Need a "Classic" mode for this game.

[Unit]

Yes I realise its a beta, dont get panties in a bunch.

Anyway, So, a classic mode, where everything is as close to the original game as can possibly be. where all these fruity things dont exist.

• Falling from above 1m doesnt hurt.
  
• No Parachutes (Enjoy your fall )
  
• Mcfarlan and his OPgun dont exist/werent born/ate by amoured bears and /or rabid chipmunks /died in fire (inside the red barn).
  
• Nukes/Ions can always be disarmed
  
• No free snipers
  
• No throwable grenades/buyable weapons/extras of any kind
  
• No Airstrikes of any description
  
• No Sprint
  
• No weapons ignore armour
  
• No capturable buildings
  
• No spotting
  
• Voice Command spam without Q
  
• Red Barn on field
  
• Spy crate is SBH
  
• No 99% chance of nuke/ion death crates
  
• Faster vehicles
  
• Slower tank projectiles
  
• Longer range weapons
  
• Longer view distance on SBH & Stanks
  
• Single tusk rocket per secondary shot for mammy
  
• Mammy cannons shoot like they do in stock ren.
  
• No arty lob shells
  
• No MLRS turret rotation.
  
• No easily driving tanks onto other tanks
  
• No burst fire for Laser rifle.
  
• Smaller LCG and Chaingun model
  
• No wind up for either chaingun or LCG
  
• No clip for PIC or Rail gun
  
• No secondary fire for Volt Rifle
  
• No Iron sights
  
• No Night vision
  
• Patch with classic gun.

That would be pretty neat. especially if it was like a mutator, just a flick of a switch

[Raker57]

- Ability to buy through walls.

- Ability to fool obelisk by backing up and shooting at ground.

[super_gsx]

But all these things made the game... better.

[Goober Trooper]

So basically... telling the devs to throw away everything they worked for?

[Purdurabo]

If you want a game exactly like the original why not just play the original?

Though I would imagine that when modders get their hand on this game we will have a classic mode with changes that are only necessary due to engine limitations.

[TheGroundsKeeper]

I too prefer more like the classic, problem is when you add more gameplay to perfect gameplay it isnt perfect anymore.

Not that Renegade was perfect, but close IMO.

I absolutly hate the spread and limited range they put on everything.

The Airstrike is probably the worst implemented in my eyes, it is the ultimate teamplay wrecker, it is the worst, requires no skill or teamplay, you are a turd in my eyes if you use it.

What is a nice thing with renegade X is that alot of the bugs have been fixed. I love that the proximity mines works with corners now, sneaky mining is way better now.

Snipers scoping dont glitch all over the place now, and the ridicilous tunnel beacons are gone aswell.

I dont mind the changes to the MLRS and the Arty either.

Unintended Base to Base shit like on the old Island is gone aswell.

And where renegade got very little love after it was released and EA took over, Renegade X, is still being worked on, and i believe that with more tweaking and polishing, Renegade X will be even greater game than the Old Ren.

[iran]

Not sure if this is a troll thread or not but I have a game just for you, which addresses all your complaints:

As a long time dedicated Renegade veteran I feel Renegade X completely addresses all Renegade issues and imbalances and totally doesn't add any new unbalanced units completely without any justification.

[omega79]

spotting was in classic renegade

Spy SBH was not in classic renegade

crates only had money in classic renegade

[Unit]

- Ability to buy through walls.

Yes

- Ability to fool obelisk by backing up and shooting at ground.

No

But all these things made the game... better.

(its still a beta so np) but the only thing better about renegade X from the original atm is the graphics, the grahpics are WAY better, so combining the two would create the perfect game.

So basically... telling the devs to throw away everything they worked for?

I dont know why people dont seem to get this, and this is a problem amongst all gaming communities ive ever been part of. but simply this "Just because you worked on something doesnt make it good/better/worth keeping."

A lot of stuff is test based, you make it to see how people react, and to see how it plays, I've discovered this with things ive built and given to people, offered to communities like ships, weapons, my map for renegade. I made a lot of stuff where I though "you know, this is badass" and a lot of other people totally disagree, that doesnt make them wrong, however in a greater sense their opinion is more important than your own, since you are asking more other people to use it.

So to make things a little more suited to the people whom you are asking to use it, change is required, feedback needs to be taken on board. In the end your work my turn out very different to how it was in the start.

If you want a game exactly like the original why not just play the original?

