Carbine is glitchy

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

I don't know about you, but this gun seems incomplete. The SMG works like a breeze, firing from the hip or using the sights feels god. Same thing with the Assault Rifle. You did a good job on those guns guys. I like the little video game buttons you put on them.

The Carbine is weird. The tracers look glitchy, and I seem to get better accuracy from hipfire than using scope. The recoil is glitchy too, the fucking gun seems like it has alot of loose screws, the thing is shaking itself apart as your firing it.

The Carbine still works though. Again, it's just a minor thing.

[Noodlesocks]

The sights on the carbine is a mess. I just don't bother. It's good enough without them =P

[SFJake]

Sights? Whats that? Anyone that uses sights cripples themselves anyway.

[Trev-MUN]

It shouldn't be like that, if they intend to have sights in the game.

[SFJake]

If they want sights to not be silly, it shouldn't slow you down. Otherwise they always will be.

[super_gsx]

Not to mention, the sound it makes is ridiculous.

[DarkEmissary]

I dont know why there are sights. In original Renegade, there were absolutely no sights except for the snipers, other than that it was hip fire only.

[Soldieroffate]

Sights aren't necessary in most instances unless you're a sniper trying to shoot at something half a mile away.

[iovandrake]

Using sights shouldn't slow you down as much as it does. I don't think it should be the same speed as firing from the hip though. Right now firing from the hip has very little disruption to your aim which should be fixed.

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

What the hell are you talking about? Sights are great to finish off someone if they are at 25% health or so.

- - -

I think sights are still useful. I at least THINK using sights minimizes recoil so you can land a couple more headshots on the target.

You use sights for split seconds at a time. Strafe like a bitch, jump too a bit, and when you get a good angle, hold sights for a sec and land accumulating headshots.

Then again, I'm actually not too sure if crouching, using sights, or jumping, walking, all affects recoil and accuracy.

If you crouch does recoil lessen? If you jump, does recoil increase?

It sure as FUCK should man.

[SFJake]

It absolutely shouldn't, guns should always have the same accuracy regardless of movement, there has been no worse sin in FPS gaming than that.

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

Ah so you are a quake fan then? Doom 1 person? Man I fucking HATE your church (not that I don't like doom or quake - fun games, man), and since I'm not part of it, its not a sin. Accuracy modifiers are not a sin. You should abandon your religion, those guys got you whipped.

To be honest, I HATE BUNNY HOPPING! WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT? Thats the gayest thing in the world when one wants the true feel of how humans use guns.

I could see a super human JUMPING 20 STORIES from the ground onto the top of a building, then pulling out a pistol aiming with one hand to shoot down a muther fucker 100s of ft. away trying to run from him. BUT THAT AINT THIS GAME MAN! Hopping around like a bunny ain't nearly as cool as that.

With this game we got regular jack off people who do know how to run, and use tanks. But regular jack offs don't bunny hop like retards, NO! They take cover, ALT + 7. Get on their stomachs and snipe people from under a rock for better accuracy and stealth.

That probably wont happen in this game. But this game DOES have scopes, sights. And you can crouch.

I'm really hoping there are accuracy modifiers in this game, unlike original renegade, where blue beams owned all, crouching was useless, and everyone was a rabbit.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Guest

[GatsuFox]

Ah so you are a quake fan then? Doom 1 person? Man I fucking HATE your church (not that I don't like doom or quake - fun games, man), and since I'm not part of it, its not a sin. You should abandon your religion

To be honest, I HATE BUNNY HOPPING! WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT? Thats the gayest thing in the world when one wants the true feel of how humans use guns.

I could see a super human JUMPING 20 STORIES from the ground onto the top of a building, then pulling out a pistol aiming with one hand to shoot down a muther fucker 100s of ft. away trying to run from him. BUT THAT AINT THIS GAME MAN!

With this game we got regular jack off people who do know how to run, and use tanks. But regular jack offs don't bunny hop like retards, NO! They take cover, ALT + 7. Get on their stomachs and snipe people from under a rock for better accuracy and stealth.

That probably wont happen in this game. But this game DOES have scopes, sights. And you can crouch.

I'm really hoping there are accuracy modifiers in this game, unlike original renegade, where blue beams owned all, crouching was useless, and everyone was a rabbit.

If you don't like complex combat mechanics then there are plenty of other (mediocre) games for you out there. Like Titanturd. Some of us actually like to USE our mouse to get a kill. I doubt you actually played Doom or Quake for more than an hour, so honestly you've never really "played" the games.

