Hud.

[thrash300]

Im not liking it:

Can we NOT have a transparent Hud and stick to the one closer to what we have now (Original Renegade)?.

[CrazyAndy]

Hey remember to be specific when writing critique. I also prefer the old hud better. It was the one with white texts and building bars (it doesn't have to have them though). It was pretty clear and cool looking. Maybe you could have a couple of huds where people could choose the one they prefer if possible.

(//offtopic, this is also my first time I see flame tank in action, everything seems great except it looks a bit too shiny on sides offtopic//)

QUOTE (thrash300 @ Jun 1 2009, 07:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Im not liking it:

Can we NOT have a transparent Hud and stick to the one closer to what we have now (Original Renegade)?.[/b]

[neagu]

Bigger ss, better

[dyslexicdavey]

i really like it, all the info you need but not too much, maybe the radar is a bit big to me and i do not like the red, but way more useful! it all so fits much more with the the ren-x look thin the ren look would IMO. The transparent part is something different too but with out trying both i can really say any thing but its a big step in the right way from what i can see!

[WNxBoMbZu]

I think its a great design.

Specially because it only displays the info that's needed and no artwork around it

[[NE]Fobby[GEN]]

QUOTE

Im not liking it:[/b]

Could you pose a better argument than "I don't like it"?

Not switching back the the old HUD because there is no point. As I already stated elsewhere, the new HUD is a modernized take on the original. And fyi, the layout and general shape of the HUD is almost exactly the same. You're comaplaining about how it no longer looks like a floating button but rather an actual digital heads up display. There isn't even any new information on the HUD that you cannot access anyways in Ren. So again, quit complaining.

[Qbert987]

I agree on both points. The original had more detail, maybe because Havoc never wore a helmet with a display. also, i like how it still has all of the info that was in the original.

[WNxBoMbZu]

Isnt the renegade hud supposed to be the EVA Havoc wears on his arm?

[scensorECHO]

i just want to change the color. thats the only problem i have with it.

[MightyBOB]

This HUD is frakking atrocious.

The layout and design are great, I love those, but the entire damn thing is monotone and transparent which is the WORST POSSIBLE implementation from a graphic design standpoint. The entire thing blends together and completely lacks readability (and I mean visual readability, not text).

Look at it in grayscale, everything is almost a uniform brightness and tone. There is no visual way to attract the eye to any particular part of the HUD (because it is monotone) except for building health because it is a different color. (But that doesn't apply in the grayscale because it is the same value as the red, and what about red/green colorblind people?)

Can't, because it all blends together both with itself and with the terrain under it (this especially applies to GDI because a yellow HUD on desert sand is ass). This clashes horribly and makes the HUD unreadable. The player doesn't know which part to look at first because their eye cannot be drawn to any particular point as it is all the same color.[/b]

* You are able to scan the piece and understand what it means, without having to backtrack or scrutinize it Again, it all blends together.

* The key information is easy to find, and easy to read. Important items are larger, while less important details take up less space. Blends together making the entire thing unnoticeable because nothing special stands out.

* There are no needlessly distracting elements on the page.

Good layout is carefully engineered for usability and readability and will be easy to interact with. Bad layout is tedious and disorganized.[/b]

QUOTE

Colour is vital to design. Used well, it can be immensely powerful: colour can suggest feeling, inspire emotion, and align itself with certain principles. Colour is also very important for direction, and these types of associations are built into modern civilization: green means go, red means stop.

Good designers take full advantage of the power of colour, and the psychological and physiological effect colour has on us. This HUD takes no advantage of color. It has no depth.

Using smart visual cues can provide direction and enhance communication. When you are deciding if a work of graphic design is good or bad, here are a few questions to ask:

* How does the colour make you feel? For instance, the colour blue can often make one feel cold, while green can create a feeling of calm.

* What are the existing connotations brought up by the colour used? Do these associations enhance or destroy the message? Why are the health and armor Red (yellow on the GDI HUD)? Green indicates safety, Yellow approaches danger, and Red indicates extreme danger and the player will react as such

* Is the colour used consistently? For instance, if a particular shade is introduced in the logo or the main image, is it continued throughout the rest of the piece?