I have played the original for a depressingly long time, Renegade x is shiny and new, its still being worked on and i believe has the potential to completely kill the original renegade at some point in time, once everything is worked out.

and the only way it could ever hope to kill the original game, is to copy it exactly, offering the player everything they had known before, with the eye candy of massively superior graphics.

Though I would imagine that when modders get their hand on this game we will have a classic mode with changes that are only necessary due to engine limitations.

hopefully.

~snip~

pretty much agree with all this.

Not sure if this is a troll thread or not but I have a game just for you, which addresses all your complaints:

As a long time dedicated Renegade veteran I feel Renegade X completely addresses all Renegade issues and imbalances and totally doesn't add any new unbalanced units completely without any justification.

No sarcasm here.

spotting was in classic renegade

No it wasnt.

Spy SBH was not in classic renegade

the spy wasnt in classic renegade altogether. however when it was the player was turned into an SBH.

crates only had money in classic renegade

not when actually decent crates came into existance.

[R315r4z0r]

Why not just go play the original then? It makes no sense to ask this here when there is already a game that does every thing you're asking for and has been out for 12 years.

[Unit]

thanks for not reading anything and still posting.

[R315r4z0r]

I did read the whole thread. It makes no sense to have a classic mode when there is still a fully functional original game that people still play. Not only would it take forever to create, it would mean they would also neglect other things that need their attention. Plus, having such a dedicated game mode would divide the community up and the population on servers would be small.

I don't think it's a bad idea... I just don't think its necessary. Maybe if no one played the original anymore... but people do so it really isn't needed here.

[Unit]

by divide the community you mean like how there are several renegade communities that each dedicate their server to specific types of renegade game play? this is in fact what has kept renegade alive for so long.

St0rm = install all the mods and fruity things

MPF = create all the maps/vehicles/weapons and install all the skin packs

Jelly = Dont mod anything, leave all alone.

N00bstories = if you get killed ban them

The list goes on. having a dedicated game mode would divide the community about as much as the way I might chose not to wear the same colour shirt as you.

If you believe that forcing all servers at all times to be exactly the same as one another will boost the longevity of Renegade X you are fatally mistaken.

[TheGroundsKeeper]

I did read the whole thread. It makes no sense to have a classic mode when there is still a fully functional original game that people still play. Not only would it take forever to create, it would mean they would also neglect other things that need their attention. Plus, having such a dedicated game mode would divide the community up and the population on servers would be small.

I don't think it's a bad idea... I just don't think its necessary. Maybe if no one played the original anymore... but people do so it really isn't needed here.

Well i think age is getting the old renegade. Not because of gameplay and grapics, but simply because it is starting to require alot of searching and research to get to work.

Having to go to sites download special fanmade patches and join suspect looking sites, and set combability modes and adding manual commands in the shortcuts to get the game to work, are too advanced for the general gaming population.

But i do agree that most suggestions are totally out of scope and quite silly to even bring up for a game in open beta.

The devs need to focus on the imidiate issues at hand, and finish polishing what they have already made before they can even start thinking about this and that.

[Goober Trooper]

So basically... telling the devs to throw away everything they worked for?

I still stand by this. You're basically telling the devs to throw away everything they worked for and have Renegade X serve as a graphical update. Doing this would be a waste of potential and creativity. You don't develop anything new if you just recreate the same game with new graphics. Hell, even Call of Duty changes things a teeny tiny bit with each game they pump out of the desecrated womb of that franchise

[Unit]

You don't develop anything new if you just recreate the same game with new graphics.

basically insulting the entire mod foundation there.

but who said that new = better? If the game hadnt been copied almost point for point, building for building, tank for tank, map for map, then you might have some ground to stand on with your arguement, unfortunately you dont.

recreating the same maps tanks weapons and infantry creates the exact same game as the old one with better graphics, (obviously) the old game has established gameplay and flow. This version (its still a beta so hopefully it all works out in the end) doesnt have that so far, its just a clusterfuck of airstrikes and mammoth tanks breaking vehicle combat completely. grenades / mcfarlands, impossible to see SBH, tiberium autorifles and impossible to disarm beacons breaking infantry combat completely.

Since the game is a clone of the predecessor I dont think its unreasonable to want a slightly altered version which pays true homage to the old ways of playing.

