Airstrikes

[xgamer888]

First off, last night I played for about 4-5 hours.

I am very very happy with the game. You guys did a WONDERFUL job! This is by far the best Beta I've played in. The amount of bugs are very limited, and you have a good amount of maps.

I have seen a lot of people complain about airstrikes though.

I would like to say, I have clocked way too many hours playing the original renegade, and I believe the concept of airstrikes is a great idea. It seems to function the way it should as well, to break up camps. However, I was able to (after defending the base for 20 mins) buy 4-5 of them, and repeatedly strike. As nice as that is (reward for defending), I believe that may be a bit unfair. Rather then a cool-down timer, I believe a more dynamic approach may be able to give everyone more options

What I would propose is three-fold:

1. Like many people have mentioned, it's hard to see an airstrike coming. Perhaps if you made a colored smoke (yellow for GDI, red for nod) that would help to see where it's going to hit.

2. Have different tiered sizes of air strikes. Have one that's perhaps $250-500 that kills inf only. Have one that's perhaps $500-1000 that is the current size. And have one that's $1000-2500 that's even bigger.

3. Some an ability to counter airstrikes. Have the ability to have an anti air gun / locking missile, that can 2 hit the air striking jets. An example is in Command and Conquer Generals, the Specter Gunship, while very powerful, could be shot down with AA. Also, the A-10 strikes were the same way. It may be very hard to implement this one, and you guys would have to do a lot of brainstorming to make it balanced, but I feel it would be great.

Thanks everyone for a great game, and I'm looking forward to many more hours of fun!

[R315r4z0r]

I like airstrikes as they are at the moment, and if anyone who's been complaining recently about them has noticed... compared to the first day, the use of airstrikes has indeed come down. That's not to say they are without problems, but my point is that they are not as bad as people were making them out to be.

Personally I think the following is needed for airstrikes:

1. Increase the casting time.

2. Brighten the laser designator, or maybe even have a lens flare from the person pointing the binoculars.

3. Maybe increase the price slightly.

4. Activate a personal cooldown timer for calling in strikes. You call one in, you have to wait X minutes to do it again. This is a personal lockout, not a team lockout.

5. (Most importantly)GREATLY lower the amount of points a player gets from a successful airstrike. I'd go as far to even say a mere 1 points per enemy hit is more than enough. - Clearing the enemy lines is its own reward. We don't need losing teams winning from points they earned just from spamming airstrikes.

I've been in games where I'd have like 2,000-3,000 points but then someone with a few good airstrikes jumps ahead of me in points... not by a few points or a few hundred... but a few thousand points. This really needs to change.

[greanthai420]

I like airstrikes as they are at the moment, and if anyone who's been complaining recently about them has noticed... compared to the first day, the use of airstrikes has indeed come down. That's not to say they are without problems, but my point is that they are not as bad as people were making them out to be.

Personally I think the following is needed for airstrikes:

1. Increase the casting time.

2. Brighten the laser designator, or maybe even have a lens flare from the person pointing the binoculars.

3. Maybe increase the price slightly.

4. Activate a personal cooldown timer for calling in strikes. You call one in, you have to wait X minutes to do it again. This is a personal lockout, not a team lockout.

5. (Most importantly)GREATLY lower the amount of points a player gets from a successful airstrike. I'd go as far to even say a mere 1 points per enemy hit is more than enough. - Clearing the enemy lines is its own reward. We don't need losing teams winning from points they earned just from spamming airstrikes.

I've been in games where I'd have like 2,000-3,000 points but then someone with a few good airstrikes jumps ahead of me in points... not by a few points or a few hundred... but a few thousand points. This really needs to change.

I personally have never used airstrike but I generally agree with your ideas. I don't even know how many points you get for killing people/destroying tanks with it. But I think if price is increased then cooldown should not be implemented vice versa.

[Soldieroffate]

I welcomed the airstrike option because it's certainly a niche way to break out of your base if the enemy team has you boxed in, the latter of which happens a lot (especially on maps like Field and Under).

There should be a slight price increase, that I agree with.

[TotemAatz]

No, airstrike is shit, we just worked our asses off to push Field back and when we started to breach the enemy defense they put out a few airstrikes and our whole tank force was out of commission, this whole airstrike is pissing me off more and more.

[greanthai420]

No, airstrike is shit, we just worked our asses off to push Field back and when we started to breach the enemy defense they put out a few airstrikes and our whole tank force was out of commission, this whole airstrike is pissing me off more and more.

When I hear airstrike warning I just spam the fall back radio and people usually does fall back.

[TotemAatz]

No, airstrike is shit, we just worked our asses off to push Field back and when we started to breach the enemy defense they put out a few airstrikes and our whole tank force was out of commission, this whole airstrike is pissing me off more and more.

