Multiplayer Open Beta Patch 5.004/Build 5F Released

[Xpert]

Can you also change back the static mine limit / vehicle limit? I don't see a reason why it was changed back to static. I liked being able to set the limit whenever.

[Bananas]

Was changed because renx's player base is too small for such customizable servers.

People should be able to hop on and play renx. Not xxx server's version of how they think renx should be. The maps have been out long enough that it's easy to figure out what a good vehicle and mine limit is. Really don't need servers running 16 vehicles and 400 mines, then being the only server with people on it. Will make it easier to get a consistent gameplay experience and make it easier for the devs to change things.

Not the most elegant solution, but better overall.

[Calvin]

GJ not even mentioning the dmg change on sniper headshots in the change log (triple nerf to a single class not touching and rebalancing anything else, seriously?). GJ not even touching hotties+sidearm-opness at all again in this patch

Rip us.

[Xpert]

Was changed because renx's player base is too small for such customizable servers.

People should be able to hop on and play renx. Not xxx server's version of how they think renx should be. The maps have been out long enough that it's easy to figure out what a good vehicle and mine limit is. Really don't need servers running 16 vehicles and 400 mines, then being the only server with people on it. Will make it easier to get a consistent gameplay experience and make it easier for the devs to change things.

Not the most elegant solution, but better overall.

This change is all because you people are butt hurt over 1 server (EKT). That's not a good reason to change something just because a server is gaining players. If people want their server configured a different way, then that's the server owner's choice. If people are playing there, then they're obviously doing something right. I'm so sick of this so called "community's" mentality where they act like they're doing it for the "good of the people" when changes are really being made based off what 1 server is doing.

If you don't like that server's minelimit, then don't play there. It's that simple. But don't go on changing things that effects everybody.

[Bananas]

The problem with your reasoning is assuming there is enough players to fill multiple servers all the time. Also you are ignoring other factors involved.

I didn't specifically point out EKT. I'm personally against the heavy customization that server owners have been allowed (that includes all of them). I really think if this game wants to go anywhere, it needs to be "RenX". Not xxx's version of how they think RenX should be. The game plays so differently with different mine limits and vehicle limits.

Customization worked well for ren because you could have different player amounts and there were more people. We have a small community with all the servers running a 40 player limit. Really don't see the need for all (what is it? 5 active servers?) the active servers to be completely different.

Anyways, just my opinion.

[Ap2000]

Having customization to some to degree is a wonderful thing.

And not letting hosters adjust some settings to their liking will probably just make them turn away from the game.

I personally don't care if a server has a mine limit of 40 or 60 as long as it's reasonable and not too high/low.

[Ryz]

I personally don't care if a server has a mine limit of 40 or 60 as long as it's reasonable and not too high/low.

Agree, I've played on servers with like 100+ mines and these are unplayable for me, especially if you consider people not working together at all. I am fine with a 'fixed' limit for now and maybe change this after the beta label has been dropped.

[Canucck]

500 sniper is pretty much the same except more annoying to play as now. The rearm/reload audio isn't synced up with the new timings, and the actual ending of each sound could be more distinctive. I don't think the animation is in sync anymore either, but it's hard to tell because it bugs a lot for me anyway and blocks the whole center of my screen.

The new changes might feel better if the sound/animations were fixed, but there were probably better changes to make. Some thoughts...

-Too much emphasis on hav/sak being the snipers. They were better off as light armor counters, because light armored vehicles were supposed to have really strong weapons.

-The scaling for light armor is opposite of Renegade. In ren 1-2 helis could scare the shit out of people but they kind of lost effectiveness if you tried to mass them most of the time. In renx 1-2 helis are pretty much a joke, while you can overwhelm anything fairly easily if you mass them.

-Get rid of all movement penalties except for a slight backpedal slow, and increase movement speed in general. This is way more of a nerf to sniping than anything in the current patch, but it makes sniping harder in the right way. The scope/strafe slow makes sniper duels a joke, they're over in a couple seconds and whoever wins has all the time in the world to control the map.

[Xpert]

-The scaling for light armor is opposite of Renegade. In ren 1-2 helis could scare the shit out of people but they kind of lost effectiveness if you tried to mass them most of the time. In renx 1-2 helis are pretty much a joke, while you can overwhelm anything fairly easily if you mass them.

