Suggestions for some changes

[ex_member]

...

Edited September 22, 2018 by ex_member

[Guest Gliven]

1 hour ago, dr.schrott said:

So, what I think might be OK, could be from a someone else perspecitve seen completely different.

Therefore, use this topic for discussing the pros and cons, as we need to have in mind that any change has an impact on the balance in the game.

1.) Chemical trooper
- reduce the damage ( spray units require less aiming and should not do that much damage per 1s )

What about a damage drop off? Less powerful, the farther away. My personal opinion, the chem grenade should go, or at least no upfront damage from grenade. Only sustained burn damage. Crowd control potential for chems right now, is ridiculous. Still useless in the field, but in tight quarters, very useful. 

2.) Officers
- reduce the ammo for 20%
- make GDI and Nod officer have the same characteristics or explain why should there be a difference for a standard unit

Sounds reasonable, but i haven't played officer enough to give my own opinion on this.

3.) Snipers
- disable scoping while jumping
- if possible, provide a mouse sensitivity setting for scoping

Agree.

Mouse sensitivity per character would be a cool feature too.

4.) Patch
-reduce the range
-increase the spread (imao, should be slightly bigger than by Mendoza as Patch is doing a splash/area damage and has the advantage of the Grenade)

As someone who uses LCG a lot, this would be greatly appreciated.

5.) Mobius
-reduce the splash damage for alternate fire by 40% (now it is capable on doing a 1 shot kill against 1k units, despite the weaker units)

I'd actually like to see the alt fire removed completely....but that is just me

6.) Sidney/Rav
- create a loading delay for each shot (make them anti tank units)

A lot of people, myself included have suggested this. Basically make the PIC and rail gun, act like the spartan laser from the Halo games. You need to charge up the shot. Keep the same DPS by skipping the reload after each shot. Make the charge up time, the same duration the reload would have used. Or a whole new, charge up-shoot-cool down.

This would need a new animation though.

 

Edited March 28, 2018 by Gliven

[vandal33]

Chem warriors right now can barely win against an officer at close range. They are meant to be close-combat specialist so the ease of aiming with good damage is all they are good at.

[Radeon3]

14 hours ago, Gliven said:

14 hours ago, dr.schrott said:

So, what I think might be OK, could be from a someone else perspecitve seen completely different.

Therefore, use this topic for discussing the pros and cons, as we need to have in mind that any change has an impact on the balance in the game.

1.) Chemical trooper
- reduce the damage ( spray units require less aiming and should not do that much damage per 1s )

What about a damage drop off? Less powerful, the farther away. My personal opinion, the chem grenade should go, or at least no upfront damage from grenade. Only sustained burn damage. Crowd control potential for chems right now, is ridiculous. Still useless in the field, but in tight quarters, very useful.

Maybe revert its unnecessary buffs from 5.31.

2.) Officers
- reduce the ammo for 20%
- make GDI and Nod officer have the same characteristics or explain why should there be a difference for a standard unit

Sounds reasonable, but i haven't played officer enough to give my own opinion on this.

"Because of solar power"

3.) Snipers
- disable scoping while jumping
- if possible, provide a mouse sensitivity setting for scoping

Agree.

Mouse sensitivity per character would be a cool feature too.

Agree with both, altough it's very situational to jump straight up to shoot at somebody. Not sure about jumping sideways to quickscope midair.

4.) Patch
-reduce the range
-increase the spread (imao, should be slightly bigger than by Mendoza as Patch is doing a splash/area damage and has the advantage of the Grenade)

As someone who uses LCG a lot, this would be greatly appreciated.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

5.) Mobius
-reduce the splash damage for alternate fire by 40% (now it is capable on doing a 1 shot kill against 1k units, despite the weaker units)

I'd actually like to see the alt fire removed completely....but that is just me

I don't think that a barely used alternative firing mode should be nerfed.