* Are the colours used harmoniously? If the design piece employs multiple colours, make sure that colours match well, and don’t create awkward clashes.[/b]

QUOTE

Intense colour attracts the eye, and the greater the area, the stronger the attraction. Too many intense colours attract the eye in too many directions, and the technique loses its potential effectiveness. This is basic Color Theory 101. Intense colors attract the eye so only use them on the most important parts.[/b]

There are no dominant features with the color choice used in this HUD. Dominant, intense features should attract the eye the most and provide information at a glance. The player should not have to stare at the HUD to differentiate it from the terrain underneath of it.

QUOTE

*Eyes naturally scan left to right.

*Details and Depth within elements of design are noticed before items lacking depth.

*The bigger a graphic or image, the longer the user will fixate on it.

*Eyes always lock on the most noticeable aspect, for example color within a grey-toned website.[/b]

Suggestions for fixes:

*Reduce transparency. I'm not saying get rid of it, but make the HUD more solid than it is currently.

*USE MORE THAN ONE COLOR. Health should be represented in the traditional trifecta of G-Y-R. Use different colors to highlight different functions. For example, if the HUD were more solid instead of a projection from the aether, more grays and blacks could be used. The mine count could be given a goldenrod back-tint since mines have a yellow texture. Time remaining, compass direction, and Credits could be white as they are more arbitrary values than something solid like the number of mines or vehicle count. The actual icons for these like the little mine image or tank image could be presented as solid more detailed images. Colors used within graphics, backgrounds, and elements are meant to enhance the look of the interface, not to take over the interface.

*Make use of highlights and shadows.

*Reduce saturation of transparent areas leaving saturation for important details that should quickly draw the user's eye.

*Increase contrast ratio between different HUD elements (and between the HUD and the actual terrain, possibly via a darker background or shadow under the HUD) so it doesn't blend together.

*Make use of basic Color Theory: analogous, complementary, split-complementary, triadic color schemes; luminance/value scale (a measurement of how much light is being reflected from a hue; tint/shade); tone scale (A tone is a hue that has had grey added to it. A tone can also be a hue with a large percentage of its complementary color added. ).

[scensorECHO]

QUOTE (Mighty BOB! @ Jun 1 2009, 08:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Suggestions for fixes:
*Reduce transparency. I'm not saying get rid of it, but make the HUD more solid than it is currently.
*USE MORE THAN ONE COLOR. Health should be represented in the traditional trifecta of G-Y-R. Use different colors to highlight different functions. For example, if the HUD were more solid instead of a projection from the aether, more grays and blacks could be used. The mine count could be given a goldenrod back-tint since mines have a yellow texture. Time remaining, compass direction, and Credits could be white as they are more arbitrary values than something solid like the number of mines or vehicle count. The actual icons for these like the little mine image or tank image could be presented as solid more detailed images. Colors used within graphics, backgrounds, and elements are meant to enhance the look of the interface, not to take over the interface.
*Make use of highlights and shadows.
*Reduce saturation of transparent areas leaving saturation for important details that should quickly draw the user's eye.
*Increase contrast ratio between different HUD elements (and between the HUD and the actual terrain, possibly via a darker background or shadow under the HUD) so it doesn't blend together.
*Make use of basic Color Theory: analogous, complementary, split-complementary, triadic color schemes; luminance/value scale (a measurement of how much light is being reflected from a hue; tint/shade); tone scale (A tone is a hue that has had grey added to it. A tone can also be a hue with a large percentage of its complementary color added. ).[/b]

Theres a great plan. I like this guy. :lol:
I really do agree, the monotone and especially the lone RED when your entire base and character and vehicle layout is RED is atrocious.
^^^HIS IDEA ALL THE WAY!!!^^^^

[neagu]

Very good arguments, i'm in favor of this change.

There is maty happy now ?

[maty]

My solution to all HUD problems for any game:

NO HUD!!! HARDCORRREE!!!!

p.s. you dont ned to quote the whole long argument with the pictures in your reply, it was already tl;dr before you did that!

[thrash300]

QUOTE (Mighty BOB! @ Jun 1 2009, 08:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This HUD is frakking atrocious.

