Radeon3

-Sniping from ledges unreachable by foot. Ok or not ok? Personally I despise cheap playstyle (especially from advanced players), but this is ok on EKT. If I notice something dodgy I always check if both sides have the same access to it. If not, then it's clearly an unfair advantage. Then question if it was an intentinal place or an exploitation. I always check this by contacting Kenz. I would suggest you to do the same. -Vehicle surfing. (for as much thats still possible) Ok or not ok? I find it a funny but extremely rarely useful feature, so it's ok. -Base-to-base airstrikes (e.g. islands) Ok or not ok? B2B. No go. -Arty shooting GDI ref @ Islands, wayyy back in the field on islands. Ok or not ok? If it's really wayyyy back (not aware of such a spot) it sounds cheap. Would go through my procedure I mentioned above. -"Wall climbing" where it is obviously not designed to be accessible by foot. Ok or not ok? Nope, even kicked EKT guys for doing it. Whiteout is a grey area. -Nuke-spam. (one nuke every 2-3 minutes) Ok or not ok? Since B4 you can't effectively nuke-spam. Personally I see tactical value in it, but have to admit it makes no sense nuking your own buildings. -Vehicle "stealing". 2 or 3 players rush a field-crate (same team). Player 1 reaches the crate first and e.g. a Titan dropped. Player 2 or 3 get in that Titan as player 1 has to "search" for it. Ok or not ok? Worth a !warn, but it's difficult to deal with these issues. -Nuking WF on the "suicide spot" (behind the air vents on the roof, jumping down in that dark area) Ok or not ok? Can't do that anymore since 5.002. -Ion on top of the airstrip control tower, behind the glass, on that edge/ridge. Ok or not ok? Okay. (Maybe Handepsilon's piston will get included eventually to counter this a bit)

I agree that removing the death count and the K/D ratio might improve the number of heroes who sacrafice their life for a cause, but still these two (mainly the KD) is so much part of Renegade that I'm afraid all the K/D whore snipers would go batshit crazy about this. I wonder how different would Walls look like if one of the team were crippled (no adv. infantry, under stalemate siege). Would there be the same amount of snipers farming them and compete against each other to safely boost their nonexistent KD, or they would do something useful for their team eg. effectively push in with tanks to finish the job. Counting the destroyed vehicles would make more sense than the KD ratio. Assist kills might be even problematic on a technical level. Exact time of every hit must be registered on a target in order to calculate if you really contributed to his\her demise in a timeframe. This is extra load on the CPU and imo coding all this just doesn't worth it. Also think about some scenerios: did I really help with my 2 pistol hits that Moebius who just pulvarized our target in second? I'd rather see a Repair-o-meter instead of this.

I know some of you don't have access to it, but the WF issue has been reported in the Phase IV section. viewtopic.php?f=150&t=74495

Kenz this is the reminder of our IRC discussion. On the right side of the Nod bunker the base can be reached by hopping over the wall. Would be cool if this gets fixed in the next update, because I have been warned for kicking an EKT guy abusing this, if he keeps it up I might get banned for kicking him for this again. On the left side of both of the bunkers there is another issue, the rocks can be climbed, thus mining the doorway being pointless. On Nod’s side this is somewhat easy, on GDI’s side quite difficult you have to jump on an invisible collision volume then make an L jump. On a final note, I’d like to mention Field’s GDI refinery. It can be infiltrated via the left wall. If any mod faces these issues, they are considered map exploitations and according to Kenz these will be fixed in the next update.

Download it again. I suggest you to use the torrent as it checks hash values, which basically is a file integrity verification.

Don't worry there were no framedrops even this high.

It's a long way up if you take a deep breath

Hats off Yosh, this is a great concept.

Well said HaTe, I felt the same when you stated almost the same on the nerf the infiltrators matter: This is starting to be a "I hate the X unit capabilities, let's nerf it" topic so I'd like to know the the top snipers' opinion on the matter, maybe they agree on that this improves the general gameplay and calm down the others because if they can live with the changes, anybody can.

*sigh* Seriously salarite?

Khm... excuse me, but two nights ago I did blow up AIR and HON with just 1 ion ! Excuse me, but I didn't say that. I'm okay with that if there is an extra rock near the WF, but put down some rocks between the airstrip and the Nod refinery to keep it balanced.

