RoundShades

Well, to be fair, TmX North America and Constructive Tyranny, but really CT can do whatever they feel like. It isn't like it's impossible to get a mutator from one server to use it on another. Literally just join the server and pull it from the cache and rename it, after finding it via date-modified. Last I checked, they also tried the server with disabled sniper classes. Which I am not sure if they enabled and launched, or what the status of it is yet. Haven't heard any feedback on it yet though. Also, Yosh, can nobody edit the mutator but you? You have been doing it up till now, but if you are away from internet for the week, you can address just about anyone to add values for you to existing things, almost anyone is capable of doing it. I could change the damage to 60 and headshot multiplier to 2.5 myself right now if you asked.

Just to be certain, are you in favor of old sniper, new sniper, or are you simply against the way the changes were made? Because to be fair, I HAVE been posting them here to show what is being tested. I have even made visible seperation as to what was changed so far and what was recently added. So far, only the sniper is this controversial, which was predicted and I could screenshot timestamp discussion where we discussed how controversial it would be. It was only tried anyway, because it was obvious that the 500 was a 900 class and the 1k class is a 1k class only because it adds marginal light/heavy armor damage and some remote c4. As discussion on here has shown, a lot of people hate snipers in general because they are the only class that 1 hit kills any other class despite cost, especially for the cost of 500 and at any range near or far. Ask for the shotgun shorter range, chaingun nerf, gunner rocket launcher adjustment, and rocket soldier nerf and slight lock on leniency tweak after the nerf, nobody even questions whether life was better before or after them. Clearly, it was better after the changes. I would personally like to say the same with the 500 sniper change, but it is debateable. Seems a lot of people do like to be given some sort of gradual damage before randomly dying. Sort of like "what if beacons didn't have a warning and just went off"?

I would feel real stupid if that were the case. But, here is what you suggested with the spread, which i have tried bulkier code just to try it, but this is the bare minimum of what I had tried originally. 0 compiler errors too. class STankMutator extends UTMutator; function bool CheckReplacement(Actor Other) { if (Other.IsA('Rx_Vehicle_StealthTank') && !Other.IsA('Rx_Vehicle_StealthTank_MOD')) { ReplaceWith(Other, "Rx_Vehicle_StealthTank_MOD"); } return true; } class Rx_Vehicle_StealthTank_MOD extends Rx_Vehicle_StealthTank; DefaultProperties { Seats(0)={(GunClass=class'Rx_Vehicle_StealthTank_Weapon_MOD', GunSocket=(TurretFireSocket01,TurretFireSocket02), TurretControls=(TurretPitch,TurretRotate), GunPivotPoints=(MainTurretYaw,MainTurretPitch), CameraTag=CamView3P, CameraBaseOffset=(Z=-10), CameraOffset=-400, SeatIconPos=(X=0.5,Y=0.33), MuzzleFlashLightClass=class'Rx_Light_Tank_MuzzleFlash' )} } class Rx_Vehicle_StealthTank_Weapon_MOD extends Rx_Vehicle_StealthTank_Weapon; DefaultProperties { ReloadTime(0) = 1.3 ReloadTime(1) = 1.3 VehicleClass=Class'RenX_Game.Rx_Vehicle_StealthTank' Spread(0)=0.00 Spread(1)=0.00 }

I already did all that, including the check replacement, and the spread. And... ...wait, did you say it is overridden with the patternistic spread? ...that would explain a lot. In that case, by UDK unit of measurement, I will try something a lot closer to the mammoth's missiles, which if I remember what I just read of it, is around .06 compared to the stanks' 0.30? I tried .20 and .15 but I am suspecting that is why it didn't appear to change anything. I will let you know if .06 or 0 changes anything, and if not I don't know what the deal is. It would be BADASS though if it did kind of swirl-arc though each other though, as far as "that is kinda what it did in Ren". But I am not sure how to change or tweak their overriden behavior. I tried changing spread, start speed, acceleration, honing strength, and I don't know the file location that dictates that wide spread. EDIT: The mammoth's missiles are .15 but they don't have a pattern so I will still try .06 EDIT: Didn't work, not even 0 spread worked. I may also try the goofy idea of having the STank inhereit a variant of the MRLS Missile weapon/projectile. EDIT: That didn't even work. I look at this damn stank fire, and it fires left, then right, if you only fire left and reload, it still fires right next, it's pattern is like etched into the tank itself somehow. I can release what I currently have, but it would do little more than allow changes to damage and fire rate, which can't be too dramatic or else the damage would be way too high for what it does hit.

