Mining 101: How not to screw your team over with prox mines

[ABJECT_SELF]

Proximity mines. They do the least damage of any bomb and are only carried by one character per team, yet they are arguably the most important weapon in the entire game. They're your last, best deterrent against a group of squirmy engineers sneaking into your refinery and smothering that MCT in C4. So wouldn't it be great if you could cover every square inch of your base in SBH-killing prox mines?

Well, you can't. Planting proximity mines effectively requires a great deal of planning, strategy and situational awareness, and if you don't know what you're doing you could actually create a dire weak point in your team's defenses.

Simply put, if you don't know how to mine, don't do it. But if you want to know how to mine, this guide will help turn you from a dope into a defender.

Mining 101: How Not to Screw Your Team Over with Prox Mines.

Watch the Minelimit!

This is the single most important aspect of prox mining. You have a limited "budget", or number of mines you can plant per map. The exact number varies by server, but most servers default to a maximum of 30 mines. Once this minelimit is reached, every additional mine planted completely erases the oldest mine. This is the most common mistake I see new players and even veterans make, and sadly the most fatal, since planting too many mines can completely undo your earlier work or the work of your teammates.

Before you think of placing proximity mines, look at the minelimit tally at the bottom of your screen. If the minelimit is at maximum, don't even bother. If the minelimit is not at maximum, but is ticking upwards, then someone else is already mining and you should let them do their task. Make sure only one person in your base is mining at a time, as this reduces the risk of overmining.

If you spot a teammate overmining, politely remind him to stop and search for any mines missing from your buildings. Depending on how stretched you are for mines, you may need to remine the base entirely. Unfortunately, with the way mines work now, replacing mines in one door can erase mines in another.

(BTW devs it would be great if we could disarm team mines for this purpose so that we would only have to disarm poorly placed mines instead of completely redoing the whole place)

Mine to protect your buildings, not your whole base!

Let's make one thing perfectly clear: You cannot keep the enemy out of your base entirely with prox mines. There is no way to effectively stop SBHs from sneaking into your base or engie-loaded APCs from driving through your front door, so do not plant a line of 20 mines in front of your base's gate or around your tunnels.

I've actually had some players heatedly defend mining tunnels and base entrances, so here's the issues with that tactic. For one, the areas just outside your base or within your tunnels are magnitudes safer for enemies to hang out than anywhere within your base, which means an enemy engineer can gleefully disarm each and every mine, getting a boatload of points while silently punching a massive hole in your defenses. Secondly, there is always another way into the base. Did you mine up the underground tunnel in Walls. An SBH can walk right through the front gate and nuke your WF. Did you make a fine line of mines covering the front of your base in Whiteout? Shame that won't stop those chinooks and APCs from pouring in.

About 80% of the time I've been able to infiltrate and destroy a building solo, it's because somebody on the opposing team planted a bunch of mines in the back entrance or tunnels but left the buildings dry. As a Hotwire or Technician, I can disarm a few mines well out of view of the enemy team and walk right into the Hand of Nod without setting off a single explosion.

Three or Four per Door!

Mining effectively means mining your buildings! Your back entrances, ramps, and front entrances of each building take priority, in that order. You'll want to plant 3-4 mines per building entrance, minelimit permitting, and focus on entrances that are out of your team's direct line of sight in base. This means that in a map like Walls, it's better to plant mines in the rear-facing doors of your Power Plant than the front door of your Weapons Factory.

There are some maps where it's worth leaving certain building entrances completely exposed so long as you can mine your weaker spots. I wouldn't waste mines on a building entrance that's covered by the AGT when I've got stealth units sneaking around the ref.

Watch for Mines Going Off or Being Disarmed

This is another reason why watching the mine limit is so important. If the mine count at the bottom of the screen starts to tick down, there are only two possible explanations: Some bozo from the other team tripped over your mines, or some techie is in your base disarming them. Either case, when you notice your mine count dropping and/or hear explosions, check your base pronto! Look for the missing mines and replace them right away, and check the building for any engies or stealth units hiding inside. A common trick for infiltrators is to bring along a soldier who can throw himself into a group of mines while the real demolition men walk over the scorch marks.

In this way, mines are the closest you have to a base alarm. If a mine gets set off in your base, go on alert until you know the threat has been nullified.

DO NOT use prox mines as offensive weapons!

A lot of times when I go head to head with an enemy Technician, he'll forget whipping out a pistol or remote mines and toss prox mines at me while trying to run away. In some cases, this is a good way to make a getaway, but most of the time it's just dumb. Any mines this guy threw that don't hit me can immediately be disarmed for points. Plus, if his team is at minelimit, this techie just erased three or four mines somewhere in his base.

