Hourglass hill camping.

[epicelite]

I think the map would be 100X better if neither side could camp on top of the hill, at least make the ob/AGT able to shoot up there. :angry:

[[NE]Fobby[GEN]]

Hill camping spreads the team around, making it easier for rushes to take place. I used to run a Renegade server with the no-hillcamping rule, and all people did was camp at their base and the sides. Nothing really happened. Hillcamping makes rushes from the side plausible.

[zunnie]

I love hillcamping

[R315r4z0r]

I love Hillcamping too.

Too bad that this rendition of Hourglass doesn't really support it very well.

Teams (and by teams, I mean Nod) can have better luck attacking from the sides of the map and out of any potential danger the base defense might cause (as if it could if it wanted to)

I really think that Hourglass needs to go through some balance redesigns. It looks beautiful... but doesn't play very well. I don't think I've ever seen GDI win on it except for when they were fighting a completely incompetent team.

Nod beats GDI on this map in:

-Range

-Production velocity

-Rush effectiveness

-Automatic base defenses

-Base positioning

I don't think GDI has a single redeeming quality on this map that Nod can't match or outclass.

[punko24]

Well, GDI mrls can hit every person and tank inside nods base without getting shot :/that needs to be fixed, only things that should be hit from hill long range is Ref,PP,maby7 WF but prob not base defrence,

[R315r4z0r]

QUOTE (punko24 @ Nov 7 2009, 09:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, GDI mrls can hit every person and tank inside nods base without getting shot :/that needs to be fixed, only things that should be hit from hill long range is Ref,PP,maby7 WF but prob not base defrence,[/b]

QUOTE (R315r4z0r @ Nov 7 2009, 09:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think GDI has a single redeeming quality on this map that Nod can't match or outclass.[/b]

The GDI MRLS is the ONLY GDI vehicle capable of attacking any Nod structure without being seen by the Obelisk. Nod can attack all of GDI's base with their Artillery from the same angles the GDI MRLS can attack Nod's. The plus is, Nod can also use other vehicles, for example the light tank, to attack GDI structures without the AGT seeing them.

Meaning, Nod can do exactly what GDI can do with their Artillery but they can also do more with other vehicles -- thus putting GDI at a disadvantage again.

[epicelite]

Also with the arty, u can be aiming right at something and have the reticle red, but the shells will fly right over it by a good bit. :angry:

[Havoc89]

Welcome to hourglass.

[Guest]

Well if you mean camping as NOD on the sides...

teehee

[TigerXtrm]

I hate Hourglass for that single reason. It's a debate that has gone back and forth since the creation of Renegade and everyone has their own view on it but I think it sucks. Whoever holds the hill can deliver a constant barrage of damage without a quick way for the opposing team to stop it since you actually have to get up on the hill the even be able to see the enemy. 9 out of 10 Hourglass matches are won on points, I've seen it happen like that in Renegade and I see it happening again in Renegade X.

However I don't think it should be fixed or anything. We're recreating Renegade so that also means we'll see it's flaws pop up.

[IronWarrior]

QUOTE (zunnie @ Nov 7 2009, 07:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I love hillcamping [/b]

Me too.

People need to stop crying about it and just become better players, learn to deal with tactics and how to counter them.

[TeamWolf]

QUOTE (Havoc89 @ Nov 8 2009, 05:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Welcome to hourglass.[/b]

Pretty much sums it up.

[Guest]

Hill campers are mostly unaware of enemie's snipers.

If someone is hillcamping, you can just sneak in a corner and kill him...

[Demigan]

QUOTE (IronWarrior @ Nov 8 2009, 06:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Me too.

People need to stop crying about it and just become better players, learn to deal with tactics and how to counter them.[/b]

What's so tactical about standing on a hill all game long and shooting a few buildings with a tiny tiny hope to destroy one? All it does is make the game boring. There HAVE to be a few people repairing all game long if nod gets the hill. And the problem is, there are too few options of getting the hill back short of a full scale rush at the arty's. Which will probably fail as they would be able to concentrate their firepower much better then teh rushing team can.

