Airstrikes are absolute bullshit

[TotemAatz]

But we still lost that game And Nod didnt attack from the side entrances very often thats why you had an easy time with Airstrikes. But we will look into ways to make airstriking harder.

I had to split before the match ended, however being able to rack up 20 odd kills without leaving the safety. Of our base is insane, you rep, get creds, get air strike, paint target and enemy gone and this is even considering the map is very terrain heavy with not all that many choke spots.

[Valor]

Agreed.

O hope servers can disable airstrikes and so people can seek out servers with them completely disabled.

Would be good to limit them to maybe 1 every 5 min or something as well. I dunno.

I'd settle for once every minute, considering the game I last played had one every 5-10 seconds.

Perhaps make this dependent on player count.

[R315r4z0r]

I'd say no to a team lockout. That opens it up for grievers or just any nub not knowing what they are doing. Someone can buy it and waste it then screw their team out of one for however long the wait is.

There should be a personal lockout though so you can't spam them on your own.

But, to be completely honest, I haven't been having the same frustrations everyone else is complaining about. I'm chalking that up be that I've been playing the game for longer so I've grown accustomed to it. But not in a way that I've grown complacent to suddenly being bombed... but in that I'm never in a location where I am getting bombed. Since yesterday, I've played many matches and heard well over hundreds of airstrikes. I've died from 2.

Now I don't mean that as a bragging thing. My point is that you have to give it time and learn how to adapt to the game and eventually they won't seem nearly as bad as you first thought they were. It really isn't that hard to imagine where your enemy has a line of sight. If the enemy can see you, it's likely that airstrike is coming to you... so move.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Guest

[SFJake]

Agreed.

O hope servers can disable airstrikes and so people can seek out servers with them completely disabled.

Would be good to limit them to maybe 1 every 5 min or something as well. I dunno.

Splitting small communities is terrible. Realistically, it will probably just be enabled anyway in most pubs. An option to disable airstrike is at best a band-aid solution.

[Valor]

The way I see it, if a team has only their Ref left then they will win by points simply by spamming airstrikes. They can sacrifice many basic infantry as they provide very few points, and airstriking enemy vehicles and advanced infantry will net them a lot of points. And there's no way for the enemy to finish off the Ref since they can spam airstrikes on chokepoints which will destroy any tanks instantly.

True in the original Ren if you could hold off a spectacular defense you could win with just one building, but this just makes it way too easy.

[TigerXtrm]

Airstrikes are amazing at breaking an enemy camp just firing at building with no hope of destroying them (farming points, basically). The airstrike kills most infantry and engies supporting the camp, after which it should be easily mopped up by the defending team.

[xInVicTuSx]

I must also add that splitting a small community with too many server side options is a terrible idea, I have seen many mods and awesome games suffer over the years because of it; it is also very confusing for many players when the experience differs too widely from server to server.

My suggestion would be to keep whatever solution you come up with as in-universe as you can.

The chap that suggested SAM sites protecting bases had the best idea I think. You can also tie it to the communications center once that is complete. It would be well worth adding SAM sites to maps that don't have them for the sake of consistency. Air strikes molesting bases unimpeded feels very wrong, everywhere else it feels awesome.

For now I would at least bump the price up to 900 or so. Yes 700 can buy you a medium tank for that ... but THE WRATH OF GOD is preferable if placed right. Perhaps even have it equal to the beacon at 1000. While the beacon is more game changing if placed on a building, the airstrike is FAR easier to successfully use and its destructive equivalent on the open field.

But I would refrain from "nerfing it" beyond tweaking it for any unintended effects, there needs to be a last resort against heavy vehicle trains steamrolling toward your base.

[TheGroundsKeeper]

The very first time they ever talked of Airstrikes during the closed beta, i said it was a bad idea, and i still think it is a gamebreaker.

People spam them all the time and dying in the middle of your own base just gets old within a half a minute.

Hovever i think there is a reasonable fix for it.

