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I just think that a few certain individuals are taking it upon themselves to test things out and get the ball rolling before adequate discussion has taken place on the matter. I personally am okay with that as long as they aren't immediately applying the mutator to a public populated server. It seems as if that may be the case though (a public-half populated server most of the time I believe though, as it is first tested in the NA server). I just think that it's important that we take the public's opinion into consideration, and so something like changing the sniper should always first be discussed in-depth publicly first. If there is controversy, it needs to be addressed at the very least. I think that's where we are failing right now. I agree that we need to take our time with this and discuss it more thoroughly before taking action. I'm just one person in the group though, and it seems like yosh is doing much of mutator changes at this point, and bro is doing a bit too. Perhaps the 4 of us can make a PM group to discuss this matter further though, as we don't need it spiraling too much.

I'm not. It was never included in any private discussion. Anything being added to change the sniper is purely the work of individuals. The only exception was the slight increased damage to light armoured vehicles to compensate for the reduced damage for the rocket launcher, which was my proposal in the first place. Edit: Just found a private post regarding the matter. Didn't see it until now because I was away for a the better half of a week and just skimmed through most things. I don't see why it would be discussed in private before public though, considering this is a matter that has high controversy and was always going to. That wasn't my call though. Also not sure why a mutator changing it was added so early into the discussion and before most people could provide their input, but again, not my call. I'm not the one coding. Here's the only numbers that I could accurately find posted there for the 500 sniper change:

The primary reason they were OP in Renegade was because of wall hugging. No free-aim (though I still would like an edited free-aim, but understand that it won't be done at this point) is the main reason behind that. The people who use snipers very effectively are the same ones that would wreck you in a 1v1 with any other gun too, most likely. It's just they are the most efficient with the sniper. Sniper is a high-risk, high-reward option. High risk because it takes a lot of skill and you're screwed unless you have a lot of skill when you're in the open. Missing a shot is far more consequential than missing a shot with other guns. High reward because if you're skilled enough, you can kill an enemy whilst taking little to no damage. You have to pretty much remain in cover in Renegade X while sniping though, and there are several extra things that are designed to kill that specifically in the game. Grenades, airstrikes, sprint, etc. It's honestly significantly harder to snipe in Renegade X than Renegade is the point. However, I would be lying if I said that I feel like scoping is ideal right now. I really wish there was a "holding breath to remain steady while scoped" system in Renegade, like in many modern FPS's. People sitting there scoped waiting for you to round the corner and being able to kill easily like that are annoying, regardless of the twitch muscles and reactions in play. But that's just a little thing I suppose.

Sniping is all about timing

Are you able to connect to the server at all? Perhaps you can supply us with your username and a tmx or ekt mod can view some irc logs to see if you connected and then lost it or if it just didn't let you connect at all.

Are you trying to join on a populated server that isn't completely full?

Babies? It takes barely any skill to be an efficient sniper. Sit in the back and use your histcan insta-gib weapon to kill dudes that can only win by running away. I'm very happy with the changes in 4.02. The game was borderline unplayable before if the enemy team had a dozen snipers. How very naive of you. Sniping takes a lot of skill, and for you to not realize that is either ignorance or negligence, and I'm not entirely sure we want the game "balanced" towards either of those.

This. The game is more than just strategy and tactics. It's execution. Certain units can only excel in the hands of players capable enough to execute them properly. The sniper is the perfect example. A sniper in the wrong hands is a waste of a player and a waste of 500 or 1000 credits. If you claim it's OP, tell me how. Explain to me. Because you cannot use them effectively and others cannot neither? So now we are neglecting the skilled players for "balance" purposes? That's an awful excuse. I can understand a nerf to the 500 sniper to make him more relatively balanced to the ramjet. But anything more is way overkill and just going to hurt more than help. If you're trying to appeal to the people who claim "sniper ruins this game," tell them that they aren't playing the game right (sorry that running in straight lines in a shooter has its consequences?), rather than adjusting the game to simplify it for them. Snipers in Renegade were undoubtedly OP. Snipers in Renegade X are not. The only thing that COULD be adjusted that would make sense is to have the guns actually fire from the gun model rather than having it adjusted by the camera (head glitching and FOV advantages), but that can be said about all guns.

