Supply beacons

[yosh56]

Just another idea that came about whilst watching bad teams complain about being bad.

We currently have 2 beacons that are both offensive in nature, and just a little bit defensive if used that way. What we don't necessarily have is a utility beacon. I've also heard the argument that infantry have to go all the way back to base to get ammo, and technicians rarely turn around to replenish infantry health if there are injured vehicles on the field.

What I was thinking is that a supply beacon be implemented. It could be set just like a regular beacon, have a countdown (not necessarily a broadcasted one) and on completion we could either have AI transport helicopters drop health/armour/ammo pickups or just limit it to a para drop from the sky. I favour the former idea as the transport helicopters would be able to be shot down, leading to it not being 100% safe to just sit on the Walls plateau and snipe forever, as the supply chopper would be very obvious and easy to shoot down.

Just to differentiate it more from a regular beacon, it also would be nice if it was destroy able by more than just a repair gun.

Overall, the idea is just to give infantry some form of staying power in the field, as many are opposed to infinite ammo, and others are opposed to this idea of having to always run away from battle to go get ammo.

The beacon allows you to refill mid-field, but A) pick ups can be stolen and B) you have to find somewhere to sit in the field that isn't so hot that you'll die before you get your goods.

[Truxa]

I know some are against Planetside 2, but this idea comes from PS2: Let technicians and hotwires drop ammo crates or refill nodes or whatnot.

As the game mechanics do not allow for passive ammo regain, people would need to "use" the packet on the ground and it could only deliver 10% of your max ammo or so, meaning it wont replenish it all at once and having only 5 uses, so in total replenishes 50%.

Add a cooldown timer (1-5 minutes?) for dropping it. Dropping another would mean the prior one disappears, so no multy dropping.

And to top it off, the enemy can use it too! So carelessly dropping them around is a bad idea

[yosh56]

Honestly I was trying to stay away from giving engineers anymore power. They're already the only unit that can repair vehicles, repair structures, solo a structure silently, capture tech buildings, disarm mines, heal infantry, disarm beacons and plant mines. If the ability is tied to anyone, it'd make more sense to give the Officer classes some secondary use.

[IllumZar]

it'd make more sense to give the Officer classes some secondary use.

Totally agree with this one.

Officers are rarely played but with that kind of power they might actually be usefull.

Remember the OldRen singleplayer campaign? Didn't the Officers drop all kinds of goodies on parachutes?

[yosh56]

it'd make more sense to give the Officer classes some secondary use.

Totally agree with this one.

Officers are rarely played but with that kind of power they might actually be usefull.

Remember the OldRen singleplayer campaign? Didn't the Officers drop all kinds of goodies on parachutes?

That's partly where the idea came from. I'm just hinting at making more than the chem-trooper and engineer have reasons to pick them aside from their single weapon.

[Truxa]

Honestly I was trying to stay away from giving engineers anymore power. They're already the only unit that can repair vehicles, repair structures, solo a structure silently, capture tech buildings, disarm mines, heal infantry, disarm beacons and plant mines. If the ability is tied to anyone, it'd make more sense to give the Officer classes some secondary use.

Fair enough, the only reason I hinted the hotwire/tech to do this is because of the PS2 Technician. It's a supportive role, thats the only reason.

Engineers can't solo a building with 2 remotes and a single timed C4, so perhaps it's the engineer's job then?

I'd add to it that it wont replenish C4's though, only AMMO!

[boxes]

I love this idea, but it will only make sense if this was something Engies/Techs/Hotties could only do, simply because they are the only support classes in the game.

Ammo resupplies should replace remote C4s as Truxa mentioned, and could also be used by enemies (supposing it's something that is dropped on the floor for people to use, and not "given to"). This way these classes will lose a lot in their offensive capabilities in exchange to further enhance their support roles.

[Darkraptor]

Also by losing HoN or barracks you cant get annymore tech or Hotw.

But now you need the Engies more then ever to attack the enemy base.

So i´am supporting this idea viewtopic.php?f=26&t=74068.

Another idea would be to place ammunition depots in the middle of each map.

[yosh56]

I love this idea, but it will only make sense if this was something Engies/Techs/Hotties could only do, simply because they are the only support classes in the game.

Ammo resupplies should replace remote C4s as Truxa mentioned, and could also be used by enemies (supposing it's something that is dropped on the floor for people to use, and not "given to"). This way these classes will lose a lot in their offensive capabilities in exchange to further enhance their support roles.

Technically snipers are support classes, they just happen to be fairly good at CQC in Ren if you have the reflexes for it.

