Mining tutorial

[Truxa]

Hi guys,

I've taken it upon myself to start and try making a tutorial about the whole mining issue. It's uploading right now onto youtube. When it's finished, it will be here:

The video is unlisted, so it's not public, only people having this link will be able to see it. If you guys approve, I can turn it into public for everyone to find doing youtube searches.

NOTE:

Length: 13 minutes.

Target: Countering 3x SBH infiltrations tagteams.

Map: Walls Flying.

Skirmish mode.

Minelimit: 45 (as on TmX server).

Bots disabled.

Extra info: difference between stacking 5 mines and spreading 5 mines.

This shows that with an experienced team, the 45 minelimit is not enough to stop infiltrations. This will also indicate the fact that 1 lousy miner will screw up the whole team.

Suggestions for improving mines through gamedesign are not appreciated.

Suggestions for improving the tutorial however is.

[Ryz]

I like your attempt and it's good that you stood up to do something, but...

In my opinion you should make it quicker / shorters. So:

- Videoshot someone placing mines in front of the base

- Second shot with entrance mined with 20 mines

- Third shot: 4 SBH get in Chinook

- Shot: SBH dropped over wall

- Shot infiltrating

- Shot C4 MCT

- Timer (speed up so it's only few secs, building down

Same for:

Mines in the front of BAR

Mines in the front of Airstrip Tower

And HON

Just show someone hopping the sandbags or jumping the window.

Than furthermore show a base (snapshots of each door) completely mined. Now show someone placing mines in tunnel and with splitscreen the mines disappearing at same door. Let the same SBH guys walk in and building down.

It should also contain a minimal voiceover explaining the thing. No long stories or mentioning that also 10 remotes can kill the building, or one c4 and a chemsprayer. Just quick (and not dirty) with a few SBH or ONE Hotwire for lets say the strip!

This can be made in a few hours, should take max 45 secs and should explain the very basics. Nobody and especially the players who do not care will watch 12 minutes. I am sorry!

[yosh56]

It's good that somebody didn't just talk about it, and instead made something, however we've got issues.

If we want people to watch the tutorial, we're better off making it short, sweet and to the point. It's about mining, so the information about how much damage SBHs do to buildings is kind of superfluous. Having the video be strictly about mining techniques and WHY it's important will suffice.

Also, you fail to take into account that you set off that 5-mine-stack through the wall and then simply crouched and walked into the actual spread field. Yes stacked mines do less damage, but a single SBH can also set off all 5 mines in a doorway by themselves and come out with -100+. So in essence, one of the major topics that should be covered is mining far enough away from the door that the mines can't be set off through the wall, but close enough that a Technician can't stand inside of the doorway and disarm them.

[Ryz]

So Yosh, we should make a small team and make this video. Let me know when and how and add some TmX people and Truxa and we will have a fine result!

[yosh56]

So Yosh, we should make a small team and make this video. Let me know when and how and add some TmX people and Truxa and we will have a fine result!

Was thinking the same. This would probably be best done with a small group of people. I need to think of who's got a good tutorial voice though.

[Ryz]

We can do a vocal test. I would prefer a native English person. I got quite some voice over and radio experience and professional equipment, but I am Dutch so that rules me out.

[Truxa]

I was expecting heavy critique so no hard feelings. I just had 1 of those episodes when being fed up by noobish behaviour.

I also read the other post where Cudaker sais he's kicked n stuff? Devs reply there saying no one takes initiative to actually make a tutorial, only discussions are taking place.

Yosh's written tutorials are too long, 45 seconds is imo too short.

I agree, mine is a bit long too, but thats my nature, explaining why this n why that. Its like the following story:

5 monkeys in a cage, a ladder and on top of the ladder bananas.

If 1 monkey goes up and tries to take a banana, the other 4 are spayed heavily with aa water hose.

This instance occurs often enough for the monkeys to realize, walking up the ladder to take bananas will screw the rest, so, whenever a monkey tries to do that they beat the 1 going up the ladder.

When this happens, every week, they switch a monkey with a new one. After 5 weeks every monkey is replaced, but they still beat the monkey walking up the ladder.

If you ask the question why they are doing that, they reply: it was always like this.

Reason for me saying is: people need context or they dont know or realize why something must be done in a specific way.

[HaTe]

HOW IS THE MONKEY TALKING!?

Oh, and mining is so much more simple than people realize. Perhaps I'll just write a paragraph and then take some screen shots, and overlay an automated voice on top of it.