When I hear airstrike warning I just spam the fall back radio and people usually does fall back.

Problem is with 10 mammoth tanks blasting away + the enemy artillery coming in a tiny voice is not going to change anything.

[greanthai420]

No, airstrike is shit, we just worked our asses off to push Field back and when we started to breach the enemy defense they put out a few airstrikes and our whole tank force was out of commission, this whole airstrike is pissing me off more and more.

When I hear airstrike warning I just spam the fall back radio and people usually does fall back.

Problem is with 10 mammoth tanks blasting away + the enemy artillery coming in a tiny voice is not going to change anything.

Yea that's why I think it needs to be more noticeable. But I don't think airstrikes should be removed because it's too hard for a casual like nod players (eg. me) to break out of 5 mammoths with 2 MLRS in front of my base

[Noodlesocks]

I like them as they are. I personally don't think they need to be changed. I notice most people complaining about airstrikes are basing it mostly of one single map (field). Only rarely do I see airstrikes being called on other maps.

The thing is, there are already fair warnings that an airstrike is coming. Not only is there a laser pointing exactly where the airstrike is going to hit for several seconds, the game even tells you when an enemy airstrike is incoming.

Maybe the laser could be a little more visible or maybe the lasing could take a few seconds longer but as far as I'm concerned, it's peoples own fault for being caught in one given the visible and audible warnings already in the game.

[SFJake]

Stop it with your fair warning, that blends in with everything else thats being said, lacking any visual cue, and the laser is so tiny and transparent, nevermind all those effects the maps have nevermind all the explosions going around, I've never really seen one.

Nothing fair about air strikes, if they were so obvious people would be dodging them, they're not, they need to be clearer.

[greanthai420]

I like them as they are. I personally don't think they need to be changed. I notice most people complaining about airstrikes are basing it mostly of one single map (field). Only rarely do I see airstrikes being called on other maps.

The thing is, there are already fair warnings that an airstrike is coming. Not only is there a laser pointing exactly where the airstrike is going to hit for several seconds, the game even tells you when an enemy airstrike is incoming.

Maybe the laser could be a little more visible or maybe the lasing could take a few seconds longer but as far as I'm concerned, it's peoples own fault for being caught in one given the visible and audible warnings already in the game.

I honestly never noticed the laser though. I didn't even know it has a visible warning. I just assume when I hear the airstrike warning sound that it would be on a clump of tanks.

[TotemAatz]

While we can agree to disagree on certain point i think the whole thing is just a cluster♥♥♥♥ even with something visual in a closed area, no way everyone will manage to get away it'll be chaos, and if you ask me, once you breach the enemy line you should be rewarded by doing so (getting to attack their base) and not get blown to bits and being unable to advance due to spamstrike.

[Soldieroffate]

I'm pretty neutral in terms of my stance on airstrikes because as a longtime player of Renegade, certain maps in the old game make it very difficult to break out if the enemy locks you in. Field is usually the culprit for these situations; if there's a trio 1000 dollar snipers on the far side of the field popping everything that walks out of your base, you're not driving them out without a big tank or a skilled sniper of your own.

And don't even get me started on breaking out of the base in the old game. The success relies more or less on the stupidity of the other team while hoping your own team doesn't do anything dumb in the process.

[Noodlesocks]

Stop it with your fair warning, that blends in with everything else thats being said, lacking any visual cue, and the laser is so tiny and transparent, nevermind all those effects the maps have nevermind all the explosions going around, I've never really seen one.

Nothing fair about air strikes, if they were so obvious people would be dodging them, they're not, they need to be clearer.

I won't censor myself because others need the game to hold their hand.

[SFJake]

You throw that statement around like it makes any sense here. It doesn't.

[Noodlesocks]

You throw that statement around like it makes any sense here. It doesn't.

I don't know how to put it in a simpler way for you to understand. I am sorry.

[TotemAatz]

Stop it with your fair warning, that blends in with everything else thats being said, lacking any visual cue, and the laser is so tiny and transparent, nevermind all those effects the maps have nevermind all the explosions going around, I've never really seen one.

Nothing fair about air strikes, if they were so obvious people would be dodging them, they're not, they need to be clearer.

I won't censor myself because others need the game to hold their hand.

What? Hand holding? It got nothing to do with hand holding, there is currently no way to notice while in big combat if someone from miles away is targeting you, there needs to be a circle or giant arrow or something to show this area is being bombarded and at the same time make it so it don't hurt inf as much, as airstrikes can and have been abused already to cover beacons.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Guest

[greanthai420]

It's true though that people rarely use airstrikes anymore even in fields.

However I still find there needs to be some tweaks on it given it's too cost effective as it is right now.

