How about adding nod's avatar?

[Dellta_34]

Seriosely how fucking cool would that be?

And besides,GDI has mammoth tanks

[cirex]

These avatars is where EA was starting to make C&C more crappy. In C&C3 the whole NOD base did even look like Nod did exist out of circus tents. In my opinion mech technology, which is extreme high-tech should only be a part of GDI. So far my opinion...

And then the biggest point against it, Renegade did never happen during the period of C&C3, it was long before C&C3 took place. Die-hards will not like it when someone is going to mess to much with all the 'timeline' sense of C&C3, even while EA did mess up the ending of the series.

[Noodlesocks]

Would love a C&C 3 era renegade x mod but Nod never really developed mech tech until after the 2nd war.

[dirtycopgangsta]

These avatars is where EA was starting to make C&C more crappy. In C&C3 the whole NOD base did even look like Nod did exist out of circus tents.

I agree, CnC 3 is NOT a sequel to Tiberian Sun Firestorm. It's more like a crappy spin-off, with tentacles.

[Taramafor]

That might be an interesting idea actually. Imagine an avatar taking parts off flame and stealth tanks. Of course, the avatar would have to be expensive on its own first and then of course there's the price of any "upgrades" (have the "sacrificed" vehicles unoccupied for the avatars to grab the parts from them).

There's just one little flaw. What would GDI get to balance this out? avatar size is just about ok but you can't give GDI a mammoth mark 2 because if everyone had one, it would cluster the battlefield. And you can't only have one of each because everyone else would be left out.

[Nod Trooper]

I still love CNC3, it still had the same feeling of tiberian sun imo just with added graphics, CNC4 was blasphemous. Oh and can we get scorpion tanks? And maybe attack bikes?

[R315r4z0r]

These avatars is where EA was starting to make C&C more crappy. In C&C3 the whole NOD base did even look like Nod did exist out of circus tents. In my opinion mech technology, which is extreme high-tech should only be a part of GDI. So far my opinion...

And then the biggest point against it, Renegade did never happen during the period of C&C3, it was long before C&C3 took place. Die-hards will not like it when someone is going to mess to much with all the 'timeline' sense of C&C3, even while EA did mess up the ending of the series.

From what I recall, GDI mech technology is pretty straight forward. But Nod reverse engineered it and fitted it with experimental tech and created the avatar.

However, they don't do that for at least 50 years from the timeline this game is in so...

[Antisymmetric]

And maybe attack bikes?

I don't think avatar's are a good idea admittedly because I don't like the way they took Nod in C&C3/4, and balancing would be difficult. But I love the idea of recon bikes, they're from first tiberium war so they fit the lore, and there super sexy. I think I remember playing on servers where you could use recon bikes back in the day, I definitely remember they made an appearance in the single player, they shot a helicopter down or something.

[Daedhart]

No...just, no.

[Christopher]

Would love a C&C 3 era renegade x mod but Nod never really developed mech tech until after the 2nd war.

2nd war is best war. also,

[omega79]

The Tiberium saga ended with Firestorm ...

Avatars do not exist in this universe ...

sad enough the tiberium somehow made it in RenegadeX

[Taramafor]

And maybe attack bikes?

I don't think avatar's are a good idea admittedly because I don't like the way they took Nod in C&C3/4, and balancing would be difficult. But I love the idea of recon bikes, they're from first tiberium war so they fit the lore, and there super sexy. I think I remember playing on servers where you could use recon bikes back in the day, I definitely remember they made an appearance in the single player, they shot a helicopter down or something.

Now THIS is an idea I like. Unfortunately, bikes are fast and the map sizes.... Yea, not big enough.

[lauri455]

What's up with the Tiberian Wars hate? It's a good game.

[ZidaneA]

What's up with the Tiberian Wars hate? It's a good game.

Well the gameplay was fun multiplayer. But EA pretty much screwed up everything else. I do not consider C&C3/4 to be cannon in any way and it should not be part of Renegade X.

I do like the idea of incorporating ideas from Tiberian Sun, as I think that game was way better than the original C&C. But I understand if that's a no-no because of the timeline.