The layout and design are great, I love those, but the entire damn thing is monotone and transparent which is the WORST POSSIBLE implementation from a graphic design standpoint. The entire thing blends together and completely lacks readability (and I mean visual readability, not text).

Look at it in grayscale, everything is almost a uniform brightness and tone. There is no visual way to attract the eye to any particular part of the HUD (because it is monotone) except for building health because it is a different color. (But that doesn't apply in the grayscale because it is the same value as the red, and what about red/green colorblind people?)

[/size]
*Reduce transparency. I'm not saying get rid of it, but make the HUD more solid than it is currently.
*USE MORE THAN ONE COLOR. Health should be represented in the traditional trifecta of G-Y-R. Use different colors to highlight different functions. For example, if the HUD were more solid instead of a projection from the aether, more grays and blacks could be used. The mine count could be given a goldenrod back-tint since mines have a yellow texture. Time remaining, compass direction, and Credits could be white as they are more arbitrary values than something solid like the number of mines or vehicle count. The actual icons for these like the little mine image or tank image could be presented as solid more detailed images. Colors used within graphics, backgrounds, and elements are meant to enhance the look of the interface, not to take over the interface.
*Make use of highlights and shadows.
*Reduce saturation of transparent areas leaving saturation for important details that should quickly draw the user's eye.
*Increase contrast ratio between different HUD elements (and between the HUD and the actual terrain, possibly via a darker background or shadow under the HUD) so it doesn't blend together.
*Make use of basic Color Theory: analogous, complementary, split-complementary, triadic color schemes; luminance/value scale (a measurement of how much light is being reflected from a hue; tint/shade); tone scale (A tone is a hue that has had grey added to it. A tone can also be a hue with a large percentage of its complementary color added. ).[/b]

Image to links broken, please post to forums, or upload to imageshack.

[DXR_13KE]

i agree with Mighty BOB.

[MightyBOB]

QUOTE (thrash300 @ Jun 2 2009, 12:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Image to links broken, please post to forums, or upload to imageshack.[/b]

They're forum attachments. There's no links to be broken. Maybe try a different browser?

[a000clown]

QUOTE (Mighty BOB! @ Jun 2 2009, 05:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They're forum attachments. There's no links to be broken. Maybe try a different browser?[/b]

The forum tells me I don't have permission to view them.


Only thing I don't like about the HUD is the radar, it looks too big and bulky and doesn't really flow with the rest of the design. I'm sure if I was playing RenX on a regular basis I'd get used to it though so no biggie.

[MightyBOB]

How about now? I fiddled with the Member permissions.

[scensorECHO]

yeah its working for me. i still agree thats some different colors should be used. the monotone is killer. in a bad way...

[a000clown]

QUOTE (Mighty BOB! @ Jun 2 2009, 05:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How about now? I fiddled with the Member permissions.[/b]

Much better thanks

[thrash300]

QUOTE (scensorECHO @ Jun 2 2009, 08:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeah its working for me. i still agree thats some different colors should be used. the monotone is killer. in a bad way...[/b]

To be honest, the flame tank looks a bit fruity the barrels at the end should be more.......wide and visible from 3rd person view, and the back of it looks too big. When was watchin some of the trailers, it looked as if all the things in, especially the units and vehicles, looked like they were made out of plato.

Great trailer: Linky LOL at 1:14 SBH appears with.........RAM JET! I hope that's not its default weapon for the mod :V

[DeathNSmalDoses]

QUOTE (thrash300 @ Jun 3 2009, 10:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To be honest, the flame tank looks a bit fruity the barrels at the end should be more.......wide and visible from 3rd person view, and the back of it looks too big. When was watchin some of the trailers, it looked as if all the things in, especially the units and vehicles, looked like they were made out of plato.

Great trailer: Linky LOL at 1:14 SBH appears with.........RAM JET! I hope that's not its default weapon for the mod :V[/b]

I totaly agree with Mighty bob on this one

P.S its me Noxblade but some reason cant gain access on my old account even with password change. O well

[Mr. Weedy]

I agree that the HUD could use a few more colors. Not many more though. Like, different colors for text and numbers and amount bars.

Also I would like to see less fuzzyness in it. When I looked at that 1040x804 picture, the HUD seemed to be overly fuzzy compared to the playing area scene.