6.) Sidney/Rav
- create a loading delay for each shot (make them anti tank units)

A lot of people, myself included have suggested this. Basically make the PIC and rail gun, act like the spartan laser from the Halo games. You need to charge up the shot. Keep the same DPS by skipping the reload after each shot. Make the charge up time, the same duration the reload would have used. Or a whole new, charge up-shoot-cool down.

This would need a new animation though.

I'm glad we're coming back to that Syd/Rav is still overused as it's better at killing infantry than vehicles and even used for infiltrating buildings aided by his EMP grenade. I'm lazy so gonna quote myself from half a year ago: " add a charge up time after pulling the trigger. Don’t need much, just 250-400 ms. In technical terms elegantly put the idle time before shots instead of after them. Would fit the weapons characteristics nicely. Vehicles could be just as easily hit as before, but infantry would be fairly protected, yet still killable with some real skill." No need for animation, just a sound of charging itself up. Alternatively add the same treatment to it what the snipers have: ADS - no spread, hipfire - spread.

 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Radeon3
topys

[HuskerDoggo]

Chems:
- I'd say just a range decrease and/or damage dropoff over range.

Officers:
- Reduced magazine yes.
- Are they different then?

Snipers:
- scoped sensitivity could be a good option.

Patch:
- im love patch dont make him worse (for serious maybe he could have a lower rof to balance it a bit)

Syd/Rav:
- a very small but still noticeable increase in wait time between shots is good.
- or go back to bolt action no magazine like og

Edited March 29, 2018 by HuskerDoggo

[Madkill40]

On 3/29/2018 at 4:57 PM, HuskerDoggo said:

Officers:
- Reduced magazine yes.

Reduce the magazine of a chaingun? That seems silly.

[Sn4ke]

Mendoza:

reduce alt fire dmg against buildings

LCG:

reduce armour (or buff Gunner's armour)

remove unlimited clips* (unnecessary since latest speed buff)

* for SBH as well

CHEM / FARTY:

revert price changes and hell yeah revert chem dmg buff it's just ridiculous

 

On 29.3.2018 at 5:57 PM, HuskerDoggo said:

- Are they different then?

yes they are - Nod Officer is faster, GDI Officer has more armour

[HuskerDoggo]

On 3/31/2018 at 12:36 AM, Madkill40 said:

Reduce the magazine of a chaingun? That seems silly.

i think its 200 now? it could easily be just 150.
and yes i know chainguns technically dont have magazines

[yosh56]

Recruit chain gun is 150 mag size

[HuskerDoggo]

And veteran, elite, heroic?

[Tommy]

I wouldn't reduce the mag size of officer but I would give him a spinup like the LCG and maybe give him some more spray.

[Axesor]

It already got to the point where playing infantry is so frustrating for me for all units being so nerfed, that I dont know what unit I have to choose to do any impact.And this is no longer enjoyable.

• Wtf is SBH now? You can remove his weapons from him. He almost cannot defend himself anyway.
• Wtf is shotgunner now? Dmg so low, shooting slow.
• why would you nerf officer even more, while he is so weak already?
• who play marksman these days?

The only way to push with infantry is thro lucky instakills, and cheap techniques, that force to move enemy back.. such as c4.

Also this unecessary bright names, health and boxes around the player makes it nightmare for me to aim for being too distracting.

Once we had a short discussion about this balancing topic. Either you can try to balance by nerfing or buffing. But I feel this fell into extreme. Time for some general buffs guys!! Make every unit great in its own way.

Also its not only about dmg/per sec... You have to consider time to kill in practice. If u r standing still, well its ur fault for dying too fast. Just saying. Chem trooper is not OP in any way..

The only thing I agree with is Sidney/Rav nerf, bcs there is no other way how to reduce chance for being instakilled from this antitank unit. Instakill chances should be always low.. expecialy in this high TTK game.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Axesor

[Guest Gliven]

1 hour ago, Axesor said:

Wtf is SBH now? You can remove his weapons from him. He almost cannot defend himself anyway.

SBH is and always has been super powerfull....

