Feelings towards RenX

[vlatkozelka]

When i first heard about RenX i got so damn exited , like finally someone's gonna re-make Renegade .

Applied for phaseIII beta testing with Rencorner , where mostly everyone was excited about the game, and fortunately got approval.The testing phase was actually the time when i most enjoyed the game : most of the players were old ren players, most of em knew what they're doing ... it just felt like good old ren with better graphics and a bit faster pace .We even played clan wars , ofc H2O dominated most of em but it was fun as hell...

When open beta came out things looked pretty promissing , 1000 players ingame it was like a dream come true .I really thought back then that it was the end for old ren and time for RenX .

Unfortunately, people started to leave , most blame the crashes and bugs ... but hey , crashes are gone so where are the people ?

I think it mostly comes to the quality of the games .Join any game and its a total clusterfuck , no one repairs,no strategy, no renegade really ... and the infantry wars are just WTF , dont get me wrong i love how renX encourage getting infantry other than the snipers , but all these added stuff like tib side weapons right next to a usually less powerful primary weapon are just horrible .

And all across the forums i just keep reading posts of people whining how sbh are OP ... wtf , we never had such issue in ren .Nod have less armored vehs so they rely on stealth tech , deal with it(on a side note, if u hate sbh so fukin much stop voting for fukin walls :@).And more worse are the attempts to solve such issues like the EMP nades,AT mines,airstrikes,reducing stealth radius,making sbh reveal a bit when he runs and other stuff...

Renegade was all about teamwork , we once won a game of mesa with only pp and ref vs a complete nod base , but had 2 clan mates on team speak.Now its just buy anything , shoot w.e , and win by score... or just run away from the challenge od defending 3 sides and close Mesa caves to make it infantry only.Its just that i dont get it with all these attempts to make the game easier for the defender (callin out the cool-down in PT).Its called Renegade ffs not mylittleponey , grab ur gun and defend and just quit whining about SBHs .

What im saying is , Ren had perfect balance (most of the time) and i see no reason why devs had to change that by adding so much new stuff into play...stop adding new stuff, let the players learn the game instead of just abusing game mecanics like nuking and calling airstrikes and throwing emp on it ...its hard to express really but it feels less like playing renegade and more like playing the math of RenX engine.

Anyways ... Im not trying to be mean or rude ( sorry about the shouting i just hate walls ), as ive said before in other posts i respect all the hard work devs are doin .And i understand that the project must be fun for them in order to keep on working (hence the added stuff) , im a dev myself and i know how hard it becomes when a project just becomes boring . But i defended RenegadeX for so long.When people were like "they release renX ages ago and was a fail , nothing will change" i tried to defend , I even had a horrible fight with my clan over it if u like to know ... but it just seems everyone was right afterall

OSTKvlat

[yosh56]

I feel like a large portion of the player-count falling had a lot to do with the lack of an auto-patcher. Not many pay enough attention to forums and websites to know they need to re-download everything.

As for Renegade X itself, I see a balance of games with good and bad teams. Generally it comes down to WHEN you come on. Around the 6-10GMT timeframe is when I find actual decent people on. I also never run I to the 'no one repairs' issue. The only issue I run into is blind GDI players that completely walk right by SBHs. Other than onWhiteout, there's no real excuse for missing an SBH walking 10ft beside you.

For the added stuff, I think some of it is 'okay', but like anything added to a game it has to be balanced. I feel like air strikes fit now, as they do enough damage to hurt but not kill, and they suppress repairs if placed right. They don't necessarily break the teamwork factor. EMP nades in and AT mines are...too new still. They have some serious balance issues that mostly stem from defenders getting it easier than they already had it, while attackers get nothing to compensate.

We got the ability to replace the pistol with other weapons which is nice, and now you're not completely lost without a Bar or HON, but now Engineers can cover well over half of the roles that used to require other infantry. Again, it's a beta and a learning process;they can't account for everything that will change when they add something.

As for teamwork related issues, those were present in OldRen too. It was just less prevalent in recent years since all that was left playing was those who knew how the game worked. Now we have to deal with 2002 all over again. Case-and-point being 'SBHs are overpowered', and Nod teams being filled with SBHs. The moment the stealth game gets shut down by a competent GDI defence then it becomes obvious that most people have no idea how to even play Nod beyond stealth.

Balancing takes time; building a COMPETENT player-base takes time, and obviously development in general takes time. Remember, RenX isn't even a year old. (The UDK version anyway)

[A-Rodge]

It is beyond me why people are still complaining about how the developers should have left renegade in its "perfect condition as it was". Essentially, keeping all the classic mechanics, but updating graphics and what-not. While this may seem appealing, it is completely impractical.