I am only curious if you are more willing to live with them since 500s no longer 1 hit kill headshot, and ramjets no longer 1 hit kill bodyshots. Has life not been easier? Even I think it has tbh. Looking back, the effective value of those units were 1k and 1500 in Renegade, compared to their peers anyway. Especially dat fire rate...

Well, I was honestly going to assume, if one cannot replace which weapon a vehicle has mounted on spawn (which I am still convinced is possible in UT but maybe not with how Rx mounts the weapon to the seat), that I would have to break down and make a vehicle swap instead and mount mod weapon to mod vehicle. But I appreciate your help laying it all out like that. I have less experience with actor replace, I was going to do something similar but not as clean as that. Lord have mercy on my soul with all this junk... ...Also, I am bad with operators in this code compared to Json. I looked them up, but when you present this to me, it makes more sense than what I'd try to do myself. Like goddamn redstone logic up in here, xept with words... I am testing it now, but in case you happen to read as I do it, could it use a return value at the end or is that implied? EDIT: I think it in fact need return true; added. I am testing now with that. And it works. Well, my actual implementation is now faulty, the following was my weapon, and it still fires out 2 barrels so I have to see why or if I can merely straighten the shot. // gun config FireTriggerTags(0) = "TurretFireRight" FireTriggerTags(1) = "TurretFireRight" AltFireTriggerTags(0) = "TurretFireLeft" AltFireTriggerTags(1) = "TurretFireLeft" VehicleClass=Class'RenX_Game.Rx_Vehicle_StealthTank_MOD' EDIT: Since this apparently has no effect, nor can I see why when comparing to Mammoth Tank, I am going to humor the idea of adjusting the sockets in socket manager and trying to port those into the game with a mutator. SO NOW, I have a modified StealthTank mesh .upk, but I can't seem to get the mutator StealthTank_Mod to find and read the StealthTankMod.upk so is there a way to do that or can mutators not touch that?

class STankMutator extends UTMutator; function bool CheckReplacement(Actor Other) { if (Other.IsA('Rx_Vehicle_StealthTank')) { Rx_Vehicle_StealthTank(Other).Seats(0)=(GunClass=class'Rx_Vehicle_StealthTank_Weapon'); } } And I get similar errors. First, that the perenthesis on line has no effect. Second, when I change Seats(0) to Seats, I get bad expression after = again. I don't think the compiler likes changing a default in a default. But how would I go about doing that? Simplifying a shortcut for "GunClass"? Would I do that like Local Rx_Vehicle_StealthTank.Seats(0) Maybe with a series of periods instead of equal signs. So code: class STankMutator extends UTMutator; function bool CheckReplacement(Actor Other) { if (Other.IsA('Rx_Vehicle_StealthTank')) { Rx_Vehicle_StealthTank(Other).Seats.GunClass=class'Rx_Vehicle_StealthTank_Weapon'; } } And now, error: STankMod\Classes\STankMutator.uc(7) : Error, Invalid property or function call on a dynamic array Is there a better way to call for a vehicle's weapon when it is embedded into a seat position?

Always looking for more of these

I have made a STank mutator, that locks "fire muzzle" to fire both missiles from front if using primary fire and both missiles from top if firing secondary fire or any combo of the two in any order. Basically, primary delivers front missile, secondary delivers up missile, and both consume the same missile ammo. For good measure, I also dropped fire rate to 1.3 (it is 1.7 but set to 1.5 so I am assuming .2 is due to the delay between missiles) I did it with PreBeginPlay event in STankMutator, and changing STank Seat(0)=GunClass(Stank_Weapon_Custom). Everything else I copy-pasted. However, it errors. Might be real stupid. But I can't seem to figure out what I typed wrong. EDIT: I am no longer getting the same error. It was not my code, but my technique: I didn't put my files into my mod folder and tried compiling them within the RX_Game folder. EDIT2: I also didn't re-edit the UDKDefaultEngine.ini to look for my mod folder to compile it. So that was the second error. But now we are back to the first error, which is still copy-pasted in code below... The error and the code follows: \STankMutator.uc(9) : Error, Bad or missing expression for token: Rx_Vehicle_StealthTank, in '=' class STankMutator extends UTMutator; event PreBeginPlay() { local Rx_Vehicle_StealthTank STank; super.PreBeginPlay(); STank = Rx_Vehicle_StealthTank(GetDefaultObject(Class'Rx_Vehicle_StealthTank')); STank.Seats(0)={GunClass=class'Rx_Vehicle_StealthTank_Weapon_MOD', GunSocket=(TurretFireSocket01,TurretFireSocket02), TurretControls=(TurretPitch,TurretRotate), GunPivotPoints=(MainTurretYaw,MainTurretPitch), CameraTag=CamView3P, CameraBaseOffset=(Z=-10), CameraOffset=-400, SeatIconPos=(X=0.5,Y=0.33), MuzzleFlashLightClass=class'Rx_Light_Tank_MuzzleFlash' } }

