Quinc3y
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Posts posted by Quinc3y
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Walls
Nod won the harvester battle and put a lot of pressure on GDI in the early game, dealing perma damage to ref with arty spam. But 10 minutes later GDI managed to recover and took control of the plateau for roughly the rest of the game. It took a long time to destroy the first building, but finally Nod refinery fell to orca rush with a chinook flying to PP as decoy. Nod answered with SBH outside c4 rush and almost finished GDI refinery off. Soon after Nod base crumbled to orcas & ions.
Complex
The best game of the evening. At the start GDI attempted a gunner rush for airstrip, got spotted early and annihilated. Nod's response of arties & light tanks left WF with only 10 health. After that the game looked even for a while. Both refineries fell within a minute of each other to a tech & hotty. Since then both teams tried different kinds of rushes. GDI went for a couple of med rushes and a rocket rush - they dealt some perma damage to both HoN and strip, but failed to destroy either. Meanwhile 3 stanks with the help of a decoy nuke destroyed the barracks and a couple minutes later stanks again - with the help of an infiltrating raveshaw - destroyed the WF.
XMountain
Nothing happens for the first ~10 minutes and then a sneaky hotwire destroys Nod ref, which allows GDI to finish the game with tanks soon enough. Nod's desperation light tank rush wasn't bad though.
Team Quincy/Tony - Team Kryp 3-0, ggs but maybe a little too much saltiness on the losing side.
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So it will be like that again, but only on recruit?
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I'm not gonna go into details, but all in all it looks cool. I like all the infantry nerfs, hopefully losing HoN/bar will not be game over now?
" + Reduced Remote C4 multiplier to the MCT from 5.0 to 4.1 " <-- will hotwires and techs still be able to destroy a building solo with this change? And, if yes, what will the margin be like? I'd hate if all their c4 dealt only exactly 200 damage to a building again... would have been a giant nerf to sneaking.
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Couldn't be there this time
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On Sunday I was suprised how fast team Jeff was. On Lakeside, you managed to get 5 arties on the hill faster than our 3 mrls - even though we both had first harvester dumps. Then, not even 1 minute after we pushed the arties back, we already had stanks in our base. Similar thing happened on Field - GDI rushed in with meds, we defended from that, I ordered stanks, we bought 3 stanks and tried moving out... and we already had 5 meds at our base entrance locking us in again.
Honestly though, I believe the only reason why my team lost Field and Under were the individual performances of poi and boi. On Field, those two had like 60 kills in between them - twice as much as my whole team combined I believe. Our tank repairs were constantly being sniped. I think my team had the better tankers, but the tankers could do nothing with no repairs. It was really frustrating. On Under we were outplayed so hard. I don't know how we were so dominated... maybe if the first 5 minutes went better and we didn't get locked in with arties because it's so hard to break the choke. But I did say meds and gunners from the very beginning. We just weren't good enough individually I believe.
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Well done
I really didn't know that there are actual meteors falling down on this map. Lesson learned!
Also, I think generally the more TS chatter the better. Would be nice to hear myself be happy for contrast after that stank rush worked a minute later
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Good stuff!
Whiteout
GDI counters early arties with gunners and soon starts spamming meds. While hotwire sneaks in PP and drags the attention of half Nod, meds focus fire and destroy HoN - and PP is not saved. Meds then roll in and finish Nod off.
Walls
Hotwire and engi destroy HoN early. Nod keeps apache rushing for the next 10 minutes, damaging ref to 30 health. Then Nod loses refinery and the last technician to another sneaky hotwire. Airstrip and PP are finished off with orcas and ions.
Complex
10 grenadiers rush in airstrip at the start, quite a few make it in, but somehow no perma damage done. After that, med rushes vs. stank rushes. The game finished when ~8 meds rushed in Nod base and 3 stanks + 1 tech rushed in GDI base. GDI base got destroyed when Airstrip, last Nod's building was down to 30 health and surrounded with meds. Seconds decided.
Team Tony 2-1 Team Gormomma, ggs.
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I got back home today, hopefully will be there for the weekend to come. Looks like I didn't lose much though.
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One does not simply quit Ren X.
Hope you change your mind, this game needs good players like you!
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4 hours ago, YagiHige said:
well, maybe Quinc3y planned it and didn't tell us
Yes I did. Infiltrating is so much easier when the enemy team is busy. Nevertheless, a good team will watch mines at all times and tbh team Ryz was all over Barracks quickly. The only reason why I managed to destroy that building was the fact that it was damaged to 30 health from that early APC rush, so they weren't able to repair it in time.
