Xeon Wraith

Reserved in case this list somehow expands in scope. Again.

Xeon's Tanking Skill List Inspired by Mint’s tier list, the subsequent rankings and disputes following it, I’ve decided to make a (near) comprehensive list of the aspects of tanking of I consider to be of value. Does this indicate if you’re a good tanker or not? I dunno. But it’s here and its broken down into individual aspects so players can discuss the elements involved in tanking instead of arguing about just some combinations of letters. Each rank description is intended to be inclusive, so that a rank 2 would include the capabilities of rank 1. Ranks are not discrete and so a rank of 2.5 would indicate capabilities of rank 2 with some but not all of rank 3. Xeon’s Estimated Ranking (XER) is my personal judgement on the importance of a skill. Multiply each XER with their rankings to get a total estimated ranking. If there’s some aspect that you think I’ve neglected or missed, please let me know! TL;DR: READ THE BOLD STUFF. Tanking Focus: - % of time spent tanking Vehicle Handling - The ability to manoeuvre a vehicle effectively. [XER:TBA] Vehicle Knowledge – The ability to leverage combat aspects of a vehicle effectively. [XER:TBA] Vehicle Choice – The decision-making process behind selecting a vehicle. [XER:TBA] Use of Infantry – The ability to use infantry during tanking. [XER:TBA] Dodging Skills – The ability to avoid fire without cover. [XER:TBA] Exploitation of cover – The ability to avoid fire by reducing hitboxes. [XER:TBA] Field knowledge – Understanding of game-flow and field control. [XER:TBA] Aim – The ability to click where enemies are and not where enemies aren’t. [XER:TBA] Decision making – The ability to make well-reasoned decisions for the short-term. [XER:TBA] Awareness – The ability to keep track of the status of allies and enemies. [XER:TBA] Xeon's Estimated Rankings TBA. I'll add this in after a few days. Don't want to split up discussion too much. A weighted list to indicate which skills I consider to be most valuable. Should be possible to add everything up for a rough overall ranking. Player Grading: TBD. Not sure how to go about getting footage for a fair and traceable evaluation. Possibly demo files? Might miss a lot still. Not if I want to spend the time doing this at the moment - give me a shout if it'll seem interesting or helpful. Other specific skills and details that I can’t figure where to place: Microphone discipline and concise communications. Constant Q-spotting to track enemy positions on map. Using rocks or terrain to increase vertical cannon angles to combat flying vehicles. Using maximum projectile range to mid-air splash enemy targets. Aiming at specific parts of a vehicle or building to maximum splash damage on other enemies. Aiming at infantry head-level for “accidental” headshots. Using mini-map or overview map to fire at enemies that are not directly visible. Ensuring the health of your vehicle is always higher than damage of a single volley from nearby enemies to prevent getting instagibbed. Use of third person to gain visuals of enemies behind cover. Switching to passenger seat to stop engine noise when sneaking. Playstyles: Point defence, Anti-tank duellist, Supporting Anti-Air/Infantry. Current list concerns: EVERYTHING IN THE ABOVE LIST AARGH Some of the rank 4/5 Vehicle Handling examples are probably more niche than actually advanced, like Humvee/buggy specific techniques. Still, they certainly aren’t common or simple enough to belong in rank 2. Vehicle Knowledge probably doesn’t value the depth of knowledge well enough. There’s a ton of detail that’s been omitted in this category that is definitely worth merit. Flipside of that is that some vehicles really are quite straightforward (I’m looking at you, Meds). Decision making is a super vague, super subjective and kind of a bad category compared to the others. Still, it does serve as a useful category for catching the silly mistakes and bad habits experienced tankers may have. There's almost certainly going to be some players that exhibit parts of the later ranks but fail to cover everything of the much earlier rankings. Dunno how to proceed with judging this. Some probably a lot of the skill descriptions here won't make much sense to other players. If it gets enough interest or confusion, I'll probably do another separate writeup - much like the one currently in my signature. Let me know!

Oh sweet, we have three now? Guess I can retire and let the other two do it. Tanking skill list still WIP.

I heavily disagree with this mentality. Its vital to be transparent in how you're evaluating players if you want to make a fair assessment - even more so if you're making a public facing tier system. You can take the disputes already on this thread as a example of why breakdowns are necessary. Back in school, do you remember the times you got a bad grade for something and never really got told why? Yeah. That sucked. More generally, having these wide overlapping categories simply isn't useful when you're picking teams. If I'm missing out on offensive infantry players, picking BlazingYoshi and expecting him to counter snipe Boxes simply doesn't make a great deal of sense. Talk is cheap though. I'll see if I can throw up an example list of skills I consider to be relevant for tanking over the next week or so.

There's quite a few questionable choice in the rankings - I have many on the tanking front at the very least. I do kinda like the idea of categorising players based on their skills but I don't think a straight linear ranking is sufficient. You'd really need full breakdown on what players excel and lack at, including things that don't directly relate to any particular field. For instance, I tend to value players who keep a active watch on the entire map and reinforce sparely populated areas when needed. This is particularly useful for scouting for rushes and is not really part of any defined role. Comm discipline is another example. Being more transparent on what you're being evaluated on also helps. ...Of course, being able to actually evaluate everything is a pretty massive undertaking (and also probably impossible without player footage).