Sadly, someone came in here screaming blindly, about a change we didn't make, a "not-change" if you will, about something in vanilla that... I guess they just noticed? (Artillery does 4.4% to structures) Really, it is just keeping in the loop about what servers are doing to test balance prior to 4.03. You can discuss it, and I can make honest mistakes about half the details in translation between text and game, but that's why we are here. It is outstanding how much support Snipers have on both sides. Some people want them completely removed, some people want them legacy 100/200 damage. I can't see doing either of those, but in this case I could almost accept "if both sides are unhappy, then we have reached an agreement". ONLY because both sides are unhappy but both are still entirely more willing to play than they were before, the antisnipers not wanting to avoid the game for instant deaths, and the snipers having more than enough skill to collect kills still.

It wasn't your words. It was from my post. And yes, I did not mention mag size or rof increase, but I will add it, and I thought it was implied-ish(?). I did mention chain bodyshots earlier. I don't know why they are quoting you. And, I don't know why they aren't playing the darn patch themselves which it would be fairly obvious when they look down at their clipsize and see 7. All it shows, is that SOMEONE didn't give the changes a try *rolls eyes* Had to change 75 dmg -> 60 dmg anyway.

It's funny how either made sense though. But good job in looking at AI coding bro!

I am not one. But from what I seen they can. Including since they nerfed it to 75 when I suggested 80, then down further to 60 because it is too easy to chain bodyshots for kills instead of headshot. Then again, I feel anything above 50 and especially with 150 headshots, would be effective at countersniping and trying to cover the silo and thin engis and stuff. Now tunnels, it is getting iffy unless you are good, but its a 500 sniper, neither of those things should allow it to accel at tunnels all things considered. I am also not terrific but can still effectively use it at what it was meant for. Not tunnels, but again, shouldn't. I can kill engis and other snipers with it, although other snipers just retreat more often, but following up with bodyshot chains after a headshot is fairly effective AND the enemy at least gets a warning to start freaking out instead of "Died = Sadface/Rage"...

Okay, plan when i get home, is to make a mutator, that subs the stank weapon with a modified one: -->>EDIT: Code-wise, it requires creating 1 less file to just edit ROF instead of damage. So Balance wise, the Reload is 1.5 and I think 1.7 comes from the delay between 2 missiles. So I lowered it to 1.3. -->>Function wise, i am going to try something i just came up with. It has 2 muzzles for missiles. Mcfarland has 2 fire types attached to 1 ammo. Well, i will try to attach its 2 missiles to primary fire only front barrel and secondary fire from top. That should improve accuracy, not hamper aa ability, and may be complex to figure out but meh.

Eh, the 500 change was because the 500 kills in same number of shots as 1000 sniper: 1. The ramjet however, was nerfed because they kill free infantry full health from toe shots. Really, both were overused in original ren near exclusively as the only viable anti infantry. And besides not wanting two identical snipers, its way too lethal for 500 credits. Credits arent as abundant as once before, liminting lethality to an unsustainably high cost, and making 500 decent against them (double headshot lethality at least), then you balance Snipers down with the mortal classes of Autofire rifle classes. Oh, and i think that is a good alternative to removing them like some want. But if servers want to try it, that's their perogative.

Did you try the "ultralow settings" configuration I suggested in another thread? We would love to see you ingame. It looks like minecraft, but it works. Link Here

Oh turning their price up to 100000. Didn't think of that, clever. Good idea Yosh!