I especially hate it when I manage to infiltrate a building, kill the repair crew and then have some lame ass camper claim he's oh so good cos he destroyed a building and has so many points to prove he's good. What's he done? He shot a MASSIVE, unmoving target all game, shot anything comming up hill which barely takes any skill and repaired if he gets a little damaged.

I would prefer it if the hill became THE tactical advantage for rushes, not for mindless acts that can last whole games.

Yours sincerely,
Demigan.

[Jointn00b]

QUOTE (Demigan @ Nov 8 2009, 10:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What's so tactical about standing on a hill all game long and shooting a few buildings with a tiny tiny hope to destroy one? All it does is make the game boring. There HAVE to be a few people repairing all game long if nod gets the hill. And the problem is, there are too few options of getting the hill back short of a full scale rush at the arty's. Which will probably fail as they would be able to concentrate their firepower much better then teh rushing team can.

I especially hate it when I manage to infiltrate a building, kill the repair crew and then have some lame ass camper claim he's oh so good cos he destroyed a building and has so many points to prove he's good. What's he done? He shot a MASSIVE, unmoving target all game, shot anything comming up hill which barely takes any skill and repaired if he gets a little damaged.

I would prefer it if the hill became THE tactical advantage for rushes, not for mindless acts that can last whole games.

Yours sincerely,
Demigan.[/b]

Amen to that. I've had way to many 'OMG I KILLED TEH BUILDING CUZ U N00B COULDN'T REPIAR IT!!!' quotes while the rest of the team was busy killing the crew repairing the building lol :lol:

[DXR_13KE]

Now imagine doing the same without the guys shooting at the building.

[R315r4z0r]

Entertainment value has nothing to do with tactical value.

Attacking from the hill is a favorable tactic because it gives you a good advantage over the other team. The hilltop is a strategic point of the map that should be battled over.

I think that it would be more fun to battle for it if the enemy's base defense didn't protect the aggressors. I think a small little down hill on top of the big hill could be used for battling without either team's defenses being able to fire on anyone. Only when you move into attacking positions would the defenses see you. (However, I don't think that Hourglass should be edited that way because it's supposed to be the same as it was in Renegade. But it should be edited in order to make it more like it was in Renegade because it's really different at the moment.)

[Demigan]

QUOTE (DXR_13KE @ Nov 8 2009, 11:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now imagine doing the same without the guys shooting at the building.[/b]

Then there wouldn't be any opposition as I place my c4 on the MCT and blow it to hell?
Or I wouldn't be killing repaircrews, but organising a full scale rush which is now possible because our limit isn't lowered by some vehicles standing on hill all game long. There have been lots and lots of games where just 3 rushes got the first building destroyed, the rest following later.

Yours sincerely,
Demigan.

[TigerXtrm]

QUOTE (R315r4z0r @ Nov 9 2009, 03:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Entertainment value has nothing to do with tactical value.

Attacking from the hill is a favorable tactic because it gives you a good advantage over the other team. The hilltop is a strategic point of the map that should be battled over.[/b]

It does the trick of keeping half the enemy team in their base, yes. Is it fun or entertaining for the other team? No. There is no more fun in repairing a building for 30 minutes than there is in shooting it from a hill.

Winning Hourglass based on points is meaningless in my opinion. Could just as well be a tie. If by the end of the round all the buildings are still standing you've accomplished absolutely nothing, and that's exactly what happens 9 of 10 times. If the people camping on the hill would participate in organizing an actual tactical rush, it would be much more fun for both teams.

[R315r4z0r]

I think it's fun...

[TigerXtrm]

Unless you're the one in the building repairing, right?