[Drury]

On another forum someone else had suggested Mammoth MKII walker, as a separate gamemode where Nod has to do side objectives to stop it from entering their base, such as blowing dams up to flood it and such.

[SeriousPan]

That'd be amazing. *drool*

[omega79]

What's up with the Tiberian Wars hate? It's a good game.

the game was okayish ... playable ... maybe even a little fun

but it felt not like C&C ... they did not follow the canon and the story was dissapointing

TBH, TD raised the bar very high ... and even TS did not get that high for many of the fans (I liked it a lot!) ...

but TS did follow the canon ...

[HaTe]

Follow the what

[Dellta_34]

I played every C&C game since they came out(except generals)and I liked C&C3 TW+KW the best(and I hated Red alert 3 and C&C4)

[Christopher]

I'd recommend not wasting your time talking about your unrealistic fantasies you'd like to be added to this game. I did that for years on the official C&C forums. So no youre not getting super awesome tiberian sun tech in renegade and jesus christ isnt going to knock at your door tomorrow morning. and no tiberium wars was not a good game it was a incredibly mediocre game and EA Games continued to lower their standards after that until the franchise was entirely destroyed and no one could deny that (there are people still in denial asking why the new Generals was cancelled) BECAUSE IT SUCKED THATS WHY.

You wanna know why Tiberium wars sucks? because its not canon either!. they went back to their "roots" removing all tiberian sun technology and referencing tiberian dawn and starcraft more than anything else. when louis castle was asked when the tiberium saga was going to end he said when they stop buying it. well they stopped buying it! so it ended at tiberian twilight. ran it staight into the ground. the derailing started at tiberium wars. it had horrible path finding, terrible laggy interface, no good strategies besides unit spam and pathetic harassment strats, completely resigned the universe. they had god damn apple laptops on the desk with gdi stickers on it. they cut every corner and completely raped the franchise in tiberium wars. hell emperor battle for dune looks like a better sequel to tiberian sun than tiberium wars. as far as im concerned they wanted to dodge tiberian sun and reboot the franchise to their crappy vision. im glad tiberium wars is a dead game. nobody plays it let it rot in hell.

What's up with the Tiberian Wars hate? It's a good game.

the game was okayish ... playable ... maybe even a little fun

but it felt not like C&C ... they did not follow the canon and the story was dissapointing

TBH, TD raised the bar very high ... and even TS did not get that high for many of the fans (I liked it a lot!) ...

but TS did follow the canon ...

I'm EAShortbus you probably know of me since you keep throwing around the word "canon" which was said a lot back when tiberium wars was coming out. id say they probably copied dune, star wars, alien movie, etc a little too much for some people's liking who wanted a near future modern day game like Tiberian Dawn again. i think ea looked at the stats and saw tiberian sun wasnt that highly rated and thought people couldnt relate to its exotic scifi world so they wanted to make it more relatable and upon doing so made it super gay to us ts fans.

i still remember red alert and generals fans more than happy that they got rid of mechs and the other tiberian sun tech because they wanted it to be like their favorite C&C universe. so it was 3+ against us TS fans. the red alert, generals, tiberian dawn, starcraft, renegade, every day people etc fans were all against our new founded super futuristic scifi tiberian sun universe. thus tiberian sun was ignored entirely.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Guest

[omega79]

Follow the what

Canon:

In fiction, canon is the material accepted as "official" in a fictional universe. It is often contrasted with, or used as the basis for, works of fan fiction. The term "canon" can be used either as a noun, referring to "the original work from which the fan fiction author borrows,"[1] or as an adjective to describe whether or not certain elements are accepted as authoritative parts of the fictional universe.

Source: WIKIPEDIA

@Christopher

Canon is a very common word as you see

[HaTe]

Just because they had the scrin as a playable faction, it was a bad game? Adding a third playable faction was an awesome gameplay step if you ask me. I wish there was a renegade-like fps game based off of KW, personally. Would be pretty sick

[omega79]

Just because they had the scrin as a playable faction, it was a bad game? [...]