Even on maps where you don't need to use all your mines (like Field), it's generally a bad idea to throw mines in enemy territory. Sure you might snag a kill on a reckless Havoc here and there, but more often then not your just feeding points to the enemy team. I remember one match where an enemy Hotwire spent the entire game trying to keep my team's rear tunnel entrance mined in an attempt to box us in. I just sat there on the other end of the door, disarming each mine and netting hundreds of points for my team without firing a shot.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Guest

[omega79]

I would say those are good ground rules to follow BUT always keep the circumstances in mind.

like on goldrush, you better not mine the bar you better mine the bridge (including the rails) and that rock where SBH jump into the river ...

but you always have to stay around there, that wil give GDI a very high chance to win.

same in field, better mine the tunnel exit (not inside) between bar and ref ... and the agt

on nod sidde mine the tunnel exit at ref, the ob and the hon

on Walls I tend to leave the pp completely without mines, and mine weak spots around/inside ref + wf stairs with around 20 mines and leave the rest to someone else (or on nod the same with HON and REF)

But there is one thing that is very importand i believe ...

IF you start to mine then please stay a defender, it does not make sense to mine

and then 3 minutes later buy a tank and leave the base.

It is okay to change to offensive if you played a while defender and you learned about the current enemies and their playstyle or if the game is drasticly to your teams favour ...

but at the start, place mines, keep checking your mines, repair buildings, patrol the base with changing ways

Edited March 18, 2014 by Guest

[TP|himselfXD]

I really hope people read this and I agree with omega that some maps do differ in strategic mining.

[ehh]

3-4 mines per door?

[omega79]

it is true, you need at least 4 mines each door you mine ...

[HaTe]

You can also use mines offensively quite a bit if you're a skilled player. Just be sure that it's in an an enemy's building and your timed c4s are on the MCT first. Then mine the door (or closest PT to the door -depending on the building) that the enemy is the most likely to come in on.

On walls ground it was always best to mine the front and tunnels as GDI, so long as there was 20+ people in-game. Walls_flying you were better off mining the top of doors as GDI. That was in Renegade though.

[RoundShades]

Gen-nanigans: One thing you can do for mildly risky or teamhampering terms, is lay a few mines along enemy mines in tunnels. Especially field, and especially if they mine mid tunnel for some reason.

If they check one for team status, it is usually the closest one to them, so mine a few in the middle past the first 2, and when they see green they will prance on by then spontaneously combust. Nets kills fairly often you wouldn't believe, only downside is it costs minelimit and if full might cost teammates mines.

I also endorse using them to cover escape. If you are at 13 health, that enemy will chase you into the base defences if you let them, so lay mines backpedalling and/or as turning corner, if anything then to kill/lose them.

[TheGroundsKeeper]

Imo the problem lies in the ridicilous low minecap most games have. Nothing more frustrating that seeing your mines dissapear shortly after you put them down. Especially on mapswith no guardtowers.

The best servers are with a serious minecap 60+ pr side. It gives possibilities to do some amazing minetricks. Gives Les sbh-nuke crap aswell.

[omega79]

dealing with the minelimit is part of the game, if your team doesnt get it straight ... probably a bad team

i think a minelimit of 30 to 40 is perfect, more is just crap because you can totaly mine anything ...

handeling your limited resources is always the key (same for vechlimit)

mining the tunnels on field in an offensive way can be handy aswell ...

if your team is dominating the tankbattle you can mine the tunnels to keep

the infantery in the nodbase ... if they lost hand the remaining higher characters

are very carefull and stuck to the base ... even if soldiers suicide to clear the mines

they never can be sure that the tunnel will stay clear

i think it is a raw guidline in the startingpost, for those who are very new to the game.

later on you have to learn to adapt to the match process and develop advanced strategies.

[Crab]

In the event a building gets destroyed, make sure to remine the entire base again, going over the mine limit to erase older and now useless mines, as 8 prox mines on your destroyed power plant won't do any good.

The fewer buildings you have left, the more mines you can place per entrance. I played a match on Walls where the only Nod building left was the airstrip, so I had placed 15 mines on the entrance and stretching out towards the MCT, and the remaining 15 mines around the structure and on it's ramp to deter beacon planters.

[Letty]

A few points:

- 3 proximity mines is absolutely not enough. 4 is still too few in most cases (a walking advanced engineer or SBH will still be left alive after 4 proximities). Always go for at least 5 proximities on the back entrances that you need to prevent the enemy from slipping in to. I'd recommend 6 proximities, which will prevent an advanced engineer from disarming one and setting off the rest and (hopefully) a SBH team from spreading the damage across themselves then running in. Cut mines from entrances that experience heavy traffic to do this.

- Proximity mines stacked ontop of each other deal less damage for some reason. I don't know exactly why, but don't have them touching each other. Aforementioned SBH/advanced engineers can easily survive 5 proximities stacked ontop of each other.

- On maps like Field (or Under if/when we get it), proximities should primarily be used in the tunnel to deny the enemy entrances. Place a few in HoN/WF/AGT, but save the 20 or so left over for the tunnel. If you can get a decent minefield going across even a single enemy entrance into the tunnel you will massively help your team and hurt the enemy in so many ways.

[HaTe]

For your last point Letty; probably only a good idea in marathon. In aow it could just give the opposing team free points and credits if you don't have someone covering them at all times.

[DoctorB0NG]

For your last point Letty; probably only a good idea in marathon. In aow it could just give the opposing team free points and credits if you don't have someone covering them at all times.

The only place that needs to be mined in Field is right next to the tib and bar where nukes can be placed and right next to the tib and strip where ions can be placed. Place the mines where they can't be disarmed without being in the LoS of the ob or AGT.