[MecanicalMan]

Ahh Hourglass, the marmite of Renegade. What it needs is etheir a larger hill top, so the hill campers arn't so well protected by thier own base defences. Or enable the B/D to attack vehicles up there, leaving it a sniper zone or a rush path. Or add an acess from the tunnels, I.E. a lift. This would make the tunnels useful, and means the hill campers can be flankedand attacked without them just pounding the oppnents before they got to grips.

Also ive always felt that thats Nods turrets and Obby BD's where always better that GDi's one AGT. On some maps ,Hourglass for one,

GDi's Base is always a more exposed. Attack the Nod base from the side and a turret would hold you off for a time, and even alert the defenders to your attack. But the GDi base? Nice and safe for you to shell the base, while they first have to find where you are, and then try to get to you before you spot them and withdraw. I always liked the MG towers on Glacier and some fan map, they mean attackers have to split their fire, or take a beating while they try to kill the main defence (AGT/Obby). Adding them to some maps would give GDi a better chance.

O=MecanicalMan=C

[R315r4z0r]

QUOTE (TigerXtrm @ Nov 10 2009, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unless you're the one in the building repairing, right?[/b]

No, I'm the only one who ever DOES repair.

[Demigan]

QUOTE (MecanicalMan @ Nov 10 2009, 11:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

O=MecanicalMan=C[/b]

The turrets of Nod were always a bit useless, too little attacks and too easily evaded. On top of that, Nod has that MASSIVE airstrip which can be shot safely in almost every map without the base defences shooting you (hourglass and field are exceptions)

The base defences are quite balanced in my opinion. The AGT spots SBH without fail making it harder to use them for infiltration. While GDI CAN infiltrate stealthily through hopping from cover to cover, which is a great risk but so much more fun to accomplish. The AGT is a lot weaker vs vehicles as a result, along with the fact that a fullscale rush will divide the damage over several vehicles instead of concentrated on one.

As for razor, I would like you to explain to me what is so fun about standing on hill all game long holding the trigger with that rare chance to actually destroy something? I can't see it myself, please enlighten me to all that fun. No sarcasm intended.

Yours sincerely,
Demigan.

[DaemonicKnight]

Well I think AGT needs a bit more firepower. Reason? 1 APC can get to the AGT with nearly 1/4 of its hp left and OBE can fire 2 shots and the APC is dead without it even getting near the obe. Fair? Don't think so..

[Demigan]

QUOTE (DaemonicKnight @ Nov 11 2009, 06:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I think AGT needs a bit more firepower. Reason? 1 APC can get to the AGT with nearly 1/4 of its hp left and OBE can fire 2 shots and the APC is dead without it even getting near the obe. Fair? Don't think so..[/b]

On most maps the OB can be reached before he fires a second time, so then you get an APC with 1/2 of his health intact at the base defence. Fair? yeah, because if you are that little bit slower then you have no APC at all.

On top of that, GDI is the team with all the firepower. One med can stop a single APC rushing if the base defences are still up. Not to mention the mammoth tank which is pratically only good AS a base defence.

Yours sincerely,
Demigan.

[Gandjak]

ok let me tell you my opinion. When i was playing Old Ren and still in RenX, i've allways been upset by thoose players who totally don't care about defending. So i'm often the only guy who devote himself to do what the others don't want to do : repairing buildings like an idiot, mine entrances, looking for APC rushes etc .. while the others careless partners have all the fun. Last time, for exemple, i've seen a stupid guy repairing his mrls while the factory just behind him was about to be destroyed (and he actually didn't do anything to prevent its destruction !). So, as a veteran base defender, i can say hourglass is a lame map, this hill camping is boring, as you can target several buildings without moving (if you could only target one building it would be ok, several, it's just madness for defenders).

[kenz3001]

hill camping is only good for GDI as there is no good place on the on eather side to take out the obelisk (well on the left with milssile launcher but hard to get it right by witch time you are half dead lol) ... unlike there is as being nod taking out the ATG (left had side can fit about 3 artillary with out being hit by the AGT ... as if you didnt know lol)

so hill camping good or bad .... depens on what side you are on !

