Questions from a Koran / Bible n00b

[Kalle Bowo]

Hey folks,

by now I'm growing pretty tired of this damn Muslim/Koran/refugee discussion that's going on here in Germany. Well and since I consider myself a rational person who likes to make informed decisions, I thought to myself "let's read the Koran" ... "and THEN judge those refugees, muahahaaa" ... No, honestly, I'm an atheist. I believe in science and facts, in freedom, harmony, I am pro tolerance and against violence. Let's say I try to be a decent human being. Anyway, one point on my to do list was also always to read the Bible. And now might be a pretty handy time to read both and compare what they say.

So to put this short: Are there any different versions of those two books, the Bible and the Koran, I should care about? I mean I have literally no idea about that, I just heard that there are different versions for example of the bible because they were translated by different people at different points in time or something. Let's say I don't want to order "Bible version 1.2" on Amazon when there's already "version 1.55 extended edition + hotfix" on the market. You know what I mean? So if there's something like a standard or go-to editon of both books, please tell me more about it

cheers,
Kalle

 

PS: Please, PLEASE don't start any religious discussion down here ^^ everybody is free to believe what they want to believe. And I know many people take these things pretty seriously, so I don't want any bad blood between you guys ^^

[Handepsilon]

We (Muslim) consider every single text in Koran (Al Qur'an) sacred and so are not allowed to edit the contents of Koran in any way. I'm not so sure if there's any differences between same language translation, but since we have Islam organization in the government, I think they handle all the translation and make sure everything is the exact same all across the country. I do know they're in charge of interpreting each verses in Koran

Even with translation though, the original text is printed on the top before the translation, and in sermons, people always read it in Arabic first before starting to translate it.

I've read a few history about Koran, how each and every verses were written as soon as they were heard, how they're collected and booked after Muhammad is dead, and how Caliph Utsman ensure that only single dialect of Koran (Quraisy, since that's the original dialect when it first came down) exists to prevent Muslims to fight against each others over how Koran is recited.

[KrypTheBear]

The Quran is similar to the bible, in terms of that diehard followers of the religion will accept every single word as is and will take these words as facts.
The reason the Islamic State (ISIS, ISIL, IS, whatever you want to call that) exists is cause of verses like stated here: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx
Of course, not every Muslim (especially those who can actually use their own mind instead of blindly following a religion - same applies to Christians) is going to commence a Jihad cause of such texts. I know enough Muslims to say some are very tolerant, open minded and friendly.

There is no revision of the Quran, only translations. There's plenty of different translations and interpretations of the Bible afaik, since it was written in old Latin and translated like a billion times by now. But essentially all of them share the same story. Keep in mind that the Bible itself is huge, you might want to read up on summaries and the likes first before plunging into such a huge book.

By the way, the Quran is sort of... weird to read. It contradicts itself in more than a few ways, since the core rules are like "You shall not kill" while clearly stating that all infidels must die. The bible is also violent in some passages, but doesn't directly command me to murder anyone so... make up your own mind, read that stuff if you're interested in that. 

[Handepsilon]

11 minutes ago, KrypTheBear said:

By the way, the Quran is sort of... weird to read. It contradicts itself in more than a few ways, since the core rules are like "You shall not kill" while clearly stating that all infidels must die. The bible is also violent in some passages, but doesn't directly command me to murder anyone so... make up your own mind, read that stuff if you're interested in that. 

I might be wrong, but it's probably because Jesus and Muhammad's times are different. If I recall correctly, the verses that states to wage war upon the infidels came after Muhammad takes refuge in Medina.

And a bit related to that. my last friday's sermon urges to oppose non-believers, but use violence ONLY as last resort. Frankly I'm not in any way knowledgeable enough to interpret Al-Qur'an nor do I have any Islamic reading on my desk atm, so I can't really tell much about what each Surah means

[KrypTheBear]

18 minutes ago, Handepsilon said:

I might be wrong, but it's probably because Jesus and Muhammad's times are different. If I recall correctly, the verses that states to wage war upon the infidels came after Muhammad takes refuge in Medina.

