What's up with GDI?

[Roguey]

hi there,

I finally able to get my copy UT3 today and gave the mod a bit of time. It seems to always forget my controls - so I have to re-bind everytime I connect

However, what's up with GDI? Nod's vehicles seem so much stronger and faster its silly. 2 Mobile Artilleries took my mammoth out without me killing one of the enemy Mobile Artillery. A 1,500 crd tank couldnt take even one 450 crd unit? and the med tank seems to struggle with a light tank? Maybe its me, but after a few games the same thing kept happening. I think ill only play as Nod in future.

Its a great mod although, looks brilliant. It even runs quite fast on my old pc (30-60fps on a X2 3800+ o/c 2.4, 2Gb, 9800gt)

[woandre]

Lol you probably havn't played C&C Renegade, have you?

A mammoth should take atleast 1 artillery out when it's 2vs1, but maybe a technician was repairing it?

I'd say get used to the gameplay and the vehicles/units, you'll realize later GDI has it's strenghts too!

[kenz3001]

as of version 0.550 onwards the two teams are very much the same i admit that Nod have an advantage with the flame tank as it does too much damage in my opinion.

as for a mammoth vs 2 artillery well the artys will always win in c&C Renegade or RenegadeX IF there is no 1 repairing the mammy

if you play RengadeX a bit more you will find that GDI will always have an advantage on all the automatic defense maps (AGT and the Obelisk maps) all in all the 2 teams are well balanced

[Demigan]

A mammoth tank has a maximum range, and commandeering a tank has lots more difficulty then most people realise. I'm good at most things, not pro but good, but if there is one thing I excel at compared to even the best players, it's tank fighting. The range, aiming and position of your tank can mean so much, both for how good you are, and how well you can be repaired. People are more likely to stick around and repair you if you manage to keep them safe, as well as quickly kill your opponents.

I think you should hang around someone who's good at GDI tanks for a while, be an engineer and GET IN his tank, so you can see how exactly he moves and what he aims for during combat. Then repair him when you've seen what you need to see. Keep an eye especially on the slow bullet travel, you need to aim rather in front of someone moving on long ranges. And people tend to have the exact same manoeuvres time and time again, making aiming BEHIND his tank even before he starts going backwards a possibility.

If you don't want the owner of the tank to think you are a noob (you aren't repairing him well) take a basic soldier and get in. He won't bother too much about you then, you'll be just someone who wants to get to the fight quickly.

You can also take an SBH and quietly watch from the sidelines, that works too. Don't go trying to accomplish something, just get to a safe area where you can watch how they do it. But the best thing to do to learn is either to be a passenger in a tank, or to fight yourself.

Yours sincerely,

Demigan.

[Roguey]

Lol you probably havn't played C&C Renegade, have you?

I only created Renegade Ammo, General Ammo, then finally combined them into C&C: Ammo ages back. At the time we had 4Gb downloads for Renegade. So I used to play Renegade a lot a while back, I havnt for a long time although. Some proof.

as of version 0.550 onwards the two teams are very much the same i admit that Nod have an advantage with the flame tank as it does too much damage in my opinion.

I think the flame tank didnt help things - took out my med tank and mammoth without too much trouble. One flame came into our base, and wiped the base before I could even move the mammoth any-where close. From what I remmeber it took 3 or 4 flame tanks to wipe a base out fairly quickly.

A mammoth tank has a maximum range, and commandeering a tank has lots more difficulty then most people realise.

Well.. I remember the mammoth being quite powerful without requiring someone to repair it, after-al its 1,500cr, slow and the 'big' tank. I remmeber just moving it back and repairing it myself.

When I finally got it into the battlefield, it felt weak.... like you said required someone repairing it. Didnt renegade have armour and health for each vehicle, not just vehicle health? ie. 1200 health, 1200 armour for a mammoth? or am I remembering wrong? if so, the mammoth is at half strength!