But seriously, engineers are already useful enough. How many people do you see use an officer after the first 5 minutes of the game? Not many at all. Now how many run with a Hoty/Tech using a carbine? A helluva lot more. If it's a map with a tib-silo then it's a Hoty with a tib weapon that can basically negate the point of using anything other than a sniper or a PIC. A tech with a sidearm is both combat efficient, a building destroyer, and can do anything on the field. There's almost no reason to choose a tier 1/2 infantry unit, except the SBH for obvious reasons.

Distribute SOME power, sheesh.

Honestly I was trying to stay away from giving engineers anymore power. They're already the only unit that can repair vehicles, repair structures, solo a structure silently, capture tech buildings, disarm mines, heal infantry, disarm beacons and plant mines. If the ability is tied to anyone, it'd make more sense to give the Officer classes some secondary use.

Fair enough, the only reason I hinted the hotwire/tech to do this is because of the PS2 Technician. It's a supportive role, thats the only reason.

Engineers can't solo a building with 2 remotes and a single timed C4, so perhaps it's the engineer's job then?

I'd add to it that it wont replenish C4's though, only AMMO!

I'll admit, this sounds like an ability best suited for a character instead of a free class. Free engineers are supposed to be useful but limited. They can already do everything a tech can do except mine.

If it isn't tied directly to engineers, I also don't see why it shouldn't refill C4 as well.

[Handepsilon]

How about Engineer being able to drop less quality supply? So that they're not too limited when Barracks or HoN is gone

[Truxa]

If it isn't tied directly to engineers, I also don't see why it shouldn't refill C4 as well.

To be unable to pop a refill in the enemy base while using C4 on the MCT. Engineers would be overpowering to destroy bases. They are unable to now and with the refill (personal use) they would, if C4's are also replennished (2 C4's total --> 1 C4 = 50% refill and enough to destroy that last 20% off a building)

Another reason NOT to refill C4's is because it's easier to devide ammo into 5 uses of 10%

[yosh56]

If it isn't tied directly to engineers, I also don't see why it shouldn't refill C4 as well.

To be unable to pop a refill in the enemy base while using C4 on the MCT. Engineers would be overpowering to destroy bases. They are unable to now and with the refill (personal use) they would, if C4's are also replennished (2 C4's total --> 1 C4 = 50% refill and enough to destroy that last 20% off a building)

Another reason NOT to refill C4's is because it's easier to devide ammo into 5 uses of 10%

Again, if it's not an engineer ability I don't see it being an issue.

Depends which idea we're talking about here. The idea from the OP suggest it wouldn't even be completely feasible to plant a beacon inside the enemy base where they could just kill you and reap its benefits.

Referring to using the more Planetside-ish box idea, I see that being bit more of a problem, but still only if it were tied to engineers themselves. If it isn't theirs, then they'd have to bring a 2nd infantry there to throw another timed C4 on the MCT anyway.

[boxes]

I love this idea, but it will only make sense if this was something Engies/Techs/Hotties could only do, simply because they are the only support classes in the game.

Ammo resupplies should replace remote C4s as Truxa mentioned, and could also be used by enemies (supposing it's something that is dropped on the floor for people to use, and not "given to"). This way these classes will lose a lot in their offensive capabilities in exchange to further enhance their support roles.

Technically snipers are support classes, they just happen to be fairly good at CQC in Ren if you have the reflexes for it.

But seriously, engineers are already useful enough. How many people do you see use an officer after the first 5 minutes of the game? Not many at all. Now how many run with a Hoty/Tech using a carbine? A helluva lot more. If it's a map with a tib-silo then it's a Hoty with a tib weapon that can basically negate the point of using anything other than a sniper or a PIC. A tech with a sidearm is both combat efficient, a building destroyer, and can do anything on the field. There's almost no reason to choose a tier 1/2 infantry unit, except the SBH for obvious reasons.

Distribute SOME power, sheesh.

Getting rid of your remotes makes a huge difference in what you can do offensively. You can no longer destroy buildings by yourself, cause quick damage to vehicles, and your sidearm is your only weapon you can use to defend yourself against other infantry.

Engies/Techs/Hotties are again, the support classes, and it'll only make sense if they are the ones distributing ammo to all the other classes that are made to KILL, including snipers.

Officers, Mcfarland, and Chems aren't seen as often later in the game because the other classes are obviously more effective choices in dealing with both infantry and armor. These three classes are really meant to give your team an edge in the early infantry fights.

Tib weapons are trash against air targets and heavy armor. The range of those weapons are quite limited too, which is where the other advanced classes other than the ones mentioned above come in to play, and are more fitted to KILL for your team.