[RoundShades]

For your last point Letty; probably only a good idea in marathon. In aow it could just give the opposing team free points and credits if you don't have someone covering them at all times.

The only place that needs to be mined in Field is right next to the tib and bar where nukes can be placed and right next to the tib and strip where ions can be placed. Place the mines where they can't be disarmed without being in the LoS of the ob or AGT.

If your team has control of the tunnel and intend to camp it anyway, placing some in the tunnel isn't bad. It can't be disarmed without taking ramjet to the face, so I don't see how it does anything except help your team hold mid tunnel if pushed back by buying time/thinning out the push.

[HaTe]

For your last point Letty; probably only a good idea in marathon. In aow it could just give the opposing team free points and credits if you don't have someone covering them at all times.

The only place that needs to be mined in Field is right next to the tib and bar where nukes can be placed and right next to the tib and strip where ions can be placed. Place the mines where they can't be disarmed without being in the LoS of the ob or AGT.

If your team has control of the tunnel and intend to camp it anyway, placing some in the tunnel isn't bad. It can't be disarmed without taking ramjet to the face, so I don't see how it does anything except help your team hold mid tunnel if pushed back by buying time/thinning out the push.

Again, it depends on whether or not it is marathon or AOW. In marathon mode, you can afford to mine the tunnels all you want on Field usually. In AOW mode, it's usually best to just leave the vulnerable sections of the base mined (ref hop, ref run, AGT/Ob, Hon, WF back, etc).

[ehh]

back wf isnt really needed, unless in smaller games i guess and its still uncommon it'd be useful

i prefer to have 2 sets of mines for the agt and ref hop.

[HaTe]

with 35 you really shouldn't be hitting the limit on Field unless you're constantly mining tunnels anyway

[Letty]

For your last point Letty; probably only a good idea in marathon. In aow it could just give the opposing team free points and credits if you don't have someone covering them at all times.

First reason: Fuck points, who gives a shit? Stupid mechanic that ruins the game.

Second reason: Field is such a small map that you will have someone covering them at all times. At the very least the miner will cover them and on any populated server you'll have plenty of people running through.

Controlling the tunnels is amazingly useful in making a siege successful. No one stealing the silo, no one organizing gunner/rocket launcher/chem trooper rushes, no one flanking your tanks and killing the engineers repairing them. On the flip side it makes all of those actions laughably easy for your own team.

[NodCommander]

Loving the guide! I really do hate people who seem to think that proximity C4s are the same as Battlefield AT mines!

[HaTe]

I give a shit about points if I'm playing aow...because...you know, they win you the game...

[Letty]

I give a shit about points if I'm playing aow...because...you know, they win you the game...

Then you might as well say that beacons should never be used, flame/mammoth/medium tank rushes should never be attempted, and Stealth tanks and all flying vehicles are right out, because they give the enemy team too many points if they fail. If you succumb to the tyranny of points then the game goes to shit. It's a fact. Idiots who think they've won because they've abused the score system (which has more holes than swiss cheese) are the cancer that ruins games.

[HaTe]

I give a shit about points if I'm playing aow...because...you know, they win you the game...

Then you might as well say that beacons should never be used, flame/mammoth/medium tank rushes should never be attempted, and Stealth tanks and all flying vehicles are right out, because they give the enemy team too many points if they fail. If you succumb to the tyranny of points then the game goes to shit. It's a fact. Idiots who think they've won because they've abused the score system (which has more holes than swiss cheese) are the cancer that ruins games.

Clearly you don't play competitvely.

A successful beacon means 750+ points, plus the enemy doesn't get to use that structure. A disarmed beacon gives that team 300 points. So no, you shouldn't plant a beacon unless you know it has a good chance of succeeding or distracting the enemy for some other sort of attack. In marathon you just place that fucker whenever you want, because there is no negative consequences to being unsuccessful - you can just keep trying.

So I'll personally play the more competitive gamemode that truly has consequences. I'll let people like you play in the game mode that noobs go to to learn the game because their actions hardly even really matter.

But hey, all I did was point out that mining is different based on which gamemode you're going to be playing - no need to get all offensive because there's 2 gamemodes and your post only took 1 into consideration.

[Krose]

On field as Nod I prefer to mine buildings. ions are easy to defend against if your camping with a tech by the airstrip. You put 5 in refinery because hotwires can rush refinary easily somehow with Obelisk abuse. also Gdi tends to be more field advantageous and Mining the front of hon and obelisk reduce the risk of apc rushes. If Gdi really seems to be pushing from field with rushes Ill even mine air entrance and back of hon since apcs can go there as well if theres two or three of them. If not the extra ten mines get dumped by airstrip tunnel i guess to stop ions

[Letty]

I give a shit about points if I'm playing aow...because...you know, they win you the game...

Then you might as well say that beacons should never be used, flame/mammoth/medium tank rushes should never be attempted, and Stealth tanks and all flying vehicles are right out, because they give the enemy team too many points if they fail. If you succumb to the tyranny of points then the game goes to shit. It's a fact. Idiots who think they've won because they've abused the score system (which has more holes than swiss cheese) are the cancer that ruins games.

