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What RenX really needs


Crnyo
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RTS interface or commander mode.

One player should control bots using RTS-style marquee selection while other team should consist only out of human players without commander. If bots are directly controlled by player commander then that solves the issues caused by bad AI and makes for a very interesting game mode.

Alternatively, we could have 2 commanders controlling bots and duking it out while PC soldiers do their own thing. From RTS perspective they would be something like hero classes commanders can't control-

This mod would put bots to a very good use which is exactly what this game with low playerbase needs.

As far as I know there is nothing like this on game market. Natural Selection 2 has commander system as well but commander there doesn't directly controls units, he just builds stuff and buys upgrades.

What do you guys think?

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I'm not yet very familiar with UDK and RenX source code but it seems to me that this wouldn't require very much work.

Largest bit that needs to be coded is camera class for commanders and a unit bar for buying vehicles and infantry.

Everything else is already in game. Bot decision making AI needs to be removed and replaced with listener which would transmit commander's order where to go or what vehicle/character to buy. That shouldn't be longer than few lines of code.

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It could be done on UDK, but would largely change what the game is. I mean, a lot of people like a sort-of-shooter.

Besides, the overhead mode would be mostly cheating in this game mode considering the value of intel and the lack of an RTS mechanic called "Shroud". Now, shroud could painstakingly actually be added in, where your vision is team dependent and anything your team has no direct vision of is not rendered in your vision.

I always pitched this as a good project as a separate game. It would have perks, such as better 2v2-6v6 interaction, less players a match as body-swapping with bots would fill the game, and possibly base-building a la dungeon defenders. Wouldn't that be awesome? Entirely different, but awesome.

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Would love it if it had 2-3 commanders each in charge of third or half the army.

-Due to one person controlling would mean the game depends too much on him.

The commanders would do still be able to play normally. some keybind opens up

the strategy interface which should not include overly many options. preferably

little or no micro.

Commanders plans will be visible to teammates for coordination. Add in squads

where players come in. Squads would of course be optional. Now in squads you

could either have a leader or a poll system in order to coordinate better.

"Missions" from polls or messages from Leader would be at the middle bottom screen

and flashes a bit when they come. Would be nice if this was either like that or next

to chat and thus not as intruding, option to choose would be best.

Commanders should only be using maps with Players, their AI and the other commanders

AI colored according to their group. Enemy's would only be visible on said map if someone

has spotted them recently.

I don't feel that this should be a complete changeover from renx but rather a new

gamemode.

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....... lol

EDIT:

I don't think overhead maps are really all that necessary. None of the maps are all that big, and having to open up a map takes you out of the game. Just being an overhead view entirely REALLY takes you out of the game which actually puts your team down a player, and removes any sense of danger for whoever is commanding.

I think it'd work if teams did have a commander, or optionally several, that could use an item........saaaaaay binoculars, that let them set targets/objectives/Waypoints without them ever actually leaving the fight and being vulnerable. They'd have to stay in the back, and they'd probably be best as a sniper/Tech, but since their main job would be coordinating this wouldn't be much of a problem at all.

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Hm I guess people aren't thrilled with the idea after all.

I think people play multiplayer games because they enjoy the social aspect, not just opportunity to chat with other players but rather the knowledge that you are playing with other humans. I'm confident that even if we made AI to be much more smarter people would still prefer playing against other humans. For instance, imagine someone told you during your RenX game that all other players were actually bots. I'm sure the game would suddenly become much less fun despite the gameplay objectively remaining the same.

Commander mode is essentially a way to make fighting against bots feel like fighting against other humans. NPC Pawns would no longer be controlled by AI. When fighting those NPC Pawns you would know you are actually fighting other human player and that is what would make it more satisfying. Fighting against bots is currently PVE, if bots are commanded by human player then suddenly it becomes PVP. Thats the whole idea behind commander mode.

When you go on a killstreak you would know enemy commander is watching his pawns getting slaughtered and is raging. When you get baseraped by NPC pawns you would know human commander is orchestrating this.