I mean, it's still technically correct... I've edited it, thanks.

22/12 NOD PUG PART FIIIIIIIIIIIIVE Player list from from Minji's stream: Missed out on last week's write up. Been building a new PC and overclocking it. Linky here if you're interested. 29/12 Last PUG of 2018 - The Battle of the Yoshi's @BlazingYoshi (3) vs @yosh56 (2) Match 1: Flakeside (Winner: Yosh56 - GDI) Both harvesters survive. GDI rolls mass Meds against Nod's mass Arties. The arties gradually get pushed back, being unable to finish off low HP Meds. With assistance of a flanking Humvee, Nod's field repairs dies off with the Arties. Arty restock holds GDI back and manages to push them back to centre hill. GDI manages to get vital kills on Nod's field repairs, allowing GDI to breakthrough Nod's tankline. GDI pushes up and pressure Ref, but fails to armour break. GDI does manage to sneak a Humvee to Airstrip during the chaos and kills it with infiltration. With no economy, no tanks and no infantry control, Nod's base explodes with minor resistance. Match 2: Islands (Winner: Yosh56 - Nod) Standard fare Arty roll by Nod. GDI pushes a few gunners and MRLS to hold Nod back while waiting for Meds. The Gunners and MRLS are unable hold Nod back and Nod starts shelling Ref. In the meantime Nod players start walking inside the Barracks uncontested. The Barracks takes a armour break. GDI tries to push out with Meds but gets shutdown. GDI shells WF and Ref and gets a armour break on the latter. GDI manages to break the siege with Meds and Mammies with a defensive buff but Nod counter rushes with Mendozas. Once again, GDI has no presence in within the infantry tunnels and gets the Barracks undetected. The Barracks dies. GDI pressures Nod's buildings with their tanks but lacks the numbers to kill. The tanks get cleaned up and Nod locks GDI back in base. Nod shells the Ref down. GDI tries a last ditch rocket rush but get intercepted and killed off. GDI surrenders. > Rebalance: @I am an Owl/ @Snips -> BlazingYoshi @HuskerDoggo -> Yosh56 Match 3: Volcano (Winner: BlazingYoshi - Nod) Nod loses their harvester, GDI saves theirs. GDI rolls Meds and Nod with Arties. GDI tries to pressure from outer route, Nod pressures from Tiberium cave in response. GDI grabs a armour break on HoN and diverts forces to clear out the Tiberium cave. Nod wipes the tanks on outer route and hammers the WF and Ref with Arties. The outer route Arties get cleaned up before armour break but Arties in the cave pressure PP and Bar, achieving heavy perma damage on Barracks. GDI manages to breakthrough the cave tanks and pressures Nod's PP. A Hotwire manages to sneak into the HoN but gets detected from their offensive mining. HoN gets saved albeit with heavy perma damage. Nod remaxes tanks and pushes both sides again, killing the Bar and PP. WF and Ref die shortly after. Match 4: Walls (Winner: BlazingYoshi - GDI) Both teams gets their harvester. Nod tries a Buggy surf. I get a Deadeye from a crate. The surf gets called out and I kill off SIXTY-SIX PERCENT oh yeah that's right of the players trying to surf. It gets shutdown and GDI reinforces plateau control with a early chinook dropoff. The RenX gods are pleased with my performance and decided to provide me with a Sakura spy. GDI also manages to kill off a SAM site. GDI starts pushing Meds to farm harvester and Gunners to plateau to pressure their buildings. GDI sneaks a Hotwire to Nod's PP, dealing heavy perma but no kill. GDI continually pressure Nod for a while and eventually decides to Orca rush. Nod tries to SBH rush but GDI strikes shortly after they leave. The rush kills the HoN and PP. GDI also got a spot on the enemy commander buying a SBH and has base defenders scanning for SBH. GDI throws a second wave of Orcas at Nod's base killing the Airstrip and Ref before the remaining SBHs can kill off the WF. >Rebalance: Sgt.Snips -> Yosh56 Match 5: Storm (Winner: BlazingYoshi - Nod) GDI all-ins on Nod's Harvester and grabs a kill on their turrent. Nod does the same, getting a kill on GDI's GT. Nod's harvester survives. GDI's harvester dies but only after receiving their income. GDI pushes Meds and Nod pushes Arties and Flamers in response. The Arties shell GDI's base from a distance, while the Flamers hold GDI's tanks back. GDI manages to kill the Flamers but a second wave of tanks locks GDI back in. A offensive buff on Nod's Arties bursts down GDI's Ref. Nod continues to roll Flame tanks into GDI's base, gradually killing off GDI's expensive units. GDI eventually crumbles. Player list from Minji's stream: Happy new year to everyone - except for @yosh56 who is obviously a cheap impostor of the actual Yoshi, @BlazingYoshi.