Either make it a vote thing. 10 votes or somethiing for a sweep of a area. Everyone who votes yes looses x amount of credits, and uses a Airstrike point. (maybe like max 3 pr round total for each team).

Or...

Make it a Team effort. 3-5 players are needed to place the airstrike, they have to point the laser at the same location for a certain amount of time. And at the same time when deployed warn the other team of incomming airstrike. (big reticle on the ground or something.) After this those 3-4 players have used their airsrike ability for the rest of the match.

Point is that it has to be limited or hard to do if it have the cabability for one person to ruin a well earned siege from the other team. It must not be able to be used for point farming and should be a strictly stalemate breaker only!

[Ban4life]

I think the tactical considerations for the airstrike should come back. I would limit the airstrike to once every 10 minutes per person. It would improve communication between team members and prevent spamming. Like I already said and backed up by R315r4z0r, a no fly zone should be issued around beacon area's. Enough that the whole blast zone should not be affected by airstrikes. Eventually you have a true tactical weapon. It still can potentially be done 32 times per 10 minutes per team (or 5.33 airstrikes a minute per team!), which should be more than enough (and would still have a potential to spamming). I would also increase the price. It's potential to eradicate a whole bunch of tanks from range can have so much more potential than a beacon or one medium tank. Potentially breaking a siege is already worth much more than 700. It has more uses than that. I would easily go for 1000-1500.

Another solution would be the team method. There was an idea for squad based play. Give every squad leader the power to drop an airstrike. That or a teamwide vote to appoint a few airstrike ready people. Both not very good idea's though.

It is a cool weapon, but too easy to access. It's power should come from strategically placed at the right time, giving you that rush of satisfaction. Not just spammed a few times and eradicate the enemy with ease.

[Daedhart]

I ran into these a lot tonight. They definitely favor Nod since GDI has a bunch of large, slow moving tanks. Aside from breaking entrance camping, these are definitely a Nod specialty.

[sterps]

I love airstrikes, and i think they're a very good addition to the game and give it more atmosphere.

It's also more Tiberium Dawn like having the A-10 strikes...very nostalgic.

I'm yet to experience any spam in game that some people in this thread are suggesting, however if it is an issue, i think the best way to address it would be to add a cooldown timer and maybe limit it to maybe 3 airstrike beacon purchases at a time.

From what i see half the time, people's airstrikes hit nothing because enemies flee before it gets there.

[XD_ERROR_XD]

Another solution would be the team method. There was an idea for squad based play. Give every squad leader the power to drop an airstrike. That or a teamwide vote to appoint a few airstrike ready people. Both not very good idea's though.

no... i really wouldn't like that idea. but i would like the idea of a time limit to each bought airstrike.

[zenzorido]

ive you have sounds on you can either hear EVA or CABAL saying airstrike inbound you have aroun 5-6 seconds to react on them

[lazy5686]

Giving people more options divides the community? This is one power up.

I'm not asking for the ability to buy turrets or tanks any where, refill in the field with a command, change into extra characters like Kane, or grant people obelisk guns.

EDIT:

One of the (unintentionally) great things about Ren was how balanced all the maps were.

Erm...

[10] -Tiresias- Current win percentages for Jelly Marathon (Small games are less than 30 players, big games are 30 and above):

[10] -Tiresias- Canyon - Small: GDI: 55.75% Nod: 44.25% - Big: GDI: 53.26% Nod: 46.74% - Combined: GDI: 53.35% 04Nod: 46.65%

[10] -Tiresias- City - Small: GDI: 32.26% Nod: 67.74% - Big: GDI: 38.78% Nod: 61.22% - Combined: GDI: 38.44% Nod: 61.56%

[10] -Tiresias- City Flying - Small: GDI: 38% 04Nod: 62% - Big: GDI: 39.87% Nod: 60.13% - Combined: GDI: 39.82% Nod: 60.18%

[10] -Tiresias- Complex - Small: GDI: 50.34% 04Nod: 49.66% - Big: GDI: 42.88% Nod: 57.12% - Combined: GDI: 43.11% 04Nod: 56.89%

