Orca hellfire missiles auto-explode after ~10 meters?!

[Aircraftkiller]

If we're going to use logic, bullets don't travel at light speed. So you'd have to try hitting an Apache/Orca with travel time factored in. Try doing that without missing every shot. That's the primary reason nobody uses AM rifles against helicopters in real life. That's the reason why these exist:

As far as helicopters are concerned right now, they're borderline useless. Easily destroyed, slow, not maneuverable in the slightest, and basically just a waste of 900 credits. I'd be completely thrilled to see rockets be a viable counter in all instances to airborne units, including Nod SAM Sites and the GDI AGT - in addition to rocket soldiers, MRLS, Mammoth Tanks, Stealth Tanks, and any other rocket-armed unit. I'm not against machine guns doing damage to them either. I just don't see any gameplay balance or logical sense in a primarily anti-infantry unit being the boss counter to helicopters.

[sdsz11111]

Range is for balance.

In Ren, Orca counters tank counters sniper counters orca. However in Rex-X, orca is no longer that good vs tank. It became clumsy, close range and hard to hit high speed targets.

[Truxa]

The only good thing that came of having grossly overpowered sniper rif... I'm not even going to finish that sentence. It's making it sound like being able to damage air units with sniper rifles makes sense at all. Let's rephrase: The only good thing that came out of Westwood's sloppy air unit implementation was that there was a steep learning curve to flying anything in Renegade. I quickly learned how to destroy many 1k snipers at a time by flying alongside the wall next to the road and praying there wasn't anyone watching from the opposite side of the map with another 1k character. I'd then hide under the bridge above the Tiberium field and repair any damage that I took while standing in the field to see if SBH were approaching, then I'd push the Orca/Apache into the roof of the bridge to have the camera clip into it so I could see exactly where the 1k snipers were standing. I'd fly through the gap in front of the field, come up behind them, and either gun them down or land on top of them before they could react.

It didn't always work, but when it did, I'd rack up many kills in the game and never want for credits. The fact that I had to avoid actually *playing* the fucking game, and instead focus on the bridge campers so I could live for more than a half second is a testament to how broken Renegade's game mechanics were - and I find it obnoxious that we're seeing the same gameplay mistakes perpetuated here in the successor.

I partially agree and partially disagree.

It's part of the tactics to be honest, do not buy aircraft (if you think they are too weak) before the enemy is deprived of the 1k characters (by destroying HoN/Barracks) because when that happens, aircraft are suddenly a major pain in the ass especially when buffed (you didnt want the infantry to easily shoot the aircraft, so normal soldiers shouldnt be able to either!)

It's the same thing with non-flying maps, like the map "Field". You do not buy weak vehicles to take the field, you only buy them after you've taken the field to finish the attack.

It's a matter of WHEN you buy certain vehicles that makes them good or bad.

In the case of "Walls: Flying" first priority should be either infantry buildings or vehicle buildings with an early rush. In case it worked, you adapt your next strategy accordingly. This makes the game more versatile!

And what about the transport helicopters? If standard characters have a hard time already killing those, it would be even harder after what you proposed! Opening the door to many transport rushes untill a team finally caves in by not 100% defending (or beating their rushes by doing a more efficient job)

Aircraft are fine as they are, but I do think the Orca needs a small adjustment as it is not up to par with an Apache.

Apache has way more missiles and needs 2 missile bursts (plus the extra machine gun fire) to kill an orca, while the orca needs more than 3! (somehow the orcas missiles are not locking on as well as the apaches)

And the range of Orca missiles aren't reaching as far as the Apaches.

[Aircraftkiller]

You're misunderstanding my point.

Snipers are anti-infantry. That's their role in C&C. Rifle soldiers are anti-everything, except in the RTS where they can't hit airborne units unless modified to do so. I don't care about rifle infantry shooting anything in the game and dealing damage to it. They're weak and easily dispatched, and they don't have a range that allows them to shoot helicopters from huge distances without fear of retribution.

Units have counters and balances. Rockets should always be the primary anti-vehicle weapon - especially against aircraft. Sniper rifles don't fall into that category. It gives them far too much power on the battlefield. I've already explained my position over the past several pages - I suggest you re-read my points again as I'm thoroughly uninterested in rehashing it.

[IMBALISK]

But, but.. ORCAS CAN FLY!

That is the only reason you see apaches and orcas in the game. New players buy them cause well... they want to FLY!!!