Said who?

WW had plans for a third faction aswell

Christopher has some good points in his You wanna know why Tiberium wars sucks? paragraph

[HaTe]

That's just because the narrow minded invisioned one way for the series to go. When the series pulled a 180 on that, those people got upset and claimed the game "sucked."

[iran]

I look the idea of adding C&C3 units, but the Avatar is a very strong unit and Nod already has very powerful vehicles which require nerfing.

Maybe add the Disruptor from Tiberian Sun? GDI could use a few heavy hitters in their vehicular arsenal.

[TheGroundsKeeper]

I'd recommend not wasting your time talking about your unrealistic fantasies you'd like to be added to this game. I did that for years on the official C&C forums. So no youre not getting super awesome tiberian sun tech in renegade and jesus christ isnt going to knock at your door tomorrow morning. and no tiberium wars was not a good game it was a incredibly mediocre game and EA Games continued to lower their standards after that until the franchise was entirely destroyed and no one could deny that (there are people still in denial asking why the new Generals was cancelled) BECAUSE IT SUCKED THATS WHY.

You wanna know why Tiberium wars sucks? because its not canon either!. they went back to their "roots" removing all tiberian sun technology and referencing tiberian dawn and starcraft more than anything else. when louis castle was asked when the tiberium saga was going to end he said when they stop buying it. well they stopped buying it! so it ended at tiberian twilight. ran it staight into the ground. the derailing started at tiberium wars. it had horrible path finding, terrible laggy interface, no good strategies besides unit spam and pathetic harassment strats, completely resigned the universe. they had god damn apple laptops on the desk with gdi stickers on it. they cut every corner and completely raped the franchise in tiberium wars. hell emperor battle for dune looks like a better sequel to tiberian sun than tiberium wars. as far as im concerned they wanted to dodge tiberian sun and reboot the franchise to their crappy vision. im glad tiberium wars is a dead game. nobody plays it let it rot in hell.

Ahh that was so satisfying to read!

I agree on every bit!

[Noodlesocks]

That's just because the narrow minded invisioned one way for the series to go. When the series pulled a 180 on that, those people got upset and claimed the game "sucked."

Wasn't so much that they took the series in a direction that didn't follow logically from the closing point of the previous. The biggest problem with C&C 3 story wise is that they flat out contradicted a lot of events and "facts" established by the previous games. There were a lot of plot holes in C&C 3.

The story telling wasn't quite as interesting as it had been in previous games. For the most part, the cutscenes were just "mission briefings."

Personally I hated how the relegated the majority of the back story in C&C 3 to a bunch of word documents. CABAL in particular, a major character throughout C&C and all he got was a .txt file.

Now don't get me wrong, I Love C&C 3 and Kane's Wrath (which did improve the story a little) but storywise, it wasn't to the quality of previous games and was, as far as I'm concerned, the beginning of the end for C&C story telling.

[fetchystick]

I liked CnC3. Then again it was the first CnC game I ever played, and I haven't yet had the time to finish Tiberian Sun, so maybe when I finish TibSun I'll change my mind.

But overall I feel where you are coming from. As a diehard Nod fanboy, I feel as if the first two games did the whole nod thing a whole lot better. The avatar was very un-nod, since it was a super powerful vehicle capable of going toe-to-toe with even mammoth tanks. The whole point of nod is that there is nothing in your arsenal that can win a direct fight with a mammoth tank, or a medium tank for that matter. So while GDI is slowly marching up with their powerful army, you're left to come up with a unique solution.

Nod's entire philosophy is to use high-risk, high-reward special weapons. Flame tanks/infantry, stealth tanks, and especially attack bikes could all do some major damage, but if the enemy defended properly or you messed up your micro, you'll just lose an expensive investment. This led to gameplay where Nod would win if they managed to continuously wreck things and make crazy plays, just like a terrorist organization, while GDI would win if they managed to keep control of the situation, pinpoint nod's weakness, and make one giant push to destroy them, just like a world peace and anti-terrorist organization.