Clearly you don't play competitvely.

A successful beacon means 750+ points, plus the enemy doesn't get to use that structure. A disarmed beacon gives that team 300 points. So no, you shouldn't plant a beacon unless you know it has a good chance of succeeding or distracting the enemy for some other sort of attack. In marathon you just place that fucker whenever you want, because there is no negative consequences to being unsuccessful - you can just keep trying.

So I'll personally play the more competitive gamemode that truly has consequences. I'll let people like you play in the game mode that noobs go to to learn the game because their actions hardly even really matter.

But hey, all I did was point out that mining is different based on which gamemode you're going to be playing - no need to get all offensive because there's 2 gamemodes and your post only took 1 into consideration.

All you did was point out that if you care about points you have to play like an idiot. Which is fine. Please play like an idiot in your own games and stop shitting up mine though with retarded strategies that completely go against the main point of the game, which is to destroy the enemy base. thx.

[RoundShades]

Whats that? AOW is for skill players and Marathon is for n00bs?

Pfft, they are both "the game", I don't see why "hating the score system", which one could argue is broken in this game and is in no way like or better than the score system in Renegade Classic, is such a newbie scrub loser thing. I hate the score just because, if I play this game, I want to reach a conclusion. I simply do not want to play for 35 minutes and the game may cut off during a good attack or when someone is just making a comeback and dictate score.

I mean, sometimes I feel the obvious winner got the higher score, sometimes I feel the teams were balanced and the winner exploited the point system. For instance, beacons, if some guys on my team planted 10 random beacons and they turtled, why should I lose because of it? Am I a retard for playing with randoms, should I just go play Planetside 2 if I am not going to get a full 12 man team together everyday I want to play?

No, I am just going to play marathon, because when I play I am either going to kill a building and win a game or I am going to lose a building and lose a game. Ain't nobody's jibber jabber guna stop me. Retort?

[HaTe]

If you cannot handle the extra factor that is the time limit then you likely play for fun, not to win. And if you play to win and play marathon, then you're playing casually. Which is fine and all - all I'm saying is that I prefer a timed game because it is more competitive and I find it extremely ironic that you're trying to discredit it as a bad way of playing. It's so much faster paced and consequences matter. Which is why all of the "pro" players prefer aow, and which is why you've never heard of a clanwar, funwar, lobby war, or community war playing marathon.

[Sleepyjo2]

If you cannot handle the extra factor that is the time limit then you likely play for fun, not to win. And if you play to win and play marathon, then you're playing casually. Which is fine and all - all I'm saying is that I prefer a timed game because it is more competitive and I find it extremely ironic that you're trying to discredit it as a bad way of playing. It's so much faster paced and consequences matter. Which is why all of the "pro" players prefer aow, and which is why you've never heard of a clanwar, funwar, lobby war, or community war playing marathon.

Marathon matches have different dynamics. The removal of the time limit means you can no longer win by score, IE a 30 minute siege will get you no where. People need to understand that you have to be aggressive on marathon servers, which is part of the problem. People *don't* understand this, so the matches takes ages to finish. Take the 5 mammoth tanks you have firing ineffectively on that Hand of Nod and move into the base to kill the obelisk, or take an apc or two full of people and somewhat suicidally rush a building.

You don't have to be so aggressive in standard servers because you *can* win by time limit, so people take those tactics and those strategies into a marathon server and waste everyone's time.

For future reference, all of the "pro" players prefer AoW because it's the standard used for pretty much any competitive shooter, timed matches, not because it's an innately better mode. The "pro" players understand how to get things done in Marathon matches just as well as AoW matches.

Neither mode is better or worse, or more competitive, when played by people who know how to handle each mode. This entire discussion also has basically nothing to do with the OP.

[HaTe]

If you cannot handle the extra factor that is the time limit then you likely play for fun, not to win. And if you play to win and play marathon, then you're playing casually. Which is fine and all - all I'm saying is that I prefer a timed game because it is more competitive and I find it extremely ironic that you're trying to discredit it as a bad way of playing. It's so much faster paced and consequences matter. Which is why all of the "pro" players prefer aow, and which is why you've never heard of a clanwar, funwar, lobby war, or community war playing marathon.

Marathon matches have different dynamics. The removal of the time limit means you can no longer win by score, IE a 30 minute siege will get you no where. People need to understand that you have to be aggressive on marathon servers, which is part of the problem. People *don't* understand this, so the matches takes ages to finish. Take the 5 mammoth tanks you have firing ineffectively on that Hand of Nod and move into the base to kill the obelisk, or take an apc or two full of people and somewhat suicidally rush a building.

You don't have to be so aggressive in standard servers because you *can* win by time limit, so people take those tactics and those strategies into a marathon server and waste everyone's time.

For future reference, all of the "pro" players prefer AoW because it's the standard used for pretty much any competitive shooter, timed matches, not because it's an innately better mode. The "pro" players understand how to get things done in Marathon matches just as well as AoW matches.

Neither mode is better or worse, or more competitive, when played by people who know how to handle each mode. This entire discussion also has basically nothing to do with the OP.