I would suggest making the warning sound louder and the visual cue more noticeable but not too obvious. Explosions n stuff makes it impossible to see at least for me since I have never seen one.

[Noodlesocks]

Stop it with your fair warning, that blends in with everything else thats being said, lacking any visual cue, and the laser is so tiny and transparent, nevermind all those effects the maps have nevermind all the explosions going around, I've never really seen one.

Nothing fair about air strikes, if they were so obvious people would be dodging them, they're not, they need to be clearer.

I won't censor myself because others need the game to hold their hand.

What? Hand holding? It got nothing to do with hand holding, there is currently no way to notice while in big combat if someone from miles away is targeting you, there needs to be a circle or giant arrow or something to show this area is being bombarded and at the same time make it so it don't hurt inf as much, as airstrikes can and have been abused already to cover beacons.

I don't agree that it's the games fault people aren't noticing the enemy point a laser at them for several seconds.

I don't agree that it's the games fault people aren't paying attention to EVA/CABAL telling them to get out of the way.

If people can't pay attention in the middle of all that mouse1 action they're doing, that's entirely on them as far as I'm concerned.

[TotemAatz]

I don't agree that it's the games fault people aren't noticing the enemy point a laser at them for several seconds.

I don't agree that it's the games fault people aren't paying attention to EVA/CABAL telling them to get out of the way.

If people can't pay attention in the middle of all that mouse1 action they're doing, that's entirely on them as far as I'm concerned.

I think you fail to see what we are trying to point out, with as much going on at the screen there is no way to see the laser, its hard enough to see without there being explosions around and for the voice, when something like, idk, bombs and tanks shells going off all over and people using "I NEED REPAIR" commands you wont even notice it at all.

[greanthai420]

I don't agree that it's the games fault people aren't noticing the enemy point a laser at them for several seconds.

I don't agree that it's the games fault people aren't paying attention to EVA/CABAL telling them to get out of the way.

If people can't pay attention in the middle of all that mouse1 action they're doing, that's entirely on them as far as I'm concerned.

It's not the problem of whose fault it is, but more of a problem of "effectiveness"

Yes it's the players fault for getting hit, but it's a little too effective for it's cost (cost in credits or time invested or strategy involved or whatever)

[Nielsen]

If things are unclear then it is the game/ our fault.

Aside from the Renegade quirks things should be pretty self-explanatory if you have an elegant gamedesign and all the visual / audio cues to support w/e is supposed to be going on.

There's a lot of stuff that requires tweaking and I think the EVA sounds are definitely one of them... we should look at prioritizing them above all other sound for instance.

The airstrike is kind of unclear, I think the game should do all it can to scream AIRSTRIKE!!! "shoot this mans to stop it from happening"

[TotemAatz]

If things are unclear then it is the game/ our fault.

Aside from the Renegade quirks things should be pretty self-explanatory if you have an elegant gamedesign and all the visual / audio cues to support w/e is supposed to be going on.

There's a lot of stuff that requires tweaking and I think the EVA sounds are definitely one of them... we should look at prioritizing them above all other sound for instance.

The airstrike is kind of unclear, I think the game should do all it can to scream AIRSTRIKE!!! "shoot this mans to stop it from happening"

Yes, i do think the airstrike can be a good tool to make packs of snipers or tanks to spread out making a point of assault viable for the team calling it in and that it should not be used as a mean to get rid of the whole enemy forces.

Also i think it should be up to each server administrator to decide if they want stuff like Airstrikes in the game or not, as not everyone like this feature those who pay for the server should be able to decide if they want it in theirs or not.

[Harlot]

Simple. make it so that the airstrike area gets marked on the minimap for people if someone looks at the laser pointed and presses Q. Problem solved.

Same should be doable with nuke/emp beacons.

[Noodlesocks]

I don't agree that it's the games fault people aren't noticing the enemy point a laser at them for several seconds.

I don't agree that it's the games fault people aren't paying attention to EVA/CABAL telling them to get out of the way.

If people can't pay attention in the middle of all that mouse1 action they're doing, that's entirely on them as far as I'm concerned.

I think you fail to see what we are trying to point out, with as much going on at the screen there is no way to see the laser, its hard enough to see without there being explosions around and for the voice, when something like, idk, bombs and tanks shells going off all over and people using "I NEED REPAIR" commands you wont even notice it at all.

I know what you're pointing out. That it's hard to keep track of everything going on when you're in a battle. The least of which being some guy on a hill with a laser pointer while you're trying to kill the enemy building.

The thing is, I have never really had a problem noticing the laser or the announcement. Hell, I even spam the fallback command when I do but people are rarely paying attention... And that's what I think the real problem is; the players. Not because they're bad. Not because they're idiots but simply because they aren't paying attention.