Guys, oldies, nostalgics, renegades. Let me break it to you. There is a reason the old renegade had a peak player usage at 50 for any given day. Because Old Renegade, in all its nostalgic glory, is a game with many flaws. Like anyone, I wished westwood would have continued supporting it and EA hadn't pressured the release. I knew as well as the next guy that they were really onto something with the destructible base mechanics.

However, I also understand that if all the mechanics were ported exactly as they were, it would not attract new players or sustain a community. Many of you may be purist and say "That's the way it should be!" But the reality is that this game will not grow if there aren't any innovations.

Like the PC Gamer review, take a moment to appreciate its existence. The hard work and time sacrificed by the developers to produce not just the basic neccessities of a renegade experience, but also try to ENHANCE it. Try is the key word here. Because it is really what counts. I see many purists slam certain additions without giving it a second thought. As if the developers haphazardly made an addition for selfish means. They are giving up a lot of personal time to provide a game that would have never seen the light of day nor gotten any media coverage.

This is why simply criticizing the development without any constructive suggestions is demoralizing. Slams and bashes of attempted innovation is not conducive to grow a community or inspire the developers to keep at it.

I understand how some people might have a deep attachment to this game and its predecessor. It's awesome. It's fun. And even might have a large part in some of our childhoods. But I ask you to think critically about you say in this small community.

[sterps]

As a long time C&C fan, i've been playing the original Renegade since the day it was released back in 2002, and I've got to say, personally i really enjoy Renegade X, more so than original Rengade (More so the latter days).

I completely agree that it was awesome with the initial player base, though I'd say most did leave because of the crashing and bugs. Remember, a large amount of marketing was done for the release of BETA 1. Virtually none to little was done for BETA 2 and BETA 3, i think the reasoning behind this was due to waiting till it's more stable.

If this mod does get released on steam, i'd like to think player numbers will increase greatly.

As for players not returning, some probably want to wait till a more stable version, or they just don't know about BETA 3.

Generally i'm finding people are learning how to play better, and more challenging games are coming to light more, indeed i can't run into buildings as hotwire as often these days.

Though as Yosh said, a lot of the player base is new, so they'll need time to adjust and learn how to play Renegade, i do recall noobs being noobs in original Renegade even up till i stopped playing earlier this year.

I'll disagree with you on the SBH's, there definitely has been an issue with SBH's compared to Original Renegade, stealth in general is much easier to see in Renegade and from greater distance also.

I agree with walls being played too much however.

As for the new items, i rather like the new features ( EMP grenades and AT mines i'm still deciding on). Airstrike fit rather well, help break up sieges, they also fit in canonically from Tiberium Dawn.

The new features keep the game fresh, and add a bit of new strategies in the mix.

I completely disagree with your statement about Renegade's balance being perfect. In actuality, it was no where near balanced. Artilleries were very OP, put several techies behind them and you have an almost invunerable unit that has global map range, massive damage, crazy spread damage, high rate of fire.

Indeed almost every match you played in the second half of Renegade's life was pretty much Nod camping up with artilleries, and GDI trying helplessly to break through.

Many of GDI vehicles were rubbish and needed proper balance.

Not to mention most infantry were barely used.

For me, i got sick of the same strategy being used every game, Renegade went from having completely fresh games that were different from the last ( in the early years), to the same strategy utilised every single game... and that's repetitive, which is boring.

I can't go back to playing Renegade now, as i personally find RenX balanced better.

And as for the old players crossing over. You'll find several of us have, though there's a great number that refuse to give it a go, or just don't like it. Have a look at Jelly or the Renegade forums and you find some of them.

If you can get them over here, you might see some better games.

Good luck with that though.

[Handepsilon]

I guess I'm a bit late to play the multiplayer game of Renegade. Managed to finish that campaign tho

My own personal opinion about RenX as new 'Renegader'

I'm not much of a multiplayer gamer, but surprisingly I found that I can kill people easier than bots in RenegadeX when going one-on-one (even Sniper or PIC/Railgun with 0 credits chara). It seems that for some reason, the bots are designed to rack up kills rather than be effective on the objective, typical deathmatch bot (which is reasonable since the bot scripts are based on UT anyway).

As for the multiplaying itself, I find that games, mostly without the base defenses, are finished within a swift rush of several engies. I know this is probably more of lack of teamworks but... yeah, for me it was too fast that we don't have time to enjoy good 2-sided fights before one team gets the advantage and maul the other. I don't know about the others, but don't you find it rather boring if a battle that is supposedly going to be epic ends within 5 minutes? Just sayin', that's actually why I never participate much in early rushes. I can't do much against it, since the consequences are still dire sometimes. Besides, some players are more concerned about winning the game more than the fun of it

Moving on, I'd like to see a tropical forest (of course, original) map with vehicles moving through the trees instead of open field, basically the glitch of Lakeside's infantry path, except intentional. I think it would be cool to do battles in a place with so much cover plus beautiful scenery. Besides, infantry strength against heavy armors needs some love.