I agree. If people in Ren saw 1 apache or an orca in a clanwar, they were pretty much dominant. In Ren-X, I don't fear them as much. They feel weak to begin with.

[Ap2000]

-Get rid of all movement penalties except for a slight backpedal slow, and increase movement speed in general. This is way more of a nerf to sniping than anything in the current patch, but it makes sniping harder in the right way.

Not a good idea, this also changes the balancing of other classes.

[Bananas]

Changing movement is a great idea. To me the movement feels terrible.

It relies so much on sprint that single shot (snipers) have a huge advantage of being able to shoot -> sprint -> shoot. Meanwhile automatic weapons move super slow with hardly any player acceleration for strafing.

I would love movement overhaul.

[Agent]

I like the idea of modifying the speed of individual infantry classes as a means to further balance infantry. Snipers, gunners, Raveshaws, or engineers (you know, units carrying bulky/heavy equipment) could be outmaneuvered by more maneuverable infantry such as Patch, McFarland, or Mobius. That's far more preferable compared to disabling sprint on specific classes, or continuing to modify stats on weapons when the stats themselves aren't necessarily the problem.

[RoundShades]

Snipers and Engineers. Not so keen on Gunner or Raveshaw.

[yosh56]

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=74121&p=141628&hilit=Sprint+speed#p141628

^Topic from like a year ago^

I already planned on pushing that. As it stands, the only thing that really differentiates infantry are their weapons. Health is kinda'... meh.

The only issue with most of these changes is... well.. they're going to take awhile because the purchase system isn't the easiest thing to just make changes to.

Will likely be an infantry overhaul kind of patch to change a lot about infantry. Make some fit their roles better, and overall make it feel less like you're totally gimped if you pick anything that isn't an Engineer or a Sniper (or sometimes SBH)

[Ap2000]

I think having a different amount of stamina per class is a good thing.

But don't forget that Gunner is supposed to be a really strong dude. Making him slower just because he uses a rocketlauncher doesn't see very good to me.

[XD_ERROR_XD]

-The scaling for light armor is opposite of Renegade. In ren 1-2 helis could scare the shit out of people but they kind of lost effectiveness if you tried to mass them most of the time. In renx 1-2 helis are pretty much a joke, while you can overwhelm anything fairly easily if you mass them.

I agree. If people in Ren saw 1 apache or an orca in a clanwar, they were pretty much dominant. In Ren-X, I don't fear them as much. They feel weak to begin with.

What i don't understand is that aircraft have been made slower and less agile while maps have been made larger. Sprint has been added to the game, making for the excuse to compensate for the larger maps (which imo has no grounds because small maps like Canyon still work fine with them), but aircraft have been made slower? One of their powers was being able even dodge sniper bullets with unpredictable movements, albeit this required a lot of skill and situational awareness. One thing you cannot deny however is that they absolutely destroy everything they get close to with their burst, yet continuous damage because of multiple guns, making them useful against both infantry and vehicles.

[Malak Dawnfire]

Good change on the static minelimit, when a server adds way too many mines for a certain map it changes the entire dynamic of the game and when the only active server has an 80 mine limit on Islands, I suddenly don't want to play Renegade X anymore.

[TK0104]

For next patch maybe the new map that Kenz made, CNC-BeachHead. I like that map and it is a good map (people who played this map already know what I mean).

[Ap2000]

Will you implement a client-side function that lets you mute/ignore any chat messages of a person?

[Calvin]

Snipers are shit in beta 5. Its not even a sniper anymore lol just call it a marksman. 3 hits on engis ._, Really?

In every game snipers are a bit OP never seen a game fucking up snipers this much - Really bad, i liked the game but im not so sure anymore. the game is dying and you guys make the process only faster with the shitty changes

[yosh56]

Snipers are shit in beta 5. Its not even a sniper anymore lol just call it a marksman. 3 hits on engis ._, Really?

In every game snipers are a bit OP never seen a game fucking up snipers this much - Really bad, i liked the game but im not so sure anymore. the game is dying and you guys make the process only faster with the shitty changes

lol what ? Everything tier 2 and below still dies in one shot to the face.

[Calvin]

Snipers are shit in beta 5. Its not even a sniper anymore lol just call it a marksman. 3 hits on engis ._, Really?