A 30 minute siege gets you credits from pointwhoring, credits from harvester dumps, and doesn't allow the enemy to get those advantages. Some people just *don't* understand this and try to just do rush after rush which all ultimately fail because the enemy has by then regained the field and have retaken the credits race.

So these people aren't being anti-aggressive; they're just aware of the advantages they are maintaining over the enemy by creating a successful siege. Short term and long term, but especially long term because the game could potentially last many hours.

I never said it was a better mode. It is more competitive though. Add in a whole new factor that you have to consider and of course it is going to make the game more competitive. Marathon mode ignores the presence of points and therefore simplifies the game for people. That doesn't mean one is better than the other - all it means is that one is more casual and the other is more competitive. Pro players (for future reference, I've been considered one of these players for many years in renegade and other mp games) like the faster paced games. Aow is faster paced.

[Sleepyjo2]

A 30 minute siege gets you credits from pointwhoring, credits from harvester dumps, and doesn't allow the enemy to get those advantages. Some people just *don't* understand this and try to just do rush after rush which all ultimately fail because the enemy has by then regained the field and have retaken the credits race.

It also kills no buildings, which is the only goal you have in Marathon. If you kill no buildings, you accomplish nothing. The defending team needs much less money than the attacking team, particularly in the fairly common GDI siege example.

Pointwhoring is all well and good when you can win with points or have a reason to have 6,000 credits gaining interest.

[HaTe]

A 30 minute siege gets you credits from pointwhoring, credits from harvester dumps, and doesn't allow the enemy to get those advantages. Some people just *don't* understand this and try to just do rush after rush which all ultimately fail because the enemy has by then regained the field and have retaken the credits race.

It also kills no buildings, which is the only goal you have in Marathon. If you kill no buildings, you accomplish nothing. The defending team needs much less money than the attacking team, particularly in the fairly common GDI siege example.

Pointwhoring is all well and good when you can win with points or have a reason to have 6,000 credits gaining interest.

So you accomplish nothing if you don't kill a building? Why bother killing enemies then? Because it helps you get to that goal. It's not just as simple as "kill buildings to win games." That's like saying basketball is "score baskets to win games." It's not that simple - you have to do the work to get there.

Pointwhoring isn't even pointwhoring if you're doing it to win the game. The only time it becomes pointwhoring is when the game is already won or lost and you continue to do it. In marathon, pointwhoring is more so credit farming. If you have plenty credits and continue to do it though, you're essentially just helping the other team by giving them repair credits.

[NodCommander]

Back to topic please, guys. The thread is about a guide to successful mining, not whichever game mode is for the pro and which is for the noobs.

[iovandrake]

Mining entrances doesn't stop apcs or chinooks. Those are highly visible vehicles though and your teammates should be reporting them coming and killing them. Mining the entrance of Walls (for example) isn't meant to kill directly.

Three major points about mining entrances

-----------------------------------------------------

1: It's meant to slow enemies at your entrance (hopefully). This creates opportunities for teammates running out to spot them.

2: It's meant to show them off when they run through. Mine explosions are not obvious enough like they were in old Ren. That needs to change because it was a buff for SBH that was totally unnecessary. When you see mines pop your front defenders (a good team should have those) should be killing whoever came through. On old Renegade I lost many SBH to Mobius hiding at the entrance. Mines contributed to my getting caught by the mobius either by hemming me through a narrower entrance around the mines or by me tripping them.

3: GDI loses more buildings due to SBH being in the base at large than from SBH sneaking into a building. This is a fact and only an idiot would deny it. Thanks for all the times you didn't mine the front on Walls, I love that when I'm SBH. You can have a mined entrance all you want. I'll be nuking your buildings while you're busy and unable to disarm them.

A simple fact that was ignored in this guide is that mining isn't simple no matter how elitist your view of it is. Different tactics require different mining strategies. Should you mine ramps? Yes? Well by your logic people can Chinook up to the top anyway so that's wasted mines (i disagree of course). If you are worried about mass SBH sneaking in and C4ing a MCT then you have a problem no matter what you do. It only takes 2 timed and well timed shots to the MCT to bring it down before anyone knows what hit it. So three SBH sneak into your defenseless base, one soaks up the proxies at the entrance and the others get the building. Well done your mines did nothing.

The only problem with mining the entrances of Walls or Islands is that Renegade X's mines are not obvious enough when they explode. I'd say that the 30 mine limit is also bad, but that's up to the server. If they want to give Nod a huge advantage they keep it at 30. 40 is a much more sensible limit in my opinion.

[RoundShades]

Actually, I agree on mines giving nod a sensible advantage, but actually, the mine limit showing on the UI gives mines a buff in visibility. The explosion was more obvious in Renegade. The fact you can see the mine limit go down instantaneously is more obvious than anything though, it is literally handwritten proof to check your base.

[Valor]

Problem seems to be that sbh are better in Ren X.

Larger maps = more places to hide (e.g. the cavern in Walls base)

Sprint = easier to juke enemies

Bloom/graphics = can't see sbh even when 1 foot away

Plus no more hearing footsteps or seeing random patches of dust being kicked up.