I think this could be fixed with adding black/grey edges to all important texts, numbers and what not you'll need to see. And when I took a look to the first gray scale of Mighty Bob's hud picture and I didn't look at the very first picture, I didn't even find the hud at first. I only saw the radar there and I was all like: "That's it?"

I have to agree with others, it needs work so it doesn't blend so well with the playing area.

Otherwise it's very nice.

[MightyBOB]

Ooh yeah a dark border pixel outline is a good idea.

[thrash300]

I demand another trailer be made!!

But interms of looks, you guys are doing great, everything is exceeding my expectations, besides the plato thing...

[DXR_13KE]

Can i suggest doing something similar to the next picture?

quick gimp job, the A=alt, C= control, CA= control + alt, just to help the newbies and the old and rusty out.

Please debate, modify, change, vandalise, eviscerate and post a superior version if you wish, or just disregard this post.

[spellman23]

QUOTE (Mighty BOB! @ Jun 1 2009, 06:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Suggestions for fixes:
*Reduce transparency. I'm not saying get rid of it, but make the HUD more solid than it is currently.
*USE MORE THAN ONE COLOR. Health should be represented in the traditional trifecta of G-Y-R. Use different colors to highlight different functions. For example, if the HUD were more solid instead of a projection from the aether, more grays and blacks could be used. The mine count could be given a goldenrod back-tint since mines have a yellow texture. Time remaining, compass direction, and Credits could be white as they are more arbitrary values than something solid like the number of mines or vehicle count. The actual icons for these like the little mine image or tank image could be presented as solid more detailed images. Colors used within graphics, backgrounds, and elements are meant to enhance the look of the interface, not to take over the interface.
*Make use of highlights and shadows.
*Reduce saturation of transparent areas leaving saturation for important details that should quickly draw the user's eye.
*Increase contrast ratio between different HUD elements (and between the HUD and the actual terrain, possibly via a darker background or shadow under the HUD) so it doesn't blend together.
*Make use of basic Color Theory: analogous, complementary, split-complementary, triadic color schemes; luminance/value scale (a measurement of how much light is being reflected from a hue; tint/shade); tone scale (A tone is a hue that has had grey added to it. A tone can also be a hue with a large percentage of its complementary color added. ).[/b]

Hm, it's almost like this guy has taken an actual UI class.

I agree completely. Also, some of the text could be larger or make sure it scale dynamically with screen resolution. There's nothing worse than unreadable text because the UI person forgot to scale it up.

[Jngdwe]

I also think that the HUD could use a reworking. Perhaps the transparent style isn't such a good idea, considering the difficulty with seeing in some maps. The current HUD actually looks fine, and on a sudden burst of genius, I would like to suggest some Gaussian Blurring behind the hud, most likely starting strong around the hud, then getting less powerful as it goes out, no more than 20 pixels away from the edge of the HUD pieces. Then darken everything behind the blurring by 50%

I'll attach a rough example of the effect. (this is only the blur and darken, not the smoothed edges around the HUD that i suggested)

You can easily notice how easy it is to see against the background in the screenshot, and its much easier on the eyes. I think it would work well with much of mighty bobs suggestion.

[ArcticPrism]

I'm going to agree with Mighty BOB. The hud is much too transparent. It blends in with the surroundings too much, especially the yellow will on bright maps(and seeing as all of Renegade's regular maps are day, except field, it's not so good. I liked Renegade's Hud a lot. It was very easy to read, big enough so you don't have to view at a glance. It was also colorful. Instead of just lots of red and lots of yellow. Everything stood out very well. The UI also takes up less space. It's on the sides, instead of all the way across your screen.

[stefano119415174]

I liking the HUD. very lol.. :lol:

[thrash300]

QUOTE (DXR_13KE @ Aug 3 2009, 06:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can i suggest doing something similar to the next picture?



quick gimp job, the A=alt, C= control, CA= control + alt, just to help the newbies and the old and rusty out.

Please debate, modify, change, vandalise, eviscerate and post a superior version if you wish, or just disregard this post.[/b]

Nice, maybe the list of commands should appear as they do in the original, and after 1.5 seconds transition to that corner.

