More fun or not ?

[NODeath]

Hi,

I have just play C&C Renegade 1 and the ambiance is really more fun than Renegade-X. Why ? More people ?

Simply i think that people search more ambiance of Renegade and than this ambiance of recent game. Certes Renegade-X is beautiful but this does not make everything.

But go on, RenX is not bad .

I search a small debate on this topic.

Thanks.

PS : Sorry for my english.

[kenz3001]

cnc renegade is more fun because of the amount of people and just that ... it is more frustrating too just for the BAD LAG ... renx is getting a bigger and bigger following and when the standalone is out even more cnc renegade players will get converted (they are all cheap they wont buy ut3 for 8 bucks)

me personally i proffers renx just coz i can shot some 1 that is there (cnc renegade i can shoot some 1 that is not there) .... i love the graphics in renx it just makes the game more enjoyable to play

i think the biggest problem is that renx is a "remake" of a very good game so not many people like to entertain the idea or a remake

now if the x was a 2 than see what would happen lol

cnc renegade has a bigger following at the moment but this will change

amount of people on the servers make the game (i always search for the biggest server in every game i have)

having such small amount of people at 1 time makes games shot and boaring (there is no 1 to defend the bace at the start of the game) the first team to get a mcv and or long range weapon wins

need to make a time for every 1 to come play (like a DEV night with out the DEV part) devs welcome lol

[R315r4z0r]

I disagree. The lag in Renegade X is much worse than the lag in Renegade.

It might not alter how your character moves and warp your enemies around, but at least what I hit takes damage.

People on Renegade X can't help but flock to the server with the highest ping... as such it's very hard for me to have a good experience when none of my shots damage what they hit.

[kenz3001]

QUOTE (R315r4z0r @ Jan 24 2010, 03:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I disagree. The lag in Renegade X is much worse than the lag in Renegade.

It might not alter how your character moves and warp your enemies around, but at least what I hit takes damage.

People on Renegade X can't help but flock to the server with the highest ping... as such it's very hard for me to have a good experience when none of my shots damage what they hit.[/b]

are you on about you have to aim of to 1 side when you are try to hit something that is moving ?

thats not lag thats the physx

the only time i get lag is in vehicles ... but im in the uk and most servers are european so i not know how it would effect other people in us and such

[R315r4z0r]

No that's lag. On laggy servers, your shots get delayed a bit so you have to aim more in front of your targets than you have to on other servers.

The better ping, the less delay your shots have.

That's why it's much easier to hit players on servers with better pings. It's almost impossible for me to win an infantry battle on the MP gaming server while in other servers I can survive much longer.

[bali]

when i went back to renegade, the first thing i saw (apart from the old graphics, which i remembered to better), is that i could actually see. even in the distance. in RenX the distant places get blurry, and in Field everything is grey and dark so i cannot tell what is there. setting the gamma, brightness wont do anything i just get a littlebit lighter grey "distant place" color. i guess this is an ut3 engine inherent, because its also present in other mods.

the second thing that i saw, was that my teammates actually knew what they did. no "camping the enemy harvester with a shotgun and not placing c4, while the base is getting rushed" stories happened.

what actually i hate in original renegade, is the arty screen-shake. Thank God it isnt implemented in RenX. (is there any way to turn it off in the original game? it would be a redemption for me)

lag is much-much-much worse in RenX for infantry fights than in original Renegade. (for me, at least)

if i shoot some1, i kill some1 in renegade, and not like i shoot him and because of the lag i didnt do any damage. Or once i missed, but because of lag it became a hs... wtf? it sucks imo, that i know not i killed him, i just got lucky. its too random.

for me the best way to "snipe" is just to shoot around the enemy like a retard, and some of the shots will hit. (this 1 works actually quite well, i can kill an enemy in an average of 4-6 bullets)

[[NE]Fobby[GEN]]

I like Renegade X a lot better, apart from the client side hit detection and smaller numbers. But hey, we're only half done the mod, it gets better every build & the UDK version is something to look forward to.