Problem would be APC rush inhibition and arty/mrls siege though.

As for player base, personally I'm trying to get my friends to play along with me sometimes, but... so far zero. I guess the things just feel complicated or something, or because they got minimum specs (one of the guys I usually play with has an i3 computer that plays UT3 quite laggy) or because they have different tastes. It feels sad, since this is one of the best free games for me

As for new features... well, never really use that EMP, and I kinda find the airstrike underwhelming at usage, but overwhelming when getting hit by one. It feels right though, and Tiberium Dawn has them 'strikes (especially for GDI). AT mines... hard to use, and quite expensive. The only thing I'm hyped up is the tech buildings. We need more variety of it, probably ripping some from other C&C games (Hospital, Outpost, etc.)

PS. : Wild imagination, but water travelling is something needs to be tried. Probably as an infantry path or ships? There's that GDI ship in Tiberium Dawn, right?

[RoundShades]

Stability was the only thing that really took a toll on playerbase. Honestly, it is still growing since beta 3. Give people time.

As far as a big push like from a download site, maybe Totem Arts should start looking for other platform databases like GOG or Amazon or something? As many sites that are publishing games for download, this game could try to get in through them.

If it did well on GOG or Amazon, Steam might waive all difficulties and fast-track the game onto their services...

[Truxa]

Other than onWhiteout, there's no real excuse for missing an SBH walking 10ft beside you

Well Yosh, about those SBHs... come to think of it, people started reporting seeing "stealthed" units throughout the map, regardless of distance due to an old GFX driver.

Stealth is handled client-side. What if the communication for the observer of a stealth unit, isnt good enough to actually detect the stealthed unit on the screen?

I'm starting to wonder if it's a plain oversight of the GDI player or just a visual bug that simply doesnt allow them to see the SBH.

Seriously, last time on Walls, I was defending tunnels and main entrance, running in between them constantly. Either the stanks that got in knew exactly when and where I moved, or else it's just that...

Same for SBHs. Tunnels mined, the gaps between the wall and the ramps mined, so only the main entrance needed to be covered. Still, stealthed units got in without me noticing.

[vlatkozelka]

I understand how some people might have a deep attachment to this game and its predecessor. It's awesome. It's fun. And even might have a large part in some of our childhoods. But I ask you to think critically about you say in this small community.

I think you misunderstood me ... i never asked for it to be the same as old Ren, in fact i love the sprinting and the generally greater speed than old ren (which was slow as fuck).You're totally right , Ren died , if devs copy that it will die too ...I'm just mad about all this whining about SBH and balancing while its the players fault they dont know how to defend lol.Especially that they choose non defense map every bloody game only to whine about stealth mechanism right after ... wtf

If you want to hear some good things well , i also love the curves of the arty shots since it gives u an edge in dogfights when hills are present (the small bumps in field), i also like how sbh now can defend himself with the buffed laser rather than unveiling and be like "fuck C:" , the airstrikes are great for breakin some sieges w/o being OP...

But just like people have the right to whine about SBH i also have the right to whine about them whining about SBH

I was just too sad to read that Mesa caves were closed to inf only that made me write that post ... What i meant was instead of learning how to properly break sieges ,we now just run away from em and come up with that kind of solution . NO SIEGE IS UNBREAKABLE ... if all the other team is attacking well hey , they arent defending i'm just asking for the community to learn the game rather than whine about everything (tho i am whining in this post )

[yosh56]

Other than onWhiteout, there's no real excuse for missing an SBH walking 10ft beside you

Well Yosh, about those SBHs... come to think of it, people started reporting seeing "stealthed" units throughout the map, regardless of distance due to an old GFX driver.

Stealth is handled client-side. What if the communication for the observer of a stealth unit, isnt good enough to actually detect the stealthed unit on the screen?

I'm starting to wonder if it's a plain oversight of the GDI player or just a visual bug that simply doesnt allow them to see the SBH.

Seriously, last time on Walls, I was defending tunnels and main entrance, running in between them constantly. Either the stanks that got in knew exactly when and where I moved, or else it's just that...

Same for SBHs. Tunnels mined, the gaps between the wall and the ramps mined, so only the main entrance needed to be covered. Still, stealthed units got in without me noticing.

I'm not speaking from just my own perspective, I'm talking about the fact that I've not been anywhere to actually play in awhile. Watching YouTube videos of people playing while they very obviously walk right by stealth units that show up.

[RoundShades]

It is supposed to get better next patch, the SBH effect visual noticing. Also, no, players do play dumb sometimes. Some videos I even see are of SBH walking right by. Matter of fact, in one of my videos, I see a SBH easily passing by me in the water bridge on islands, like he knew I wouldn't see him or something. I also see a hotwire NEARLY hide behind a steel beam on Walls when I play Nod, and I almost just let them walk right by into my base like I was blind, I had to double take.

People aren't too sharp.