CnC3 didn't have that. Both teams had pretty much the same units, and nod could win in straight-up fights because of units like the avatar. It was a fun game, but it didn't really feel like the same CnC from 1 & 2/

[HaTe]

That's just because the narrow minded invisioned one way for the series to go. When the series pulled a 180 on that, those people got upset and claimed the game "sucked."

Wasn't so much that they took the series in a direction that didn't follow logically from the closing point of the previous. The biggest problem with C&C 3 story wise is that they flat out contradicted a lot of events and "facts" established by the previous games. There were a lot of plot holes in C&C 3.

The story telling wasn't quite as interesting as it had been in previous games. For the most part, the cutscenes were just "mission briefings."

Personally I hated how the relegated the majority of the back story in C&C 3 to a bunch of word documents. CABAL in particular, a major character throughout C&C and all he got was a .txt file.

Now don't get me wrong, I Love C&C 3 and Kane's Wrath (which did improve the story a little) but storywise, it wasn't to the quality of previous games and was, as far as I'm concerned, the beginning of the end for C&C story telling.

Every single game had plot holes that didn't match up. Fuck, even Eva was renamed randomly without explanation. It wasn't just this story that changed things up. I've played them all myself, and I enjoyed the story line of cnc3 more than any other. Having Kane come back and trick GDI into setting off the liquid tiberium was an awesome way to add some much needed variation to the game (with the addition of scrin). It was a bit of a stretch for some people, but I really enjoyed it.

CABAL was replaced with LEGION..

[super_gsx]

Hey I liked CnC3! Not 4. Just 3.

[Letty]

Keep in mind that the Core Defender existed in Firestorm, and CABAL was basically an even higher tech Nod. But no, walking mechs are completely out of line for Tiberian Dawn, which is what Renegade is.

[iran]

Actually, Renegade takes place in 2020. Tiberian Sun takes place in 2030 and Tiberian Dawn took place in the 90's. It's also why the game is much closer to Tiberian Sun than Tiberian Dawn.

[Nielsen]

Actually, Renegade takes place in 2020. Tiberian Sun takes place in 2030 and Tiberian Dawn took place in the 90's. It's also why the game is much closer to Tiberian Sun than Tiberian Dawn.

I thought Renegade was 2002?

[HaTe]

Renegade takes place in 2001-2002...

[iran]

No. In the game manual close after the table of content (page 5 in my Dutch translation, page 6 in the English one) the game plot is introduced by the way of a transcribed (and partially redacted) transmission you receive from EVA, the date for this transmission is listed as 12 march 2020.

Hence the reason why Mobius is now an old man and no longer a 35-40 year old scientist.

Here's a PDF of the English manual: http://nyerguds.arsaneus-design.com/man ... nglish.pdf

It's kinda shocking a developer didn't know this, considering unit design for Renegade units are inspired by Tiberian Sun units and look (e.g. Nod Soldier, Stealth Tank, Nod APC, Personal Ion Cannon), the advanced experimentation with Cyborgs and Tiberium (mutants) and a vast amount of references in the original game's data files.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Guest

[HaTe]

Renegade takes place during the end of the first tiberium war. The entire campaign is about the ending of this war...

35-40 seems reasonable.

[iran]

Yes it's very plausible he's 35-40 in the 90's, which means that 20-25 years later he should have white hair and be old, so in about 2020. Hence why the developers and the manual state the game takes place around 2020 just before Tiberian Sun.

[Letty]

Manual notwithstanding, the tech in Renegade is clearly Tiberian Dawn based. The Renegade campaign directly parallels the Tiberian Dawn GDI campaign in many places. The cinematic for the first mission of Renegade even goes so far as to show a Tiberian Dawn recreation of the battlefield before changing into a 3D view. Plenty of other cutscenes or area designs are directly recreated from Tiberian Dawn.

Either there was a secret Tiberium War (renegade) in between the 1st Tiberium War (dawn) and the 2nd Tiberium war (sun), which as far as I know is not mentioned anywhere else and during which both sides experienced no technological advancements before catapulting to 2nd tiberium war tech a few years later, or the manual is in error/things were retconned.