Make sbh more visible in general and especially when they are on fire from an exploded mine. I've noticed another problem is that explosions don't get rendered sometimes, this needs to be fixed.

[ehh]

suppose you could make it so sbh's suit flickers when sprinting i guess

[Tactix]

I can easily see SBHs when they are close to me, no problem at all..

But then again, I'm playing on low settings for best performance.

When you turn off all the flashy bling bling eyecandy, you get a distinct advantage.

[Tovias]

I would like some suggestions regarding how to mine HoN in maps where it has those side-stairs. It's like a god damn nightmare to watch over that building.

btw, sorry if it was already addressed, I just did a quick run throught the topic.

[Chrifister]

Mining is a complicated subject depending on your goals. Many factors affect where you mine and how many to place. Mining should be shared by many people as long as they all know the current mining strategy and they keep in communication with each other. It also doesn't hurt to have your team keep an eye on the mines and report when some are missing. Also, never place mines out of your line of sight. For example, when mining the back tunnels on Field, place them on the outside of the tunnel and not actually in the tunnel. Otherwise, enemies can defuse them or blow them without anybody noticing.

Each map has different mining strategies.

Islands

NOD - Keep most of the mines on the tunnels with some in the back of the refinery and HON. Your team should prevent people from coming in the front entrance. You just need to keep infantry from coming out of the tunnels.

GDI - Keep most of the mines on the tunnels with a line across the main base entrance. Your goal is to prevent SBH from getting in and keeping pesky infantry from coming out of your tunnels. The mines on the entrance are not enough to kill a SBH but will damage him and make him visible. Always keep an eye on the entrance. If your defenses are never breached, you can be the lone defender and your base will be a safe zone for repairing vehicles. Immediately report any breach in your mines to your team. The safe zone is now compromised and there could be many SBH with beacons in your base. Good players will recognize the danger of this and should join you to help defend.

Walls

NOD - Since GDI has the better armor and will usually have the field, or most of it, APCs are a real danger. A proactive team can keep infantry from sneaking in the tunnels so you should mine the entrances of buildings. Most APCs will drive around the back of the HON and head to the power plant or refinery. Mine these places. Also place some mines on the ramps on the HON.

GDI - Same goal as Islands. Keep a line of mines across the main entrance with a line of mines on each tunnel entrance. All mines should be visible at all times. DO NOT mine the actual tunnel itself as this is out of your line of sight. Mines should be at the entrance to the tunnels so you can see them go off and can quickly check the status of them with a glance. Also, if the mines are not in the tunnel, the enemy must show themselves to disarm them or run through them. GDI should be able to keep APCs away from the base so those main entrance mines are mostly a deterrent and early warning system for SBH.

Field

NOD - Only three places need to be mined: the front door of the HON, the obelisk, and the back tunnel by the airstrip. Put lots of mines on the HON as an APC will be destroyed by the obelisk but you can have four enemy infantry run in the door of the HON. Four or five in the obelisk is usually enough. The mines on the back tunnel is to prevent beacons and they need to be closely monitored.

GDI - Keep a lot of mines in the AGT and the rest on the back tunnel by the barracks. The AGT is deadly at killing infantry so the enemy will usually rush it first. The rest of the mines should be on the back tunnels to prevent beacons.

Mesa

NOD - Keep mines in the airstrip and obelisk and maybe some in the power plant.

GDI - Keep mines in the AGT, the back refinery door, the power plant, and the back war factory entrance. Most of the mines should be in the AGT.

I haven't played the other maps enough to give recommendations on them.

One thing that makes me laugh when I choose to defend sometimes is the ridiculous amount of infantry that will take over the tunnels on some maps. In Field for example, snipers will dominate the tunnels. Sometimes you can have a couple of good snipers from your team in there hassling the other team. This results in most of the other team trying to pointlessly gain control of the tunnels. With you mining and defending properly, this results in you and your two snipers keeping most of the other team occupied. This means your team takes the field and the advantage in the game.

[Snoipah]

On walls ground it was always best to mine the front and tunnels as GDI, so long as there was 20+ people in-game.

NOBODY LISTEN TO THIS MAN

Mining the entrance to the base is just asking for trouble. Only exceptions is when you have 50+ mine limit or you only have maybe one or two buildings still alive.

Any vehicle can simply drive over those and a good black hand team of 3 could just sacrafice one of them and then the two others could run in, walk into the nonmined building, place timed c4, then shoot at the MCT when the timed c4 will blow in 5 seconds.

Sure, mining the entrance would stop a lone stealth blackhand, but this game is about teamwork. If you want something without teamwork go play something like CoD or Halo, the fisherprice FPS games.

GDI - Same goal as Islands. Keep a line of mines across the main entrance with a line of mines on each tunnel entrance. All mines should be visible at all times. DO NOT mine the actual tunnel itself as this is out of your line of sight. Mines should be at the entrance to the tunnels so you can see them go off and can quickly check the status of them with a glance. Also, if the mines are not in the tunnel, the enemy must show themselves to disarm them or run through them. GDI should be able to keep APCs away from the base so those main entrance mines are mostly a deterrent and early warning system for SBH.

Oh wow, this thread is full of retards.