Protip: getting good at Quake will make you amazing at every other shooter.

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

What the fuck are you talking about? You got it backwards! Accuracy modifiers are complex, strafing with a & D combined with space bar, and aiming mouse is not.

Naw man, quake is boring. I like arcade games and all, and yeah I guess this is an arcade game.

So whats the point of the sights if there are no accuracy modifiers? Yeah, might as well just get rid of them.

PLAY SNIPER ELITE, the FIRST ONE. THAT IS A SICK GAME. TOTAL OPPOSITE OF ARCADE GAME. Bullet drop and everything.

My god man, complex? You are fucking WRONG. Sniper Elite is complex.

Like jesus christ dude, are you for real? Quake is the simplest game in the world, like halo. Like arcade.

And yes, I like those games. But I always thought renegade should have been more realistic, complex, so when it came out, its, wtf? This is quake. But better ;D

[SFJake]

I hate bunny hopping, too.

All I hate is "control" being taken away. I have a gun, I aim somewhere, it shoots there. I have the ability to move and jump, it shouldn't be changing my aim in any weird ways.

Making this overcomplex can just get annoying, and most games just go the opposite anyway -> like Call of Duty, they just remove possibilities instead of adding to it.

I hate when I have to fight the game to do those basic things and I hate when a game devolves into run, stop, ironsight, strafe superslowly and shoot at a very easy to aim target.

I don't know if you can "get" how I see it.

[R315r4z0r]

I don't think using sights should slow you down in Renegade X unless you're using a sniper scope.

Although the speed reduction doesn't really seem to hinder me much anyway.. I still don't think there should be a speed reduction at all. Most of the sights in this game take up a stupid amount of screen space, so you're already hindering yourself with your field of vision. I think it's worth the tradeoff for the slightly increased accuracy. You don't need the speed reduction.

As for why there is even an ADS feature at all... it's to provide familiarity to players who use them in other games. The way they are set up at the moment really doesn't give you much of a difference between using them and not using them. So if you're used to playing games that ADS a lot, you can do that. But people who are used to Renegade with just hipfire spray can do that as well.

But that brings me back to saying there shouldn't be a functionality difference between the two. That way it's balanced between both worlds and is comfortable to everyone at the same time.

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

I don't know if you can "get" how I see it.

Naw I get it. You want something in between a super realism macho, and a down right bunny hopping shiz fest.

- - -

It's not that control is taken away from you - it is that the game is no side scroller action game, It's a simulator

Sniper elite is a perfect infantry fighting game, except for the fact that you can't always be in fist person, and that there are no knives, there not enough physics and limb control so that in-game the character models can be seen and believed to be in actual hand to hand combat! Fuck me that would be impressive.

Apache air assault, the helicopter game is nigh complete representation of how attack choppers get used in real life.

All I hate is "control" being taken away. I have a gun, I aim somewhere, it shoots there. I have the ability to move and jump, it shouldn't be changing my aim in any weird ways.

See this ain't exactly weird. Unless you got the grip on yourself, your gun, your surroundings, unless you got a grip like fucking superman, or a space marine (WH40K FTW), jumping around is going to decrease your accuracy.

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

@R315r4z0r: I guess its technically possible to move at your personal top speed while gripping a gun, and aiming down it's sight.

But then aiming down sights would be completely superior to not.

They way its supposed to be is, when running and gunning, especially shooting full auto, accuracy should decrease. But, while taking precise aim with sights/scope, you can land shots easier, but you also become a more vulnerable target. Fair trade, no?

I like the assault rifle laser sight, I use it, it seems to work good.

Mind you, I'm no data chart making guru. I get drunk, stoned and high and play video games, but I got a good heart, so its all gud.

[GatsuFox]

What the fuck are you talking about? You got it backwards! Accuracy modifiers are complex, strafing with a & D combined with space bar, and aiming mouse is not.

Naw man, quake is boring. I like arcade games and all, and yeah I guess this is an arcade game.

So whats the point of the sights if there are no accuracy modifiers? Yeah, might as well just get rid of them.

PLAY SNIPER ELITE, the FIRST ONE. THAT IS A SICK GAME. TOTAL OPPOSITE OF ARCADE GAME. Bullet drop and everything.

My god man, complex? You are fucking WRONG. Sniper Elite is complex.

Like jesus christ dude, are you for real? Quake is the simplest game in the world, like halo. Like arcade.