41 minutes ago, Lt.Hargrove said:About the loss of strip on Walls, it wasn't mined at all. At first I thought there were just mines at the door and not the inside door, but at a later inspection there were no mines in strip with the counter at 29/30.
Yeah, it's sad, but sometimes happens even on PUGs.
And thanks for the recap, Lava! Tomb also started with an APC rush by GDI. Which was a bad idea - the APCs bumped into several flame tanks and GDI had no credits to defend from the counter-attack.
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We used the old catwalk route. It's just that McFarlands are really strong. Other than that, Volcano is still Nod favoured.
GGs, we won most of our games thanks to our infiltrators (Tunnels, XMountain, Walls).
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I'm not an expert on english/german translations, but, as voltex said, you should totally start reading the Bible from the New Testament. It's a much more interesting read and the gospels are what defines christanity. And another tip: read slowly.
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I won't be there on Saturday, but on Sunday probably yes.
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2 hours ago, Gliven said:
Still waiting for the video of Quinc3y getting smited down by the Ren Gods
Me too
If you also have my reaction on TS/in-game included Lava, that would be even funnier.
1 hour ago, Madkill40 said:It didn't sound like there much interest in Quincey being the Commander on Sunday.
Sunday's need 12-man plans, which differ from the standard 20-man plans.
That Tomb game for instance, near the buildings or not them flames would have met the same amount of resistance. Found it amusing how despite having a STank on Mesa with Quincey he seemed to forget about not having me as an active defender, I stopped actively defending when I saw the Ref and Strip with 3 Tech's between them. My game conked out at Fort, but upon rejoining there wasn't much of a plan being formed from what I heard aside from "Just get meds..." I was surprised Fort didn't last longer.
61 hours of Fractured Space prior to RenX degrades my ability to shoot well it would seem, I used to be more effective at killing LCGs with an Officer in the past. [Or maybe the LCG requires a teeny bit more of a spread]
So let me defend myself, Madkill!
Tomb: Yep, I am partly responsible for the loss - I will try to explain. There were 2 key moments during our rush: first when I saw that enemy team is also rushing with flametroopers. At that point I had to make the decision if we should kill the enemy team or just rush their base and (probably) exchange buildings. I've decided for the latter for 3 reasons: 1) I thought we will be able to deal more damage as McFarlands than them as Flametroopers. 2) I knew that we had a few people left in our base and hoped they could do something 3) It's generally more fun/interesting to take small risks. The 2nd key moment was when we reached Nod base: I should have ordered my team to split immediately between HoN and Airstrip. Instead, we went for strip first and then to HoN, which gave the enemy team more time to save HoN. Yes, this was my mistake. But keep in mind that I had to make those decisions within split seconds.
Mesa: I didn't forget about the fact that you should be defending instead of stank rushing. In fact I've noticed you left your spot long time before that: https://youtu.be/pRFpX3qsAlc?t=816 . And yes - at that point I should have told you to get back to camping PP, to which you agreed in the very beginning. That was my mistake as well. I didn't do it, once again, for 3 reasons: 1) We needed more people in the field, because we had guys like Thommy exploring the cave as a raveshaw and because we were 11v12 at that point cuz of one guy that disconnected 2) I know camping is a shitty job. I saw you in field and thought you got fed up with it, so I asked the general question hoping someone would volunteer. But no one did. 3) We never lost mines during that whole game before we lost PP. So I thought we can get away with not having a camper and just watching mines. But yes, this doesn't justify me. Then again, it was you leaving your spot in the first place, so you're the one more responsible for our loss than me.
Fort: before we lost WF, the clear plan was to spam meds and it worked well. We had the advantage and almost killed ref. Then the solo nuke happened and I kinda got pissed (also because: we lost the previous map in a stupid way, I had the sound bug in the beginning of Fort because of which I lost a lot of credits and our WF was damaged to 20 health, because I got stuck at the entrance of Nod base while sneaking in and also because Jessica and KONO left early). So the plan was to sneak in and I encouraged you guys to try. Yes, this is usually a stupid plan. Then again, I was pissed, the game looked lost and tbh I wanted a new map.
Finally, I don't understand the first sentence of your post D: You mean like, I didn't feel for commanding? Or that you'd like a different commander? Sure, I'm not going to insist on being a commander - I do make mistakes as I showed above but tbh I don't think I'm that bad either. There are no other people wanting to command. As you can see, sometimes it's not easy - especially in 12v12. Most people don't want to try. And I do like commanding every now and then - especially if my team listens and the TS is not cluttered.