[SkeetrPan]

QUOTE (R315r4z0r @ Jan 24 2010, 04:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

People on Renegade X can't help but flock to the server with the highest ping to me.[/b]

Fixed.

[AlienXServers]

[RABBLE]

I agree with some people here.

Renegade-X has got its infintary lag issues, but if you go and play UT3 you cant hit anything for shit... so quite frankly its just the netcode of the game that cannot handle a ping of over 80ish, it cannot keep bullets in sync to when you acctually pressed the left mouse button.

And - because of this you do find yourself shooting in the direction they are walking.

Renegade had a completely different bullet system, the bullets were client side, the damage was client side, the rate of fire was client side - damn well everything was, which made it possible to make client sided damage cheats by modifying game files.

With Renegade, when you click - a bullet came out, your clients controlled bullet would hit a player, your client would tell the server this and the server would tell the other person that "You have been hit for x damage" and their client's HUD would change to whatever hp is left after the hit has taken place...

With Renegade-X, when you click - a message is sent to the server saying "i want to fire", a message is sent back to the client saying "Fire away" - this takes 2x the amount of ping time you have, because a reply message has to be sent, once a bullet hits the player (normally server sided detection - not sure at how renegade-x handles it), the server notifies the client and yadda yadda.

Remember that UT3's servers acctually load the game world, where as Renegade's ones do not, sure they do to an extent but they do not load bullet travel lines and vehicle projectiles in real time, where ut3 does.

[/RABBLE]

[Qbert987]

well we could make ren-x a 2 and make a good single player someday in the future

[Retrofraction]

Renegade X was a good idea, but a miss on trying to get the target audience to switch.

I think that the reason Renegade was so much fun was because it did have flaws and Glitches.

Not that i CHEAT its just with the server is sort of kill joy when making sure that no one can exploit a hole in the enemy's defense system to sneak a engineer into their base while no one was looking.

Graphically I can understand the remixes you have done to the original game but some how these remixes have lost the retro-ness of renegade.

you might want to consider switching your HUDs back to the original ones and make the buying screen the EXACTLY the same but with new pictures.

One thing to point out is that Renegade is an old game that does not take a lot of CPU power or internet speed, and you sort of alienated the main fan group by using the UT3 engine witch is not quite as bad as the Crisis engine. I have a feeling that most of the people still playing renegade are using sub par computers that probably cannot run UT3

I have never played a game of UT3 without some lag even on a 3mb connection, but with the original Renegade I was still able to play well with 8 players on dial-up 56k. My grand parents still use 56k. . .

[L0rd0wnt]

I think Renegade x would be alot more fun if Nod didn't win 90% of the games....

I played 8 games in a row a few days ago and Nod won every freaking time. Why even bother trying as GDI?

[bali]

"I have a feeling that most of the people still playing renegade are using sub par computers that probably cannot run UT3"

that's true, but there are gamers, who played ren, liked it, but dont play it anymore, because of the outdated graphics. RenX is perfect for them imo.

"Not that i CHEAT its just with the server is sort of kill joy when making sure that no one can exploit a hole in the enemy's defense system to sneak a engineer into their base while no one was looking."

still there , obby is really out-playable. i like to sneak in the base of nod with a hotti blow pp up on under, and win the game with this move. but the AGT seems more powerful in RenX, so nod lack most of these tactics. (hmm... cant imagine if GDI would have any chance against Nod then)

"you might want to consider switching your HUDs back to the original ones and make the buying screen the EXACTLY the same but with new pictures."

the old hud wasnt that much better, i think the renX team can come up with something better. ( http://media.moddb.com/... <-could u make this hud? maybe with some bigger hp bars. or an option for custom hud)

the pt feels perfect to me. i like it even more than the orignal ren verson.

"I think Renegade x would be alot more fun if Nod didn't win 90% of the games....

