Renerade x will it stay alive ??

[HaTe]

You forgot gz0ne/fnfalls.

But yeah, I could tell he was cheating from the start so I posted that video and got the typical "ur an idiot hez jus btr then u" response. So I got some actual real mods (not from st0rm) to go take a look and post so that the st0rm mods could wake up. Then Evan helped me out by making his own little version of ROF and proving that the pub version of BIATCH didn't block it (and that it worked the exact same from someone else's perspective as mobilest0rm was pulling off). Never knew it was you that suggested that to wilo though.

[rytlock]

Its been a while now been checking the servers and i seen a big drop in play counts in all 3 that's right 3 servers lol even the matrix server seen like 32 to 22 players last week the only time gets full is a course weekends do you think its a taste of things to come later in the year ?

[Garbonzo]

No it will be "dead" as how old renegade was "dead"

There will be a few servers with about 100 players for a very long time. The reason being the devs being unable to correctly fix crashing. The ten people I play(ed) with crash more than ever now and gave up

Before the "patch" (whole new download beta2) we only crashed on map switch. Now you get crashes before map loads, during battles, after map loads, just because you tried to use c4. It really does suck but this is the problem with any open beta testing. Crashes will happen.

So I think the game will "die" until open beta crashing is fixed and a global release happens. I can not wait for such a day as it will be glorious. I give the devs all my best wishes and hope they fix these problems during open beta! May Kane be with you all!

[Xpert]

The only people playing are Euro players. Jelly and mine were the popular US servers and they're both dead lol. Euro players like this game more I guess.

[Valor]

It was like that for the original Ren too.

Or EU players are just cheap bastards who like free games.

[XD_ERROR_XD]

What's wrong with free games then? You guys should learn from us!

[Truxa]

In the English language "cheap" often refers to "The Dutch"

Me being Dutch don't mind it at all, it is kinda funny to be incorporated into a whole language

On topic, I feel Renegade X is dieing, be it slowly. I feel like stopping/pausing the game for a few weeks myself too because of these unbearable crashes, it's no fun to play.

But I have to say something about yesterday:

I noticed 3, yes 3!! fully topped off servers! 40/40 players! And a few with just 1-5. 2 EKT servers and TheMatrixRen server were fully topped off at around 21:30 GMT. Only chance for new players to join those servers is hoping someone crashes the game

Just saying, Even though there is a list of 100 servers (or maybe 50 idk) only a handfull are actually played on.

I dislike Jelly for the time being, with their PT modifications for airstrikes and SBHs, or else I'd be playing those servers.

[Megakoresh]

I think this game suffers from the classic "Faithfulness syndrome". That is the developers are restricting themselves in the design process in order to stay as close as possible to the original game, to the point when it's old flaws or simply outdated design is being inherited by this game as well.

You can read about the details that I mean in particular in my feedback thread, I don't post much, it's easy to find from my profile, but the main problem how I see it is they are too afraid to make some changes that will piss off hardcore fans (will is deliberate here. In my experience a "hardcore fan" is pissed off 100% of the time, unless they get an exact copy of their beloved game with upgraded graphics. And even then they are pissed off because "the original looked clearer").

I have said, that me and the clan I am in seriously considered this to be our next game of focus, we conducted an event for it and played it for a very long time almost non-stop and pretty much everyone had the exact same complaints that I outline in my feedback.

The whole spam problem, the games dragging out, the gunplay and the movement system, the low-damage/high-health model, being forced to play or have an engineer on a leash to be even remotely useful: all those things are problems most people will not be willing to deal with in 2014 and they don't. And in order for the game to stay fresh with new players coming in, some brave steps have to be taken in terms of combat balance, pacing, map design (especially the invisible walls everywhere), gunplay and so on.

Furthermore some ranking system with badges would also be nice: you can login with Steam ID, so why not enable stat tracking which can be linked to a rank system. A simple badge next to the player's name in the scoreboard can do wonders in terms of attachment factor for many players.

The unique part of Renegade is the Base-Gameplay link and attached gameplay elements (repairs, super weapons, sieging/combined arms, advanced classes and attack-defence balance). As long as those elements exist the game's "soul" exist. Everything else can be changed, no doubt followed by a volley of screams from veterans about every little number tweak. But if not, I see no prospect of growth for this game, sadly.

Will the developers be willing to sacrifice their relationship with hardcore veteran crowd in order to bring Renegade IP the recognition it deserves, or will they be content developing a niche game without gaining anymore players, is up to them to decide. But what I have seen in terms of feedback from players who are not fans of/never played original Renegade leaves little room for pondering as to what the issues are (and FYI the sole person in my clan who plays Modern Military Shooters didn't come online during the event at all. Most of us come from games like SW: Battlefront, Tribes, BF2142, as far as these types of MP shooters are concerned).