Lately I dug up one of my oldren screencap folder and found some interesting screenshots. This picture was taken exacly 7 years ago: There is nothing special about it, it's just me organizing a suprise light tank rush on Hourglass. But hold on a second! Who is at the second place? Is that you HaTe? Let's have some nostalgic moments and post your interesting screenshots from the past :-)

Do you realize that with your proposal Nod not just get access to the WF but all the other buildings as well on a different path, while GDI has opportunities nowhere near that.

The easiest way to to do this is to add inf blocking volumes to the buildings anyways. Which is applied to all maps. If we talk about blocking, some smart guys frowned upon me in the B4 testing that I didn't report "in time" that refineries can be nuked/ioned on top on non-flying maps due to a faulty blocking volume. It seems they didn't really care about the actual problem, because that thing is still there...

The flagpole has been reported in the Beta testing section. I agree it's a cheap spot, should be blocked. For the second one... well it can be seen, and disarmed without any trick... but I see your point. The space under the stairs on the WF where you can be stuck should be blocked. Not because you can't disarm a beacon there, it's just cheap and a deathtrap for new players (if they even find it). But that has been also reported.

I perfectly understood which way you referred to. My point was, that Nod have full access to all 4 buildings even though through 1 way. GDI has access to 3 buildings with two ways in, but one only leads to the strip. This raises the question, is it really Nod which needs more opportunities? I believe this is okay, a symmetrical solution would be 4-4 buildings with 2-2 ways in. Also WF can be nuked the non-tunnel way with teamwork, just wait for your teammates to rush in to distract the AGT. It was possible before B4. I was very suprised when realized this the hard way. I always say, if someone manages to pull off some extreme, unlikely stuff he/she should be rewarded for it. Never knew the reason behind this change, but whatevs..

The entrance of the airtower has high traffic, visible from most of the Nod base and probably mined. If someone manages to get inside I'd say he/she deserves to blow it up. That path basically is a dead end to the Airstrip. On the other hand GDI PP, ref, wf and bar can be nuked with one smoke, while the Nod refinery is inaccessible by GDI infantry. Sounds fair?

It looked like this: Not the best quality, but it was taken 10 years ago.

I'm working on a new announcer who has extended capabilities. I don't want to get in the details yet, the point is it needs to use SoundCues in UDK. After many hours to find out what was wrong with UDK, I had to realize that even though the package contains properly set SoundCues, the building announcements are not using them at all, just the SoundNodeWaves. I checked the source code and confirmed this: FriendlyBuildingSounds(BuildingDestroyed) = SoundNodeWave'RX_EVA_VoiceClips.nod_eva.S_EVA_Nod_AirStrip_Destroyed' I believe it's not as simple as to change SoundNodeWave to SoundCue with the added _Cue to make it use the cues so I believe I pinpointed the source of this in Rx_Building_Team_Internals.uc: enum BuildingAlarm { BuildingDestroyed, BuildingUnderAttack, BuildingDestructionImminent, BuildingRepaired, }; var const SoundNodeWave FriendlyBuildingSounds[buildingAlarm.BuildingAlarm_MAX]; var const SoundNodeWave EnemyBuildingSounds[buildingAlarm.BuildingAlarm_MAX]; Probably there is a reason for this and I'm sure that changing the code here would affect every building which is referred to it. If you have the knowledge what should be changed here (and how to change the first error which is given when the scripts are rebuilt) please share it. I'd like to modify all the buildings' source code to use SoundCues if this is possible.

1. Airdrop - so many opinions, probably serverside is the most acceptable 2. Dead ref - no creds 3. Repair/Damage creds - building rep 66%->50%, more for repping inf and tanks 4. Infantry splash damage - including self damage 5. Lock on - vehicles which are primarily rely on it should have better lock on and tolerance to lose it (stank, mrls, but not mammy) 6. Lolficier - nerf, spread increase or RoF decrease 7. Shotty - more accuracy and range j/k 8. LCG - buff, no recoil (it's still light) 9. Gunner - buff 10. EMP - lower cook time, smoke? (it's still electromagnetic emission) This topic should be sticky.