I was being sarcastic, hence the ":>" I'm someone who enjoys sniping and sees the role that they play in the game. I don't see an issue with them

They're not stronger in Renegade because of the damage. The damage is equal iirc. It's just the reload time and the higher inaccuracy that makes them less effective.

Slightly weaker stealth tanks aren't the reason. Medium tanks are almost exactly the same in Renegade, so that's not it neither. Mammoth tanks are a slight part of the reason. The real reason is the artillery. So many people lack the ability to accurately aim the turret against enemy vehicles that it becomes an almost one-trick-pony (bombarding buildings). Add in all of the elevation changes (and the fact that the turret doesn't hold position with the elevation changes ) and that gets multiplied exponentially. That's the real difference in Complex from Renegade to Renegade X. The map and the strategies are relatively the same. The actual skill it takes to win as Nod is greater. I don't see that as a bad thing considering that it had one of the highest win percentages in Renegade for Nod. It just takes a different approach as Nod. They need to roll out the heavy armored tanks like light tanks, flame tanks, and APC's, and then buy artillery once they've won field position. Too many people try to buy artillery when they don't yet have field control, and all it does is hurt the team. I think people will realize this in time and adapt, so there's really no reason to try to change it now. I see Nod win just as many as GDI when I play Complex, personally. Renegade Marathon Server statistics:

Keep snipers how they were but make hip-fire have a random spread like CoD, so that scoping is the only effective way of using one :>

Nod isn't an acronym. I think it's important that we keep in mind how effective the balance was in Renegade, and use that.

There's already 3 additional weapons in the game that just aren't used in multiplayer. Would be easy to code one of them in

I don't think they were too strong in Renegade? Especially since GDI tanks are generally a bit stronger in RenX comparitably.

Just move the reload time down to 1.5 like it was in Renegade and make the missiles have less of an arc upon shooting. Voila.

All it takes is an aggressive nod team to counter it. Get tanks hitting their buildings quickly, then flamers in their base and GDI won't even be able to get our of their own base. 75% is a huge exaggeration, as any good nod team knows how to win on that map quite easily. It's all about attacking early and taking the hill so that the other team isn't able to attack. Then, rush. It was the same way in Renegade. It was nicknamed "nodplex" in Renegade though, because people learned what had to be done to win.

It is labeled as "stand-alone," but the assets the game uses are taken directly from EA. They need EA's approval to even apply for a steam greenlight because of this.

You'd be suprised how hard it is to get good, 'explaining' screencap material. I'll take your scenario into consideration, but I'd need to stage it myself. Of course it's hard. That's why companies hire many people to do that. There's much more to it than just slapping four images together and calling it a promo. If you want to do it good, you have to put some effort. Also if you need people just ask. Have you ever taken a marketing class...?

That's usually a cheater's logic, but I'll just wrack that up under negligence haha. Some servers didn't care if you used it, and others would literally ban you if you did. It's unfair in that it was a clear advantage, but not everyone used it. Newcomers or people who didn't know about it, and the select few who couldn't install scripts 3.4 would be at a disadvantage. I used it in its testing periods, but then not after that myself. Sorry, but if it's a client-sided clear advantage that needs to be separately downloaded from the game itself, then it's a cheat. PA where I live is a state so I'm not sure what game you're referencing though neither. There's lots of people that just want to play the game, not scan forums pages or google certain tools to be able to use the same advantage that others have. Anyway, lets get back on topic now, shall we? You can PM me if you have a response to this. I don't want to derail this any further and I apologize for taking it this far.

I don't think there's any single game out there that I would answer "No" to this question in the title. All games can be improved by individual standards. At some point though, they all reach a "as good as it's going to get" stage and release the final product. That's the stage we're hoping to get to. Sure, there will always be new additions with mutators, maps, weapons, tanks, etc. being created with help from the SDK, but the game itself is at a very good state currently. There isn't a ton that I personally would change.