OVERCLOCKING: Done some a bit of light reading about this but didn't plan anything. Kinda went semi-randomly, using whatever I know and learn as I go. Started with a quick stock benchmark (minus setting RAM to advertised values) to check performance is as expected. Didn't really bother to stress test stock. CPU OC'ing: Primarily using ASUS's Performance Enhancer to mess with the auto OC. This basically increases clock speed and voltage to suit demand, rather than a fixed amount like manual OCs. The maximum clock speed is typically referred to as boost clock, which has separate all-core and single-core max speeds. The auto OC does automatically get disabled once it detects a manual OC though. Also marginally OC'ed the base clock (BCLK OC). This provides another method of overclocking, which is particularly useful adding some additional speed to auto overclocks without triggering manual OC settings. It also effects the entire chipset such as RAM and SATA speeds however. Potentially risky. Stress testing of CPU done with Prime95's small FFTs and use of Cinebench for benchmarking. PE level 2 (AMD's highest advised auto OC). Cinebench: All-core: 1351 @ 3940MHz, single-core: 170 @ 4140MHz. Prime95 forces temperatures of around 62C, no stability issues. PE level 3 (Higher OC setting provided by ASUS/The Stilt) CineBench: All-core: 1428 @ 4190MHz, single-core: 175 @ 4240MHz. Prime95 quickly causes temperatures to rise to 75C, slowly climbs to 80C and crashes the PC. Notably applies 1.47V (wtf) on all CPU cores. Not 100% stable. PE level 3 w/ -0.1V offset Trying to decrease temperatures. This offset value instantly crashes on Prime95. Seems to be due to undervolt. PE level 3 w/ -0.05V offset Temperatures still jump to low 70s quickly, but climbs much slower than without offset. Prime95 still crashes at around 77C. Dunno if its temperatures or undervolt or both causing it. PE level 2 w/ BCLK 101 Cinebench: All-core: 1368 @ 4040MHz, single-core: 173 @ 4190MHz. Prime95 holds temperatures steady at around 66C. No issues. Highest BCLK OC I could get without disabling auto OCs. Also tried to provide a negative offset voltage to this as well, which rather bizarrely caused all cores to clock at 4190MHz when idle. I dunno. Decided to go with the PE2 w/ 101 BCLK. I suspect its possible to hit a some ~4150MHz manual OC with temperatures around 70C, but this would probably have a minimal impact on gaming so I'm not gonna spend more time pushing it. I might decide to roll with the PE3 w/-0.5V offset later though. The instability of Prime95 on PE3 probably isn't a huge deal considering pretty much no application I use will stress the CPU that hard. Perhaps something to revisit when Zen2 CPUs get released. RAM OC'ing Mostly a case of trying different frequencies and timings then stress testing for several hours. Stress tests done with Memtest64 primarily with some usage of Aida64, Prime64's Blend tests as well. Later switched to Karhu Software's RAM test for faster and better coverage. Everything here is done with a base clock of 101, so RAM frequencies here are 1% higher than standard frequencies. The frequencies and timings I'm trying is based on their true latency - a decrease in frequency can result in a increase in performance if timings go down. 3501MHz CL16-16-16-32 stable. 3501MHz CL14-14-14-28 fails to boot. 3636MHz CL16-16-16-32 fails to boot. 3501MHz CL15(16)-15-15-30 stable, but CAS latency doesn't change to 16 for some reason. 3232MHZ CL14-14-14-28 boots, but displays error during stress testing. Also locked in voltages at 1.1375V VDDSOC and 1.41 DRAM. Both seem to be within safe limits from what I've read. 3232MHz CL14-15-15-30 stable. 3299MHz CL14-15-15-30 stable. 3366MHz CL14-15-15-30 stable. 3434MHz CL14-15-15-30 stable. Starting to seem a bit too good to be true, so I switched to RAM test here. 3501MHz CL14-15-15-30 stable. 3568MHz CL14-15-15-30 immediate crash loading Windows. Pleasantly surprised the RAM was able to hit stock frequencies at CL14. Could try messing with the sub-timings to tighten it a bit further, but I'm pretty sure I'm at the edge of remaining stable. Don't particularly want to spend more time on this (its been like 4 days of constant testing at this point). GPU OC'ing A pretty straightforward OC, just increasing core and memory speeds with MSI Afterburner and testing with Unigine Heaven till it crashes. Voltages for Nvindia GPUs are capped, use there's very little to worry about on the voltage and temperature side of things - provided the motherboard has good VRM. Ended up getting a +210 MHz OC on core clock speeds and +675 MHz on memory clock speed which is respectable. Tested stability with 3DMark's Time Spy stress test. Final OC Benchmarks: Userbenchmark link (old laptop for comparison) Cinebench: all-core: 1389, single-core: 174. (Ryzen's scaling with RAM OC kicking in) 3DMark's Timespy: 7585. Overall, pretty happy with the build. Time will tell if the OCs are truly stable in everyday use and if the system is future proof as I expect. Thanks to everyone in this thread for their input. Even if I haven't taken your suggestion, I've certainly spent a few hours researching around it. I probably won't be putting anymore updates on this thread but I'm happy to add on more information on what I've learnt if someone else is looking to build their own PC.