GOOD for GDI as the obelisk is slow (shame on nod for not keeping up with the times ... Kane is getting sloppy in his old age)

BAD for nod coz the damb AGT can kill multiple things (shame on GDI taking advantave of technolagy lol)

[frish]

QUOTE (DaemonicKnight @ Nov 11 2009, 05:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I think AGT needs a bit more firepower. Reason? 1 APC can get to the AGT with nearly 1/4 of its hp left and OBE can fire 2 shots and the APC is dead without it even getting near the obe. Fair? Don't think so..[/b]

thats coz the ob is too strong tho, apcs could always get to the defences, and usually there was a way to get in any building

[Jointn00b]

QUOTE (kenz3001 @ Nov 11 2009, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hill camping is only good for GDI as there is no good place on the on eather side to take out the obelisk (well on the left with milssile launcher but hard to get it right by witch time you are half dead lol) ... unlike there is as being nod taking out the ATG (left had side can fit about 3 artillary with out being hit by the AGT ... as if you didnt know lol)

so hill camping good or bad .... depens on what side you are on !

GOOD for GDI as the obelisk is slow (shame on nod for not keeping up with the times ... Kane is getting sloppy in his old age)

BAD for nod coz the damb AGT can kill multiple things (shame on GDI taking advantave of technolagy lol)[/b]

On hourglass Nod has the advantage when it comes to camping. Why? because AGT could NEVER hit you on top of the friggin hill making it easier to just stand op there firing at ref or pp all day long. And even though the AGT can fire at multiple targets the ob makes this up in sheer firepower. basically you get killed just as fast by ob as by the AGT whith the only difference that the ob kills you in 2 shots where the AGT constantly fires at you.

[Demigan]

QUOTE (Jointn00b @ Nov 13 2009, 07:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On hourglass Nod has the advantage when it comes to camping. Why? because AGT could NEVER hit you on top of the friggin hill making it easier to just stand op there firing at ref or pp all day long. And even though the AGT can fire at multiple targets the ob makes this up in sheer firepower. basically you get killed just as fast by ob as by the AGT whith the only difference that the ob kills you in 2 shots where the AGT constantly fires at you.[/b]

This could be remedied in renegade-x. Just as in normal renegade, I expect that the barrel will be sticking out well in the AGT range. Why not have the AGT shoot that? It's a target after all. It probably wouldn't kill any vehicles, but it would force any hillcamper to repair constantly after several moments whoring on the hill. That would put Nod on a more balanced footing with GDI, as GDI gets shot by obi if they stand on top of the hill, but harder.
And both teams will have the same stone that provides cover from the base defence to fire from, making it more balanced, but still in favour of Nod.

Yours sincerely,
Demigan.

[RypeL]

QUOTE (Jointn00b @ Nov 13 2009, 07:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On hourglass Nod has the advantage when it comes to camping. Why? because AGT could NEVER hit you on top of the friggin hill making it easier to just stand op there firing at ref or pp all day long. And even though the AGT can fire at multiple targets the ob makes this up in sheer firepower. basically you get killed just as fast by ob as by the AGT whith the only difference that the ob kills you in 2 shots where the AGT constantly fires at you.[/b]

This was changed for RenX though. In Renegade you could stand on the hill with perfect view on the Nod base without the AGT doing anything. In case you didnt notice in RenX the AGT will attack you much earlier so that you cant camp on the hill like that wihout the AGT firing at you.

[TigerXtrm]

QUOTE (Demigan @ Nov 13 2009, 12:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This could be remedied in renegade-x. Just as in normal renegade, I expect that the barrel will be sticking out well in the AGT range. Why not have the AGT shoot that? It's a target after all. It probably wouldn't kill any vehicles, but it would force any hillcamper to repair constantly after several moments whoring on the hill. That would put Nod on a more balanced footing with GDI, as GDI gets shot by obi if they stand on top of the hill, but harder.
And both teams will have the same stone that provides cover from the base defence to fire from, making it more balanced, but still in favour of Nod.