[Truxa]

I didn't want to quote

I have only 1 thing to say:

Renegade X is not Call of Duty.

[Aircraftkiller]

It doesn't have to be CoD to be like C&C and not inherit all of the shitty bugs/balance issues that Renegade had. It's like you read his point and just ignored it and focused on something he didn't say.

[Nero]

I think this game suffers from the classic "Faithfulness syndrome". That is the developers are restricting themselves in the design process in order to stay as close as possible to the original game, to the point when it's old flaws or simply outdated design is being inherited by this game as well.

You can read about the details that I mean in particular in my feedback thread, I don't post much, it's easy to find from my profile, but the main problem how I see it is they are too afraid to make some changes that will piss off hardcore fans (will is deliberate here. In my experience a "hardcore fan" is pissed off 100% of the time, unless they get an exact copy of their beloved game with upgraded graphics. And even then they are pissed off because "the original looked clearer").

I have said, that me and the clan I am in seriously considered this to be our next game of focus, we conducted an event for it and played it for a very long time almost non-stop and pretty much everyone had the exact same complaints that I outline in my feedback.

The whole spam problem, the games dragging out, the gunplay and the movement system, the low-damage/high-health model, being forced to play or have an engineer on a leash to be even remotely useful: all those things are problems most people will not be willing to deal with in 2014 and they don't. And in order for the game to stay fresh with new players coming in, some brave steps have to be taken in terms of combat balance, pacing, map design (especially the invisible walls everywhere), gunplay and so on.

Furthermore some ranking system with badges would also be nice: you can login with Steam ID, so why not enable stat tracking which can be linked to a rank system. A simple badge next to the player's name in the scoreboard can do wonders in terms of attachment factor for many players.

The unique part of Renegade is the Base-Gameplay link and attached gameplay elements (repairs, super weapons, sieging/combined arms, advanced classes and attack-defence balance). As long as those elements exist the game's "soul" exist. Everything else can be changed, no doubt followed by a volley of screams from veterans about every little number tweak. But if not, I see no prospect of growth for this game, sadly.

Will the developers be willing to sacrifice their relationship with hardcore veteran crowd in order to bring Renegade IP the recognition it deserves, or will they be content developing a niche game without gaining anymore players, is up to them to decide. But what I have seen in terms of feedback from players who are not fans of/never played original Renegade leaves little room for pondering as to what the issues are (and FYI the sole person in my clan who plays Modern Military Shooters didn't come online during the event at all. Most of us come from games like SW: Battlefront, Tribes, BF2142, as far as these types of MP shooters are concerned).

Of course Renegade X need some changes but not only to attract new players. If you are a real gamer u dont need to make a game "like you want", as Truxa said, Renegade X is not Call of Duty, Battlefield or something like any other shooter. Ren X has its own gamestyle with its own units/weapons/etc. The world dont need an exact 100% copy of the original Renegade but you cant make a new game saying that is a remake of Renegade while it looks like Call of Duty more than the original Renegade.

The Renegade MP is a brute diamond, a good gamer who loves strategic-teamplay shooters would play it but if he only tries to make the game look like another shooter which is not Renegade then is a rat kid.

Also I can see that not a lot of people know what is a "Beta game" everyone is complaining about crashes, bugs and exploits and leaving. The game is in Beta because the Devs are still working on fixes for crashes and bugs. If everyone leaves because of that is just because they are kids, the devs need support to find out and fix the problems of the game, thats the purpose of a Beta and they are using their free time and their money to give us this awesome game again and fix all problems we report.

[Unit]

Mistake number 1

releasing the game with an error that caused crashing to the desktop after a map ends (and not immediately releasing a fix for said bug).

this error lost the war for renegade-x, its just unbelievable that somebody would waste so many years of theirs and other peoples lives by pre-releasing the game with such a cataclysmic flaw.

To all the beta testers, what part of looking at the desktop after every map was enhancing your game experience? having to wait a minute to get back ingame by watching unskippable videos too? I wouldn't be surprise if 90% of anyone that would have been interested in this game simply went back to what they were doing the moment it became apparent they were about to CTD -all the time-.

Mistake number 2

Releasing the game without an anti-cheat program.

if mistake number one wasnt annoying enough, guess what, now that you're back in-game you have to deal with hackers and lots of them. which fairy tale did the creators come from where online games don't get hacked online without strict precautions taken and countermeasures tested and firmly in place?