[Packet]

I like this game. Some of it reminds me of UT 2004 of course. It reminds me a little of Starsiege Tribes 1 except for Tribes did not have tanks. The Annihilation mod is a more complex FPS than most games. UT had little on tribes except for graphics and the new vehicles in 2004 of course over the 1998 Game of the Year that ran on 56K. http://annihilation.info/ The full version of Tribes 1 is available for free there if you search around. The Annihilation and Renegades mods were the best of the best of tribes with much more capabilities and fun available than the stock game. I still think Tribes 1 had UT beat in CTF action and any other game since. A bit difficult to learn but massively fun. The new Tribes Ascend is still not quite like Annihilation or Renegades mods of tribes 1.

You would have to try the 8 different player types in the Anni mod that had very different weapons and capabilities like the necromancer which can cut thru walls with a spell and the Chameleon which cannot be seen as different except for name recognition to understand how much that mod really has. Or the light weight HEavy Troll that could rocket over hills and truly ski unlike the current Tribes Ascend while repairing himself with troll pack.

I wonder if we will see a Redeemer like rocket here? Tribes 1 Annihilation mod had an 8 shot optical seeking missile that was reloadable from a deployable inventory station the Heaviest Class could carry. Many did not like being OSsed. Particularily if the Titan was off the map with borders turned off but they could still be found. I think the OS in the tribes mod existed before the Redeemer in UT. These were much more fun than drones of War Inc which simply marked the enemy locations for your team.

The TribeX mod in the Demo which was lost to a hard drive crash was one of the best lower grav mods. Just enough to make everyone fly a little faster/longer ski further but not overkill. I know Postal 2 STP Share the Pain also has a good anti gravity mod which used the earlier Unreal engine that does well too named Turtle F_____. In that case its quite a bit more anti gravity.

At least in Tribes 1 when you destroyed the enemy base there they can repair it and the base auto weapons. There is a great deal more strategy and defense building capabilities. Originally you could even use the enemy inventory station as a chameleon. The Renegades mod also had chameleon. These were truly some of the best team and differing classes type of games ever available. I have yet to see such a game with so many deployables including teleports in the enemy base ever again.

The loss of this game is the unrepairable buildings once they are destroyed unlike Tribes 1. I have seen in less than 2 minutes the other team take out a building losing all character classes. Then 45 minutes more or less of less fun available. Just my take on it. Perhaps the earlier CLASSIC game was similar, if so I guess that is just the nature of it but it takes from the game when there is no way of recouping the lost weapons or characters.

I'm not sure I like the box designation around players to show if they are your team or their team, perhaps just yellow or red names would be desirable perhaps more than a red or green arrow over their heads. It always reminds me a bit of the hitboxes I have seen in wallhack videos of games. I am guessing it is a Unreal engine convention and was probably there in some others in the past.

So far I haven't found a really large FAQ or tutorial on all keybinds yet. Perhaps one exists. One of the nicest keybinds in Delta Force with those huge maps was the scroll key to walk. Press it and you walk without holding any keys down for miles. I have seen a few games like H&G where chat window allows you to do that somewhat. But it was always very helpful on tired fingers in BHD and Joint Ops.

One of the main things I can appreciate about any game is the size of the maps. This is decent sized yet still reminds me of UT or Tribes 3 which ran on unreal too. Novalogic Delta Force game such as BHD Blackhawk Down and JO Joint Operations and the earlier Land Warrior etc games shared something in common with Tribes 1. You could go anywhere up too anything you see and climb on and walk around it and the map tiles went on and on for miles. Tribes 1 could have borders turned on or off. Unreal games have always lacked this. I understand they can map rooms together and create larger ones. The original UT did have some base jumping aspects in space but nothing tiled like that as I recall and later it got no better. People some people still play BHD and JO and even tribes.

Not sure if this game has a bullet drop parameter figured in or just for some weapons or tanks. A lot of Unreal engine games do not seem to utilize it if it exists.

One of the few games that has bigger maps still with borders on is a beta called H&G or Heroes and Generals. Outside of the OP German MG and Panzer tanks it suffers from being a Strategy and FPS combination game. But some of the maps are big much larger than most Unreal games.

Its nice to play a Beta that reminds me of Demos of the past Thank You for that. Instead of F2P vs P2W that exists with most new games that often also use the Unreal engine. I don't know if the plans are to make this a F2P/P2W with extra weapons or a FV PC release or something for a console. But I will say one of the things that really makes a games popularity last is the release of a map editor and the ability as it is now to run your own server like earlier games. Being able to choose a location or IP or server that pings better for you is a significant plus over many of the new F2P games. Having the admin capability of your own server is a significant plus also that many of the new F2P games are also missing. Additionally missing in many new games is mod building capability unless one wants to port it somehow to UT or present it as a platform on UT.