When I was attacking the Hand of Nod with a medium tank, it took me a few minutes to destroy it each shot done tiny amounts of damage. However a nod artillery and a light tank were doing massive amount of damage to our war factory.

In the old days I remmeber GDI doing fair amount of damage singly, whilst Nod required organized parties.... *Flame rush**

maybe I just had some 'bad' games?

[[NE]Fobby[GEN]]

The Renegade X Mammoth Tank is actually better than the C&C Renegade one. Its range is a bit longer, and the tank was pretty useless in the original game unless you had people repairing it.

Anyway, I would argue that GDI vehicles have an advantage over Nod when there is teamwork. 5 Medium tanks together will pretty much stop anything that comes at them (except perhaps Apaches), as they have more armour than all Nod vehicles and its shells are relatively good ranged and good damage. Mammoth Tanks are good only when the arena is clear enough to bring them in. A Mammoth in a direct fight with 2 or more tanks is likely to lose, but if the field is clear, a few Mammoth Tanks can make it to the enemy base's entrance and unload on anything that comes out. They're also good for rushing bases in some maps, since the Mammoth can take 4 Obelisk hits.

GDI is more raw power while Nod is more about tactics. A couple Artilleries, or a couple Flame Tanks, or a couple Stealth Tanks, respectively can be very powerful but only if they are used properly. Arties are best when they are far from their target, light tanks are best when they are constantly in motion and circling the enemy, Flame Tanks are best when they are close, and Stealth Tanks are best in groups.

[Roguey]

hmm,. well I find it odd that a mammoth (with 2x120mm? guns) would struggle to take out 1 of 2 artilleries out. The mammoth struggles to get in range, once done each hit does only a little bit of damage. potentially, 1 mammoth could lose against 1 artillery, due to the range and speed the artillery can move back. Which makes the mammoth just for rushes? So GDI is a 1 tank team? I never remmeber the mammoth being scared of 1 artillery before, I thought it could handle itself more?

I just had another go, it looks like vehicles have just 1 health bar - in the Renegade they had 2. Health and armour of the vehicle. Does this not mean that the big vehicles would have less health? ie.

Old. Mammoth 1200 x 2 = 2400, Med 800 x 2 (mammoth 800 more points of health) than:

New. Mammoth 1200 x 1, Med 800 x 1 (mammoth only 400 points of health than med),

So if you saying the mammoth was useless before, in renegade X the mammoth has even less health increase than before, surely making it even worse than before? Some extra speed would make the mammoth a bit more fair.

I hope you dont mind my thoughts, its your mod but gather its better to talk about it than not, arent that what forums are for? id figured that id wanna know any feed back, as I would on my own X3/TC mods. Renegade was a bit part of my life, as im sure it was for you.

[R315r4z0r]

For your first question, the mammoth is a big, slow moving slug of a vehicle. It's very easy to hit. It will easily fall against even a single artillery at the right range.

As for your second question, the two health bars in Renegade were combined into one here. In Renegade, the mammoth had 600 Health and 600 Armor, in Renegade X it just has one health bar that is 1200. In Renegade, the medium tank had 400 Health and 400 armor, in Renegade X it has 800.

[Roguey]

oooh, I thought they had 2 health bars of higher numbers - looking at my picture I can 320 units of health - which must of been out of 400. So like you said 800. Maybe its just the speed of the mammoth, just something doesnt feel right with it - and its hard to put my finger on it. Is the mammoth in Renegade-X of a similar speed to the original? maybe its the gun damage?

Its been so long since I played Renegade although, ill have to try it and do some comparisons.

[Vipeax]

It's not about the Mammoth tank being underpowered or the Artillery being overpowered. It usually means the Artillery driver is simply better. A mammoth is very slow, has it's cannons not that great placed for corner shooting and is simply very easy to hit. In essence you can just turn your artillery turret around a corner and shoot the track area of the Mammoth, while it's double cannons can't even hit you.

A Mammoth tank should only be used when the rest of the team already is bunkered in front of the enemy base (with a few exceptions, but this is the general idea).