And yes, I like those games. But I always thought renegade should have been more realistic, complex, so when it came out, its, wtf? This is quake. But better ;D

If Quake is so simple then how come it has maintained a professional tournament base for over 18 years? Quake's type of combat has an extremely high skill cap while your "realistic" shooters have a simple cap that can be achieved by anyone with decent mouse control and config settings. Bullet drop mechanics on long range rifles means nothing if your enemies are extremely slow. Try shooting someone in mid air with the STEAK GUN in Painkiller, which is arguably the fastest FPS in the world, now THAT is complex.

If Quake is so simple then why don't you earn big bucks playing professional duel in cups and tournaments. Your ignorance makes me laugh, and you understand nothing about the basic fundamentals of first person shooter skill saying something like "accuracy modifiers are skill" when many of them are heavily based on RANDOM NUMBER GENERATION. Corner sniping, Strafe dodging (as you put A D dancing.. who even uses WASD anymore?), prediction, tracking, twitch, angles, z-axis aiming, juggling, are all part of most Arena FPS games.

I'm saying this as a Tribes, UT, CS, COD, Quake, TF2, Painkiller, Serious Sam player.

So why would you want this game based more on luck than skill? Also if you haven't noticed AIM DOWN SIGHTS actually stops all bullet spread in this game. It's still useless since spread can be reset from letting go of the fire button for a millisecond.

Also if Quake is so boring then why does every game in its series STILL have a healthy player-base when most tactical FPS games aside from counter strike have essentially died.

[OfficerMeatbeef]

Quake is great! Tactical FPS games can be great too! One is not necessarily better than the other, they each are trying to do different things and designed to make the player make different choices in given situations. Quake is about balls to the wall, always moving, straight up pure point-n-click skill. That's rad! Tactical FPSs are about more realistic, deliberate movement, where you're choosing how to balance your more effective movement options with still being able to deliver accurate enough effective fire. That's rad too!

Man, it's weird nowadays to see tactical FPSs be the "noob games" or "casual" games or whatever pejoratives people like to use nowadays when it was kind of the opposite back when games like Quake etc. ruled the scene, but I guess that partially speaks to how a lot of the big things people call "tactical FPS" nowadays.... aren't very tactical. They took the parts that were specific to tactical FPS design, sorta smashed them together with some Quake stuff, added XP progressions and called it a day.

But I digress...

I like the gunplay style of Renegade X. It's an interesting mix of arcadey and tactical, which is totally appropriate for something recreated from an FPS adaption of a classic RTS. I think there's a bit of room for something like iron sights to add a little bit of extra utility and choice to weapons that otherwise wouldn't otherwise have anything but "aim and hold down the trigger", like the carbine or assault rifle, without getting away from the core gunplay that makes this game (and its predecessor) so unique. I think the way they are in now is mostly ok, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for refinement.

Here's an idea off the top of my head: another of the unique things about this game (and was very unique even back then) is how it doesn't bother to simulate bullet drop, which wouldn't really suit it I don't think, but still makes range an essential consideration by simply making each weapon's projectile travel on a certain difference before it ceases to exist. In the game, the shotgun isn't just poor at range because it spreads too much to do damage; its shots literally won't exist beyond its effective range!

So what if we use the iron sights to play around with that a bit more here. Maybe firing from sights could make the shotgun spread more focused? What if aiming down sights for the Automatic Rifle/Carbine didn't effect spread so much as it gave the weapons a bit more range? The game is already arcadey and ridiculous enough that I don't think it matters if these are given fictional justifications, but I dunno maybe say something like "it's required to use the more precise aiming mode to allow the gun's advanced stabilization mechanism blah blah" whatever it's for gameplay purposes anyway.

It would further emphasis that ADS in this game isn't meant to be the go-to way of dealing with most engagements, just an option when you want to be more effective at an opponent a bit further out than normal.

Like I said, this is just an idea off the top of my head, it's not meant to be particularly well-thought-out or nothing, but it seems like a decent way to balance out the severe disadvantage aiming down sights gives you in movement penalty.

[fetchystick]

The bunny hopping and 100% accuracy at hip fire (again, since letting go of fire for .1 seconds negates all spread) of RenegadeX makes it so that any fight at any distance will come down to aiming and dodging skill. Plus the high TTK allows players to use their health as a resource for attacking and running rather than simply dying at first sight of an enemy. The tactical considerations to be made in RenX come not from the aiming down sights, but from purchasing the proper loadouts for each situation.

On-topic: I think the carbine is fine gameplay-wise, but the sights and the sound are both awful.