PUB Commanding

[Mystic~]

Is there some sort of solution to make doing public commanding less toxic? I want the experience so I can get good enough thinking on my feet so maybe I'll feel competent enough to command a weekend PUG game without fearing I'm going to ruin everybody's fun by not being fit for the position.

I had a good game of Islands going on this evening, I was commanding against another player (I don't remember his name or usually recognise him), and it felt like it was equally matched for a while until we took the Nod refinery down by a GDI tank wave with a cp offensive power. Later Quincy joined the game on the opposite team and he took command of Nod, which I thought made things somewhat unmatched in commander skills, but okay, I'll stick with it. I tried a mid-game infantry mobi rush through tunnels but we were spotted by a single flame thrower and it was rather futile at the other end as they were very prepared; should have waited or redirected to field. Quincy managed to get our weapons factory down to almost half health with an SBH infiltration with a few other team members. By the time our cp was saved up again for another plan, I was accepting ideas from the team. I rejected some zany plan of APCs filled with rockets by Kira who seemed to be insisting we must lose the field in order to free capacity to use the tunnels, but I know what happens as soon GDI gets base locked on this map. I agreed on someone's idea contribution to hit the Airstrip and we were prepping mobius again. I was waiting for 1400 cp thinking at first this was what we needed and even said "wait for cp" and realised late that defensive power was the idea which was only 1200 cp and followed up with a "nvm" in the chat after remembering. Whilst I'm still typing into chat boxes communicating somebody else takes it upon them self to prematurely lead the rush off and everybody else follows like sheep even though their commander is not with them. By the time I've realised what they've done, they're on their own at this point, I'm so far behind still at base and out of position. They did some good damage anyway, but failed to destroy the building. 

After re-spawning, someone else exasperatingly types "commander..." and then someone calls an out vote to get me out. Too Sexy For... I presume this was you. However many votes, maybe 10 out of 32, I was gone. Maybe I should have been the one to call a vote-kick to remove the person that started the rush early without their commander, unfortunately I didn't think to do this at the time.

Now who's fault is this? I didn't issue any radio command that said "move out", you certainly didn't see me or a person with the "commander" label in your group and you didn't see /C Go! on your screen, but everyone went anyway. It's reasonable to assume that unless stated otherwise the commander is going to lead the attack, and if there's some intelligent players around you, they'll move in front so the commander doesn't get killed en route.

Vote out behaviour like this makes me so angry I want to hurt somebody, in the past it's usually somebody who calls a commander vote because they want to use all the CP thinking they can magically make everything alright and in a pub game it doesn't take much for people to F1. People have no appreciation for how much energy goes into game strategy and keeping tabs on what's happening all over the battlefield. I felt like my whole contribution to that particular game at that point was invalidated and the people voting were all late joiners. There were no prior complaints or nobody took any effort to communicate anything clearly. I stuck around for the next rush, all that cp still available, and they did EXACTLY the same thing I had done previously as a failed Mobi rush to the Hon, so that wound me up even more.

After this I was so angry I switched teams, despite already basically taking out our own refinery earlier in the game. GDI did more of the same and their rushes were all countered relatively easily despite what seemed like some heavy tank pressure at times. I noticed the GDI commander seemed to switch again between different players, possibly several times, for whatever reason. At the late game, a successful Dozer rush lead by Quincy finished off the Barracks and Weapons Factory in one rush and the refinery finally fell to artillery from the field.

If somebody is 'THAT' awful, then sure, I agree, there needs to be some way of changing the commander, but I'm tired of getting a mid game vote out for really-fucking-stupid-reasons. I almost feel it should be down to a commander to pass on the role and say if they are tired, overwhelmed or lack of creative play etc. 

 

[roweboat]

Sorry to hear you had that experience. I'll bottom line it for you...

to be a public commander you gotta have some backbone. And it takes earning the trust of other players, which can take time.

I'm not even the best commander so take anything I say with a grain of salt. 

When commanding was first introduced, I was hesitant. I didn't know what to do, but I quickly learned most others didn't either LOL. 

You just gotta keep trying, keep experimenting and find out what works best (believe me, when it isn't best you'll find out quick haha)

I use "/r" instead of "/c", I heard "/r" lasts longer so that's what I do. Another tip, you can open the chat (this works for all chats including console commands), and hit the "up arrow" on the keyboard to quickly bring up previously typed chats. Very useful when trying to rally the team for a rush.

 

And if you see multiple people in game switching to commander that means a few things... either no one is getting along, everyone has different ideas... or watch out cuz someone is a key position and about to launch a big attack lol.