[HaTe]

On walls ground it was always best to mine the front and tunnels as GDI, so long as there was 20+ people in-game.

NOBODY LISTEN TO THIS MAN

Mining the entrance to the base is just asking for trouble. Only exceptions is when you have 50+ mine limit or you only have maybe one or two buildings still alive.

Any vehicle can simply drive over those and a good black hand team of 3 could just sacrafice one of them and then the two others could run in, walk into the nonmined building, place timed c4, then shoot at the MCT when the timed c4 will blow in 5 seconds.

Sure, mining the entrance would stop a lone stealth blackhand, but this game is about teamwork. If you want something without teamwork go play something like CoD or Halo, the fisherprice FPS games.

GDI - Same goal as Islands. Keep a line of mines across the main entrance with a line of mines on each tunnel entrance. All mines should be visible at all times. DO NOT mine the actual tunnel itself as this is out of your line of sight. Mines should be at the entrance to the tunnels so you can see them go off and can quickly check the status of them with a glance. Also, if the mines are not in the tunnel, the enemy must show themselves to disarm them or run through them. GDI should be able to keep APCs away from the base so those main entrance mines are mostly a deterrent and early warning system for SBH.

Oh wow, this thread is full of retards.

You're the reason competitive players quit renegade. Please play more and try to talk less. Thanks.

[ehh]

lol

[Terekhov]

I disagree with the convention of mining ramps first.

Mining is a complicated subject depending on your goals. Many factors affect where you mine and how many to place. Mining should be shared by many people as long as they all know the current mining strategy and they keep in communication with each other. It also doesn't hurt to have your team keep an eye on the mines and report when some are missing. Also, never place mines out of your line of sight. For example, when mining the back tunnels on Field, place them on the outside of the tunnel and not actually in the tunnel. Otherwise, enemies can defuse them or blow them without anybody noticing.

Each map has different mining strategies.

Pretty good post overall there, thanks for taking the time.

I have a couple notes/differences to add:

Walls

NOD - Since GDI has the better armor and will usually have the field, or most of it, APCs are a real danger. A proactive team can keep infantry from sneaking in the tunnels so you should mine the entrances of buildings. Most APCs will drive around the back of the HON and head to the power plant or refinery. Mine these places. Also place some mines on the ramps on the HON.

GDI - Same goal as Islands. Keep a line of mines across the main entrance with a line of mines on each tunnel entrance. All mines should be visible at all times. DO NOT mine the actual tunnel itself as this is out of your line of sight. Mines should be at the entrance to the tunnels so you can see them go off and can quickly check the status of them with a glance. Also, if the mines are not in the tunnel, the enemy must show themselves to disarm them or run through them. GDI should be able to keep APCs away from the base so those main entrance mines are mostly a deterrent and early warning system for SBH.

Assuming you meant Walls_Flying since that's the only one that exists atm (and the reference to HoN ramps)

GDI is wrong. The main entrance line is not maintainable, and sbhs can get through given a 10 second absence of hotwires. Even on 40-person servers, this can happen very often. The T-point in the tunnel, and the buildings (especially ref and power plant), are what should be mined as GDI. Ramps too if you have the mines.

A couple I'll add:

Lakeside

Nod: Nod *absolutely must* mine the airstrip, since hotwires seem magnetically attracted to it. Mine the front/back doors of the HON, and the windows. MAKE SURE to place your mines between each pair of windows, so that whichever window they jump in, they get hit. Mine the back of the ref, and if you have enough, the front is always nice too.

GDI: Lakeside is a pretty standard mining operation for GDI; just make sure you mine the doors, since infantry can climb the stairs and hop down from above (skipping the mines at the front entrance)

Goldrush

Nod: Pretty standard. You could try mining bridge if you have extra; otherwise, seems to me HON mines work just as well.

GDI: AGT is a must; now that NOD can't go swimming, the bridge is a must as a well. Mining the pp/bar instead of the bridge is a security hazard. If you have the mines, mine the back of ref. IMPORTANT: place 4-5 mines on the bridge between the crates, but the majority should go on the crates at either side. This keeps Nod from being able to disarm them which is a huge deterrent once they figure out what's going on.

Note: lack of defense against Harv-walking is a calculated risk here, but if you mine bridge instead of all the buildings, the guard towers will fire when people come across, giving you a clue. It also reduces the number of places you have to check when mines disappear to a nice small number: 2.

Patrolling in a hummer and having semi-intelligent team-mates (i.e. they communicate) is enough to keep the base safe with this setup. I've used this the last 4-5 pub games and not a single nuke/agt rush/ref sneak came close to success.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Guest

[Terekhov]

What do y'all think about mining the top/sides of entrances instead of the ground? I've generally found it useful, though sometimes (and if the spot requires enough mines) I'll put a couple on the ground just so people don't suicide through constantly out of ignorance and make me replace too many mines (Goldrush bridge)

[HaTe]

GDI is wrong. The main entrance line is not maintainable, and sbhs can get through given a 10 second absence of hotwires. Even on 40-person servers, this can happen very often. The T-point in the tunnel, and the buildings (especially ref and power plant), are what should be mined as GDI. Ramps too if you have the mines.