And a bit related to that. my last friday's sermon urges to oppose non-believers, but use violence ONLY as last resort.

Interesting note, the Bible and the Quran overlap at certain points, going as far as to even state Jesus/Isa as a prophet in the Quran, as well as some of the miracles he did in the Bible. Of course he doesn't have a messianic role like in the Bible there.

Violence should never be advocated by a religion as an option, not even as a last resort. Violence is a personal choice, based on personal jurisdiction, at least in my opinion. Another reason why I'm not really attracted to any religion and have my personal beliefs. But yeah, I don't intend to spark a discussion over that : P

Edited November 11, 2016 by KrypTheBear

[Handepsilon]

9 minutes ago, KrypTheBear said:

Interesting note, the Bible and the Quran overlap at certain points, going as far as to even state Jesus/Isa as a prophet in the Quran, as well as some of the miracles he did in the Bible. Of course he doesn't have a messianic role like in the Bible there.

Correct. We do believe that he will come down and save us from Dajjal when the end of the world comes.

Quote

Violence should never be advocated by a religion as an option, not even as a last resort. Violence is a personal choice, based on personal jurisdiction, at least in my opinion.

The funny thing here is that we're not allowed to commit violence under our own personal desire

[Axesor]

To understand that book you have to learn the arabic language and read the original, becouse not a single translation is 100% correct. Confirmed by every beliver that I asked. It's pretty much "cold buffet" full of doubles with opposite interpretation.. well u'll see by yourself. So...:

Koran is the thing that everybody references to, but to understand, u have to read the collection of Mohammeds life and his tradicions...becouse this is what muslims have to follow. Or am I wrong, Handepsilon? So if you end reading the Koran, u'll end up same empty as when you started to read it. While in Bible, its everything wrote in that book, old and new testament.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Axesor

[Handepsilon]

29 minutes ago, Axesor said:

Koran is the thing that everybody references to, but to understand, u have to read the collection of Mohammeds life and his tradicions...becouse this is what muslims have to follow. Or am I wrong, Handepsilon? So if you end reading the Koran, u'll end up same empty as when you started to read it. While in Bible, its everything wrote in that book, old and new testament.

Well, we Muslims have to follow both Al-Qur'an AND Muhammad's Hadith (basically his actions and sayings). The latter is usually the hardest to come by since you need to trace everything correctly so you won't end up with false Hadith. (most of the times, Bukhairi & Muslim's research on these are thorough and therefore correct. The others, not so much...)

In a way you are correct. Most interpretations seem to trace when each verses came down. I do have a storybook of his life, and this comic as well (Muhammad is mostly represented by glowing circle with arabic letter which I believe says either his name or 'Rasulullah'). It's quite an engaging story too.

 

Quick fact : You should not judge each verse as a single sentence, lest you might horribly misinterpret it. Like this one verse that says 'So woe to those who pray' and the next verse actually explaining the last verse 'who are unmindful of their prayers'. I've seen this touched in this one TV show we once had.

[voltex]

Well as fore Bibles you should go with the KJV (King James Version) which is about as close to the original source as your gonna get which contains The Old Testament (Hebrew Bible) and the New Testament (which is after Jesus's arrival and focus's on His teachings).

I would suggest starting with the New Testament which starts at the book of Mathew as the Old Testament was mainly for the Hebrews ( though is great for study) and the New Testament is for everybody. Also the Old Testament can be a little hard to get through with all the laws and whatnot but if you want to start from there that's fine.

[lawANDorder]

OT question from a law student: does the muslim law have paragraphs like a lawtext or is it more like that those rules are extracted from "stories" in the quoran?

[Quinc3y]

I'm not an expert on english/german translations, but, as voltex said, you should totally start reading the Bible from the New Testament. It's a much more interesting read and the gospels are what defines christanity. And another tip: read slowly.

[Handepsilon]

6 hours ago, lawANDorder said:

OT question from a law student: does the muslim law have paragraphs like a lawtext or is it more like that those rules are extracted from "stories" in the quoran?

Well, not all in Qur'an is in form of stories. Some of them are more like straight statements.

But basically, yeah. Laws, basic knowledges, etc. are all thrown into mix.