So to sum up my thoughts about many of the new games which are mostly F2P/P2W. I am not specifically referring to Renegade-X here just new games in the new format which Renegade-X is not setup like and what they are often missing compared to great games of the past.

No map editor.

Often small maps, no large map tiling capability that runs to infinity or near it. I know we don't see it much anymore.

No admin capability.

No personal server or serving capability. Thus no choice of where and distance to join by IP.

No ability to create a mod or modify the game.

And All weapons available to everyone not just P2W players.

Or female vs male player types. Sometimes females are harder to hit. In the Sierra produced tribes they were lighter damaged easier and were faster than the male counter part.

This also brings up what player configuration choices are available besides the weapons

In JO I can be an Indonesian government soldier/adviser on the otherwise White Coalition side that includes Russian and German and English and US side confusing the Rebel Indonesian players as to which team I am on.

I will just mention my dislike of full TPS games vs a little ghosting of corners in FPS. War Inc was good in FPS. Though it is dead from hacks now left unpatched it went with both modes available separately then later it in FV it combined both TPS and FPS which would be okay if it was a server side setting not a client setting. This ruined the game play in my mind unless you like full time TPS.

Just my thoughts devs. Thanks for the fun. I hope you don't get bought up like Hedone was by SOE and renamed Bulletrun and then canceled. Renegade-X does seem to move faster action wise than SOE's Planetside 2 which seems like a slow version of a wannabe - wantabe be Tribes like type of game to me.

I believe PS2 has jetpacks without skiing etc. One more option that could be added here.

Hedone /Bulletrun was also a fun Unreal based game though it lacked vehicles and planes.

Here is link also at the link to a video I put above that shows a bit of Tribes 1 Annihilation mod one can tell by the map. It lists the top ten video (FPS) games of the past. Though they did not list any Delta Force games a mistake in my mind, Tribes 1 did make the list and would have been higher if not missing single player play bah. The mods had bots too if you wanted to put them in. Worth a watch. Surprising what they picked as number 1. Not what I would have expected.

http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/dydk ... 0-shooters

[XD_ERROR_XD]

You don't develop anything new if you just recreate the same game with new graphics.

basically insulting the entire mod foundation there.

but who said that new = better? If the game hadnt been copied almost point for point, building for building, tank for tank, map for map, then you might have some ground to stand on with your arguement, unfortunately you dont.

recreating the same maps tanks weapons and infantry creates the exact same game as the old one with better graphics, (obviously) the old game has established gameplay and flow. This version (its still a beta so hopefully it all works out in the end) doesnt have that so far, its just a clusterfuck of airstrikes and mammoth tanks breaking vehicle combat completely. grenades / mcfarlands, impossible to see SBH, tiberium autorifles and impossible to disarm beacons breaking infantry combat completely.

Since the game is a clone of the predecessor I dont think its unreasonable to want a slightly altered version which pays true homage to the old ways of playing.

Most issues you planned will be fixed/worked on in the next patch. Although i don't see what's wrong with McFarland or grenades, they're not that hard to evade/kill

Also, razor... If i had to pick a choice between playing C&C Renegade or Renegade X if they were an exact clone of each other (even graphics-wise)... I'd pick renegade X, they at least have potential for a growing community. C&C Renegade doesn't. It's pretty obvious really. Also, comparing this game to C&C Renegade to such a degree is unfair. The developers have already said they wanted to make this game a spiritual successor to the original, and not a carbon copy.

[Unit]

snip

It -is- a clone of the original game -everything- has been recreated pretty much exactly as it was, from the map layouts (sure they may have more bells, whistles and bushes and palm trees here and there but they are the same non the less) to the tanks right down to the weapon effects and the clothes the characters are wearing. you can argue 'its not a clone' all you want, but it is.

its the difference between a pencil drawing and a digital painting of the same object, one may look prettier, but it is at the very foundation, the same. Nod still need artys as their main field force, mammys are still slow as hell and cockblock everything including allied tanks, flame tanks still murder everything in range, sbh nukes still end almost every no base defence map in the exact same frustrating manner that they always did.

the only reason its a little 'different' is because its on the UT3 engine and so is by default a little different than the original.

It is this reason that adding things that were not in the original game (which throw the gameplay into the wind) is extremely annoying.

[highbuzz]

The Airstrike is probably the worst implemented in my eyes, it is the ultimate teamplay wrecker, it is the worst, requires no skill or teamplay, you are a turd in my eyes if you use it.