 

1 hour ago, Axesor said:

Wtf is shotgunner now? Dmg so low, shooting slow.

The only thing shotgunner needs is a better way to demonstrate where the shell spread is. I have no idea where i am hitting. You either get a headshot and do tonnes of damage...or you do like 10%, i feel like there is no in-between.

 

1 hour ago, Axesor said:

why would you nerf officer even more, while he is so weak already?

Weak? not at all. Officers can 1v1 almost any infantry, aside from doza and mobius, what else can counter them?

But i dont feel like they need a nerf

 

1 hour ago, Axesor said:

who play marksman these days?

Early game marksmen are good for taking out the early harvy rush, or harassing snipers late game if you lost the hon/bar. But they are a high skill character.

1 hour ago, Axesor said:

The only way to push with infantry is thro lucky instakills, and cheap techniques, that force to move enemy back.. such as c4.

Sounds like you are just getting outplayed....

1 hour ago, Axesor said:

Also this unecessary bright names, health and boxes around the player makes it nightmare for me to aim for being too distracting.

Legacy.

Also, i like this....I do not find this distracting at all.

1 hour ago, Axesor said:

Chem trooper is not OP in any way..

Its OP in tight quarters, which i think is okay. But it still needs to be tweeked. Chems have too much burst damage, and they can attack multiple units at the same time without the need to aim. But in long engagements even soldiers can kill them.

 

What i dont like is, how everyone is trying to balance the game around a unit to unit comparison. gunner vs lcg, mobius vs doza, etc. Instead of a team wide balance. Trying to make symmetry in an A-symmetrical game.

[OTT]

Non of the infantry are OP right now,not at all OP.

If you think some characters are OP,then you are wrong,they are just less shit than the rest.

[Sn4ke]

5 hours ago, Axesor said:

Wtf is SBH now? You can remove his weapons from him. He almost cannot defend himself anyway.

SBH was never meant to be a commando unit which you'll buy to fight 5 enemies at once. It's a hit and run ninja, good for team infiltration (rep tool or outside c4 - BOTH methods require teamwork, especially the outside c4 attempt) and also very strong against tanks, if you have 2-3 SBHs they can take out most vehicles easily - just hit it from different angles from a spot where you're unlikely to get splashed. + the SMG is pretty strong against any infantry.

6 hours ago, Axesor said:

why would you nerf officer even more, while he is so weak already?

Officers are only weak while reloading (if you dont switch to side arm).

 

6 hours ago, Axesor said:

who play marksman these days?

depends on the map / situation. just take a look at the dmg table, you call that weak? actually Marksman should get nerfed. way too much range.

https://wiki.renegade-x.com/wiki/Marksman_Rifle#Damage_Table

 

[Madkill40]

All infantry play fairly well for what they are, based on worth and tier. Officer's are useless against vehicles but good against infantry. They have a large clip size because it is a chaingun and a chain of less than 150 rounds ain't much of a chain.

SBH's rifle is difficult to hit with but with good accuracy (like most weapons) it is incredibly deadly. 

Infantry seem fairly balanced to me.

[vandal33]

Chem warriors are fine right now, they are meant to be expert at close combat, but officers can still win them.

Officers are meant to be good against infantry, giving them nerf would doom teams without barracks or hand of nod even more.

Marksmen are okay but I would favor a slight buff for them. Non-hitscan weapons make them not as dangerous as a long-range weapon should be at long range.

Shotgun troopers are the only thing that I think needs a change. I blasted a stationary crouching engineer at close range with iron sights only deals 40% damage (he was capturing a silo and I was right next to the MCT) and he ran away while I was pumping. If I was using an automatic rifle, I would have killed him and possibly a second engineer if any were nearby.

[Axesor]

Marksman: Nerfing Marksman even more? What the hell? He needs its instant hit back, and 12 bullet in magazine by default (18max)!