Built PC. Pics to follow. SPECS: Linky. Ended up getting the ViewSonic XG2401 I mentioned in a earlier post. I couldn't find anything with the same level of performance at that price. The Dell was out of budget. A little note on the RAM choice to add onto the previous post: Turns out all chips are "binned" according to the quality of their construction, so not all Samsung B-die are equally capable of OC'ing. It seems the most common way to determine the quality bin between each chip (without actual testing) is the look at the true latency of their default specification. This is determined by their clock frequencies and timings, like I mentioned before. In a nutshell, this is the rough ranking of true latency performance for Samsung B-die bins: 3600MHz/CL15 > 3200MHz/CL14 > 3600MHz/CL16 > 3466MHz/CL16 - where CL refers to CAS latency. Its not impossible to get a good OC with a worse binning but having better default specs gives some degree of a guarantee to it. THE BUILD: Decided to just install the Noctua NH-D15 straight away and ditch the Wraith Spire cooler. Nothing too special about the install, other than the Noctua being fucking massive. Corsair RAM is a fair amount shorter than the G.Skill I chose previously and sits comfortably under the second Noctua fan. Initial test POST was successful. Kinda. No errors displayed but the Crosshair VII Hero got stuck on Q-Code A9 (some startup code). Fixed it by using Crosshair's BIOS flashback to update to the latest version and replaced the monitor (I was trying to use the ViewSonic). Dunno which of the two was the problem - didn't bother investigating further. I didn't actually bother try going into the UEFI after the successful POST, which was mistake that I learn about later. Next up was preparing the case for the MB. Relocated the stock Fractal GP-14 fans and removed the optical drive and lower HDD cage. One Noctua exhaust fan at the rear, one intake Fractal fan at the bottom and another one of each at the front of case for more intake. Installed PSU and routed cables around the case in advance, based on MB header locations. The bottom Fractal fan is being blocked somewhat by the PSU cables but I figured partial coverage on the GPU is more useful then total coverage on the HDD cage. Removed GPU off the Motherboard before placing it inside the case. Its easier to plug cables in that way. GPU back in after everything else is in. POST works fine and I finally decide to check everything is alright in the UEFI...and it isn't. The MB is only detecting one of the RAM sticks. Had to detach the second Noctua fan and reinsert the RAM which fixed it. Not a major fault but it would have been certainly easier to do outside the case. System now has everything as expected. Stay tuned for part 2 Overclocking. (can't actually fit it all in one post lol)

@yosh56's extremely large and somewhat out-of-date tutorial is here:

I saw that one but yeah, not into curved screens. The sort of specs I'm expecting is: 144 Hz refresh rate, 1080p resolution for 24" size. 2K for 27". Colour accuracy/gamut doesn't matter to me too much, though I'm not afraid of spending a little bit extra on it. Input lag data helps a lot. Connections should be HDMI/DisplayPort. Doesn't matter which of the two. Budget is around £200. I'll probably get a TN panel. There isn't too much that IPS and VA panels have that interest me. Edit: This guy talks about RAM frequencies and timings, if anyone is interested about what I was referring to in my previous post.

That's hell of a monitor. Hell of a price tag too. Almost certainly out of my budget but I'll keep a eye on it.

Updates. Ended up pulling the trigger on most of the parts. Its mostly the same as the original list though there are a few things I wanted to mention. MB: Ended up going with the Crosshair VII Hero. The Strix as I mentioned before is still probably a better value for money option for a X470 board, but I found a Crosshair on sale anyway. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. It also turns out both M.2 slots of the Crosshair are PCIe compatible, so its still possible to run a NVMe SSD even with SLI/Crossfire. Option to run two NVMe SSDs with a single GPU is a unique feature to the Crosshair (which I will almost certainly never use). Storage: Decided to get the Crucial 1TB MX500 2.5" SSD over the M.2 version. In theme of keeping upgrade options open, it makes a lot more sense to leave the M.2 slot open for a actual SSD that uses NVMe than to fill it up with a generic SATA SSD. Still kinda stand by the idea NVMe is overkill for most applications but the option exists anyway. RAM: Changed over to the Corsair Vengeance LPX 3466 MHz (8x2 GB). Been doing a bit of reading on this and it appears despite the various RAM brands, there only appears to be three DRAM chip manufacturers creating them (Hynix/Micron/Samsung). Nutshell of it is, the LPX RAM I've now selected is a Samsung B-Die type chip. The previously suggested RAM choices were Samsung E-Die chips. These E-die chips on the whole overclocks considerably worse than B-Die, often requiring extremely high timings to meet their specified OC frequencies (if not completely incapable). Increasing the timings increases memory access time and degrades performance, offsetting gains made from increased frequencies. B-die on the other hand, can OC pretty comfortably with relatively low timings. It is considerably more expensive though. I ended up choosing a 3466 MHz stick as lower frequency B-die RAM is only marginally cheaper. (The above section on RAM likely has factual inaccuracies and I might be talking total shit.) Monitor: Now that I've locked in specs, getting a decent monitor is up next on the to do list. Looking at benchmark footage of similar systems, FPS appears to hover anywhere from 70-150 on highest settings depending on the game. In interest of reducing screen tearing and being a primarily FPS guy, a 144 Hz monitor seems like the way to go. Lowering settings to boost FPS should give a fair amount of leeway to hit around 144 Hz. Technically a G-Sync monitor would be the ideal choice, but they carry a massive premium and screen tearing at 144 Hz is going to be significantly harder to notice than at 60 Hz anyway. Current budget choice is the ViewSonic - XG2401. A more expensive (G-Sync) option is the Dell - S2417DG at double the price. The S2417DG is probably a better long-term option for future builds but at double the price? iunno.