I played 8 games in a row a few days ago and Nod won every freaking time. Why even bother trying as GDI?"

well... its just 0.50. and it improved a lot since 0.35 :lol:

(on under, and hourglass, the matches are pretty even. maybe on horologe too)

[bug]

I think the hud is okay,

and I think there shouldn't be an option for costom huds (maybe make it possible though to move parts of the hud, or even hide parts so you can chose what you need and where you like to have stuff like radar and hp bar)

But it's unnecessary to add (advantage) stuff to your hud like building bars etc, learn to play the game without knowing everything by just watching your hud. (probably people are going to complain about my opinion there but this is just what I think)

Maybe people don't like renegade X because they don't have the advantage they had in renegade, renegade X is harder then.

Ofcourse, skins and mods are cool, but some (if not most) are using skins and mods to see things easier and know more than they should unlike other players.

Anyway,

I like Renegade X, and I'm looking forward to the next updates.

For now it's not that addictive as Renegade is, I have no idea why, probably because of the amount of players atm, but that'll change after every update (I believe since 0.50 came out, more and more people are playing RenX which is a good thing).

Maybe not to many people play RenX because it is 'different' than what they are used to, the moving/driving/aiming etc, some just can't accept changes (for now) and stay on Renegade.

Keep up the good work

[R315r4z0r]

With every build, more and more people join. But everyone tends to flock to the MP gaming servers because of their name.

In Renegade, Reborn and APB, the MP Gaming servers are excellent. There is no noticable lag and there usually many people playing. However, ping is much more sensitive in UT3 than it is in Renegade. Many of us on the western side of the Atlantic have lag issues with the MP gaming servers on Renegade X.

Don't get me wrong, they aren't bad servers. They are excellent fun. I just wish that there was another popular server closer to where I live.

[maty]

Can I just mention:

We're not even 50% of the way as a mod build.

And we are now porting to the UDK. We start from scratch again. We're back down to like 5% completed now.

Comments are welcome but please bare in mind when dicussing about "converting people" etc., that we are not finished yet, not even by a long shot. G'ief!

And lag is the server's fault. Not our's =/.

[Jngdwe]

I think improving net-code should be a primary objective for the dev team. At the very least make client side hit detection such as whats used in all of the Call of Duty games, it works very well and we do have admins in servers for a reason.

Cheats aren't much of a problem anyway, seeing as the game recognizes modified files and will refuse to load them for a server.

the current net-code is cause for low player counts per server. Look at it this way; Players in one area of the USA will have good ping to MP gaming, while others will not. In renegade those players are able to join and play together, because the ping does not matter nearly as much. In Renegade-X they will find it very difficult and even annoying to try playing in the same server because of 100+ pings as opposed to 30-60.

I'm not saying that this should be done immediately, but it should become a priority.

[bali]

QUOTE (Jngdwe @ Jan 26 2010, 04:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think improving net-code should be a primary objective for the dev team. At the very least make client side hit detection such as whats used in all of the Call of Duty games, it works very well and we do have admins in servers for a reason.[/b]

It would be the best solution, but is it possible? UDK adds many new possibilities to the devs, but the sourcecode of UE3 isn't open. so the devs would need to write an entirely new netcode system, and integrate it to the mod without knowing the exact sourcecode. I'm curios what a dev can say about it.

[kenz3001]

QUOTE (bali @ Jan 26 2010, 10:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It would be the best solution, but is it possible? UDK adds many new possibilities to the devs, but the sourcecode of UE3 isn't open. so the devs would need to write an entirely new netcode system, and integrate it to the mod without knowing the exact sourcecode. I'm curios what a dev can say about it.[/b]

i have see some heavily-modified versions of the unreal 3 engine (Medal of Honor's single-player campaign being 1) as the UDK is now free to use by developers so it must be open for editing too (not 100% on that) and having the dev team re writing the net code would be asking alot ... i dont mind the "lag" it puts alot more skill in to the game ... and its a bit more life like, you carnt aim at some 1 moving over 100 metters away and hit them in real life you have to aim infront of them, yes not by as much as you do in the game lol

you can revert all programs back to sourcecode ... you just need to know the language it was writen in (dasm. is a good 1 but i have only used this on mac) i do not recomend exploiting this, but it is handy to see how things can be done (dont just copy and paste code its not fair on devs for all there hard work)

btw new beta of the udk is out 2010 version
link:
http://www.udk.com/news-beta-jan2010.html

[Pr0eX]

Actually we cant (=won't) "rewrite" the netcode of UE3, also the netcode is very well and way easier to detect/prevent cheats as it is on the W3D engine.