On a diferent note: I just watched parts of Thommy's videos and I've noticed the issues with me being priority speaker on TS. The problem is, I've recently started using push to talk (I was using voice activation before) and I still didn't master it. That is: sometimes I forget to push the button while talking (happens rarely to be fair) and sometimes I push the button even though I'm not talking or when I'm thinking what to say (and this happens quite often). As priority speaker, when I push the button to talk, I mute what other people have to say. I can hear this happen in Thommy's videos. I'm sorry for this. I will turn off priority speaker for the next 12v12 PUG if I command to prevent this. (if I command on a 20v20 I might still need it :P)
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I see your points, Jeff! But I'll stick to my opinions.
And about Canyon: @Boomer I think the veterancy system was what helped Nod most on that map.
It's always been relatively easy for Nod to control the field & destroy GDI harvester on Canyon, especially in the early game. But before veterancy, Nod couldn't get much from it. Sure, GDI was locked in base, but it was still very hard to destroy a building and the moment Nod stopped buying vehicles, GDI could do meds + ion at the end of strip and game over.
Right now (especially after veterancy gain rate was increased), it's enough to destroy a few GDI harvesters and maybe damage barracks' health and your whole team's veteran. This makes it very difficult for GDI to break the siege. And even if they somehow manage to, turning the game around and locking Nod in their base seems impossible.
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MVP
in Renegade X
Determining the Most Valuable Player of the game is impossible based only on game numbers (points, veterancy, kills, K/D, etc.).
Let me give some examples:
Scenario I. Under. After 30 minutes of stale mate, a technician sneaks in and destroys the GDI PP. After that, he switches to defending and repairing, while his teammates finish off GDI with tanks. That technician will not have the most points (because his teammates will have destroyed more buildings), nor most veterancy nor kills, but he will be the MVP, because he set up things for Nod and made it easy for his team.
Scenario II. Walls. The commander of Nod calls for an apache rush. He leads the rush and his apache is shot down first, but the rest of the team destroy 2 buildings and GDI crumbles. Once again, his teammates will have more "numbers" than him, but he is the MVP, because he had a good idea and organized the team.
Scenario III. Under. GDI has better tankers, but Nod better infiltrators. One guy on GDI sees that and decides to camp the PP tunnel exit. The game lasts one hour and in that time GDI has advantage in field, gains veterancy advantage and overpowers Nod with tanks, winning the game. Meanwhile, the guy camping PP on GDI kills a few technicians and denies an infantry rush. That person will barely have any points, only a few kills and no veterancy at all compared to his teammaters. But in my eyes, he will be the MVP, because he secured the win (and camping is a form of sacrificing yourself for the team as well).
Scenario IV. Lakeside. Barracks are destroyed early by a few flame troopers who happen to walk in an almost empty GDI base. After that, GDI decides to organize an orca rush. But, while orcas are grouping up by WF and are about to move out, an SBH sneaks in GDI base and spots the rush, warning his team and telling them which path they are coming. Nod is prepared and defends from the rush, winning the game soon after that. The SBH is the MVP, because he worked with the team and gave the key information.
Of course, sometimes points/kills/veterancy do reflect who the MVP is. A good sniper can be a real pain in the ass for the enemy team on some maps. A good tanker, denying enemy their harvester throughout the whole game, as well. But very often it's not that simple, as I showed above.
I guess a smart idea for choosing the MVP would be via voting. When the game ended, the players would be able to vote for an MVP and for the next map. I think the only reward should be some kind of points that you obtain, but not any kind of game advantage. This could work like recs. Or maybe the MVP's name could be somehow highlighted in the next game or whatever.
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Gobi
Debut for this map on the PUG... as bad as expected. GDI, having better tankers and snipers, overpowered Nod.
Arctic Stronghold
Rocket rush for Obelisk vs. Chem rush for ref & bar. Nod was prepared and repaired ob, while GDI ref was destroyed. Light tank rush followed and destroyed GDI base.
Volcano
Chem rush long route for WF vs. McFarland rush over the catwalk for ref & pp. Once again team Ruud was prepared while Nod lost both eco buildings. Game over.
Fort
Rocket rush for WF vs. APC rush for HoN. This time the early rush worked in favour of team Ryz and HoN was destroyed. Nod responded with light tanks, but got stopped. Ref and strip get destroyed soon after with tanks.
Complex
Artys and meds rushing over and over. During one of the med rushes an ion is planted by Nod ref and a nuke by GDI ref. Ion was disarmed while nuke succeeded with the help of stank cover and the fact that GDI was busy in the Nod base. GDI then got overwhelmed with arties.