[10] -Tiresias- Field - Small: GDI: 27.66% 04Nod: 72.34% - Big: GDI: 31.6% Nod: 68.4% - Combined: GDI: 31.5% Nod: 68.5%

[10] -Tiresias- Glacier Flying - Small: GDI: 38.46% Nod: 61.54% - Big: GDI: 45.76% Nod: 54.24% - Combined: GDI: 45.54% Nod: 54.46%

[10] -Tiresias- Hourglass - Small: GDI: 33.33% Nod: 66.67% - Big: GDI: 32.89% Nod: 67.11% - Combined: GDI: 32.9% Nod: 67.1%

[10] -Tiresias- Islands - Small: GDI: 51.55% Nod: 48.45% - Big: GDI: 43.5% Nod: 56.5% - Combined: GDI: 43.72% Nod: 56.28%

[10] -Tiresias- Mesa - Small: GDI: 48.08% Nod: 51.92% - Big: GDI: 51.81% Nod: 48.19% - Combined: GDI: 51.7% Nod: 48.3%

[10] -Tiresias- Under - Small: GDI: 29.55% Nod: 70.45% - Big: GDI: 48.04% Nod: 51.96% - Combined: GDI: 47.57% Nod: 52.43%

[10] -Tiresias- Volcano - Small: GDI: 49.72% Nod: 50.28% - Big: GDI: 50.42% Nod: 49.58% - Combined: GDI: 50.39% Nod: 49.61%

[10] -Tiresias- Walls - Small: GDI: 54.17% Nod: 45.83% - Big: GDI: 50.12% Nod: 49.88% - Combined: GDI: 50.23% Nod: 49.77%

[10] -Tiresias- Walls Flying - Small: GDI: 53.85% Nod: 46.15% - Big: GDI: 53.22% Nod: 46.78% - Combined: GDI: 53.25% Nod: 46.75%

[CatDespotism]

It's also more Tiberium Dawn like having the A-10 strikes...very nostalgic.

Airstrikes work pretty well, and they are good at killing players camping around corners. If there should be a warning it should be the sound/sight. Besides changing positions should be rewarded.

[TotemAatz]

It's also more Tiberium Dawn like having the A-10 strikes...very nostalgic.

Airstrikes work pretty well, and they are good at killing players camping around corners. If there should be a warning it should be the sound/sight. Besides changing positions should be rewarded.

Camping? Please tell me how you camp in this game.

[SeriousSmiley]

One of the (unintentionally) great things about Ren was how balanced all the maps were.

Erm...

[10] -Tiresias- Current win percentages for Jelly Marathon (Small games are less than 30 players, big games are 30 and above):

Jelly Marathon: The definite test for overall Renegade balance. There's no way Field was that one-sided with a time limit. Letting the WF die and racking up points with Havocs definitely lead to more than 30% wins. In small games GDI definitely had the advantage. The only other clearly unbalanced map according to those numbers is Hourglass, which everyone agrees is a bad map. Even then I can see GDI winning a lot more with a time limit based on Havocs sniping artilleries and unsuccessful Flamer/Stank rushes.

[CatDespotism]

Camping? Please tell me how you camp in this game.

Easy, you sit around the same corner never changing positions. Having an airstrike on your head is your punishment for not thinking outside the box.

[TotemAatz]

One of the (unintentionally) great things about Ren was how balanced all the maps were.

Erm...

[10] -Tiresias- Current win percentages for Jelly Marathon (Small games are less than 30 players, big games are 30 and above):

Jelly Marathon: The definite test for overall Renegade balance. There's no way Field was that one-sided with a time limit. Letting the WF die and racking up points with Havocs definitely lead to more than 30% wins. In small games GDI definitely had the advantage. The only other clearly unbalanced map according to those numbers is Hourglass, which everyone agrees is a bad map. Even then I can see GDI winning a lot more with a time limit based on Havocs sniping artilleries and unsuccessful Flamer/Stank rushes.