Commands are important, especially for begginers, so it should be damn visible.

[havoc9826]

I don't dislike the idea of a fresh, new hud, and like I've said before, the new hud isn't all bad, but I agree with others that it seems like it'd be a bit hard to quickly differentiate important changing data from the background graphics. I still don't know why the updated ReneHud was completely left by the wayside. See post 1, post 2, post 3, and post 4. Why can't there be a hybridization of the old hud and some of the features in the new one? Is the source material completely gone, or was it just an executive decision to not use it anymore, or do you think hybridization wouldn't work for some reason? I've even noticed that you've already dropped some features on the new hud since the last update (e.g. building health indicators), so it's not like the current hud is set in stone itself.

[ArcticPrism]

QUOTE (havoc9826 @ Aug 5 2009, 10:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why can't there be a hybridization of the old hud and some of the features in the new one? Is the source material completely gone, or was it just an executive decision to not use it anymore, or do you think hybridization wouldn't work for some reason? I've even noticed that you've already dropped some features on the new hud since the last update (e.g. building health indicators), so it's not like the current hud is set in stone itself.[/b]

That hybrid one was nice. It looked like the Renegade one, while being more "modern".

[DXR_13KE]

the radio menus should appear faster than the original game, i think.

[pr0master]

I liked the old hud much more.. The new hud isn't like renegade...

[[NE]Fobby[GEN]]

It's funny how people prefer a floating button over a digital HUD that not only matches the style, but also displays much more information than the original HUD. This is not a carbon-copy of C&C Renegade, we are here to improve it in all ways necessary, and we won't waste this opportunity by trashing all of the innovative ideas that compliment the gameplay.

There's really no way you could make a hybrid of both HUDs. Our HUD is essentially just like Renegade's in terms of where everything is located, the difference is it's digital. A HUD cannot by half-digital, half-floating button.

We do agree with some of the fixes concerning transparency and colour though, these are constructive criticisms.

[R315r4z0r]

QUOTE (Mighty BOB! @ Jun 2 2009, 01:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Suggestions for fixes:
*Reduce transparency. I'm not saying get rid of it, but make the HUD more solid than it is currently.
*USE MORE THAN ONE COLOR. Health should be represented in the traditional trifecta of G-Y-R. Use different colors to highlight different functions. For example, if the HUD were more solid instead of a projection from the aether, more grays and blacks could be used. The mine count could be given a goldenrod back-tint since mines have a yellow texture. Time remaining, compass direction, and Credits could be white as they are more arbitrary values than something solid like the number of mines or vehicle count. The actual icons for these like the little mine image or tank image could be presented as solid more detailed images. Colors used within graphics, backgrounds, and elements are meant to enhance the look of the interface, not to take over the interface.
*Make use of highlights and shadows.
*Reduce saturation of transparent areas leaving saturation for important details that should quickly draw the user's eye.
*Increase contrast ratio between different HUD elements (and between the HUD and the actual terrain, possibly via a darker background or shadow under the HUD) so it doesn't blend together.
*Make use of basic Color Theory: analogous, complementary, split-complementary, triadic color schemes; luminance/value scale (a measurement of how much light is being reflected from a hue; tint/shade); tone scale (A tone is a hue that has had grey added to it. A tone can also be a hue with a large percentage of its complementary color added. ).[/b]

Rebutting some points here.
1. Very slightly reduce the transparency, or not at all. That's not what the problem is here.
2. Highlights, but no shadows. Digital displays don't leave shadows.
Everything else: Use each team's secondary/inverted color behind their main color. For example, keep GDI's HUD gold, but give everything a dark blue neon-glow effect. That way the gold stands against it's dark inverse rather than the terrain itself. Same thing with Nod, keep their Hud red, just have give it a black neon-glow.

Edit:
Something like this:
[attachment=392]

[spellman23]

Frankly, I like the newer approach. More techy, shinier, gives better representation of the data.

However, it can blend in with the background too easily. Unless the HUD itself has contrasting colors (see R315r4z0r's post) it can and will blend into something.

So, we need either contrasting colors or some way to differentiate it from the background, such as the Gaussian Blur suggested several posts pack.