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Improved Communications Menu (?)


Nielsen
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Ripped straight out of Warthunder but they themselves took a mechanic from Battlefield and improved upon it as far as I'm concerned.

Playing some Warthunder recently and I like how efficient this system is. I think it would be a good idea to replace the awkward ctrl / alt scheme with the yellow text on screen to your left etc. -all bad UI stuff in it's own right- with this.

(This would work in tandem with the current Q-spotting system, so Q on something would yield the same messages it does now since that's pretty efficient already.)

Essentially it's a quick 2 step menu, you first choose the general section you want to be in:

Attack, Defend, Answer, Report, Rush

Attack you can find in the pictures below

Defend would be roughly the same options.

Answer would be stuff like "Affirmative" "Negative" and possible other responses.

Report would house "Follow me, cover me, hold position etc."

Rush would house "Rush Flame, Stealth, SBH, Character"

Which means it's easier to organise your team and respond properly.

Key combination: T (activate menu) 1, Attack, 1 = "Attack the harvester!" and so forth.

T, 1, 5 (Attack the refinery!)

The quick Photoshop hackjob:

GLuNeqg.jpg

PKIz1Lm.jpg

Your thoughts?

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Looks like a great idea. I know this has something that's been bouncing around since the ut3 days, but we've never done. What if instead of T, we used the alt and/or control keys? If we keep the numbers too, then it would be a seamless addition to the current system.

Also, I am disappointed, but a small bit honored to learn that Hassan has killed me.

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Looks like a great idea. What if instead of T, we used the alt and/or control keys? If we keep the numbers too, then it would be a seamless addition to the current system.

No this is exactly why I suggested it as such and not integrating it into alt / control, because that already exists and is unwieldy. You cannot use Alt / control for this new system, only 1 key because everything would be divided by the numbers 1/5 and then a submenu.

Right now you cannot rebind the ctrl key for the radio commands properly; I have it set to "duck" but it also brings up radio commands.

Besides people are already coming in saying they want to keep the old system as well, it's there so we can leave that as is.

So my suggestion is to implement the "T" system and have T be rebindable. Also keep that Ctrl / Alt system but also have that rebindable.

It's a good step forward, I'm down for this change.

In-game voice chat (when/if Renegade is on steam) would still be the greatest solution to communication issues.

Yeah I'm pleading for a big usability improvement before final release but Steam is still nowhere in sight unfortunately. There are other things we can improve in the meantime however such as this.

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Nice system. You can also try setting it to Q by default (like battlefield)

Have a new spot 'button' in the middle that says 'spotted' just like battlefield.. this way, when you quickly press Q, you automagicly spot because you didnt select anything else. If you wanna do/say something else, attack ref or whatever you can navigate to it.

At the moment the center of your spotting UI is blanc.

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To clarify this isn't a mouse based UI like Battlefield, so Q spot would be it's own thing. This isn't meant for spotting either, it's team communication.

Q would remain all the spotting / attack context sensitive stuff.

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I used to "talk" a lot in Old Renegade, Now i'm more silent until I decided to Bind some 'statement/orders'

I like the Q function that Im considering to add to my mouse button.

What I did today (but idk if it did something at all ) when I spoted a nuke I Q 'it ,After that I though That would be great if that simple action show my position (via the Big green arrows over my head) and the Nuke position to my Teamates

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Key combination: T (activate menu) 1, Attack, 1 = "Attack the harvester!" and so forth.

T, 1, 5 (Attack the refinery!)

This most originally from all of my experiences, most indefinitely originates from Call of Duty 1 in 2003, which uses the identical system. You would press v-1-1 or v-5-4 or whatnot.

And yes, I do like the idea, although leaving legacy for the sake of leaving legacy is good, unless you intend to use those buttons for something later in this development. Could you do both?

As in, leave the old chat options, as well as basically implement a second route to get to the options from the new chat menu you purpose?

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It's pretty much the same thing except instead of a huge overlay it's just a menu that appear off to the side.

'V' opened the menu

another key opened a submenu... A for attack, D for defense, G for general, etc, numbers work all the same

another key to play a voice command/taunt or open another submenu.

ie "VGS" would be voicemenu -> general -> S to yell "Shazbot!" in all chat (tribes version of Fuck!)

All of the tribes games are free, should just download one and play around with it for a minute.

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using A & D in a submenu sounds pretty bad because you can't walk or do anything. Off to the side is also something I'd like to avoid, since you want it to be very clear at a glance and when you know the combo it's hardly even there at all. (it's off to the side right now + really small, takes too long to look at it relatively speaking)

As for "clutters the screen" eh that much but ok. I just used WT exact menu, we could well do with something smaller, but it's not in the way of the crosshair because it's below that and it doesn't interfere with any useful keybinds while in the process of using it.

