[Dev] CNC-Valley | Official Feedback

[HappyConscript]

Hey everyone,

It would be very helpful to me if everyone could post their feedback for Valley here. This includes bugs, as well as balance suggestions.

An important suggestion I have already received is to increase the credit tick of the silos. While I cannot directly adjust this, I have brought the issue up with the team and hopefully we can incorporate a solution.

Finally, regarding a different suggestion, the map is meant to be played with a full game of 32-40 players; it is supposed to be large.

Thank-you everyone

[Ryz]

So far I like it, but the money indeed takes a while for you have it, even with more silos.

It's quite different and have to see how it turns out with players who dont play together. Today Nod was just camping the PP for half the game but a teameffort managed to kill it.

[HappyConscript]

I am glad you like it!

I am certain the map is not for everyone, and it is definitely team-work oriented. Furthermore, I have brought up the money issue with the team and am awaiting a response.

Thanks

[Truxa]

I played 2 rounds on valley today and both rounds people were complaining a lot ... it's slow paced (because of the 90% rambo/commando players) and Nod favoured (because of the SBH)

Lets face it, we cant make the community unanimously happy on all the maps. Some prefer A, others prefer B.

I prefer Renegade X, that includes all maps I find it extreme fun to have gameplay variety and when certain tactics do not apply on maps where it does on other maps.

[HappyConscript]

I definitely believe more people will like the map if I can get more money flowing in it; that will definitely increase the pace. Secondly, I think people still need some time to learn how to play it; team work is a must!

Definitely agree with you though; as I mentioned, this style of map is not for everyone.

[salarite]

First of all thank you for this map, it is good to be experimenting with ideas. I think the reason why some people complain is because this map (as it is infantry only) is dominated by having a good aim. In vanilla maps, when you have a bad aim, you hop in a tank or go repair something and still help the team.

I can see this map become sort of what sniper only maps are: a battle of a fewer number of people with good aim. So it might not appeal to the wide public, but can be fun for say a 10v10 battle.

[Inilitus]

So far I've enjoyed this map. Normally I suck at sniping but somehow I've done really well on this map and managed to go 26-0 at one time. I like how it's unique with only 2 buildings, only infantry, no refinery, etc.

[yosh56]

Man, that's iffy for me with the idea of raising the eco on the map. As far as I can tell, the strained economy is what keeps the map sane, so not everybody is a sniper, and Nod can't just spam SBHs, and GDI can't just spam Gunner rushes. I think it nailed the idea of map control very well already, and hopefully you won't go overboard with increasing the economy.

I adore this map by the way... if you couldn't tell through Skype alone .

[[TmX]Super-Kh]

so here are some glitch spots I found :

1- a way to get up the mountain and snipe nod :

http://i.imgur.com/9ZlsBJv.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/DRX83Pf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ztFbY9P.jpg

after the third Image you go a bit further and jump on the rocks,and be able to snipe nod in their base

second one being :

http://i.imgur.com/yfuC7LW.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/6jG2SEV.jpg

[HappyConscript]

Thanks for the feedback everyone, I am glad people are enjoying the map

I am taking all of the feedback into consideration, and I will look into the bugs as well.

Thanks all!

[Henk]

I also think we could use some more income on this map. I wish it was possible with kismet, or in a map's settings to change the amount of cash a silo gives per second. I really need that for C&C-Snow as well.. (especially since that one has only 1 silo per team and vehicles.

And more toilets please.

[[TmX]Super-Kh]

can't you make it like : if you capture this 1 silo you capture also 1 more silo hidden somewhere or merged with the silo you capped ? that way if you cap 1 silo,you will cap two and you get 0.5 x 2 to get 1 credit per tick

or do the same principle for 4 silos so we get 2 credit per tick

[Henk]

Super-Kh":1kz9ozzl]can't you make it like : if you capture this 1 silo you capture also 1 more silo hidden somewhere or merged with the silo you capped ? that way if you cap 1 silo,you will cap two and you get 0.5 x 2 to get 1 credit per tick

or do the same principle for 4 silos so we get 2 credit per tick

So far I haven't been able to make this in Kismet (tried it a couple of weeks ago, with a hidden silo way out of the playing area), can't seem to set a silo to a specific team via Kismet.