[DoctorB0NG]

So Yosh, we should make a small team and make this video. Let me know when and how and add some TmX people and Truxa and we will have a fine result!

Was thinking the same. This would probably be best done with a small group of people. I need to think of who's got a good tutorial voice though.

Yo

[HaTe]

Alright, so I'll let you guys handle the basics and explain "Why mining is needed" and all that fun stuff for newcomers.

Since you guys are going to do that, I went ahead and made some screen shots for "pro" mining on Walls in Renegade X as GDI. Really, the mining works on every map, but this is specifically for Walls.

Bar:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =425176690

5 mines each door assuming 45 mine limit. Mine from outside, so that they stick out beyond the door ledges Mine the outside of the doors because the middle has spots where the mines fall through a bit.

WF front:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =425176720

Same as Barracks. 5 assuming 45 mine limit.

Wf side door:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =425176746

6 assuming 45 mine limit. Yes, this will kill a tech or SBH, even when crouching. Put them far enough in where they cannot be triggered from the outside, like the screenshot suggests.

Ref front door:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =425176763

6 assuming 45 mine limit. Mine far enough in where they cannot be triggered from outside the door, but far enough down the slope where they will be triggered even if the enemy is crouching, like so.

Ref Back door:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =425176797

6 assuming 45 mine limit. Just mine this specific spot.

PP door 1:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =425176831

6 assuming 45 mine limit. Don't miss and hit the wall, as it will be exploded before the enemy enters and will lose damage.

PP door 2:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =425176851

6 assuming 45 mine limit.

Pro tip: Try to avoid having the mines touching if possible, as they currently check collisions with each other and will lose slight damage when this happens.

[DoctorB0NG]

Floating mines are technically an exploit and as such are forbidden on our server.

[HaTe]

You mean placing them on the door? What exploit is that abusing, and you should know that it's the only effective way with how the mines currently work.

[DoctorB0NG]

At times they are undisarmable which is pretty crappy if you're a lone hotty trying to sneak in.

[Lt.Hargrove]

Mining the ceilings is so fair, as it completely allows for disarming said mines from the outside. Totally.

[HaTe]

Yes I've seen that with proxies and timeds. Never figured out for myself how to glitch them like that though. All of the ones I placed are disarmable, at least by myself. I see them all the time in tmx...I will start reporting now.

Mining the ceilings is so fair, as it completely allows for disarming said mines from the outside. Totally.

It was in Renegade too. Just a strategy. EMP's still work to disarm them just fine afaik

[DoctorB0NG]

Just because it was in old Renegade doesn't mean it should be in Ren X.

[HaTe]

Agreed. Yet it is. Don't blame me for utilizing it when it was intentionally put into the game.

As is, it's the only effective way to mine, since the proxy mines are still pretty glitchy.

[Xtractor]

mines tuto stuff.

Interesting ! Oo

[RoundShades]

Ok I guess I will have this debate again. Why mine the bar front doors, taking twice the mines, when you can mine the bar sandbag doors, on a nonflying map?

The reason on xmountain is for some godforsaken reason they thought it was good map design to place a rock just close enough to jump the sandbags.

But why, lets say, on Complex?

[HaTe]

Walls is a flying map if you're addressing that towards me.

Canyon you can jump onto the sandbag as well. Haven't tested each map, but you can do this in X as well as the original on canyon.

On Complex you don't have to mine the individual doors. I don't believe there's any way to jump the sandbags there (besides vehicle hopping). So on complex, mining the sandbag entrance would be fine afaik. My example was strictly for for Walls with a 45 mine limit.

[Ryz]

On canyon you can jump from the bridge in on the bar wall, so that's confirmed...

[Handepsilon]

Since I already have the SDK, I will look on trying to create some sort of tutorial map, or at least a template of it. Seeing that I'm no expert in Renegading, the only thing I can do is making kismet nodes that :

a) Change class of a player

b) Resurrects building

c) Detects classes

[RoundShades]

On canyon you can jump from the bridge in on the bar wall, so that's confirmed...

That one is obvious.

But XMountain, that rock is part of the "edge of the map" and isn't entirely obvious.

[Ryz]

You used to be able to do the same in Islands.

[Henk]

I loved how it was possible on Islands and Goldrush (the treestump, now blocked). It required some jumping skill (especially on Islands), and in the occasion they mined at the sandbags instead of doors it gave an opportunity to infiltrate, if you had the knowledge of how to do it, I really liked that. Would be happy if they brought that back, and maybe make the one on Islands a bit more obvious.