Yours sincerely,
Demigan.[/b]

Actually you can hit the Obi, Ref and HON perfectly fine from the hill without having to worry about being shot. The MRLS's missile arc makes it possible to hit all of those buildings while staying out of range.

[Magicks]

Tips on how to Command and Conquer on Hourglass for GDI:

1. Mine the AGT and base entrances next to it, APC rush will not succeed as well as they think; If you got actual people who scout and announce enemy movement to your team they shouldnt work at all to begin with.

2. Team work team work team work!!! Repair, Have people hunt em artys,communication.

3. Gunner > Arty, easy pie. Touche

4. You can also grab a med tank to get rid of the corner hugging artys, works like a charm if you can sneak there. Ninjah them tanks. Though a gunner works best of all. One clip of a gunner = Bye bye arty.

5. If the turrets are giving you trouble(Hows this possible) go with a gunner and blow them up. Can be done on both sides without obby shooting ya.

6. Two GDI APCs can make it to obby(turrets operational still) without anyone shooting. Three Or Four Should make it.

-If ya cant get into obby beacon the foot of it.

7. Remember infantry is as valuable as tanks, sure ya get blown up more easily but as I mentioned, Gunners pack a big punch on artys and Flamers for example should they try that.

8. Use brain powar.

9. Beware of Stanks while on hill bombarting enemy base. Stanks got same missile angle effect thus they easily blow up the slow glass cannon vehicles.

10. You can harras with gunners(again,as an example) to shoot at HoN or even obby if you jump behind rock before it charges. Harras,distract,divert.

As for the rest: Ficure it out for yourself.

-Your

[R315r4z0r]

You're missing the point. It's not that people are complaining because it's too much effort for GDI to win, people are complaining because it doesn't require much effort for Nod to win.

GDI has to think. Nod just does whatever.

[thrash300]

People don't like hillcampers is because they don't know how to camp.

[TigerXtrm]

QUOTE (thrash300 @ Nov 14 2009, 03:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

People don't like hillcampers is because they don't know how to camp.[/b]

I know perfectly well how to camp but I try to avoid it whenever I can. Sometimes there is no other choice but to join people on the Hill and shoot rockets at buildings but overall I try other tactics as much as possible. It's a shame you can't hit buildings from the sides anymore (with med tank at least). That used to be my anti-hill camping tactic .

[der Papst]

QUOTE (R315r4z0r @ Nov 14 2009, 12:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

GDI has to think. Nod just does whatever.[/b]

If someone doesn't like games which requires thinking (Renegade requires thinking and teamwork), he should play Counterstrike instead of Renegade...

[TigerXtrm]

QUOTE (der Papst @ Nov 14 2009, 06:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If someone doesn't like games which requires thinking (Renegade requires thinking and teamwork), he should play Counterstrike instead of Renegade...[/b]

I'm with you on that one but it would be nice if both sides had to think instead of just one.

[Demigan]

QUOTE (thrash300 @ Nov 14 2009, 03:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

People don't like hillcampers is because they don't know how to camp.[/b]

I know how to refhop, I know how to hillcamp, I know how to wallhug, but I have never refhopped with the intention to nuke it, I have never hillcamped and I have never wallhugged. Still, i'm usually within the 10 best players of that game, even within the 5 best of that game. even though I don't approve of things like hillcamp and wallhugging as they are more gameplay mistakes then part of the game, I can still get a rush done, kill that last tank or infantry, blow up buildings and get my ass kicked every now and then. That makes the game fun for me, to refrain from abusing faults within the game and beat someone else or get beaten on honest, relatively fair terms.