Missed out on the last two weeks of writeups, been busy. Player list from 1/12/18 (from Husker): Player list from 8/12/18 (from Lavadragon): NOD PUG PART FOUR - 15/12 @Ryz (3) vs @TONY-STARK (2) Match 1: Walls (Winner: Ryz - Nod) Both harvester survive. Nod decides to rollout with a bunch of SBHs straight to Barracks. GDI rolls out MRLs/Meds and a early chinook for plateau control. GDI gets more field control early but the SBHs sneak into GDI's base undetected. The SBHs outside C4 the Barracks and shoot it, dealing significant perma damage. Nod starts pumping out Arties. GDI gets pushed back quite quickly due to a lack of field repairs. Nod gathers the Arties and shells Ref to death. The Arties get pushed back by a infantry dropoff on the plateau. Nod transitions to a Apache heavy composition and clears plateau. Nod tries to LCG chinook rush but it fails to deal damage. Nod gradually kills off GDI's AA towers and pumps tanks into GDI's base. It explodes. Match 2: Lakeside (Winner: Tony - Nod) A large force of Nod infantry runs into the Barracks early, causing Nod to fallback to defend. The barracks gets saved but GDI loses their harvester. Lack of funds prevents GDI from rolling out Meds. Nod rolls Lights and Arties into the field uncontested. GDI tries to chinook rush Nod's ref but opts to use Gunners and fails to kill. Nod's tanks in the meantime kill off both of GDI's guard towers and their Ref. Nod masses Apaches and wipes Nod's base. Match 3: Canyon (Winner: Ryz - Nod) Both harvesters explode. GDI tries to humvee surf which fails. GDI also runs a ton of random infantry into Nod's buildings but fails to deal any significant damage. GDI manages to delay Nod's rollout enough to roll out Meds. Nod plays defensively and pushes GDI back using superior field repairs. In classic Canyon fashion, GDI's base gets shelled to death. Match 4: Field X (Winner: Tony - Nod) GDI starts with the traditional grenadier rush into Nod's ref. It fails to deal damage and Nod decides to engineer rush with the people who defended the Ref. This rush gets intercepted with a second grenadier rush. Neither manages to make it through each other. Nod rolls out Arties/Lights and GDI rolls out Meds. GDI forgets to purchase field repairs but defensive tanking prevents GDI losing too many tanks. GDI gathers together and defensive buffs through Nod's tanks. GDI wipes the field clean and Nod immediately responds with Stanks. GDI plays perhaps a bit too defensively and fails to adequately scan the field despite a early callout. The stanks roll into GDI's base undetected and kill GDI's AGT. GDI tries to Gunner rush but this gets spotted and shelled to death with Arties. Nod in the meantime shells the crap out of GDI's Ref and PP, killing the latter. With the increased prices and barely any income, GDI is unable to gather enough Meds to push back the field. GDI surrenders. Match 5: Eyes (Winner: Technically Ryz? - Nod) GDI loses their harvester and Nod saves theirs. Nod spams Arties. GDI rolls a few Meds and tries to APC rush. Nod manages to get a break on GDI's PP with a LCG and spy Havoc in the meantime. The APC rush fails. Nod's Arties shells GDI's few tank and hammers GDI's buildings. Nod buffs and kills GDI's Ref. The server crashes in response. Whelp. Player list from Minji's stream:

Heads up, @roweboat I've done a bit more research on importing goods from the US. It seems like the combination of base cost + shipping costs + customs duty and the import VAT on that total is going to make any deal between us not worthwhile. Looks like you'll have to sell it in the US. Seriously thanks for the offer though. Huh. I thought I read somewhere that the stock coolers except the Wraith Prism of the 2700x were pretty bad. On a second look, it appears I was mistaken. Thanks for this. Sidenote: I am currently pretty jelly over the amount of PC component sales you guys have going over in the US. r/BuildaPCSalesUK is annoyingly quiet...