[RoundShades]

I played 2 rounds on valley today and both rounds people were complaining a lot ... it's slow paced (because of the 90% rambo/commando players) and Nod favoured (because of the SBH)

Lets face it, we cant make the community unanimously happy on all the maps. Some prefer A, others prefer B.

I prefer Renegade X, that includes all maps I find it extreme fun to have gameplay variety and when certain tactics do not apply on maps where it does on other maps.

Weren't you playing in the TMX game the night of release, when everyone was saying it was GDI favored and pissing and moaning it like it was a sign of the death of world order across the globe?

Now all of a sudden it's Nod based. Sigh.

Super-Kh":1rev0p3n]can't you make it like : if you capture this 1 silo you capture also 1 more silo hidden somewhere or merged with the silo you capped ? that way if you cap 1 silo,you will cap two and you get 0.5 x 2 to get 1 credit per tick

or do the same principle for 4 silos so we get 2 credit per tick

So far I haven't been able to make this in Kismet (tried it a couple of weeks ago, with a hidden silo way out of the playing area), can't seem to set a silo to a specific team via Kismet.

You also couldn't link the MCT healths? Perhaps that wouldn't solve the problem, but perhaps.

This may also seem like a crazy suggestion, but it sounds good to me so... Have you ever considered, 3 more silos? That would add a bit more cash, and give a little more fighting over silos. Could put 1 more per team in-base as a near-guarantee, and one in the center-path in middle of map.

[Truxa]

I played 2 rounds on valley today and both rounds people were complaining a lot ... it's slow paced (because of the 90% rambo/commando players) and Nod favoured (because of the SBH)

Lets face it, we cant make the community unanimously happy on all the maps. Some prefer A, others prefer B.

I prefer Renegade X, that includes all maps I find it extreme fun to have gameplay variety and when certain tactics do not apply on maps where it does on other maps.

Weren't you playing in the TMX game the night of release, when everyone was saying it was GDI favored and pissing and moaning it like it was a sign of the death of world order across the globe?

Now all of a sudden it's Nod based. Sigh.

I'm not complaining or anything, I simply like the idea. I merely pointed out what others were complaining about yesterday (when I played the 2 matches), I didnt say I agreed or not.

And probably you are right, I did play the night of release. I didnt pay attention to the complaints though, but I had the impression GDI could get into Hon quite easily with a hotty-rush. I remember Nod being 1 building behind (Hon was dead) so naturally a comeback is hard. People hanging out in the pp with C4's.

That day I was on Nod and went full-out retard marksman killing off any deadeyes I could lay my eyes on. I loved it!

On Topic:

I do not think we need added credit ticks, like Yosh said. This map requires better teamplay and therefore people complain. It needs a different gameplay mentality to succeed, so the better coordinated team wins. (Like on any other map if you think about it)

[Goku]

I like the map myself. For EKT I will be reducing the mines to 10 so teams will need to decide if they want to mine the bar/hon or pp.

Otherwise Teamwork level: Call Of Duty does suck i agree, i almost rage quit on this map cause only 2 people out of 20 wanted to work as a team.

Apart from the above the map is really good looking and if we can some how fix the whole lone wolf problem would be an epic map!

[Guest]

Suggestions

. Make it a CTF map.

. Add weapon pickups.

. Add 1 turret and 1 guard tower.

. Have a big building/bunker in the middle of the map to keep it interesting.

[Ryz]

Suggestions

. Add 1 turret and 1 guard tower.

Sorry, but if there's no teamwork how can you even get past the turret? I mean you need 5 people at least to take it down while one can repair. I like the fact that the map is very open, I don't like it's unplayable with 'solo 4 life' gamers. Yesterday 3 out of 10 people did something that benefit the team. I don't have to mention we lost the PP easily. What if BOTH teams have only 3 players trying AND there are base defences? Stalemate from beginning...