 

It's like they say, when you get knocked down, you just gotta pick yourself back up and keep trying =D

[Guest once upon the time]

It's just a game even if everyone wants to win.
Depending on the number of players, you have plenty of different ideas about what you should do in the game. In pub games it is much harder to get people under a hat.
If you have been voted out as a commander then that's the way it is, nobody dying.
I would not take it so seriously, as it is really just a game and if you take it too seriously you lose your fun, see your move to the other team.
Just stay relaxed and as Rowe (the wise) has already written:

4 hours ago, roweboat said:

to be a public commander you gotta have some backbone. And it takes earning the trust of other players, which can take time.

Keep having fun and do not get excited about making a rage quit or change teams.

[Quinc3y]

Ah yes, that Islands game was a gg

I agree that mental fortitude is needed to be a commander both in PUGs and and PUBs. After all, you're often the person to blame if the team is losing, people will demand that you come up with plans (and by a plan they mean a rush, because they don't consider "take control of the field" to be a real plan, it's too boring for most), people will demand that you control the harvester, de-mine buildings, mark targets, use CP correctly, listen to their suggestions, etc.... it can be a lot of work that can be overwhelming for some. That's why there aren't many willing to command. Surely, earning people's trust & respect makes things easier. Although even the best commanders will get flamed occasionally.

I also agree that voting out / volunteering to be a new commander without even talking to the current commander is a bit toxic. Especially if the current commander is trying his ass off to make something work. People often don't appreciate it enough.

Some general commanding tips I can give:

1. Use the mini-map often. The default key is M, but I have it bound to my mouse because of how useful it is. It gives you intel on how the game is shaping and who controls vehicle / infantry areas. It can give you a hint where the enemy rush can come from. It can help you make decisions which map area to reinforce and whether it is a good time to rush or no. If you see that most of the team is in field, then organizing an infantry rush will take a lot of time & will likely lead to losing field. Is it worth it? Etc.

2. Learn all commander powers. All have their own use and can make a difference. Smoke, EMP, and cruise are generally more tricky and require more practice to make best use of. If you're a beginner, start with using radar scans and buffs during rushes. 

3. Try to respond to people's suggestions. It can be a lot effort, but I think it's worth it to comment on what teammates write on the chat. This way the team is more organized. I personally don't like it when I try to gather people to do something and, at the same time, there's 2 other guys giving other orders. There should only be one commander in order to reduce chaos. Your team should always have clear instructions on what to do.

[noxidevad]

Too touch up on what @Quinc3y has said with reference to "That's why there aren't many wiling to command" I have always refused to go in to commander role for the reasons stated above, plus i have the least experience role wise as i have only just returned after a hiatus. Just doesn't seem worth the hassle, time and effort to be fair. However im sure as time ticks on then i will one day be confident enough to stepup and take that role once i have earned that status.

People are always going to point blame as to who was at fault for something going down ( i won't name any names but there is a good 2-3 people i have noticed who are the constant whiners/complainers when something goes down) but when it's a respected memeber who is commander and a building is lost i have noticed that those same serial whiners/complainers say nothing. It's only mouth from them when it's a not-usually recognised commander at the helm. 

Some good tips there from Quinc3y and hopefully it does not discourage you from this role. 

I go on the belief of win some lose some. I take nothing too heart, and i don't let it affect me (regardless of the f-bombs i may drop on recodings) keep the chin up and don't let it bother you too much.

[Mystic~]

Thanks for the tips, I'm finding I do most of these things now anyway. I'm probably least habitually aware of missing mines (as commander) or harvesters and I think others in the team should be able to have some sort of neutral command-controls for these things. Islands is basically, do we vehicle rush or do we infantry rush, and if so, what infantry...

Before I was winning/losing almost 50:50 percent of the time, I find if I vote in late because nobody else wants to take it, we often lose as the early game can be so important.

But as I say, I was putting a lot of effort into that game and I considered winning still a possibility, and to be voted out under those conditions was really silly and irritating. I'd like to suggest being able to have some sort of 'fixed term' during a game for the commander role so someone can't be so easily removed based on a handful of people's opinions. I didn't see anybody else do a single thing better after I was gone. With 32 people all in the team, I think there were at least 2 other planners attempting to organise things and using vote rather than letting me use the commander prompter. I like the previously discussed Captain's or Sub-Commander idea, but no idea if this is really being implemented or not.

My own tip: I use /R to state the central goal - Rush meeting @ Bar and the I place /C for adding additional information like "The target will be Hon" / "Bring Gunners" or whatever and the messages will appear under each other. And then I use the arrow keys to keep cycling through and re-showing them so there's always a long R message on screen and a few quick C messages repeating. With this I think it's hard for people to go wrong. I don't do the "Rush gathering at hon!! 3 of 10" anymore, this always seemed to be ignored.