These stats are from a server with no time limit and really pointwhoring don't work that well at all with the pointfix but even then Field, Hourglass and somewhat City is unbalanced.

[Evono]

It's also more Tiberium Dawn like having the A-10 strikes...very nostalgic.

Airstrikes work pretty well, and they are good at killing players camping around corners. If there should be a warning it should be the sound/sight. Besides changing positions should be rewarded.

Camping? Please tell me how you camp in this game.

Staying infront of the base and NEVER never EVER risk your tank and shoot 40 min the same 12 meter.

Like most people atm......

I miss the Old tactic times and apc rushes tank rushes engie rushes and such from old renegade

[TotemAatz]

Staying infront of the base and NEVER never EVER risk your tank and shoot 40 min the same 12 meter.

Like most people atm......

I miss the Old tactic times and apc rushes tank rushes engie rushes and such from old renegade

Camping? Please tell me how you camp in this game.

Easy, you sit around the same corner never changing positions. Having an airstrike on your head is your punishment for not thinking outside the box.

You what? You are talking about Turtling not Camping.

Renegade have always been a peek-a-boo game on most maps, you are not supposed to drive around in the open or stand still in the open, you move in and out of cover to avoid taking damage, this is not camping. I think you should go back to the old renegade and play on some servers, perf with unlimited time and tell me everyone rushes. Please. Also the airstike defeats its own purpose, you can just spam it and get unlimited kills because it will generate unlimited credits and got nothing to do about camping.

[Noodlesocks]

ive you have sounds on you can either hear EVA or CABAL saying airstrike inbound you have aroun 5-6 seconds to react on them

Seriously, this. Players can see the enemy laser targeting them for several seconds and they're even told that an enemy airstrike is on its way. As far as I'm concerned, its peoples own fault for not paying attention.

The only map I've even seen airstrikes used in abundance is field when one team is camped outside the enemy base, too afraid to actually move in.

[lazy5686]

Jelly Marathon: The definite test for overall Renegade balance. There's no way Field was that one-sided with a time limit. Letting the WF die and racking up points with Havocs definitely lead to more than 30% wins. In small games GDI definitely had the advantage. The only other clearly unbalanced map according to those numbers is Hourglass, which everyone agrees is a bad map. Even then I can see GDI winning a lot more with a time limit based on Havocs sniping artilleries and unsuccessful Flamer/Stank rushes.

These stats are from a server with no time limit and really pointwhoring don't work that well at all with the pointfix but even then Field, Hourglass and somewhat City is unbalanced.

On Field, with two teams of equal skill, Nod will likely win. Artillery simply have far superior firepower and all it takes is a few technicians to keep the bombardment alive and get thousands of points. If the weapons factory dies, then Nod can switch to flame tanks and stealth tanks backed up by artillery killing any repairing infantry in the advanced guard tower.

Hourglass is garbage.

I've seen far more games on City go to Nod than GDI in both marathon servers and AoW. It is almost always due to a stealth tank rush sneaking in.

EDIT: By no means does GDI have an advantage in smaller games of 16 or less. A single flame tank could easily pin down the entire enemy base while dealing large amounts of damage. At the same time it would take 2-3 medium tanks to do the same to Nod.

A single SBH can easily end smaller games where there are not enough people to check all the buildings quickly.

[SFJake]

ive you have sounds on you can either hear EVA or CABAL saying airstrike inbound you have aroun 5-6 seconds to react on them

Seriously, this. Players can see the enemy laser targeting them for several seconds and they're even told that an enemy airstrike is on its way. As far as I'm concerned, its peoples own fault for not paying attention.

The only map I've even seen airstrikes used in abundance is field when one team is camped outside the enemy base, too afraid to actually move in.

I've been airstriked as a Havoc on top of walls and I NEVER saw the laser. The warning is also very easily lost in all the voices.

It needs to be incredibly more obvious when you get airstriked, period. Its easy to get out at the last second as infantry, not as a vehicle.

I actually don't even play vehicles anymore, its so easy to just not see anything and oh look boom my vehicle's gone, **** you game.