Weapons pickup should be on any map if you ask me

[HappyConscript]

The two biggest changes I am currently thinking about are:

--Additional credit tick rate per silo

--Additional silo on the upper lake path; splitting it between two silos

Regarding team-work on map pacing: the map is designed to have a heavy emphasis on teamwork as well as a slower pace with a more intensive resource management element. I would agree it might be a bit to slow paced at the moment, but I am concerned of increasing the pace so much so that the map becomes a disorientating brawl of high cost characters.

I would also like to mention that I explicitly left automated base defenses out of the map for good reason. They would indeed perpetuate stalemates, especially considering the longer lines of sight in Valley. By comparison, my upcoming Infantry-Only map: Dawn

(see here: http://renegade-x.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=135&p=153259#p153259)

utilizes two automated base defenses for each base. This setup works better on this map due to much more varied, and smaller lines of sight as well as a greater number of base entrances.

Finally, the notion of adding weapon pickups to the map is interesting to me and I may consider that.

Once again, thank-you for the feedback everyone. Much appreciated!

[RoundShades]

I don't know why I didn't mention, but crates would be nice too. Right now economy is extremely scarce not just from lack of ref and lower from silos, but also simply because 100 credit crates are entirely absent.

Someone should have mentioned this by now, I don't know why I didn't but everyone else who let this go is just as bad.

[XD_ERROR_XD]

I haven't been able to play the map yet, but i can tell by experience that adding too many silo's spreads out the players too much, making it even harder to find each other. Lowering the amount of silo's creates more action at the remaining key location, but penalizes the other team too much if they lose control of it. Once the enemy team takes control of only 2/3 silo's, they would have double the income of the other team which they can use to strengthen their positions a bit too quickly.

My suggestions therefore are:

- give silo's a higher cred tick, as already suggested, but only the silo's inside the bases. This way both teams have a more stable but still not too high credit count. Use this to leave not too many silo's in the field, and both issues mentiomed above will be resolved.

- reposition the remaining silo's/make them a bit more exposed, so both teams can see a bit more easily where the enemy is, creating more action.

I hope to have helped you with these suggestions, and I can't wait until i can get my hands on this map! ^^

[Radeon3]

I don't know why I didn't mention, but crates would be nice too. Right now economy is extremely scarce not just from lack of ref and lower from silos, but also simply because 100 credit crates are entirely absent.

Someone should have mentioned this by now, I don't know why I didn't but everyone else who let this go is just as bad.

I awaited for you to mention it Definitely miss the crates. And weapon pickups.

Maybe consider removing the barbed wire from the right silo (from GDI's side) or make it apparent that it can't be crossed. Many player tries to jump over it.

Also consider shrinking the lake as the water physics can be explotied badly to defend the nearby silo. Get the machine gun, dip into the lake, spray 'n pray, reload underwater, spray n' pray... you got the idea.

The map seriously needs wolf howling

[OTT]

I like how the map is right now in terms of credits,players will have to think well before they buy any character or what few credits they have will go to waste,but a slight increase in income wouldn't be a problem imo.

Another thing that nobody mentioned and probably nobody will,is the light/time of the day in this map,I prefer it to be in the middle of the day,where the source of light is in the middle of the sky,and shadows are minimal,the visibility is probably the best,since this is an infantry only map,the more visibility the better,maybe that's only me that prefers that,just like Islands for example,or like CNC-Sniper-ShootingRange

Other than that,thanks for this great map,I like it.

[Ryz]

You know what might be cool?

A map gives an x- amount of credits every second per silo. So let's say 0.5 credits per second per player now. What if the map just gives 20 credits per silo per second divided over the team.

This way:

- You can get heavier units quicker when this map is played 5 vs 5 cause if every team has one silo it will gain 20 credits per sec = 4 credits per person per second (aka 240 in a minute). This will make it that someone can get a fairly strong minute in 2 till 4 minutes.

- When you play 20 vs 20 you have the 'team element and the benefit of playing with large numbers.' Every person would gain 1 credit per second if you follow the above formula.

This would make the map more suitable for small teams (more money per player) and larger groups. Right now it's cool with 15 vs 15, but really boring with 5 vs 5. Not to mention if one team has a sniper making spawnkills...

[epicelite]

Add a couple of those player controlled defenses from Whiteout?