As for Rikudoom's words:
I have actually never been beaten by a lone gunner with ANY vehicle I had, counting buggy's among them, and when I first started playing renegade, which was when I couldn't even hit someone with a volt rifle if he was standing still. With an arty, I can get away, repair or kill any lone gunner before he destroys my arty.

@TigerXTRM:
True, but what if the obi can shoot at even the tiniest piece showing above the hilltop? Then it would at least get loads harder to do it with MRLS if you aren't hiding behind that stone. It would even things out: Nod can't just hillcamp all game long, GDI can't do the reverse, GDI still has a disadvantage on hourglass which is good as GDI has the advantage in most maps, and GDI will have to use a lot more brains to win, which is double good as Nod now has to do that just as much as GDI. So the biggest problem: people doing nothing but hillcamping all game will be remedied, and hourglass will get a whole lot more dynamic then 'who has the hill'.

I completely agree with Der Papst, if you don't want to think, there's millions of 'shoot, shoot, shoot some more and then keep shooting' games around.

Yours sincerely,
Demigan

[R315r4z0r]

QUOTE (der Papst @ Nov 14 2009, 06:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If someone doesn't like games which requires thinking (Renegade requires thinking and teamwork), he should play Counterstrike instead of Renegade...[/b]

You completely missed the point of what I said. See below.

QUOTE (TigerXtrm @ Nov 14 2009, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm with you on that one but it would be nice if both sides had to think instead of just one.[/b]

This is what I was getting at.

GDI has to think. Nod DOESN'T. The map's so bias in their favor that there is no fun playing on Nod because you know you're going to win.

[TigerXtrm]

QUOTE (R315r4z0r @ Nov 14 2009, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The map's so bias in their favor that there is no fun playing on Nod because you know you're going to win.[/b]

If you call having most points on Hourglass winning...

I enjoy Hourglass most when I'm playing on a marathon server. It forces one of the teams to win by destroying the base, which is a lot harder than just standing on a hill. In fact, I've whooped Nod's ass in every marathon Hourglass match I've played so far.

[der Papst]

I never saw a map in Renegade X where only NOD can win...

The only imba-Map i saw was field in original Renegade.

GDI just had to plant 3 Nukes in tunnel at the beginning, so nod had no money for vehicles and GDI rushed the base without resistance.

(BTW: Nod couldn't nuke a GDI-building from the tunnel)

[R315r4z0r]

QUOTE (TigerXtrm @ Nov 14 2009, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you call having most points on Hourglass winning...

I enjoy Hourglass most when I'm playing on a marathon server. It forces one of the teams to win by destroying the base, which is a lot harder than just standing on a hill. In fact, I've whooped Nod's ass in every marathon Hourglass match I've played so far.[/b]

Don't take what I said too literally. Nothing can be always or never. There will always be some exceptions. What I'm focusing in on is the majority.

The majority of the time on Renegade X's Hourglass results in either:
1. Nod winning by points if GDI has a decent team that knows how to cooperate while they are annihilated.
2. Nod wins by destroying the GDI base.

Most of the time, Nod destroys the base.

The only times I've ever seen GDI win was when the Nod team was completely incompetent.

And another thing: Hill camping has absolutely nothing to do with it.

The point is, there are far too many unfair advantages available to Nod that simply aren't possible as GDI. This results in a much easier game for Nod and a much more difficult game for GDI.

BOTH teams should require teamwork and strategical analysis in order to become victorious. Falsely singling out hill camping and choosing to ignore the completely obvious bias play design of the map is betraying your apparent ideal that the game should value strategy and tactics over 'camping.' (Which is a strategic tactic, by the way.)

-I have won every single match on Hourglass when I joined as Nod. Most of which were via base destruction.
-I have lost the vast majority of matches on Hourglass when I joined as GDI.
-As GDI, I have only won about 3 times, give or take, with points and 1 time with base destruction (and that was when we vastly outnumbered the enemy team and of the people on Nod, they really didn't seem to be paying much attention to anything.)