@Silent I don't agree with much of what you said, it was challenging and I was having fun up until the douche called a vote. Your attitude towards the type of situation I described is very dismissive and seems to bypass basic human emotion, maybe you can just ignore all of this, but then why even bother putting in any effort if you don't care any longer? I can do this when I'm new to a game and learning so I don't get angry for either my own mistakes or being killed over and over or attacking people personally when they kill me. But there are things I don't want to just accept or tolerate.

This part will sound a bit odd, but I'm aware the mind constantly projects a holographic/psychic reality we all inwardly live and experience. Even though we all live in different physical locations and countries, in this mental space we're effectively grouping together without constraints of time/space. We get our thoughts, energy and emotions from here, but equally I don't want to hang around certain people and become drained and take on physical stress I have to meditate out.

[Tytonium]

Being a commander in this game can either lead to feeling immense gratification or complete and utter misery. You are expected to lead your entire team to victory, and no matter what the end result of the match is, people will blame the defeat or victory upon you.

Believe me I hate that it is like that but it is the reality. I don't think it's fair to blame the commander a lot of the time because they are always limited by two things, their team and the map. There is only so much a commander can do for organized rushes that are viable during a match. So I'm sure you understand it probably isn't your fault if you are commanding a gdi team with infantry players that are not as good as NODs, and you end up losing on islands. There is only so much a shitty little rush down a narrow choke point filled tunnel is going to be able to get done, but I mean what other options do you have on Islands besides holding the field and hoping to God SBH's don't get away with something stupid.

As a commander you have one job. You are the one that needs to decide IF you should rush, not when you should rush. It is your job to seek out a weakness in the enemy's defense and then construct a plan around it.

Do not let team mates organize a rush just for the sake of rushing or defeat will be imminent. People might start getting angry at you for a supposed lack of command, but you can't give in to their demands for a rush that isn't going to work.

Trust your guts commander, act on instinct, and do what YOU think will work. If your team doesn't help you do your rushes, then it is their defeat, not yours.

I suppose the point of all of this is just ignore the angerous screaming people. Always realize what you can/could do to be better when commanding but also know when a defeat is not the result of your commanding.

 

 

 

 

 

Also read the Art of War by Sun Tzu, a ton of stuff is absolutely relevant with commanding in this game.

Edited December 1, 2019 by Tytonium

[roweboat]

[Mystic~]

Well the sad thing is, if they had waited a little longer and I had got my attention away from typing I'd have eventually given the move out order and I'd have been able to apply a buff power alongside them, even without this it almost worked, but I wasn't able to follow it other than on the mini-map and I ended up out of position killing people in the long tunnel instead anyway when I did leave. They clearly expected me to be following them, but the fatal mistake was someone else attempting to wrestle control of issuing orders, whilst I was typing, whilst facing a wall console or something and still questioning what cp we needed. This seemed to piss them off and I suddenly became the commander who lead the attack on destroying the Nod Refinery to a great inconvenience for them. After this ungrateful attitude, I switched sides and we won.

I've had loses where people have said as open feedback, "If you had listened to the commander xyz rush would have worked", I don't mind this as much when I'm commanding. I enjoy winning and I can't stand people who complain or engage in power plays, especially when they're not prepared to communicate their problems or they wouldn't have taken the role themselves in the first place, basically it's a lot of back seat passive commanding believing they can do better in the moment. It's also usually the angry screaming people whom initiate the vote out option, or elect themselves (same thing).

I might buy the audio book for that recommendation, gives me something to listen to at the gym.

[Handepsilon]

Moral of the story :

1. Always blame yourself before anybody else

2. Learn the concept of Chain of Command

This is literally why many people is uneasy about commanding. Being put in a position where someone can easily blame you is just...  bad for mental health

[crazfulla]

On 12/2/2019 at 5:49 PM, Handepsilon said:

Moral of the story :

1. Always blame yourself before anybody else

2. Learn the concept of Chain of Command

This is literally why many people is uneasy about commanding. Being put in a position where someone can easily blame you is just...  bad for mental health

True that. Being the boss is a lot of reaponsibility. Some places I have worked I wouldn't have wanted to be the supervisor lol. So the same logic applies both in-game and IRL.

I have been comm a few times now, other people have even started voting me rather than me just sticking my hand up. Was com on your survival server just before and for the first time that I'm aware of, we beat all 12 waves.

I gotta take my hat off to the team though, I forget their names. They functioned really well and responded quickly to the /c pop ups I was doing. It isn't all about the commander, you need a team that functions well together and in public games (even sometimes in PUGs) that can be difficult to find.

[Madkill40]

Commanding a weekend PUG is massively different compared to a PUB game