Shotgunner: Free shotgunner should not be able to instakill anyone (again, its free unit), but I think that there needs to be some kind of minimum damage limit and its max fire rate should be 0.85s instead of current 1.5s, and lower it down to 0.7s at max veterancy level.

Flamer/Chem: Its an absolute nightmare for flamers/chems to hit a zig-zagging target. Free soldier is able to outplay this units with ease in close range! Its not even close of being OP.

Mobius: Instead of being able to instakill anyone with its secondary fire, its damage vs infantry should be calculated in % instead of actual numbers. From 20-95% damage (depends on charged energy), that is dealt to everyone within its explosion radius.

All units are so shitty to play. One is more poopy than another. Just becouse of this approach of nerfing everything I lost interests in playing. I dont want this game to be low TTK, I dont care about current TTK.

Make infantry great pls.

 

[Calvin]

11 hours ago, Axesor said:

Marksman: Nerfing Marksman even more? What the hell? He needs its instant hit back, and 12 bullet in magazine by default (18max)!

Marksman is hitscan tho.. 

[Guest Gliven]

11 hours ago, Axesor said:

Flamer/Chem: Its an absolute nightmare for flamers/chems to hit a zig-zagging target. Free soldier is able to outplay this units with ease in close range! Its not even close of being OP.

LOL what? You just have to aim in their general direction and can still kill them, you will probably kill more than that 1 solider if you are in tight corridors.

Instead of ALL the units being shitty, maybe its the person controlling them?

[OTT]

46 minutes ago, Gliven said:

Instead of ALL the units being shitty, maybe its the person controlling them?

As bad as I'm right now cuz of lack of practice and playtime ,I'm still better than you,and I know for sure that almost all infantry have been nerfed one way or another,be it speed or damage or spread or range or whatever,you'd know what I mean if you played pre beta 4/5.

When it comes to balance approach,if one character seems OP right now,then I'd rather buff other characters to balance things out,well this is a beta,it's not so bad to experience with things for a week or at least a few days and see how it goes gameplay wise.

[Axesor]

3 hours ago, bentō said:

Marksman is hitscan tho.. 

I remember Marksman using projectiles so sry if Iam mistaken. Havent played newest patch much.

@Gliven No, and stop bringing this to the personal level, I swear... As well as others can outplay my flamer with soldier with ease, I am mostly able kill flamer/chem with a free soldier (in close combat). Chem/Flamer is using flak armor and its super easy to kill them. Chem/flamer projectile is very slow and it does 100dmg/s (flamer) 120dmg/s (chem), while soldier is able to do up to 416dmg/s if hitting head (and its kinda ez to track the head). All according to the damage tables:

• https://wiki.renegade-x.com/wiki/Automatic_Rifle 8*4*1.3*10=416
• https://wiki.renegade-x.com/wiki/Chemical_Thrower 12*10=120

 

2 hours ago, ObeliskTheTormentor said:

When it comes to balance approach,if one character seems OP right now,then I'd rather buff other characters to balance things out,well this is a beta,it's not so bad to experience with things for a week or at least a few days and see how it goes gameplay wise.

To be specific, Id love them to be buffed in certain way, so they can be good at what they were meant to be good at, while nerfing what makes them being rly OP and that is being OP in every situation as snipers and ion rifles used to be.

 

[Guest Gliven]

@Axesor Headshot multipliers for flame trooper and chems were brought back btw. Stop using an outdated wiki to support your opinions. All you have to do is actually play the game to know what you are saying is utter crap lol.
 

+ Flame Trooper: 
- Flamethrower: Headshot multiplier increased from 1.0x > 1.15x

+ Chem-Trooper: Cost Decreased from 250 > 200
- Chemical Thrower: Increased Headshot multiplier from 1.0x > 1.25x
- Tiberium Grenade: Increased Base Damage from 100 > 150; Added a slowing debuff when hit by a chem grenade

Your damage tables assume every bullet hits. It is much easier to dodge rifle fire, than it is to dodge fire. Also if you are so good at tracking head's with soldier, why don't you track heads with flame trooper and chem trooper? Sure the "projectile" is slow, but the damage radius is large. If you are in close quarters fight, the speed is negligible, you barely have to aim in order to hit someone. I kill soldiers with ease in tight quarters. Snipers and Sydneys die to flame troopers as well.... especially chems.