In every game snipers are a bit OP never seen a game fucking up snipers this much - Really bad, i liked the game but im not so sure anymore. the game is dying and you guys make the process only faster with the shitty changes

lol what ? Everything tier 2 and below still dies in one shot to the face.

I mean bodyshots, i had a 500 sniper and it took me 3 shots to kill 1 engi. how much will the sniper be nerf'd in the future?

[Molested Bunny]

I mean bodyshots, i had a 500 sniper and it took me 3 shots to kill 1 engi. how much will the sniper be nerf'd in the future?

What you want is the nubjet character for 1000. Perfect for bodyshots when you cant aim for the head. Sadly the nub compatibility costs premium.

btw Whos idea was that airdrop is limited to buggies and APCs? I just had a Field marathon match where both teams lost vehicle building early. Turns out map is even worse when GDI is not whoring NOD base entrance allowing at least some rush opportunity. Without proper vehicles both teams just camped base, camped tunnels, and some APCs waltzed on the field for no apparent reason. Total stalemate clusterfuck.

I left at the 129 minute mark, but the poor sods are still burning in purgatory playing.

176 minutes and still going strong.

207 minutes and 30 seconds. Im sure the NSA will consider using Field as a new torture device interrogational tool, not to mention ISIS to return the favor.

[Ap2000]

I mean bodyshots, i had a 500 sniper and it took me 3 shots to kill 1 engi. how much will the sniper be nerf'd in the future?

Three shots? THREE shots? How horrifying, somebody call the ambulance!

We can't have a class in Renegade that takes a whole 3 shots to kill another unit, how unheard of is that!?

[yosh56]

Never knew the body shot damage got changed on the 500. I'd honestly elect to move it back to 100. Never had a problem with it two shotting free infantry. Hell...They're free.

As for the airdrop change, it's mostly been fine, save for the vehicle limit sort of should get modified as well. Honestly using Field as a metric for anything is pretty bad. Field is just...bad honestly. It's like baby's first map, design wise.

[boxes]

For airdrops, I think APCs should be 3x the price so there's more incentive to purchase buggys/hummers.

[yosh56]

For airdrops, I think APCs should be 3x the price so there's more incentive to purchase buggys/hummers.

Will likely cut the vehicle limit as well. Don't know if increasing the cost is really a fix. Again...infantry vs infantry fights get pretty dull due to the fact that infantry require far more coordination and are also really easy to just stop. EMP nades getting fixed helped a bit there, but still your options are pretty limited.

[XD_ERROR_XD]

Why not make vehicles more expensive individually with every purchase made? Let's say someone buys his first med after WF destruction for 1200, his 2nd med purchase would be 1800, his third one 2400, then he buys a mammy for 2250? If someone keeps doing stupid stuff with his vehicles and dies, he's at least have a chance to fight back but will be punished harder with every mistake he makes.

[boxes]

Because that promotes camping. If you're going to purchase something that going to progressively get more expensive, you're not going to want to risk losing your vehicle by moving out of your base.

[XD_ERROR_XD]

Because that promotes camping. If you're going to purchase something that going to progressively get more expensive, you're not going to want to risk losing your vehicle by moving out of your base.

In which way does this promote camping more than any other method? In which situation where vehicles are really hard/impossible to obtain/keep, will there not be camped? At least this situation still allows for the opportunity to keep on fighting, but will still be properly penalized for losing your building. It's a great balance between the two.

[boxes]

The method we have right now with some adjustments to vehicle limits and price works just fine, and there's no need to further change anything else.

[yosh56]

If the price just rose with every purchase you'd still feel it was pretty pointless to kill the strip or WF. The other team can still just buy their tanks and camp it out. Killing the vehicle limit some and only having APCs\Buggies around keeps the other team with some options but the price for losing the WF\strip is still supposed to be exceptionally steep.

[RoundShades]

Other than maybe Hotwire/Tech, still feels steeper losing wf/air than bar/hon.

Every single purchaseable infantry unit still left, are the best ones to get before it died anyway. Compared to 2 vehicles, 1 you'd almost never get and 1 you'd only get if the team also didn't have tanks (because driving an APC onto a field with enemy tanks just doesn't work).

At this point, that at least justifies giving MRLS-ARTY, because APCs are heavy-armor and MRLS-ARTY stand half a chance of at least repelling assaults from the cover of their base or holding field using APC cover. The only problem, lies in some maps where nod arty is OP and is the only single vehicle you buy that map, I am looking at Complex.