So I've taken a more detailed look at the Asus ROG Strix X470-F. Seems like a really solid MB with the X470 chipset. The Crosshair VII Hero does have significantly better VRM (probably overkill actually) and some nifty features like BIOS flashback though. I've also learnt both boards have heatsinks for the M.2 slots, so cooling shouldn't be a issue. That said, apparently one the M.2 slots of the C7H eats into the GPU's bandwidth which is a pretty big issue. Can't find anything on the Strix, other than the second M.2 slot being limited to SATA. Not a issue with my build's SSD though. I'll sit on it a little while, but the Strix seems like a better option overall. ...Fuck, BIOS flashback just seems like such a nice feature to idiot-proof a expensive board though. That's pretty neat, though I fear shipping costs over to the UK might make it not worth our whiles. Nevertheless, what model is the GTX 1080 and when are you expecting to sell it? Ah. I misunderstood about the AIOs. TIL. Still, Noctua seems to outperform it given it's price point. I'm aware RAM is fairly interchangeable, though I'd rather not risk it when I don't have a backup plan. Definitely something to consider when upgrading from the current selection though. So I decided to search for some comparisons of the GPUs playing Battlefield V. I honestly can't say i'm convinced. No, it wouldn't bottleneck [1, 2, 3]. The 2nd gen Ryzens actually have pretty comparable performance to the 8th gen Intel CPUs. Intel still has the edge with their more powerful single and quad core operation but the ridiculous premium on their CPUs makes it a hard sell. Regardless, as I mentioned in my first post, I'll be sticking with AMD to utilise their AM4 socket for future CPUs. Intel has been silent over their future support of chipsets so they aren't a option for my build. There's very little meaning in getting a Ryzen 7 2700X for gaming. Both CPUs have very similar performance per core still and very few games make use of additional cores. Decent option for a workstation though. Yeah, the 9th gen Intel seems pretty meh.

Thanks for input. I probably won't be getting the Corsair H100i water cooling setup. Noctua NH-D15 has comparable performance and is apparently quieter. I don't really care much about about looks in the face of performance anyway. Plus, I'd probably do something stupid with water cooling and break something. Maybe something to revisit in future. I didn't mention it in my original post but the choice of thermal paste was entirely due to this chart. Didn't want to go for a liquid metal TP so the Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut was the best one - on paper at least. The MSI B450 GAMING PRO CARBON AC is almost certainly the correct choice for the current build. I do kinda want to leave my MB alone for quite a while though (probably till DDR5 is out and somewhat affordable) and the X470 boards would probably scale better into the future if I ever get a Zen 2 CPU. Undecided on the ROG Strix X470-F. I'll take a more indepth look later. I'm not too worried about low storage. Getting another SSD or HDD when I'm low and installing it then probably shouldn't be that hard with the Define R5. Is there any benefits to splitting up the SSD? I know the Samsung 970 EVO SSD supports NVMe but that isn't of much practical use considering the sizes of files I'll be accessing anyway. It would seem more practical to just get a slower but cheaper SSD. I'll take a more indepth look at RAM with the MB. On the whole I'd like to stick with RAM sticks that are among the MB's QVL. I get that they might work while not being on the list but I'd like to play it safe here. 3 GHz over 3.2 GHz could definitely be a option, especially if there's a 32GB support on the QVL as well. The Asus GTX 1080 TUBRO seems to have cooling issues under heavy load , which is less than ideal. On the flipside, the Zotac GTX 1080's price tag is really warding me off from upgrading. Alternative GTX 1080s seem to be in the same £500-ish price range. GTX 1080 benchmarks on the whole seem to be around 5-10% higher than the GTX 1070 Ti, but being 30% more expensive (+£120) means I probably won't be upgrading unless there's a additional reason to. Dunno much about the PSUs. On the whole my understanding is to choose something that is modular, provides enough and is reliable. Been working off this. Side note on fan noise - not much of a concern for me but one of the prime selling points of the Fractal Define R5 case is being very quiet with it's sound proofing.