For the chem trooper, all you have to do is hold position near a tunnel entrance. If someone is dumb enough to rush up to you, all you have to do is, toss a grenade and spray them in the face. You will kill them almost instantly. They also cant run away from you, cause of the slowing debuff. I dont agree they are as op as everyone says they are. But they are definitely in a pretty strong position right now. Many veteran players who play this game EVERYDAY have been saying this. 

3 hours ago, ObeliskTheTormentor said:

I'm still better than you

For someone as terrible as me, i still manage to kill people with ease with characters that are apparently shit. Funny.

Also ive been here since 2014.... i played on and off in 2015 and have been playing every weekend since 2016... Ive found the game to be more balanced than it ever has been.

 

[Axesor]

@Gliven Can you stop presuming what I do with such a confidence ? U r totaly wrong and u r embarrasing urself this way. I did played newest update and I feel nothing has changed in favour of buffed units.

Anyway, thx for correcting me. I was using wiki that @DarkSn4ke has posted to me. So now with 1.25x HS multiplier, Chems do 150dmg/s instead of 120.. Not much of a change.

Ofc we are assuming thing.. you also assume that Sydney and Deadeye miss all the shots to proove that u r right. And no, they do not shoot fire, they shoot slow projectiles that looks like a fire. And its much harder to track moving target with slow moving projectiles... soldier is still able to kill these units in no time

[OTT]

9 hours ago, Gliven said:

 For someone as terrible as me, i still manage to kill people with ease with characters that are apparently shit. Funny.

 

Even more funny, that's because the characters you are killing are also "shit",thought I made that clear 

Quote

Ive found the game to be more balanced than it ever has been.

That's your opinion,just like "all inf being nerfed is my opinion"

Edited April 6, 2018 by ObeliskTheTormentor

[Calvin]

9 hours ago, Gliven said:

For the chem trooper, all you have to do is hold position near a tunnel entrance. If someone is dumb enough to rush up to you, all you have to do is, toss a grenade and spray them in the face. You will kill them almost instantly. They also cant run away from you, cause of the slowing debuff. I dont agree they are as op as everyone says they are. But they are definitely in a pretty strong position right now. Many veteran players who play this game EVERYDAY have been saying this. 

Usually when you do this people don't even have time to react.. I said this before but right now chems are broken and should probably get a nerf. 

[jpjtyld]

On 04/04/2018 at 7:47 PM, ObeliskTheTormentor said:

Non of the infantry are OP right now,not at all OP.

If you think some characters are OP,then you are wrong,they are just less shit than the rest.

... Seriously? I don't think I'm wrong in saying that chems are more than a little too strong at this moment in time. If I have a mobius and I get into a 1v1 with a chem, they don't even have to be that good for me to stand a reasonable chance of losing. I'm not saying that they can't be good, just that they are way too good at what they do right now.

Care to explain why I'm wrong?

[Sn4ke]

not all parts of the RenX wiki are out of date... but whatever...

[Guest Gliven]

40 minutes ago, DarkSn4ke said:

not all parts of the RenX wiki are out of date... but whatever...

True, but it does need a large overhaul.

[Guest Gliven]

4 hours ago, Axesor said:

shoot slow projectiles that looks like a fire

Large projectiles with a large radius....if a person is zig zagging infront of you, they will still be hit. If they run, all you have to do is track them....how is this hard? Spray and pray at its finest.

[vandal33]

Chems are fine, they would be underused if their tunnel defense is nerf. Teams without hand of nod deserve a decent character to fight mobiuses. Even that, only a few good players could put up a good fight against a mobius. Officers can easily kill them at any range, chems can only easily kill people at close range, which is their niche.