C&C was never perfect about fitting things into a timeline anyway. Tiberian Sun officially lasted lasted less than 3 months, which is pretty ludacris.

[Nielsen]

No. In the game manual close after the table of content (page 5 in my Dutch translation, page 6 in the English one) the game plot is introduced by the way of a transcribed (and partially redacted) transmission you receive from EVA, the date for this transmission is listed as 12 march 2020.

Hence the reason why Mobius is now an old man and no longer a 35-40 year old scientist.

Here's a PDF of the English manual: http://nyerguds.arsaneus-design.com/man ... nglish.pdf

It's kinda shocking a developer didn't know this, considering unit design for Renegade units are inspired by Tiberian Sun units and look (e.g. Nod Soldier, Stealth Tank, Nod APC, Personal Ion Cannon), the advanced experimentation with Cyborgs and Tiberium (mutants) and a vast amount of references in the original game's data files.

I am aware that the manual states 2020, I have it right here, I always assumed that was a typo however, 2002 / 2020 it's easily made...

I concur that Renegade is in sync with TD, or if it's not then they made a wrong impression on me

Stealth Tank was all in TD, personal Ion Cannon has nothing to do with TS. The Nod soldier in Ren has ski goggles but other than that looks paramilitary like in TD.

The ending cutscene in Ren leaves a lot to be desired, you destroy a Nod temple in Caïro, Egypt if I'm not mistaken, Kane is still alive. At the end of TD, Kane is "dead" and never heard of again until the start of TS... surely if Kane "died" already and is known to be alive during events in Ren (he speaks to Havoc) then Solomon would not be surprised.

Seeing how long wars last and the events in TD / Ren I can only conclude that it's round ~99 / 2002 and not 2020.

TS already starts in 2030 with vastly upgraded tech: Mechs, spaceships, orbital command centre etc.

Ren being in 2020 is doubtful tbh. Mobius looking different (he doesn't resemble the goofy guy that played the original at all) is not very compelling evidence.

[HaTe]

While the manual does appear to say it twice (making the possibility of a typo low), the actual gameplay itself, and some of the missions are even directly correlated with Tiberian Dawn. As Letty points out, there are several scenes in which the Tiberian Dawn is referenced to even.

What are the blacked out markings on page 6 of the manual, exactly?

[Nielsen]

That the manual says it twice means only that they were at least consistent with their error if it is one.

[NodCommander]

These avatars is where EA was starting to make C&C more crappy. In C&C3 the whole NOD base did even look like Nod did exist out of circus tents. In my opinion mech technology, which is extreme high-tech should only be a part of GDI. So far my opinion...

And then the biggest point against it, Renegade did never happen during the period of C&C3, it was long before C&C3 took place. Die-hards will not like it when someone is going to mess to much with all the 'timeline' sense of C&C3, even while EA did mess up the ending of the series.

This, and SO much this. Except, on the first row. Its Nod, not NOD

Avatars are EA nonsense. And even if you DO consider EAs version to be canon, Avatars does not appear until well after Tiberian Sun.

[HaTe]

Recipient: Captain Nick Parker, Division 618, Unit B8

Received: 12 March 2020

EVA Data Link: ZX-747 GCON_2020-3-12:Parker, N: Access Level Delta-12

Encrypted Message follows

I somehow doubt a double typo took place.

Here's a quote explaining Dr. Mobius's rapid aging, though:

During the First Tiberium War, he continued his research, which included setting up a field hospital to treat humans who contracted Tiberium poisoning.[4] It was then that he learned of the disastrous effect Tiberium had on plants and animals, and changed his approach entirely, warning that Tiberium was potentially the greatest threat to humanity ever. This discovery wrecked him mentally and physically - he was no longer the enthusiast he was and he aged rapidly over the months.

It's clearly during the end of the First Tiberium War, around 2002.

[Nielsen]

Well I'm not saying it is a double typo, it could've been the first time and then they kept it because the person writing the manual was consistent (and unaware). Or the game was originally planned to be in 2020.

Or they messed up lol.