And to help them out, Engies/Techs/Hotties provide them both health and ammunition in the middle of a battlefield, and perhaps poking the enemy with whatever sidearm they are holding.

[yosh56]

Getting rid of your remotes makes a huge difference in what you can do offensively. You can no longer destroy buildings by yourself, cause quick damage to vehicles, and your sidearm is your only weapon you can use to defend yourself against other infantry.

I'll preface this with "You can kill a building with 2 timed C4s and a Tib rifle."

And again that may be an issue if we went with a Battlefield/Planetside style of refilling ammo, and then tied it to the engineer. If it required a different class entirely, wasn't an instantaneous drop, and could be stolen by an errant soldier/SBH then refilling mid-field wouldn't be much of an issue at all.

Going on the original idea that almost seems to have been forgotten, if an Officer and a Hotwire made it into the back of a base rigged a building, and were able to have Nod not notice a beacon (think smoke beacons from the original CnC) then I don't think it'd be that huge of a deal for remotes to get refilled. That'd just be extended oversight on Nod's end and if they don't stop them from reaching another building, that's further failure to defend. On GDI's end it would have required at least 2 people working together, and full exploitation of bad defence.

Engies/Techs/Hotties are again, the support classes, and it'll only make sense if they are the ones distributing ammo to all the other classes that are made to KILL, including snipers.

I used to believe engineers were support classes, then I took a tib silo, grabbed a flechette gun and realised I could beat anything that wasn't 1000 credits, put more pressure on a Sakura than Patch's weapon (irony), win vs. any free infantry, and fight light vehicles. When sidearms are actual sidearms, I'll believe engineers are support classes. That made sense in OldRen, it no longer flies as a valid argument in X.

Tib weapons are trash against air targets and heavy armor. The range of those weapons are quite limited too, which is where the other advanced classes other than the ones mentioned above come in to play, and are more fitted to KILL for your team.

And to help them out, Engies/Techs/Hotties provide them both health and ammunition in the middle of a battlefield, and perhaps poking the enemy with whatever sidearm they are holding.

The flechette gun is actually about as effective as the auto rifle against aircraft...and the auto rifle isn't exactly trash against aircraft. The only thing Engineers can't do with side arms is hit aircraft from very far away. Mobius also can't hit Aircraft from very far away...nor Patch...or quite a few other infantry. They all do decent damage to light armour however. Mobius obviously can kill an air unit in one clip if they're close, but he's 1000 credits and still can just get kited to death by an Apache. Honestly, calling any infantry weapon but those built specifically for AA out on their lack of ability to kill aircraft is a bit of a useless point. The range on the tib weapons also isn't that much worse than the other automatic weapons in the game.

I would say the only thing engineers can't do, other than snipe obviously, is fight heavy armour, but considering engineers are the usual cause of Mammoth tank deaths....

Hell...ever used the heavy pistol? You can rip through over 130 points on heavy armour, reload and still have time to keep tanks alive beside you.

Why exactly would the engineer need anymore power? They already have a monopoly on everything that is support and base-defence (remote C4 and instant refill). They can capture buildings, and they can solo structures quietly. In the end, the objective is to destroy the enemy base.

Back on topic:

I say nay to the Battlefield/Engineer ammo box. Ammo boxes aren't CnC's style, but we've had supply/reinforcement beacons since Tiberian Dawn.

[boxes]

I'll preface this with "You can kill a building with 2 timed C4s and a Tib rifle."....I say nay to the Battlefield/Engineer ammo box. Ammo boxes aren't CnC's style, but we've had supply/reinforcement beacons since Tiberian Dawn.

Well I can't argue against engie classes being too strong, which is why I think all sidearms should be nerfed or doubled the price (x1.5 for tib weapons + slight nerf).

Tib weapons projectiles have rather long travel times, which affects your accuracy against air at a certain range. The damage you deal if you do hit air isn't enough to make a difference. A team is way better off using 1K classes to deal with them.

How about something else. Make the supply beacon something purchasable from the items section for like ~100-200 creds. This way, every class is able to have one, and since it should be in the 4th weapon slot, remotes would be removed for engie classes.

[yosh56]

I thought about just using it as a buyable item, and it makes a little bit of sense. The issue I'm seeing here is that there are a total of of 18 actual unique classes in Renegade (10 overlapping and 8 unique), yet only 2 have anything beyond their weapon that makes them actually worth buying...and both of them are on Nod (Chem trooper and the SBH). I don't think attaching unique items to classes can really do anything but add some variety to the game, and give snipers reason to focus on classes other than Hotwires/Techs and other snipers when the enemy's Bar/HON dies.

Besides, they already have models for the health and armour pickups, may as well stop letting them collect dust.