[boxes]

Add a couple of those player controlled defenses from Whiteout?

That's just going to make games last a couple more hours long.

[Goku]

i think there should be a few more paths to choose from, maybe two that end up behind the base or something.

Problem seems to be for GDI getting close is a shit tone of work compared to sbh that just go lalalalaa and in.

Granted i have managed to get rushes organised and we have killed the hon before but then Nod just switched to super camping mode and we got bored after 30mins.

I like the map but as it is atm but it just needs some work.

[Ryz]

Problem seems to be for GDI getting close is a shit tone of work compared to sbh that just go lalalalaa and in.

Quote of the week

[Goku]

Problem seems to be for GDI getting close is a shit tone of work compared to sbh that just go lalalalaa and in.

Quote of the week

ty ty im here all week.

[Handepsilon]

A kismet-driven cannon that can be used to damage a whole base if controlled within a given amount of time?

Dunno about team balance issue, but technically speaking, it can be done

[yosh56]

Shot in the dark... but I was thinking that we only do spawn points in buildings because they've always been in buildings. What if, for infantry only maps, spawn points weren't actually in the buildings themselves? Say like... there was just a dormant APC or Landed transport prop at the back of the base with PTs, and (maybe( still PTs in buildings.

If people didn't spawn right back in buildings, I don't think it would feel so helpless rushing with other infantry, as you wouldn't just be putting your enemy RIGHT BACK IN YOUR FACE. It's already hard enough to not get wtf pwned by people with remote C4 (and a decent ping).

[Kibax]

Shot in the dark... but I was thinking that we only do spawn points in buildings because they've always been in buildings. What if, for infantry only maps, spawn points weren't actually in the buildings themselves? Say like... there was just a dormant APC or Landed transport prop at the back of the base with PTs, and (maybe( still PTs in buildings.

If people didn't spawn right back in buildings, I don't think it would feel so helpless rushing with other infantry, as you wouldn't just be putting your enemy RIGHT BACK IN YOUR FACE. It's already hard enough to not get wtf pwned by people with remote C4 (and a decent ping).

This actually sounds pretty good.

I approve this message.

[Handepsilon]

I dunno if this is known or not

But bots are OP in this map. They can buy high tier characters early game without money, and can still do so without Barracks or Hand of Nod

[Bananas]

Yah. I was thinking about the spawn points like that too. Either some apc or fancy parachute in.

Or give the map some type of objective in the middle that helps end the game or wins the game.

[Idiotas]

Or give the map some type of objective in the middle that helps end the game or wins the game.

Capture the flag! and hold it for some time

[Detritus]

Or give the map some type of objective in the middle that helps end the game or wins the game.

Capture the flag! and hold it for some time

That would ruin the whole map for me. I would prefer just having automated defenses at the bases to deter SBH's. And a quicker way to get credits...

[Xpert]

I dunno if this is known or not

But bots are OP in this map. They can buy high tier characters early game without money, and can still do so without Barracks or Hand of Nod

The bots don't access PTs to begin with on Valley that's why. They spawn as a random character like on CnC-Deck.

[yosh56]

I would prefer just having automated defenses at the bases to deter SBH's. And a quicker way to get credits...

You're aware both of these lead to Valley becoming the greatest stalemate of all time, right? Defenses are an exceptional no. More money just means the thing everyone complains about but never happens because they're too broke: sniper/LCG and SBH spam.

Am for crates though.

[Goku]

Few more ways into the base would be cool.

Is there a way we could make intermittent fog? So people cant see you coming. Could make for some interesting rushes.

[MattHunX]

Unlike most of the people, who regularly down-vote the map, because of the lack of vehicles and whatnot, I actually like it, precisely because there are no vehicles and it's just a good infantry map.

Silos do need to bring in credits faster as it quickly becomes restricting when people are being killed fast and they cannot effectively rejoin the fight with only free infantry. Or they don't even have enough creds, after purchasing a higher tier character, to buy a secondary weapon.

I like the atmosphere of the map and infantry is hard to spot. The night-vision, which I usually only use in caves, doesn't actually help. For some reason everything is too bright, even though the time of day should be dusk, or something.