I do understand your point of view, but because of one map and my experience with it, I have come to appreciate the air strike.

Islands - I'm on Nod, our air strip is down as well as our Hand of Nod. Ramjetters/snipers keep picking us off from that perch on the GDI side. I'd go Marksman, drag their health down slowly and they would go to refill. I would pause for a bit, allow them to come back and deploy an airstrike before they can get a beat on me and kill them.

Their ref was down, so losing that $1000 character hurts. The airstrike is the only way to get them there too, since the Marksman, even with two headshots, cannot kill a cautious Havok.

It was also super convenient when APC rushes occurred around our ref, only to have them blow up and the people who hopped out hoping to deploy ion cannon beacons die in the air strikes.

Without the air strikes, we would have lost. We won in terms of points.

[Unit]

Islands - I'm on Nod, our air strip is down as well as our Hand of Nod.

I found it hard to keep reading after this. *facepalms* so because you managed to epically suck you believe you should still have a chance to uberpwn the enemy with a skill-less move??

In Jelly the airstrike costs 2500, it should cost 5000 so nobody ever buys it apart from in the most extreme circumstances, not so you can merrily spam the strike at the enemy and watch it maul everything in sight whilst still having your whole base destroyed.

this is exactly what im talking about.

[R315r4z0r]

I completely, 100% disagree with what you just said.

It would be skill-less if they could win the game by spamming airstrikes. If you have just basic infantry and a lot of credits, you can now at least break out of your base and do more stuff besides getting farmed by the enemy. It's not an "I win" button unless the enemy is retarded.

One of the largest issues Renegade had with its game design is that there could be points in which the game would lull into a dull and boring chug of a game where the vast majority of things players could do were cut off or just unavailable. So all that was left was to just wait for the enemy to win... or quit and do something else.

People are playing the game to have fun... not to stand around their base and watch the grass grow. Airstrikes let the losing team at least have some leeway to play around in the field. Plus it also gives the attacking team something to do besides farm free infantry.

I don't know about you, but in classic Renegade, being on the winning team when the enemy had one building left was incredibly boring because the enemy could do nothing to stop you. So, people always opted to farm kills and it completely destroyed all essence of teamwork. With airstrikes, there is now a strong form of resistance from losing teams that makes it more exciting for attackers. I was on a match of lakeside the other day that would have been a snore-fest since the enemy just had their refinery left... but because they kept using airstrikes to fight back it was actually much more fun and exciting trying to destroy that building.

[highbuzz]

I found it hard to keep reading after this. *facepalms* so because you managed to epically suck you believe you should still have a chance to uberpwn the enemy with a skill-less move??

Yeah, when a team gets a building destroyed, they epicly suck. All the time. Couldn't be the other team did an effective rush, a guy was very sneaky, etc etc, no we had to suck. You have a funny view of things.

Skill-less move? I mean, come on.. What am I suppose to do then? Run around as a machine-gunner and just wait to get picked off constantly by ramjets? Just let them kill the last building even though we still had a sizeable point lead and time was clicking away? Hell no. Besides, the airstrikes do cost money - I didn't have an unlimited supply.

I used an item provided by the game to make due with what options and what odds we were against. R315r4z0r hit it on the head.

PS: Now I'd rather have the ability to collectively donate funds together and buy a building that has been destroyed or something like that, but since it's not an option - I think airstrikes provide a fair balance to a scenario like the one I painted.

[Valor]

Red Barn on field

This is very important to me.

[Unit]

words

words 2: attack of the clones

Yes if you lose your buildings you deserve nothing more than to be farmed continuously by the enemy, everything you point out is everything that is wrong with airstrikes.

if you believe it is impossible to win without airstrikes in this situation you obviously have never played renegade on marathon settings. often enough when a team is down to half or less of its base is when the most team play starts to occur naturally.

and yes if your base got wasted your team sucks especially nod on islands, both teams are balanced, if there is the same communication tanks and firepower on each map neither team would win, if your team is bad, isnt talking to each other, isnt building tanks, isnt taking the field or mining the base etc or just not paying attention, then you will lose. that is renegade. even stanislav5 knows that.

one side can only win because a team is simply worse than the other team.

anyway airstrikes are extremely dumb in renegade and thats not what this thread is about so, next arguement.

(the very idea of using airstrikes on single infantry units is just laughable.)

Red Barn on field

This is very important to me.

this guy knows whats up.