Its like none of the creators actually have been a part of renegades bloody and scarred legacy of cheats, bad anti-cheats, catching cheaters, waiting for decent anti-cheat updates and everything that goes with it. not to mention that the unreal script is so readily available to anyone who wants to make cheats but nevermind all that.

Mistake number 3

Glitched up, weird ass vehicle physics/driving

Renegades is split 50 50 between tanks and infantry combat, with vehicles easily being the most important aspect of the game since many maps simply cant be won without them. so you finally got back into the game after the 4th consecutive crash of this gaming session, and the hacker finally left the server alone after single handedly winning 3 maps in a row causing a CTD every time. you wanna drive a tank? what you dont? you dont because its like contracting parkinsons disease? I totally agree.

so what are you left with? an infantry deathmatch with bases that the invisible people always kill with their airstrike guarded beacons, while you are spammed to death by EVA announcements and sprinting-as-fast-as-APC tiberium auto rifle wielding soldiers.

Renegade has taken 12 years to get in the virtually dead state its in, Renegade X should have been its saviour, but instead of learning from all the mistakes, flaws and just shit that the old game made and went through, you've decided being hit by all of Renegades problems all at once wont affect you? so within what 10 weeks it is completely dead too.

A pathetic and sorely disappointing execution of otherwise decent content, and whats worse is this going down has cut the originals numbers by about 3 if thats even possible.

I remember in an old renegadeX video, the april fools special, where it was said that "The goal of renegade x, is to kill renegade" well, you managed it.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Guest

[Megakoresh]

It's like you read his point and just ignored it and focused on something he didn't say.

This is precisely what he did and I can assure you this is precisely what most of the so-called "hardcore fans" (there is really no proper name for them, maybe fanboi?) will do. In my opinion they are best ignored, like the way they themselves ignore reason, but it can be a tricky thing to do when you are a developer as they are often very vocal.

[Aircraftkiller]

I've had that issue many times over the years - if I suggest anything that makes airborne units less of a flying deathtrap without suggesting that they be left to dominate everything, someone will inevitably come in and say "BUT YOU JUST WANT AIRCRAFT TO DOMINATE EVERYTHING" even though I clearly gave many viable counters to them, including rockets, machine gun fire, et al. - but they think "LOL IF I CANT USE TEH SNIP0RZ 4 TEH EAZY KILZ FROM TEH MAX RANGE THEN I WONT BE TEH PRO" and they rage about it.

I'm hoping they'll fix up the gameplay balance and focus on improving the template Renegade gave them - and barring that, at the very least I'd like to see modding tools come out so people can make their own version that's more like C&C gameplay.

[Megakoresh]

I'm hoping they'll fix up the gameplay balance and focus on improving the template Renegade gave them - and barring that, at the very least I'd like to see modding tools come out so people can make their own version that's more like C&C gameplay.

Amen to that.

[SFJake]

Whats the point of mods with such a small community?

Like was said though, we really should just be waiting out for a true release. Hopefully the game can get some kind of hype again on a true release thats actually working.

If anything, I'd close the current version of the game, call it closed beta again and be done with it. Nobody should be joining the game now.

[Nero]

Mistake number 1

releasing the game with an error that caused crashing to the desktop after a map ends (and not immediately releasing a fix for said bug).

this error lost the war for renegade-x, its just unbelievable that somebody would waste so many years of theirs and other peoples lives by pre-releasing the game with such a cataclysmic flaw.

Almost every game crashes in Beta, as i said the beta is there to fix these problems

Mistake number 2

Releasing the game without an anti-cheat program.

As devs said, release an anti-cheat program takes a long time and a lot of games of big companies were released without anti-cheat and they didnt have so much problems, only a few kids hackers who were banned in a week or two.

Mistake number 3

Glitched up, weird ass vehicle physics/driving

Renegades is split 50 50 between tanks and infantry combat, with vehicles easily being the most important aspect of the game since many maps simply cant be won without them. so you finally got back into the game after the 4th consecutive crash of this gaming session, and the hacker finally left the server alone after single handedly winning 3 maps in a row causing a CTD every time. you wanna drive a tank? what you dont? you dont because its like contracting parkinsons disease? I totally agree.

Go to the war, you think 1 or 2 soldiers with machinegun can blow it up? of course no, tanks are tanks, you only need 2 or 3 mobius/mendoza or 1-2 engineers ambushing a vehicle and its destroyed. Tanks are tanks no infantry, right?

Also the vehicle lag has been fixed (in servers with good net) and you can play and use tanks without that "parkinson". You don't believe me? Go play and see if im wrong.