If people do want vehicles, perhaps you could alter the landscape and get rid of the lake, even though I like swimming in it, and put a capturable Mobile WF, Fist of NOD, or something similar there, that could take more time to capture than silos. Say, 3-4x times more, even with hotwires. As long as it would belong to a side, it could produce a very limited number of vehicles, say, 3-4. But, for this to work for there to be enough room to maneuver, the map needs to be stretched as it is very small, at the moment. Or at least the area where the Factory would be, should be expanded a little.

Maybe add a third guard tower on top of the waterfall, in each base. OR one repairable base defense turret. The one with the missile barrage and single mortar that's on WhiteOut. Not the one with the cannon an machine gun. And you can disable the missile barrage and let only the mortar be operational, so it wouldn't have too much fire-power all at once. From that spot, it would have a good range and could cover the entire base. But, unlike the turrets on WhiteOut, it should either have a much longer respawn/reconstruction time, or its destruction should be permanent, so it would need to be protected, from SBH especially. A slightly higher mine limit, perhaps. Or the landscape on GDI's side should be altered, so SBH and any infantry would have a more difficult time reaching it. Have a ladder lead to it, maybe. That could be more easily guarded, or it wouldn't require additional mines. For balance. This turret should also have higher hitpoints, maybe. So a retarded rush of gunners, sydnes, raveshaws or any other long range infantry wouldn't be viable. It would need a more concerted effort to bring down. Its range should extend to the guard towers AND it should be accessible by all units, meaning, the opposite team, as well. For the surprise factor. Eh? EH?

[Handepsilon]

Just to note, Ruud discovered a way to increase the silo cred gain. Check the patch prompt, Conscript

[Ruincarved]

Forgive me if there's another reason, but what would be so bad about having refineries on this map?

I think having only infantry to attack/defend the harvesters would make for interesting gameplay, where you work together to keep the harvesters alive and ensure income, as opposed to the easy harvester destruction that happens on vehicle maps.

[DoctorB0NG]

If the pp were replaced with a ref I think it would be interesting. There would only be one harvester and when it dies, it wouldn't respawn. That would add an interesting mechanic

[Handepsilon]

Forgive me if there's another reason, but what would be so bad about having refineries on this map?

I think having only infantry to attack/defend the harvesters would make for interesting gameplay, where you work together to keep the harvesters alive and ensure income, as opposed to the easy harvester destruction that happens on vehicle maps.

There's a script complication I believe. The harvy spawns on strip/WF. Afaik if there's none, it will spawn on the center of the map

[HappyConscript]

Hey everyone,

My apologies for not being more responsive, as I have a limited amount of free time.

Regardless, a variety of updates have been made to Valley for the next release.

The more noticeable updates would be:

-Increased credit tick (5 for base silos; 2 for inner map silos)

-Crate pickups throughout map (6)

-Automated defenses (1 for each team)

-Additional flares (to light up a few darker spots)

-Adjustment to character silhouettes to make them easier to see

-Adjustment to a few paths for easier transition

-Adjustment to mini-map for improved visibility

Hopefully these all work out pretty well; keep the feedback coming when the update hits

[DoctorB0NG]

-Increased credit tick (5 for base silos; 2 for inner map silos)

-Automated defenses (1 for each team)

5 credits per tick is a 400% increase. That's probably going to end up being too much. The inner silos lose some of their value now with the base one being so high.

This level is already kind of stalematey, why did you opt to add automated defenses?

[HappyConscript]

5 credits per tick is a 400% increase. That's probably going to end up being too much. The inner silos lose some of their value now with the base one being so high.

This level is already kind of stalematey, why did you opt to add automated defenses?

@Credit Tick: I figured I might as well aim a little bit higher than just double and see how people respond. I will balance from there.

@Automatic Defenses: One of the larger problems which became evident was the inherent advantage NoD had on the map due to SBH. Additionally, the Power Plants were easily dispatched which rendered teams severely handicapped with the already low income.

The automatic defenses are placed in front of the power plants, respectively, in an attempt to knock out two birds with one stone. Assuming it works out, all is well; if not, than it shall be balanced some more