Don't tell me the map is balanced and fair when it is obviously not. If one team requires more teamwork than the other team to pull off a victory, then there is an obvious flaw in its design. I don't care how many times you claim to have overcame this flaw, the fact remains that there is still a flaw and it needs to be looked into and fixed.

[der Papst]

What are those advantages of NOD?

GDI's artillery fires missiles and have a big advantage over the nod artillery, since the mlrs can hit vehicles on the other side of the hill and every building in the nod-base while standing on the own side of the hill.

Tanks play only a role in rushes, since no tank has enough range to hit a building from top of the hill.

[TigerXtrm]

Nod's arty can hit infantry which the MRLS can't because of the missile arc. 9 out of 10 times the MRLS force is driven off by infantry, not by tanks.

[R315r4z0r]

QUOTE (der Papst @ Nov 15 2009, 12:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What are those advantages of NOD?[/b]

-Nod vehicles can reach GDI's base single handedly. GDI needs a force of about 3 or more to make one vehicle in, if lucky.
-GDI is often forced to chose between only two means of attacking the enemy base: MRLS rush from the sidelines or a gunner rush. Nod has many options available from what GDI is capable of plus much more.
-GDI's main combat vehicles (Medium tank and Mammoth tank) are often out ranged by Nod artilleries, which is statistically Nod's main vehicle of choice. This poor weapon range on GDI's part also causes problems when they attempt to rush the Nod base, as they need to drive almost half way to the Obelisk before they can land a single shell.

To name a few major ones.

The map would be more balanced if more vehicles, not just GDI vehicles, could attack enemy structures from the side lines. The GDI Medium tank, as in Renegade, was able to hit the Hand of Nod from the side closer to the Air Strip.

Even though doing that would also give Nod more things to attack with, GDI's brute force would be accessable, balancing out the game. It gives GDI something else to do other than defend or MRLS rush.

[epicelite]

QUOTE (R315r4z0r @ Nov 9 2009, 07:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it's fun...[/b]

Well then you should also enjoy more mindless repetitive tasks, why not get a job as a dishwasher or something?

[thrash300]

QUOTE (R315r4z0r @ Nov 14 2009, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

-Nod vehicles can reach GDI's base single handedly. GDI needs a force of about 3 or more to make one vehicle in, if lucky.
-GDI is often forced to chose between only two means of attacking the enemy base: MRLS rush from the sidelines or a gunner rush. Nod has many options available from what GDI is capable of plus much more.
-GDI's main combat vehicles (Medium tank and Mammoth tank) are often out ranged by Nod artilleries, which is statistically Nod's main vehicle of choice. This poor weapon range on GDI's part also causes problems when they attempt to rush the Nod base, as they need to drive almost half way to the Obelisk before they can land a single shell.

To name a few major ones.

The map would be more balanced if more vehicles, not just GDI vehicles, could attack enemy structures from the side lines. The GDI Medium tank, as in Renegade, was able to hit the Hand of Nod from the side closer to the Air Strip.

Even though doing that would also give Nod more things to attack with, GDI's brute force would be accessable, balancing out the game. It gives GDI something else to do other than defend or MRLS rush.[/b]

I don't know why everyone is crying about hillcampers all of a sudden, its not like the situation doesen't exist in the current Renegade and there haven't been modifications to prevent it. Interms of increasing the range of the base defences I totally think thats a horrible idea simply because I am sure that it would make a gap when rushing. For example you can have some buggys get shot at a distance then rush the base defences when they are busy trying to pick off the units at a distance, and it opens the possibilities for glitching people getting in range and quickly getting away would definatly cause some problems in the server.

[R315r4z0r]

Did you even read what you quoted or did you just make it up as you went along then quoted me for good measure?

Seriously, what are you talking about? Lol.