Renegade has taken 12 years to get in the virtually dead state its in, Renegade X should have been its saviour, but instead of learning from all the mistakes, flaws and just shit that the old game made and went through, you've decided being hit by all of Renegades problems all at once wont affect you? so within what 10 weeks it is completely dead too.

12 years? Seriously? Make a mod for a game (Unreal Tournament 3) is not nearly the same as make a whole new game, develop a game requires A LOT more work, you will have, of course, more troubles with bugs, etc. So Renegade X hasnt taken 12 years (only 7 years) and you have to know that devs has only used their free time to develop the game. Other games like Watchdogs has taken 5 years with a full team of developers working on it, and the Final Fantasy XV has taken 8 years and STILL in development!

There are no "mistakes", the game needs fixes and rebalances but if you have played more games you'll see that ALL games start unbalanced and with the time (not the first month, it takes 1+ years) they get more balanced gameplay.

And I can tell more, if you played/remember the release of Battlefield 3, THE RELEASE, BF3 had had constant lag, crashes and a lot more issues, but of course if you see the game in the TV and you pay for it the devs "will do something fast" so don't worry.

Finding the crash issues is not easy because the logs don't save the information about the crash (logically) and they are trying to do all they can spending their money to fix them, if you don't like them ok, don't play, but the game is not dead, people like you kill the game because you cant wait 1 minute every map change to join again the server or because "the tanks are too op"... Seriously go play Candy Crush Saga...

(Sorry for my bad english..)

Edited April 15, 2014 by Guest

[Aircraftkiller]

Modding tools are also for map development. I've had a form of Unreal 3/UDK installed on my computer since 2009. I'm versed enough in the engine to create some pretty neat maps for it. I can't do anything for RenX until they release modding tools.

I also have a library of Tiberian Dawn models that I had built a while ago and I'd like to have a reason to bring them up to next-gen standards. Without tools, my models are just more UDK screenshots that nobody can do anything with. They'll just sit on my portfolio website and be used by no one.

[GatsuFox]

I think the best way for this game to gain popularity is to release on STEAM when all of the bugs are ironed out. STEAM is extremely popular and everyone loves trying free games. Word of mouth is an extremely powerful tool for popularity.

[Canucck]

Not having the launcher auto-update people from beta1 to beta2 is what really wrecked the playerbase. Even with the crashes there still would have been a good carry over between the version, but now greenlight is pretty much the only thing that will bring it back. I haven't seen a NA server with players in like 2 weeks

[cncforever]

Not having the launcher auto-update people from beta1 to beta2 is what really wrecked the playerbase. Even with the crashes there still would have been a good carry over between the version, but now greenlight is pretty much the only thing that will bring it back. I haven't seen a NA server with players in like 2 weeks

I think the crashes on join, map change and explosions are what has wrecked the player base.

On many Servers, I crash as soon as I join 100% of the time and am sent back to the Desktop. I don't know how many others this is happening to but maybe this explains some of the empty servers and fewer players.

If I wasn't a fan, I would have left and not come back. I can only imagine how a new player who has no Cnc background or nostalgia would act.

Edit: I finally got into game and it crashed to desktop after an Ion cannon explosion and there were only 11 players, how many who crashed will decide not to come back...

These crashes only occurred at map change in Beta 1.

[Soldieroffate]

It's the crashes, imbalance, and other flaws that really killed the playerbase. Mind that not everyone that downloaded the game during beta 1 are longtime vets. I can assume that most of them got word of the game via word of mouth or something similar to that and decided to try it out. Also, how would a new player feel about Nod having a character that's nigh-undetectable? Even for Renegade vets, SBHs in this game are much harder to detect.

Hell, I get this syndrome at times too, especially with genres of games I don't enjoy. It's only the notion of having played Renegade since early 2006 that kept me hooked to this game in spite of the issues.

Hopefully this will change in the future.

[Eagle XI]

You complained about Stealth Guy of all things ingame ? okay.. tbh he needs +1 c4 capacity and a melee weapon for killing silently.

And then let me complain about unending mine-spam(putting a global limit on mine count without enforcing a limit per player character is only doing half the thing), the fact that GDI gets a heroic advanced engineer and nearly a whole roster of heroes whilst Nod is all bout RP'ing the faceless mooks that get farmed enmasse. Nobody can tell the harvester to stop dont feed them when under siege.

Im pretty sure its rather factors like unmoderated servers with atleast 1 cheater(as evidenced in the form of that asshat with orca in no-flight field map yesterday night, not even mentioning the aimbotter in tunnel) in it, too many people running around without knowing C&C's C let alone having had played C&C95 or Ren in his life even once, inable to realize how funny they look as they keep executing the wrong strategy over and over again, that you need to manually tweak the .ini's inside UDK to get a stable framerate on a lowspec-system. Tbh those may have had scare away people more than stealth troops with actual stealth

Edit: And yeah, mass ion-cannon lagged like hell indeed.