I actually fear either those, probably mess with this even more than just having main battle tanks med/light and just accepting nod will be weaker in that case. Or, we can just leave it like it is because besides one team now just rolling over and dying already (we have a button for that now too, how convenient ), it is probably the best it will get.

[Calvin]

I mean bodyshots, i had a 500 sniper and it took me 3 shots to kill 1 engi. how much will the sniper be nerf'd in the future?

Three shots? THREE shots? How horrifying, somebody call the ambulance!

We can't have a class in Renegade that takes a whole 3 shots to kill another unit, how unheard of is that!?

THREE shots yes, yeah someone please!

a sniper class that cost 500 has to take 3 shots on infantry that takes 0 credits. how unfair is that?

and btw you're such a bitch

+ A sniper class that cost 1000 has to take 2 shots on infantry that takes 0 credits - how unfair is that?!.

oh oh

[Agent]

I wouldn't be surprised to see the body shot damage get reverted; I'm not sure if anyone actually noticed it prior to releasing this build. That said, I also wouldn't be surprised to see snipers nerfed in other (more appropriate) ways in the future. The ramjet's damage is fine enough where it's at atm.

Also Cinccino: be nice, please.

[XD_ERROR_XD]

If the price just rose with every purchase you'd still feel it was pretty pointless to kill the strip or WF. The other team can still just buy their tanks and camp it out. Killing the vehicle limit some and only having APCs\Buggies around keeps the other team with some options but the price for losing the WF\strip is still supposed to be exceptionally steep.

...

Killing off one's chances to attack will promote defence. There's simply no way around this. if you lose WF/airstrip, but have still that one chance to effectively assault the base before the favors shift to the other team, you'd better take it or else. This has proven itself countless times over time. If a team loses a building to a rush (not a siege), they often get triggered to counterattack as an impulse. This is simply a reflex, it's part of human nature! If you actually care about winning, you will do this! If you don't care, you'll just keep on sniping or shotgunner, whatever you feel like. If there is no more reason to not risk it all, because you're going to lose the game anyhow if you do nothing, then why not do it. Take the chance and maybe, you will be able to break the enemy team and turn the tides. If you fail, and camp, the enemy team can still rush and focus on the remaining vehicles until they become too expensive to purchase.

Yes, there are always those select people that will spam mines, camp the base with an APC for 30 minutes and fake AFK so they can attack SBHs whenever they see mines exploding. But an overwhelming majority would be willing to try at least something when they are suddendly confronted with the odds they are facing. You just need that one guy that is willing to lead the rush, and the rest will follow like a herd of sheep.

[Canucck]

It's actually kinda hard to win a 1v1 as a 500sniper against a marksman now

Also when/why was the chem trooper made a sniper?

[yosh56]

Also when/why was the chem trooper made a sniper?

Chem has been semi broken for awhile...but McFarland also OHKOs from decently far away to the head vs free infantry. Chem range might need a bit of a nerf though...I've been roflstomped by them from some pretty ridiculous ranges several times.

EDIT: I love how people were only able to notice how broken other infantry were after the tunnels weren't 90% sniper. Chem hasn't changed since beta 5 came out... hell, think beta 4 is the last time it was changed.

Waiting for someone to complain that McFarland one hit kills free infantry from 15-20 ft away.

[Ap2000]

Yeah, the Chem trooper rush in the beginning to destroy a Nod building always worked quite well, especially on the smaller maps with hidden pathways. I always considered him to be the best <200 credits unit, especially after the (needed) Officer nerf.

I guess the question is if you want Chems to be good against infantry or good against buildings. Having both for 150 is kinda strong.

Eventhough I'm not a fan of copying units and just adjusting values, maybe make a specialized Chemdude that costs 400~500 and does more damage against buildings.

Though I don't use McFarland very often, he doesn't seem too strong to me.

[RoundShades]

Chem Suggestion: Reduce ballistic velocity? That would make him acceptable at stationary targets at longrange and most targets at closer range, but the currently acceptable target leading that even I can do would be a lot harsher to try and hit a target farther than half the maximum range.

It also makes sense that fumes would be less hitscan. Although it also makes sense that this, along with some other weapons, would have damage falloff too. This, flamer, and shotgun anyway...