

Yes I just find it to be aggravating that the game is almost 12 years old now, and someone is still claiming that it "was" bad. The fact that they say "was" when it is still an active game says enough. If someone is going to claim a 12 year old game is bad in a review, they may as well try it out again to reassure themselves, rather than simply go off of what their original experience was with the game. Sort of like when Diablo 3's servers couldn't hold the amount of people that were trying to login in the first few days. They've since added servers and almost entirely fixed the issue, yet people still complain about the poor servers. I guess first impressions are the most lasting ones - which was never a good thing for Renegade.

Always aggravates me to see someone claim that Renegade was not a good game. The singleplayer was poor and the multiplayer had glitches and lag galore when it was first released. It's been patched and edited so much since the release that for people to claim it is not a good game just shows that they are making a review based off of a game they maybe tried a few times when it was first released. Sorry, but if you're going to make a review - do your research. But at least they are recognizing Renegade X and getting it publicity I suppose.

The small game section is taken into account in the original post's statistics. You are right that Jelly normally does have a high player count (as proven by the numbers), however, the stats still favor nod drastically (34-13); and even moreso, in the smaller game atmosphere at Jelly than the bigger games. In my experience, with two equal skilled teams, nod will win 90% of the games on Field, regardless of the player count or vehicle limit. A lower vehicle count actually favors nod more than GDI when you take into account that Nod has the ability to utilize technicians more than GDI has the ability to utilize hotwires on Field. Oh? I respectfully disagree. Allow me to use a bit of mathematical proof as evidence. A single tech'd arty will kill a med tank in ~13 seconds. A single med will kill a tech'd arty in ~5 minutes (yes, you read that right). Now, what you're saying is that (somehow) GDI was able to get 5 med tanks, and for whatever reason, nod only decided to get 3 arties and 2 technicians. Once again, somehow, all of these tanks happened to meet in the field at the exact same time. Taking away the improbability of this to begin with, nod will still manage to win out a cool majority of the time if we're talking about experienced and quality players. I could put scenarios in all day to prove it; but to save time, I simply put the end game results in statistical format in the original post. Starting credits at the Jelly marathon in specific are the default 0, and donations are not allowed until something like 3 or 5 minutes in. The only difference is the crate giving more than the default crate gives. I'm not certain how little you play anymore, but Jelly has never had starting credits, and donation is only turned on after a timelimit, as previously stated. Not when the teams are of equal skill level... I'll go ahead and ask myself then. I prefer nod every damn time. The most recent 5 1v1 Field games I played (against elite players, have you), I went 4-1. I was nod in 3 and GDI in 2. I won all 3 with nod, and one with GDI. Nod went 4-1 in the games. I'm a very experienced player (having played clanwars, lobby wars, community wars, etc. pretty often). I've played both with you and against you before as well. I don't remember you ever participating in a clanwar, but I remember you in community wars in particular. I also know you from Renegadeforums.com, where you used to actively moderate. I'm just unsure on how much actual small game Field experience you have if you honestly believe GDI is superior on the map? Not to offend, but it can't be a whole lot against real elite players... In AOW, hitting buildings gets your more points than anything else. Getting more points wins you the game. In marathon, you have to hit a building or rush a building to win the game. Nod has a huge advantage in hitting buildings and rushing buildings on Field. I'm not judging the map on the building placements, I'm criticizing the layout of the map, and providing statistical evidence proving that it is flawed in that it drastically favors one faction. My suggestion was to get rid of the ramp next to the Hand of Nod. In no way was I suggesting editing any unit. It's not really "some miracle" neither. Though Westwood and EA did not glitch test the game very well, they spent the majority of their time balance testing. If you look at the objects files or the damage calculations in Renegade, you'd probably understand that more.

Ah yes, from that it appears to be very similar

Any chance we can get an overhead snapchat view of the map? It's hard for me to compare it to the original map without yet ever playing it. I was just curious to as why it was still being called "mesa" when the mesa aspect to the map was actually entirely removed lol. But yeah, if the layout is the same, then I see your point. Personally, I still see plenty of differences from the original map (enough to allow you to give it a new name ), but that's just me again.

I'm going to go ahead and bump this topic rather than make a whole new one. Is there any chance we can view the models of each tank and their weak/strong points, and how much extra damage is done per hit to each specific point? It's an interesting idea, but I'm undecided yet as to if it will be a positive addition or a negative addition into the game. I suppose it would take testing in order for me to form a full opinion.

Alright, fair enough I'm aware of the original Renegade map name, but it just seems as if it looks like a brand new map entirely. I recognize the layout being fairly similar, but there's also a lot of differences (don't get me wrong - I very much like that it is different). If I were you, I would have renamed it and said it was "Inspired from the original Renegade map "Mesa."" But that's just me, since I'm nitpicking Once again though, it does look absolutely beautiful and I can tell a lot of time and effort was put into it. Cannot wait to see how it plays.

The map looks stunning from the video and I cannot wait to play it. One question though. It doesn't exactly appear to be a mesa? A mesa is defined as having a relatively flat top (such as a tabletop). This, for example is a Mesa: However, this is what is shown in the video as the "Mesa:" Love the map from the video alone, but I'm curious to as why it is being called "Mesa" when the center actually looks more like a regular mountain than a plateau at all? I suppose it is a tiny bit flat, but not enough to be considered a "mesa." Sorry if I'm nitpicking, but it just seemed odd to me.

Yes I understand that. I'm just saying that stock Renegade only had the yellow box options, and so that's what clanwars has always used. Since competitive servers won't be hosted by the Renegade X team themselves, that would mean that clanwars servers would all have to follow one specific crate system (in order to keep each server consistent). Since the Renegade ones were 100/refill crates, then I think that the default crate options should be limited to just that, and then server owners can edit it from there.

Thanks for the answers. For the 100 credits/refill crate - I was talking about the default yellow box. In competitive play, these are the only available options in the crate - and they play a rather large early game role. Having default crates have spy crates and more than 100 credits would be too much for a competitive style game (such as a clanwar).