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movement was 8000x times more important in tribes than in renegade and it still wasn't an issue there. The point is you should be typing out the voice combos in a split second. It doesn't take long to spam 2-4 keys, and even if they're normally a movement key it's still way more convenient than reaching across your keyboard to hit the 6-0 keys. All of the tribes keys were directly around wasd

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In tribes we would be flying around at 120mph strafing left and right dodging auto rifles and spinfusers while being able to spam out 4 commands in less than a second (all unique commands). The voice commands were so efficient (both from the way they were set up to the amount there were) that voice chat was not even needed for high level play.

How it worked: pressing V would open up a large menu. This menu would quickly branch out depend on what you pushed next: A -attack submenu, D- defend submenu, G- Global menu, S- Self menu etc. then those sub branches would have their own full commands OR sub branches (never went past 4 total keypresses).

Pressing VDF = defend our flag

pressing VGTA = voice - global - taunt - "aww that's too bad"

Generally it was Vxx or Vxxx to use a command. In renegade I highly doubt you would need more than 3 keypresses for all the voice commands to work. It is extremely fast and efficient. Just download Tribes: Ascend and see it for your self.

People got so good at the commands that they could string multiple commands fast enough so that the voices would say different strings.

When you get used to the commands (almost everyone got used to the voice commands in Tribes faster than the actual gameplay of the game) it takes 0.1 seconds at the MOST to choose the desired command. The menu system was instant, made no noise when you selected an option, no transition screens, it just did it and it's by far the best system for in game voice ever made. It's been there since Starseige: Tribes (and that one had even MORE in it) back in 1998.

Also I'm a fucking BLAST at parties, but that's usually because the people at parties are what I expect. I don't expect a developer for an arcade shooter to have never even PLAYED another arcade shooter, especially one of the few games that is SIMILAR to Renegade. Loosely similar.

EDIT: Also the keys were around home row left keys. Most FPS players use WASD but I use ESDF and it still worked extremely well. All keys within the shape of QYBZ were used (in that quadrilateral). I think only ONE command had "O" in it and nobody used it because of that.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Just to note, I don't exactly support a direct port of Tribes quickchat. the V combo system itself is superior of course. I just never liked my chat buttons being around wasd. I mean, he says he will make them mappable, and I NEVER use numbers for weapon switch, id prefer 1-5 being chat, and it being combos of 1-5. Still good if mappable though.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Too hard. Definatly dont see this as a feature that could be in the next patch. Only our UI programmer roxez could awnser this properly though. Though he is busy on getting ingame lists for community maps etc up.

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It's pretty much the same thing except instead of a huge overlay it's just a menu that appear off to the side.

'V' opened the menu

another key opened a submenu... A for attack, D for defense, G for general, etc, numbers work all the same

another key to play a voice command/taunt or open another submenu.

ie "VGS" would be voicemenu -> general -> S to yell "Shazbot!" in all chat (tribes version of Fuck!)

All of the tribes games are free, should just download one and play around with it for a minute.

Sounds just like the voice menu in many Valve games.

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Generals_Hijacker.jpg

I am hijacking this thread

This is now "Improved Communications GENERAL"

Therefore, we don't discuss just what would be most practical way to access voice macros, now we discuss everything related to player<->player interactions. From spotting, insulting, requesting ride in tank, calling dibs on crate, yelling at everyone not to leave empty tanks in defenseless base, timing synced nukes, to overall coordination.

I think this game really needs some better way to coordinate whole team.

Currently we have three options avaliable: top-left IRC chat, voice commands/taunts and team-wide survey.

We have to be quite creative with this tools to coordinate at more complex tasks.

A map to draw on would be very useful when making a rush.

Or ability to create/join squads, and then have squad chat and ability to voice-command only your squadmates.

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  • 4 weeks later...
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Seriously, I really hate the fact that I have to stop playing to communicate with team and explain what and why are priorities in current situation.

I was thinking, how hard would it be to make one map-screen per building, where map of whole battlefield would be, with *all* currently visible enemies (Like in C&C generals minimap), and where players could mark important locations for everyone else. Maybe even mark discovered beacons on map.

Because i think most of noobs (90% of playerbase) would better understood if they saw shitload of red rectangles on map than some text in top of their screen saying "med rush inc, get ready!"

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To be fair, Q could use improvement in this field. If Q marked things on the map by what they were, beacons would have a huge exclamation mark on the map, maybe a smaller exclamation mark for spotted enemy timed c4 (by the way, you can't currently spot enemy and friendly timed c4, which should have similar text to spotting a beacon). Flashing icons would be nice. Tank icons for enemy tanks incoming, infantry icons for enemy infantry, it can just be 1 tank and infantry icon for all tanks and infantry.

Here is another idea. What if, if you aimed at something and pressed Q, you sent the most default message for it like currently, but if you hold Q, you can select multiple enemies or allies like currently, BUT, if you hold the Q button the chat wheel pops up like suggested and you can send various messages on what you spotted.

Select 5 enemy tanks with Q = spotted.

Select 5 enemy tanks with Q and press 1 = massing

Select 5 enemy tanks with Q and press 2 = rushing

Make the numbers none (q by itself) and 1-4, so it is easier on one hand.

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  • 1 year later...

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