You mine building entrances on walls_flying (and a couple on the wf and ref ramps) and the base entrance on walls_ground as GDI. It is not complicated, and the only reason this gets screwed up ever is if people like yourself try to take away those mines by mining the buildings and thus taking away the mines at the entrances.

[Terekhov]

GDI is wrong. The main entrance line is not maintainable, and sbhs can get through given a 10 second absence of hotwires. Even on 40-person servers, this can happen very often. The T-point in the tunnel, and the buildings (especially ref and power plant), are what should be mined as GDI. Ramps too if you have the mines.

You mine building entrances on walls_flying (and a couple on the wf and ref ramps) and the base entrance on walls_ground as GDI. It is not complicated, and the only reason this gets screwed up ever is if people like yourself try to take away those mines by mining the buildings and thus taking away the mines at the entrances.

Considering Walls doesn't exist on the current version of Renegade X, I figured he meant Walls Flying and wrote as such (also notice the mention of 'HoN ramps' in his post - context, sir.) Edited my post to read 'Walls Flying' for clarity.

[HaTe]

GDI is wrong. The main entrance line is not maintainable, and sbhs can get through given a 10 second absence of hotwires. Even on 40-person servers, this can happen very often. The T-point in the tunnel, and the buildings (especially ref and power plant), are what should be mined as GDI. Ramps too if you have the mines.

You mine building entrances on walls_flying (and a couple on the wf and ref ramps) and the base entrance on walls_ground as GDI. It is not complicated, and the only reason this gets screwed up ever is if people like yourself try to take away those mines by mining the buildings and thus taking away the mines at the entrances.

Considering Walls doesn't exist on the current version of Renegade X, I figured he meant Walls Flying and wrote as such (also notice the mention of 'HoN ramps' in his post - context, sir.) Edited my post to read 'Walls Flying' for clarity.

Yeah that's why in my original post I said "in the original renegade."

[Terekhov]

You mine building entrances on walls_flying (and a couple on the wf and ref ramps) and the base entrance on walls_ground as GDI. It is not complicated, and the only reason this gets screwed up ever is if people like yourself try to take away those mines by mining the buildings and thus taking away the mines at the entrances.

Considering Walls doesn't exist on the current version of Renegade X, I figured he meant Walls Flying and wrote as such (also notice the mention of 'HoN ramps' in his post - context, sir.) Edited my post to read 'Walls Flying' for clarity.

Yeah that's why in my original post I said "in the original renegade."

I was responding to him, not you. He posted in the context of Renegade X, and that's how I responded. I'm not arguing with you about C&C Walls because I never posted about it.

[Chrifister]

Now now guys I don't usually make a distinction between Walls and Walls_Flying. I should have mentioned that those strategies are based on a number of assumptions:

-It is a large, full server. I only play on these servers. Smaller servers or less people can considerably change the mining strategy.

-On large, full servers, both teams should always have their vehicle limit used. A half decent team will be able to keep enemy aircraft and APCs from reaching your base with those vehicles and some ramjets. If your team are morons and the enemy vehicles can make it to your base, then again your mining strategy has to change.

-The existence of those secondary guard towers can change your mining as well. I never played on maps without them in the original Renegade. Really, who would build a GDI base close to a NOD base without a building that can detect stealth units?

-Your team's tactics can change your strategy. If they are rushers, then they will usually not have complete control of the field. This means enemy vehicles can make it to your base.

-And probably the most important factor is whether or not you will be actively guarding your mines. If you are not, then definitely mine buildings instead of entrances. Entrance mining is about laying down an early warning system but that system doesn't work if you are not watching it.

There is no one foolproof strategy for mining. Also remember that this game is a numbers game. Usually the more players on the offensive, the better your chances at winning. This is not always true but if you can limit your defenders to one or a small few and let the rest of the team go on the offensive, it boosts your chances. One defender holding off many SBH is good, many defenders holding off one or no SBH is bad, and equal numbers cancel each other out.

[Daxter]

hm the first post is good for new player but at some things i would be careful... in the od renegade we used to mine the whole entrance + tunnel on the map walls e.g. and it kinda worked to keep off the sbhs... the main problem we have have to endure in renegade x is that those mines are kinda weak... as a sbh you can destroy up to 3 mines before you die. and with 4 sbhs inside the base you can easily kill a building... and gdi cant really make use of the more players on field, cause the half team is afk , or just snipewhoring or just running around as a normal soldier . and if chopper flies in your base you did something wrong anyway... and 4 sbhs can also place 4 nukebacons making it impossible for you to save the building(s), with that, sbhs can avoid mines completely.

also it seems like a normal c4 can increase minelimit too (?). disabling your own mine with ya repgun would be of course awesome, but some stupid player might destroy your work with it too. i once had a player in my team who drove an apc and ALWAYS! drove over a nukebacon so we couldnt disarm it. we also couldnt destroy that apc cause it was in our team tz -.-. therefore we lost one building after another cause of that ass.

kinda unfair: on maps with orcas / apaches enabled you have to mine both doors of bar, not the opening cause you cna just climb on the bar and jump down to the doors of it... more mines gdi has to place...

would like to have a 50 minelimit on all servers and stronger mines.