[Qbert987]

the mammoth tank is for well, tanking.

[Roguey]

well to me the mammoth sounds terrible - slow, easy to hit and cant hit anything at range (yet, it cant get in range because its slow). Its only ever good when being a 'tank' (taking hits but being repaired) - but why cant you 'tank' in medium tanks instead (cheaper and can 'push' into the base much faster)? With a med. tank you have a higher chance to avoid shots. Its just a win, win situation!

I guess ill be better off buying an extra med tank for a fellow team-member than a mammoth. Does anyone find them useful?

?

[kenz3001]

yer mammoths are just there to hold back the advancing nod attacks until the small guns get there lol

[Roguey]

I think ill nick name it the Mandypandy Tank. Do you guys know the stats of the light, med and mammoth?

ie.

Health: 600? vs 800 vs 1200 (50% more),

Speed: ?? half?

Main guns: 1 x 60mm? vs 1 x 80mm vs 2 x 120mm (.. erm 3 times of a med?) does it do 3 times more?

Cost: 600crd vs 800crd vs 1,500crd (nearly double a med),

hmm.. It looks good with the above stats, its a shame it doesnt feel like that. Would a slight speed boost make it better? For me, it takes age to get into battle then its blown up in no time cos it cant get out of the way. I guess your happy with how it is? The med tank does seem to be the better choice always. Can 2 light tanks kill a mammoth, and would the mammoth even destroy 1 of the light tanks? I never remmeber in any C&C game that a mammoth would struggle to take on 2 lights.

[kenz3001]

look HERE for all the vehicle info

[Roguey]

ah med. tank has a 120mm canon. I thought it was 80mm, What about movement speed?

[Jointn00b]

I think ill nick name it the Mandypandy Tank. Do you guys know the stats of the light, med and mammoth?

ie.

Health: 600? vs 800 vs 1200 (50% more),

Speed: ?? half?

Main guns: 1 x 60mm? vs 1 x 80mm vs 2 x 120mm (.. erm 3 times of a med?) does it do 3 times more?

Cost: 600crd vs 800crd vs 1,500crd (nearly double a med),

hmm.. It looks good with the above stats, its a shame it doesnt feel like that. Would a slight speed boost make it better? For me, it takes age to get into battle then its blown up in no time cos it cant get out of the way. I guess your happy with how it is? The med tank does seem to be the better choice always. Can 2 light tanks kill a mammoth, and would the mammoth even destroy 1 of the light tanks? I never remmeber in any C&C game that a mammoth would struggle to take on 2 lights.

Actually I loved to take on a mammoth tank in my light tank back in normal Renegade... I was more agile, could dodge bullets easily and basically the mammoth is 1 big target practise. u can't miss even if u try.

As from the mammoth's point of view: The mammoth is a TANKING tank. Once battles have stalled to the point where every1's pointwhoring 1 or 2 mammoths could do the job if backed up properly. Else... well they're easy points for the enemy, and they've always been like that. I'd pick a med. over a mammoth any time

[iran]

All the Nod tanks are a lot stronger than in Renegade while in RenX GDI can't even put the turret on the Medium Tank correctly and the tank is even slower than in Renegade. The Light Tank has no trouble hitting Medium Tanks because they're so slow and because the Med's turret is mounted on the middle it has a lot of advantages in long range combat or close range when you can hide behind terrain. The Nod Artillery also has shoots faster than in Renegade and unlike the Renegade version doesn't have the "bullet spray" to it.

[R315r4z0r]

The mammoth has a guardian role on the battlefield. It absorbs more damage to allow other friendly units time to advance further.

A mammoth tank will do some damage if it is allowed to progress up the field. That's why it is such a big target. Using that to it's advantage, it allows it to absorb enemy fire while other units can move in on enemy positions.

That's why proper GDI base rushing formation should always put the mammoth tanks in front of the smaller units that way all base defense damage will be absorbed by the bulky mammoth tanks while the smaller units can run in and do more damage.