If those people are new to the game and are not coming back solely because of the passive credit system allowing 1 credit per 2 seconds for a dead refinery, then perhaps it would raise more concern. I do not believe that is the case at all though. It is done with strong guidance from the developers. There is a group on the forums labeled as "Community Developers." It is our job to to try and find out what the community wants most to be changed, and then discuss it in private between ourselves and the developers. Some of the mutator was made by a CD or 2, but the majority of it was made by a developer. It is just much simpler to make into a mutator at the current time, rather than putting it all into a patch. I individually do not code/model/animate. I am a balance enthusiast, and I have been this way since the original release of Renegade back in 2002. As a team, we have a list in private on the things that we discuss. The mutator consists of the majority of the solutions we have come up with so far to help remedy and try to balance the game to the best of our ability. As of right now, the mutator is the best list to use if you wish to see a task list (we do have an internal one as well, but it is kept private for now while we are discussing it. Perhaps we can release it once the discussions have finalized). There's also a topic you can find in this section that asked each person to rank their top most wanted balance changes in order. That was the starting point of what the community recognized as the biggest issues, and we used that to prioritize our internal discussions. For the record, I was also the one who came up with the numbers in how the current credit system works in the mutator right now. The only discussion that took place at all was indeed over the passive 1 credit/tick for a dead refinery, but in the end that option still won over 0 passive income for a dead refinery for one major reason. That reason was the fact that we looked to learn from the past. Renegade servers that had little passive income died off quickly, while servers with more passive income thrived. We did not want too much passive income (as it was in the previous beta release), but we did not want very little passive income neither. The 1 credit per 2 seconds was a compromise. It was previously 1 credit tick per 1 second, and we recognized that that wasn't at a good place. We have since increased active income and decreased passive income, so that players need to earn what they receive more. Here is the full list of credit changes from Beta 4 that were included into the mutator change: I encourage the discussion on this continue, but as of now it just doesn't seem like the demand is very high to continue this discussion. That's why I'd rather revisit it in a month or so after people have had an abundance of games on the system to use as reference, rather than just a loss or 2 that could be fresh in their minds. If we change things on a weekly basis with such small samples sizes, then we could easily be changing something that is the best option. We're all a team here on this (I and everyone else is doing this because they want the game to succeed. No one is making any money at all out of this, or has any ulterior motive).

I don't think there is a real reason nor strong demand to alter the passive credits again right now. Sure some people will argue against it after just a few games or a week of playing with it, but I think that the way it works now is fine, and we can revisit it in a month or so if there is a large group that does have an issue with it at that point.

In Renegade, "building bars" required a customs scripts.dll, which scripts 3.4 allowed, but 4.0+ does not. It was basically outlawed. Just clearing that up. It's advantageous to whoever doesn't have it, and since not every single person installed scripts 4.0+ (as it was not a patch), it was unfair to certain players. But RenX added it in by default, which is why it is different.

1. I don't think the interface is overwhelming. It's more than in stock Renegade, but it can just simply be ignored if you don't want to use them. It's highly useful though. You get used to it and learn to love it. 2. The PT is something I posted about a long time ago too and wish it was laid out differently. 3. The "q-spot" function does this, rather than just having the hitbox on the enemy. That way it's a teamwide function rather than individual. 4. Also something I have previously suggested as well (ions/nukes be stars as well). 5. That'd take a lot of extra coding and man hours that the game simply does not have right now. 6. Many people have also suggested this. It would be easiest to do with integration with steam, and I believe that was the original plan. I'm not even sure if the devs are still fighting/pushing for that anymore though. 7. I don't think random is a good idea, but upon killing an enemy it makes more sense. 8. Yeah, read #6 9. The developers are literally not allowed to make money on the game by any means. It's an agreement they have with EA. Alternative character skins are something that I suggested in private not long ago too though, and I feel like they'd be a nice addition.