...You really weren't around for beta3 were you. This was another one of those loud beta3 arguements. It is less arcadey, but I COULD see there being a difference in "scoped" damage tbh. Like if 500 snipers did 50 damage hip 60 scoped, and 1k snipers doing 100 damage hip and 150 scoped. Even then, they have to do vehicle damage equal and I don't see the need in a usage nerf anyway. 1k is a lot to pay for "lethal snipers" so the nerf is already substancial enough, i'd leave it be. I played some games recently that do convince me 500 is too cheap for near-equally the most effective class in the game, and that 1k is a lot of cash to pay constantly in the new improved RenX pre-4.03. Between those 2, "economy" balances the sniper enough. In comparison, sometimes I wonder if pic/rail should be 800 and volt should be 900...

I don't know. How long, would you say, until RenX statistics deserve their own usage to dictate RenX tweaking? I don't see Complex, as short a map as it is to get GDI Tanks through, and as many openings GDI Tanks can get through, ever coming up strong in statistics for Nod Wins in Complex. RenX statistics after a few months remaining appauling and every time the map played begin a 15 minute situation, I would recommit the fact that "maybe letting GDI having more than 5 tanks in midfield be able to flash-kill any newly spawned vehicles Nod purchases" is possibly a bad thing to allow. I still say, balance aside, that even if GDI is allowed to shell structures from midfield, someone spending credits on a vehicle should have a situation their vehicle can't be destroyed before the graphics of it even load into the engine. Even if that meant spawn-invincibility for 3 seconds, which isn't very fun neither but would prevent something else that "isn't very fun".

I am making City from scratch. Glacier is harder, but you can use overhead maps for it, to lay it out step by step a la Kenz' videos. Everyone originally requested Glacier, but then people talked about sky vehicle murderer and honestly I don't see the big deal. That was all so last Ren, we can't keep talking about "weather anomoly" and "sky vehicle murderer" for the NEXT 10 years... That all was just past drama, not actual work related opinions.

Complex did have stronger stanks, weaker gdi meds and mammies, and sbh nuking at least felt easier to me (fights took longer, tieing up a hotwire using a handgun was much easier than even killing a hotwire using tiberium flichette or carbine) And even then, it's balance aside from the gameplay, "buying a vehicle and it dying upon drop" feels incredibly unfair.. it is incredibly unpolished feeling. Like if you as infantry spawned outside of structures when you died, just to spawn into tank shells and died again. It was bad on XMountain and they changed airstrip direction. It would even be bad if it happened to GDI on same map, which it doesn't...

I distinctly remember someone mentioning that the Stank was stronger in Renegade? Then why wouldn't we bring damage up to at least 56 ish? Otherwise, if it is just a solo man stealth apc or a enemy-squisher, just make it 750. I think it is close already though, a damage tweak should take care of it. And with Gunner buffs, and Patch... well he is still Patch, but I doubt Nod Vehicles will be too strong.

What good would that be since I don't have a server running? lol Petition TMX/EKT, or start your own like Constructive Tyranny? I don't see anyone using it or it getting big, because this is RenX. You say snipers don't belong in RenX, but others say RenX cannot lack snipers. Otherwise, we are just playing X, since we got rid of a 40% class choice from Ren. A nerf to match the lack of huge lethality that automatic rifle classes have, is important, that was why Ren was so sniper-engi only. However, because repairmen hiding behind tanks are still the central meta, snipers cannot simply not exist. Nod can get close to engineers with sbh which people also want to get rid of. But GDI cannot, one cannot simply walk up to a group of tanks and try to shoot the engineers, decimated by tankshells before you even get in range of an engineer... I wouldn't mind seeing decreased lethality of the 1k sniper as well. 500 has 2x headshot multiplier (Yosh said he is making 2.5x if lowering body damage to 60), so should Ramjet have less headshot damage so higher infantry can survive? Or can headshots in general get a smaller hitbox so it doesn't feel like everything is a headshot? Perhaps the devs can set it to "bone collision-check" if they don't already?

I'd give my left nut for a server that has the 500/1000 credits sniper classes deactivated. Make a mutator. They are honestly not that hard. I don't think you can prevent the UI for them, but you can make then not take credits and not give the class. But think about it. How many servers had snipers disabled in old Ren? Plenty had 800 cost sbh. Plenty disabled a lot of things. Some servers were Sniper Only. I can't name one that increased cost or removed snipers. Despite how OP they were and how UP everything else ingame was.

I totally want repair havoc to be a thing. #repairsidearm