For sure we can change some parts (like making more at the clientside), so it will be faster, but we wont, its simply because we dont have the time, but we will optimize (some parts) so it will be fast enough to enjoy the game without "lag".

Also the lag that was caused in our UT3 version, is not really all lag, the char animations are not really ours (using the UT3 once seems like lag/hopping to me), sometimes the server is overloaded (like it was last time with 20ppl) and so on...

PS. nowadays its totally nonsense to discuss such things, as nearly everyone got a fast connection, wich can handle up to 32ppl on the UT3(version) without lag at all (just need a moderate server).

[R315r4z0r]

I realize that lag is the server's problem and not the actual game's, however as it stands at the moment, I would much rather risk the game being overrun with cheaters than bare the horrible hit detection lag.

Playing with cheaters is more fun than not being able to play at all.

[Retrofraction]

yeah defenatly need to work on the net code, cause it makes this game close to unplayable

[Jngdwe]

I think the majority of players can agree that Renegade just isn't the same with Unreals horrible hit detection. Despite what the devs may think, the mod would most likely die out if not for fans driving the team to do a better job. You have to work with the fans desires to some degree, to improve the playability and enjoyability of the mod, or people will lose interest.

PS: Please fix the loading times, my old rig takes about 5-10 minutes to load a map. I shouldn't have to wait this long to enjoy renX with already terrible performance ingame. Especially when UT3 itself has comparable graphics and loads its biggest maps in under 1 minute for me.

[[NE]Fobby[GEN]]

It's not about the fans "pushing the team to do a better job", there are certain things we cannot control - at least not right now - one of which is the server side hit detection. We're still looking into ways to make it client side, but for now I think it's hard coded into UT3 and not under the team's control. I think the main problem is numbers - SSHD isn't so bad if you're playing in a server that's close by. The reason why people are complaining about it is because throughout most of the day, just one server is being used. The MP server is great and I love the people, but it's in Amsterdam, so most North Americans with high speed internet get around 250 ping, resulting in the terrible hit detection for laggers. If we had more players (which is expected to at least double when our UDK version comes out), we can populate a U.S server. Whenever I do play on Borgamers, for example, my ping's around 50 and hit detection is almost instant.

Anyway, load times for me are honestly just 10-15 seconds.

[thrash300]

What the mod team is doing requires lots of coding and testing. Not to mention a lot of know how and a lot of patience to go with that, it takes time to make noticeable improvements.

[NodCommander]

Though im looking forward to next release, im NOT looking forward to times when I have to play in an american based server..

Hm.. Its kind of funny, in almost all games, esoecialy those who are created by a game company and sold, have dedicated servers in america, which Europeans and Asians have to live with without complain much. But when a game suddenly gets its main server in Europe or any other place, then there are complains at once <_<

[[NE]Fobby[GEN]]

QUOTE (Atlas Tasume @ Feb 4 2010, 04:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Though im looking forward to next release, im NOT looking forward to times when I have to play in an american based server..
Hm.. Its kind of funny, in almost all games, esoecialy those who are created by a game company and sold, have dedicated servers in america, which Europeans and Asians have to live with without complain much. But when a game suddenly gets its main server in Europe or any other place, then there are complains at once <_<[/b]

The most popular server is in Amsterdam and due to MP's dedication to this mod, that won't change soon. I think the goal is to have two populated servers instead of just one at most times - and I can see this happening with the UDK release.

[NodCommander]

I wont expect anything less from [MP]