EDIT: I built a thing! Link to final specs and build. So I'd figured its about time I ditch this dying laptop I've been playing on for the last four years or so. This the first build I'm doing and I'm spending a hefty amount on it, so I'd appreciate any input on the specs or anything I've missed. Budget: £1500-ish flexible. Purpose: Primarily gaming. Time scale: Preferably soon but not high priority. Up to 2 months or so. PCPartPicker Link Current Planned Spec: £1450~ CPU: Ryzen 2600x - 33% cheaper than the 2700x with most of the performance when it comes to gaming. Likely to wait for Zen 2 release if CPU power is lacking. The AM4 chipset is supposedly supported till Zen 3 after all. CPU Cooler: Wraith Spire/Noctua NH-D15 - Stock Wraith Spire of the Ryzen for a little while probably, then the Noctua NH-D15 to push XFR2 OC. Ugly cooler, extremely effective. RAM clearance might be a issue, so might need to raise second fan. Noctua needs its' own mounting kit for AM4, but this can be ordered for free with the cooler. MB: ASUS ROG Crosshair VII - Appears to be arguably the best-in-slot X470 MB for options, though at a premium. Probably a higher end MB than I require actually, though the additional options available is nice for future. RAM: G.Skill Trident Z DDR4-3200MHZ - Ryzen's performance appears to scale significantly with faster RAM speeds and the Trident Z is a higher end RAM stick proven capable of it. Also part of ROG CH7's QVL, so there shouldn't be any compatibility issues. Storage: 1TB Crucial MX500 SSD & 1TB WB HDD - Exact specs generally unimportant. Picked large and cheap. SSD for main, HDD for speed-unimportant other files. Possibly M.2 form factor for SSD, slightly concerned over heat generation of the M.2 version though. GPU: Nvinda GTX 1070 Ti - Tiny bit weaker than the 1080, but considerably less expensive. 1070s are a lower cost option for less performance. I figured the GPU would be the #1 place to spend extra in though. Next step up after this would probably be a RTX card a few years down the line. Case: Fractal Define R5 - A highly rated case with a ton of placement options. Dust filters help for maintenance. Large enough for the MB, GPU, PSU and CPU cooler (w/ raised fan). I'll probably remove much of the HDD & the Optical cage to make room for a front intake fan and have a small portion of the HDD cage hanging from the top. PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 650 - A highly rated and quiet PSU, 650 is probably enough for any expansion I decide to do in future. Case Fans: Noctua NF-A15 + 2x Fractal GP14 - Fractal fans stock from case. Expecting to use 2 intake and 1 exhaust for net positive air pressure inside case. In theory this should prevent dust from wandering in through the gaps in the case. I'm thinking of placing the 2 intakes on the front and bottom to make use of the dust filters with the exhaust at the rear. A top mounted exhaust is also a option which carries the benefit of utilising natural convection but I'm a bit worried of dust falling through when the PC is off. I'll also need to get a new monitor but I'd like to finalise the PC specs first. If anyone has any idea how the prices of PC components tends to change over the next few months, that'll be greatly appreciated. >Also, I'll probably be able to get back on the PUG writeups next week. Been pretty busy.

So I decided to test the damage profile of this. Setup has 2 MRLS lined up in the same way as the PUG and 6 Buggies on the other side. The MRLS fires at the Buggies, using the minimap to aim, and the damage taken by the Buggies should give a rough idea of the damage profile from the missiles. Screenshots below. The average damage profile (of three sets) of the: Inner MRLS (closest to WF), starting from the left buggy is: 0 / 0/ 3/ 87.6/ 164.0/ 191.3 Outer MRLS (closest to PP), starting from the left buggy is: 0 / 0/ 1/ 76.3/ 157.6/ 196.6 In reality, these numbers would be considerably lower as you wouldn't be able to always use the minimap to aim and most players are probably smart enough to fall back as they get hit. Flip-side of this is that it'll hurt more with vetenacy increases. Make of what you will with the data. Regardless, Nod actually doesn't have to take damage at all from the MRLS. Sticking to the outer wall (where the left Buggy is) completely negates the splash damage you take. Even if you have a large tank force and can't fit everyone away from the splash, positioning field repairs towards the outer wall would already greatly increase staying power. I get that old habits die hard, but this isn't a even particularly difficult or complex change for players to make to counter the problem. TL;DR: Don't stand where the missiles land.

I'm going to assume you're trying to quote the VP per dump thing and hope I don't look like a idiot. Yes, it would. I personally don't have any issues with it. The veterancy snowball only becomes significant when you hit elite, at which point you're far beyond the early game.

We're trying to make losing the harvester less economically punishing for the reasons in Boxes' post. There appears to be some worry that a decreased harvester payload might cause players to stop defending their harvester, so the VP per dump suggestion was there to counteract the decrease in a different way.

Kinda with Fffreak on this one, having a extra economic snowball mechanic probably isn't needed especially since the winning team tends to also have the veterancy advantage. Harvester dump size scaling with time could be nice though. It'll help reduce the impact of losing the first harvester while retaining importance after early game. If you're trying to make long-term defence of Harvesters more important, wouldn't it be simpler to give players a small amount of VP on each successful dump? Veterancy already exists for the long-game and we already know how the game plays with steady VP income (from killing enemy harvs pre-commander patch). Giving credits to the enemy team on losing your harvester makes the economy snowball even worse. Not recommended. Adding a turret to the Harvester seems more like a gimmick than anything else. Having the harvester kill multiple enemy infantry means nothing if it dies. You're still going to be feeling the full effect of a crippled early game rollout. On most maps its relatively easy to break line-of-sight with the Harvester to C4 it anyway, so it'll probably be more annoying than anything else. There's also the issue of effectively having a respawning guard tower which is a whole other issue. It wouldn't be too difficult to micro the harvester up to the enemy base and activate it for offensive usage, so you'll probably need some method to track the distance from it's base.

I'm generally okay with decreased economic focus on the harvester. Increased tick rate seems sensible for early game, undecided for mid-late game. It does kinda feel like increasing the tick rate is a band-aid fix to decreases wait times in those mid-game stalemates, rather providing a objective to remove wait times entirely. I recall hearing this in one of the post-PUG discussions as well though I don't recall it being exclusive to dead refineries. Still, I'm very much a fan of it, as gives a value to getting small bits of field control even while losing. It potentially opens up some interesting map design choices with additional tiberium fields or early game options if purchasable with refineries alive. If I recall correctly, it was suggested as some purchasable item like the Repair tool though, identification and pricing will be difficult with different infantry combinations. A additional weaponless (or pistol only) free infantry with the tool would probably be better suited, as it'll be a lot clear players who to attack/defend and clearly defines the role. This is probably a relatively high effort idea to implement however. Stopping the harvester is pretty common when you're locked in. Strategies of keeping Refinery alive to farm VP from the harvester seems a bit optimistic to me.