[Molested Bunny]

There will be fans of it for sure. Even on downtime hours of european mornings one server is almost full, and peak hours of european evenings see 3-4 servers full.

Will it die? Nope. Will it have only a small following of hardcore fanbois until the truckload of bugs and glitches will be fixed? Certainly.

[cncforever]

<--snip-->

Im pretty sure its rather factors like unmoderated servers with atleast 1 cheater(as evidenced in the form of that asshat with orca in no-flight field map yesterday night, <--snip-->

I remember that, I was on the Nod team. The Orca and other cheating was annoying but I did have to laugh when even that couldn't save them from us. It was fun to play on that team because almost every time I suggested a rush whether it be with Chem troopers in the cave, Flame Tanks against the AGT or Stanks, everyone was game and there was quite a bit of team work.

This made me think about a friend feature where you can add people to a list so you know where they are.

[Eagle XI]

I actually very much enjoyed it too, when game crashed at match end almost went bananas as i saw the system clock, only to remember morning its saturday and thought "phew, what a fight. i do not have this much fun everytime."

Hints:

I was the one with rocketlauncher on ramp, for long thought im the only sane guy because if there was just 4 more rocketguys our dmg would cancell their repair for good allowing the arty to knack aslong we focus fire one at a time.

I was that stealth guy who managed to hijack their mammoth behind at the first breakthrough.

I was that guy who failed at 'jihad jeep' because mistaken it for already rigged, damn me.

[Soldieroffate]

You complained about Stealth Guy of all things ingame ? okay.. tbh he needs +1 c4 capacity and a melee weapon for killing silently.

This alone will break the game and would make all of GDI quit/switch to Nod on a map with no base defenses.

SBH has it easy here for two reasons:

-Sprinting to get away easier if someone gets up close

-Their cloaks do not 'flash' if they take damage

They didn't have these two advantages in vanilla Renegade. If they get spotted, they die. Simple as that, especially on a server with longtime players.

[Eagle XI]

Whilst i can easily prove that the existence of an base without any defence is pointless, rather would like to contribute towards the discussion, thus wont further derail into rather irrevelant to the topic subjects.

However...

-Their cloaks do not 'flash' if they take damage

If this is absolutely true and confirmed for not being a silly bug, then im obliged to say that i cannot possibly consider this as a legitimate 'feature'.

Even in the most ancient ur-example they flash when taking damage where scattering infantry around the base is pretty much the only form of detection besides base-defences.

Which takes me to bring up a point i frequently made concerning CC95 balance: GDI needs a mobile detector vehicle. PERIOD.

Hereby i am in no way proposing a mobile permanent detector of cheese. No, i had rather my better thoughts about how this idea could be brought within context of Renegade. It will be an unarmed, otherwise non-functional, low health and high armor vehicle, that would not only require to set up but use its primary function in the form of an detection-'weapon' that unveils stealth within effective radius(via disrupting the electronics of the cloaking devices, sort of an electronic warfare vehicle so they shimmer and are marked on all friendly hud when within radius) on for a duration around itself, and only then needs can begin to 'reload' after detection duration has expired. If proven to be too much of an dead-weight may want to add ECM purpose(similar function to that of chinese ecm tank in CCgenerals) in undeployed mobile states as a bonus.

In short summary it will be:

+ mobile detection provider.

+ (Possibly) ECM function in limited radius around it.

+ high armor.

- unarmed.

- low health.

- eats from the vehicle cap, taking away a slot that could be a fighting vehicle.

- when nod alternates strategy upon sighting may become quickly obsolete.

[SFJake]

Why a vehicle?

There was a motion sensor seen as a special item in the closed beta (that wasn't implemented, just in the menu). I personally like the idea that GDI could just buy those and place them as highly vulnerable sensors that completely prevent cloaking within a zone of effect (maybe even only in line of sight of the sensor).

I don't like vehicles being that solution, personally.

[Soldieroffate]

-Their cloaks do not 'flash' if they take damage

If this is absolutely true and confirmed for not being a silly bug, then im obliged to say that i cannot possibly consider this as a legitimate 'feature'.

Even in the most ancient ur-example they flash when taking damage where scattering infantry around the base is pretty much the only form of detection besides base-defences.

It's not a silly bug. I've shot a SBH outside of its visual range with bullet weapons and it only displays the hit marker. The cloak itself does not get disrupted at all.

The only way you can actually disrupt its cloak is to shoot it with a volt rifle.