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....... lol

EDIT:

I don't think overhead maps are really all that necessary. None of the maps are all that big, and having to open up a map takes you out of the game. Just being an overhead view entirely REALLY takes you out of the game which actually puts your team down a player, and removes any sense of danger for whoever is commanding.

I think it'd work if teams did have a commander, or optionally several, that could use an item........saaaaaay binoculars, that let them set targets/objectives/Waypoints without them ever actually leaving the fight and being vulnerable. They'd have to stay in the back, and they'd probably be best as a sniper/Tech, but since their main job would be coordinating this wouldn't be much of a problem at all.

Well I personally think that commanding a squad of bots against FPS players would be a fun RTS concept. Overhead camera is necessary so you can issue orders and position bots more easily. Technically they wouldn't be bots any more because player commander is controlling them but you get the idea...

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Would love it if it had 2-3 commanders each in charge of third or half the army.

-Due to one person controlling would mean the game depends too much on him.

This is a good point. If commander controls more than 5 pawns and someone else applies for commanding then pawns could be evenly split between you. But if no one applies for commanding then it would be possible for one commander to controller all of the pawns. However, I'd put this under fine-tuning category. For starters we should aim to make simplest prototype version of commander mode so playerbase could actually getting a feeling for it and then decide whether they like the idea or not.

The commanders would do still be able to play normally. some keybind opens up

the strategy interface which should not include overly many options. preferably

little or no micro.

This is the problematic part. If commanders were only to give waypoints instead of micromanaging pawns then issue with bad bot AI would still remain. Coders would still have to spend time on improving AI and fighting bots would still feel like PVE. On the other hand if commander micromanages pawns from overhead view then fighting those same bots would now be true PVP.

Commanders plans will be visible to teammates for coordination. Add in squads

where players come in. Squads would of course be optional. Now in squads you

could either have a leader or a poll system in order to coordinate better.

"Missions" from polls or messages from Leader would be at the middle bottom screen

and flashes a bit when they come. Would be nice if this was either like that or next

to chat and thus not as intruding, option to choose would be best.

So players could use vote menu to initiate bot rushes. You could choose between APC rush, tank rush, aircraft rush, rocket soldier or engineer rush through the tunnels etc...

Basically every category of rush would have scripted strategy for bots to follow. If vote to rush passess then global AI controller would temporarily be replaced by specialized AI sub-controller specifically scripted for executing specified type of rush strategy.

This would require some work not only because those strategies need to be coded but because bot pathfinding isn't reliable. They tend to crash into each other and get stuck. If you ever wondered why bots suicide it is because of bad pathfinding. When they can't get unstuck they just kill themselves and respawn.

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Hm I guess people aren't thrilled with the idea after all.

Your idea has been there at least since the original Renegade and there even is the Half-Life mod Empires that does something like that.

However, people just have more "humble" feelings towards what RenX needs. What you proposed is a massive undertaking.

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What renx needs, after adjustments to a reliably endable game mode, could be new content. The hover Mrls has been in game files for many patches now. Would be out of place a bit, but more stuff like that and McFarland.

An "alternative vehicle" mode that implements stuff from Tiberian Sun could be cool and may not be too hard to implement, in comparison.

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I think we need the ability to give bots commands so they can place mines, join in a rush, defend, follow, attack etc. In offline mode, you can at least get bots to follow you. I guess the problem with that is who they can follow so maybe once a bot is following someone, they can't follow anyone else or once given a command.

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I think we need the ability to give bots commands so they can place mines, join in a rush, defend, follow, attack etc. In offline mode, you can at least get bots to follow you. I guess the problem with that is who they can follow so maybe once a bot is following someone, they can't follow anyone else or once given a command.

I think the bots are already good enough for what they do, without any more work time spent benefiting the playerbase.

Now, doing work on it in general, if things can be done just out of side-projects, that would be great, it couldn't hurt.

a 5v5 mode where each of the 5 gets 4 squad-bots paired up with them and take a variety of orders, would also be cool. That is how the game should already be played, except with humans, but humans don't always do that...

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