I really do like this conceptually, though it is a pretty niche strategy. Perhaps niche enough to abandon for a longterm solution? The building mines idea seems okay for directing mines where they're required though I'm concerned about tunnel mines. Personal mines could cover it in theory, though coordinating multiple players to restock them might prove to be frustrating. The exact opposite also possible. Getting a Adv.Engie with a tank is standard practice, a coordinated team can completely lock down a area for only a slightly delayed rollout. It'd probably be more sensible just to have ceiling cameras which commander spot you in line-of-sight. Placement and team alert remains a concern though the interaction when detected is back to the players rather than static defence. Should give infiltrators more options than get shot and die. Also just seems more like a infiltration-type thing to have. Losing the Bar/HoN loses you access to: Advanced repairs for sustaining tanks, Snipers to OHK infantry, EMPs grenades to prevent tank rushes, SBH/Gunner rush options, and of course, mines to stop infiltration. Losing those buildings is still incredibly painful for a team even without mines. Decoupling mines from it just helps makes those games where you lose Bar/HoN early more of a fight and lets the guys with Hotwires and Technicians actually play the game. Personally, I think mining does kinda feel more like a chore to do and maintain rather than a engaging mechanic. I'm more inclined to remove it, though I'll defer to the guys who do regularly play defence and infiltrate. On a semi-related note, having locked (hackable) doors is a old idea I've had. Haven't evaluated it, but it always seemed a bit silly there isn't any security tied to building doors in multiplayer.

...I'm not gonna change it. 25/11 Sun @Xeon Wraith(2) vs @Whistle (3) Match 1: Complex (Winner: Whistle - Nod) Nod pulls Arty/Lights. GDI tries for a APC rush but it gets spotted and shut down. GDI tries to pull Meds afterward, but lack of field presence lets Nod siege the WF and Ref freely. Ref dies with no contest. Nod rolls in and GDI is left without options to respond. Match 2: Crash Site (Winner: Xeon - Nod) Nod pulls Arty/Lights. GDI with MRLS/Meds. Nod's early rollout lets them quickly lock GDI in and kill their GT. Most of Nod's Lights overextend without any repairs and die however. Meds roll up and finish off the Arties. Second wave of Lights and a Flamer arrive to pressure GDI's tanks but is unable to sustain it without repairs. GDI gradually builds up a sizable tank force of Meds and Mammoths and secures their side of the field. A Tech manages to sneak into the WF as they move out however and a distraction nuke and MRLS steal keeps GDI too busy to disarm it in time. Nod floods GDI's base with Lights while GDI Mobius rushes the Ref. The Mobius rush gets spotted and shut down. Nod's tanks shell the rest of GDI's base down. Match 3: Tunnels (Winner: Whistle - Nod) GDI all-ins to secure their Harvester. Nod's Harvester subsequently remains untouched. GDI masses a ton of Meds but with minimal repairs. The Meds overextend and get picked off by Nod's Arties and Lights. GDI's base gets shelled down with no contest. Match 4: XMountain (Winner: Whistle - GDI) Nod decides to allocate dedicated field repairs so they don't throw away the field. Nod is late with their tank rollout however and GDI pushes Meds by the time Nod has Arties in position. Nod's AT Infantry keeps GDI's tanks at bay but the opportunity cost of vehicles prevents Nod from gaining ground. Nod tries to pull vehicles to push GDI back but is unable to get enough vehicles. Field control goes back and forth. Eventually two Hotwires sneak into Nod's Ref and kill it, with another killing HoN. Nod surrenders. Team Xeon: -Redarmy +Boxes Match 5: Field X (Winner: Xeon - GDI) GDI saves their Harv and Nod loses theirs. Both teams roll out with their standard vehicles. GDI gets a upper hand on the field early, but once again lacks the repairs to maintain pressure. Nod manages to stank rush the AGT shortly after getting pushed back but only deal minor perma damage without any veterancy bonuses. GDI dedicates a MRLS to scan for Stanks and proceeds to spend the next 20 minutes trying to get field repairs and tanks. They don't get them. Eventually, GDI starts buffing with 3-4 tanks getting bits of perma damage on HoN. Nod tries their own rocket rushes through tunnel, but they get scouted and by infantry in the tunnels. After 45 minutes of gametime, two 1K infantry manage to sneak into the Air and deal perma damage to it. This also pulls technicians from HoN and allows GDI to kill it off with their vehicles. Nod quits afterward. Player list from Minji's stream: Some really rough games and could have easily gone 5-0 if my team didn't get lucky or if team Whistle pushed hard on tanks. Just basic issues with team composition and a stubbornness to not adapt. @Tankers: Being able to use a tank does not mean you're beyond taking field repair duty. If I can switch to repairing while holding commander powers, so can you.