Team Ruud 3-2 Team Ryz, good games.
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2 hours ago, CampinJeff said:
Field: The only way to infiltrate Nod PP is with Sydney or Gunner, while GDI PP can be infiltrated with a tech.
Isn't it the other way round? http://i.imgur.com/V8rVwU1.jpg
And I couldn't open GDI PP door without the AGT gun targetting me.
2 hours ago, CampinJeff said:Under:(...)
Yeah, some valid points. But getting out of GDI base when you have 2-3 arties bombarding the choke and a flame tank by the corner isn't easy. I do think Under is a GDI map, just not 90/10.
2 hours ago, Henk said:Even if we had the numbers you wouldn't get a good result. When I was fiddling with the leaderboards, the game had just recieved a big update, and all the leaderboard stats were reset. I didn't have map info but I could see how many times GDI won games vs how many timed Nod won.
I noticed Nod won a lot more matches and I tought they were made OP, but it turned out that certain very good players with win/loss ratios of higher than 5 were choosing to be on Nod for almost every game.
My point being: With such a small player base it's very difficult to get honest stats when some epicly good, game changing players have a favourite faction which they switch to most games.This is a good point as well.
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1 hour ago, j0g32 said:
In fact, I should ask what is the point of discussing the (im)balance of certain maps, when the goal is not altering the maps in any way to improve balance?
Just for fun. I like to analyse games and hear people's opinions. And who knows, maybe the mappers will look here and work on their maps.
1 hour ago, j0g32 said:I fully agree with you that accruing statistics is only a somewhat more objective measure of experience in that sense.
But you already made my point yourself: you don't agree with the numbers that @CampinJeff provided. Everyone derives the (im)balances of the teams/maps in question based on a different sample of matches, experiences, and gamemodes.
What I was trying to say is that, unless base your conclusion that "Map X is biased and favours team Y" on a common set of knowledge/data/experience, what is the implication in terms of re-balancing the teams/maps?
Yes, this is all subjective in this thread. The numbers are subjective and only used as a scale, this is why I don't agree with everything Jeff wrote. But, since he's a very experienced player, I think his judgement is close to the truth. The truth about maps' balance can only be known by looking at the % of games won by each faction etc., but since we have no access to it (or do we?), we can only speculate basing on our experience. I see nothing wrong with that.
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If you play a couple hundred games on each map (public and PUGs) and understand how the game works, you can make a lot of conclusions about the balance of each map. Yes, it is somewhat subjective, but I don't see the problem. The numbers reflect Jeff's feelings & experience.
My comments on Jeff's update:
Under: I would never call it a 90/10 GDI map. The choke point in front of GDI base is perfectly designed for artilleries to bombard it, especially from the spot near Nod pillbox. I've seen so many games with Nod dominating.
Field: Yes, barracks are exposed to inf rushes, but you can infiltrate Nod ref as opposed to GDI ref. Nod PP is also much easier infiltrated than GDI PP. Tbh I feel like the new Field is balanced.
Tomb: never a 70/30 GDI map. The harvester side (which is imo more important than silo side) is advantageous to Nod, because of the cover for artilleries. GDI harvester is much more exposed and can be bombarded from far away, while Nod tiberium field is (for some reason) placed on lower terrain and is partly covered from meds/mrls. Also, a thing that might seem minor, but can decide the game in favour of Nod: in the first seconds, 2 crates spawn really close to each other at harv side and it's very easy to grab them both as Nod if you spawn in HoN => early APC, often game over. Finally, this map is small (or, as you wrote in your post, cramped), which is another advantage for Nod. 60/40 for Nod if you ask me.
Lakeside: on PUGs you might be right with 65/35 in favour of Nod, but in public games I feel like it's a GDI map, because it's much easier to infiltrate Nod base than GDI and organizing an apache + SBH nuke rush on a public game is usually a miracle.
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"you let us die for fucking beer" - T_Bone to commander Ryz when he went for beer in between games
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I'd really like to encourage more people to do the commanding duty.
A lot of you are experienced & understand the game and know the players. Commanding doesn't take much more and it's fun, trust me.
Watch the PUGs on youtube to see how the commanders do it if you want to.
Don't hesitate to try yourself
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Yeah, everyone played well. Felt like all games (maybe except for Volcano) were close.
Did you record, Thommy?
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Couldn't make it tonight. Will the 10v10 PUG happen tomorrow?
Minor bug: get in the harvester
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