In any case they did mess up, because it makes no sense for the game to be in 2020.

[Letty]

I'd say Mobius's hair being white was an artistic decision to distinguish him as the father of Sydney, else he would look more like her Husband.

[iran]

How come the developers and the manual state the game takes place in 2020 then? I'm not sure how Mobius being an old guy isn't compelling evidence, as the the original game briefings (not just the videos) reference him as a youthful researcher, yet in Renegade he's about 25 years older.

Logan Sheppard is the son of Mark Sheppard (your commanding officer in the first C&C game when playing as GDI).

Maybe people are confused because in the original design up to late 2000, you played as the Commando in the First Tiberium War. As shown by the e3 footage and from developer commentary. Only afterwards did they go with the current story involving an aged Mobious, advanced Tiberium mutation and cyborgs with advanced particle weapons (e.g. PIC and Rail Gun) resembling TS weapons, Nod Soldier and Stealth Tank resembling the TS one and Flame Tank, APC and Artillery , Light Tank and Harvester not resembling either TS nor TD. The original Flame Tank, Harvester and Light Tanks were modeled after TD, and the Nod Soldier had cameo clothing resembling the one from C&C1 FMV videos, and not resembling the TS Nod Soldier.

Not only does the manual mention 12 March 2013 twice, it also mentions Nod and GDI history in the late 20th and early 21th century as if it's the away from the present in the game.

To quote the manual:

. Throughout the end of the 20th century – and

into the 21st – Nod has continued to fuel conflicts in volatile nations by providing them

It also mentions that Mobious spent his life studying Tiberium. Considering the manual also mentions that the conflict started in 1995 (with the landing of the meteorite carrying Tiberium), it can't be just studying it for 7 years at most. And the manual isn't talking about him dedicating the rest of life to studying Tiberium.

. The most valuable provider of

Tiberium information is GDI’s leading research scientist, Dr. Ignatio Mobius. Dr.

Mobius, a chemist and geneticist, was the first person on the planet to identify the

value of Tiberium, and has since spent his life studying the mineral.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Guest

[iran]

Unless Mobious had a daughter when he was 15 that isn't the "rapid aging", which is non-sensical as Tiberium causes mutation and not rapid aging. Might be a good cop out for Mobious not being alive anymore during TS (which is implied as the game and expansion focus on the Tacticus to control Tiberium and never make mention of Mobius).

[Nielsen]

Mobius and Sheppard look mid- to late 40 in TD tbh. Makes them having a son / daughter at age 20-30 which is not very uncommon for a lot of people.

You said it yourself, most of the tech resembles TD.

then dr. Mobius has SINCE(!) spent his life studying the material, so from its appearance to date.

I dunno what you're on about iran but you're half arguing against your own position on the matter.

"into the 21st century" is simply post-1999, which doesn't detract anything from the '99-2002 timeframe.

[Letty]

Isn't there mention in the Renegade campaign of the Ion Cannon being a recent development? That would pretty much seal the deal and line the campaign up with the 2nd half of TD.

Mobius sure doesn't look 60 and he doesn't move like he's 60.

Vehicles and equipment looking more or less like TS instead of TD is simply rule of cool. Lots of units in TS were simply better looking.

In any case, all other evidence says that Nod fell off the radar and devolved into a handful of squabbling factions at the end of the First Tiberium War. They were not taking over major cities and destroying GDI head-to-head like you see them doing in Renegade. And Kane was completely gone until the Second Tiberium war, there is no doubt about this. Quote the manual all you like, the game itself is what matters. Kane died at the end of Tiberian Dawn and returned in Tiberian Sun.

[Drury]

Unless Mobious had a daughter when he was 15 that isn't the "rapid aging", which is non-sensical as Tiberium causes mutation and not rapid aging. Might be a good cop out for Mobious not being alive anymore during TS (which is implied as the game and expansion focus on the Tacticus to control Tiberium and never make mention of Mobius).

He didn't age of Tiberium exposure, he aged upon realization that Tiberium is a threat rather than a gift, destroying every lifeform in it's path. It was so bad that his hair turned white in a few months.