I can not honestly say I see a problem with airstrikes currently because I simply don't have the problems people here are complaining about. Don't get me wrong, I've been caught in airstrikes too. I know very well that with everything going on that it's easy to miss the little details but do I think it's because the game is unbalanced?

No. It's because I fucked up.

[Noodlesocks]

The airstrike is kind of unclear, I think the game should do all it can to scream AIRSTRIKE!!! "shoot this mans to stop it from happening"

You know, I was almost going to say this.

As a joke.

Cause that would be awful.

[greanthai420]

If things are unclear then it is the game/ our fault.

Aside from the Renegade quirks things should be pretty self-explanatory if you have an elegant gamedesign and all the visual / audio cues to support w/e is supposed to be going on.

There's a lot of stuff that requires tweaking and I think the EVA sounds are definitely one of them... we should look at prioritizing them above all other sound for instance.

The airstrike is kind of unclear, I think the game should do all it can to scream AIRSTRIKE!!! "shoot this mans to stop it from happening"

I am not sure if that's satire or not but I don't think the screaming then "shoot this mans to stop it from happening" is a good idea because it would be too cost ineffective since one of the strength of airstrikes is it's non-obviousness

Also i think it should be up to each server administrator to decide if they want stuff like Airstrikes in the game or not, as not everyone like this feature those who pay for the server should be able to decide if they want it in theirs or not.

I totally agree. More options are always better.

[Sgt_Jack]

Airstrikes are a bit overpowered and can be easily abused. They have to be limited in some way, and would be a good idea to have some kind of counter-action for air strike call. Example: If marked target/area would be noticeable, a versus team is able to cover marked target/area causing airstrike to be declined.

The example created some sort of idea to choose from marking single target like tank, or an area. Of course both of them won't be working identically and doing different type and amount of damage.

Airstrike spams must be eliminated, but not the whole airstrike idea. I think they are giving an extra flavor and make RenX better and advanced. They can be perfectly use for base defense and covering retreat. Definitive no for getting rid of the airstrikes. The Idea just need some work.

[SFJake]

What I hate the most I think is when you just walk around and then boom, oh, there was an airstrike there.

Frankly I just hate them because they're just a cheap way to try and make damage. They shuold only be able to disperse people at best. Yes, I'm actually suggesting that its so obvious that nobody should be getting hit by it unless they decide to stay there on purpose.

There's basically nothing less fun right now than airstrikes. They ruin so many aspects of the games wherever they are used.

[Evono]

Here is the Big Thread about air strikes ! viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72050

[Nielsen]

The airstrike is kind of unclear, I think the game should do all it can to scream AIRSTRIKE!!! "shoot this mans to stop it from happening"

You know, I was almost going to say this.

As a joke.

Cause that would be awful.

Why ? It's the team's job to provide diversion, it's the laser designator's job to find a location more hidden than in plain sight... It's the game's job to provide a reasonable defence against losing your troops against an unstoppable (at least after called in) airstrike.

[R315r4z0r]

The thing about airstrikes, and while I already have posted my suggestions, the thing about them is that you really don't need to see where they are planted.

Just use some common sense and little bit of deductive reasoning.

"Am I in a spot that the enemy wants?" "Does the enemy have a clear line of sight on my location?" "There was an airstrike announcement a second ago!"

If you just take a second to think, you can deduce where the airstrike is most likely going and steer clear of it.

I mean, really. If you have 6 mammoth tanks clogging up the front of Nod's base on field... then gee, I wonder where that airstrike is going... :\

[TotemAatz]

The thing about airstrikes, and while I already have posted my suggestions, the thing about them is that you really don't need to see where they are planted.

Just use some common sense and little bit of deductive reasoning.

"Am I in a spot that the enemy wants?" "Does the enemy have a clear line of sight on my location?" "There was an airstrike announcement a second ago!"

If you just take a second to think, you can deduce where the airstrike is most likely going and steer clear of it.

I mean, really. If you have 6 mammoth tanks clogging up the front of Nod's base on field... then gee, I wonder where that airstrike is going... :\

One of the problems is you wont hear the announcement. But i also think with 700 creds being able to deny the whole enemy advance ether way is stupid because you let them advance that far in the first place.

[R315r4z0r]

In addition to tweaking the announcement priority/volume, the announcements should also appear as text in the chat box.

[TheGroundsKeeper]

No, airstrike is shit, we just worked our asses off to push Field back and when we started to breach the enemy defense they put out a few airstrikes and our whole tank force was out of commission, this whole airstrike is pissing me off more and more.

I totally agree with this, when you fought like mad to get a siege to the enemy base, you deserve to hold the line there.

Same for in base airstrikes, it is the lamest ever.