Technicians were always equally capable of defending building and blowing them up. Who decides that from now on their primary role should be base defending? Where is the logic in that that you would give an extra sidearm to hottie/tech who is repairing in his OWN base with unlimited refills many friendlies around, but wouldn't give it to an unit which is heading into heart of the enemy base? I know what you want to say: but that armed unit can blow up buildings it's OP. In the right hands with stupid people around it is OP, but you can say this for some other units. So you propose to nerf all units who gets a sidearm? I can live with that. I have to repeat myself here. If they let him inside the base, give him time to repair the mines or take damage by forcefully entering, let him place all his explosives on the MCT and they not able kill one unit in their own building or disarm at least 1 timed C4, it's pretty much their fault. At that point I'd say that guy deserves to blow it up, but that he would have a 10 times easier job to defend it is exaggeration. Capable players would deal with him in 10 seconds. I'm starting to believe we play with differently skilled players or a different game mode. I know there are timeframes when you can't find too much experienced players and infiltration is like a hot knife through butter. But good luck bypassing SilentKnight, IrishMedic or Goku just to name some. Maybe people don't care anymore about buildings loss since losing them doesn't do too much. I'd suggest you to come over to the marathon server at an agreed time. I'll be present to see if it really that easy for an "armed to the teeth" tech/hotwire (you) to blow up buildings. Then we can go over to the AOW server to see if it's the same there. We will post the results. This is the best method I can think of to get our points of view closer or find a consensus. Which directly supports the need to nerf them. That's the problem when you take out something from the context. I explained in two sentences why is your statement is not correct. Please read it again together. I do say that they are jack of all trades when upgraded, because they have more uses, but far away from being stronger than rest of the units. Sure they can repair efficiently and blow up buildings but it is impossible to do at the same time. They are better in general on some aspects when upgraded, but still have their hard capped limitations. Lets say we have an upgraded tech for 600 creds with a good sidearm, I'd say this is a tier 2 unit now. He can't take up the fight against a sniper (T2) at mid/long range, has no chance against officier (T3), almost the same with the shotty (T4), gunner and patch (T2) are serious threat for him, can't fight vehicles above close range while every unit have the ability to put C4s on tanks, can buy grenades by losing his mines while other unit don't really lose anything by that (upgrade possibility for other units) and most off all every unit can get the same sidearm as him to make it par. Salarite, every unit can deal with 3 unit on their way to the enemy base if they have an underpriced powerful sidearm and the skill. No ego stuff here, but don't count me as your average Adv.engineer. So far nobody acknowledged that you couldn't afford to buy powerful underpriced sidearms anytime you wanted in B3, because the silo was worth fighting for and you weren't swimming in money. +1 on BroTranquilty's suggestion. Please, by all means if that's the topic I referred to, I'd like to see it again because it contained some good ideas.

I do run into "superior" sidearm wielding techs/hotwires if they spot me in their base. They open fire at me at mid range and it's over for the operation. That's the way of it. No offense, but it's your fault if they have the chance to blow up anything after you got killed. When I face against decent players/team after I got detected even if I managed to take down who spotted me, they alert the base, start patrolling or dispatch a few guys to eliminate the threat. Sorry but this statement is not correct. It should be like this: The (by far) most common characters that purchase sidearms are the hotwire/technician/engineer, because they are multipurpose units AND upgrading them with extra sidearms makes them jack of all trades. Infiltrators purchase sidearms because they take high risks (with a low success rate) to get through the entire battlefield, get into the enemy base then finally into a building and automatic pistol isn't too effective for this purpose. If I were to follow that mindset, should I complain about the anti armor units, that they never meant to put up a fight against infantry units in any of the CnC games, and now a rocket soldier, pic, rav, gunner can buy powerful sidearms to counter them all? I find it illogical and annoying so let's take away something from them? While it sounds sooo OP written down, that's not the case in reality. At EKT me and AirNomad spent much time to develop techniques specially for dual infiltration until we layed down solid plans for everything. It required very high knowledge of each other's decisions and roles, although so far (to the end of B3) when we were successful only managed to blow up only one building. As far as I see this what we want to see as the outcome: You want to nerf infiltrators because you find them OP. B0ng is not worried about infiltrators he wants diversity in units and you admit that your solution don't help it at all. As for myself I agree on that diversity would be welcomed, and I respect your opinion but the changes you proposed are plain wrong. It won't change the source of the issue, that some units are overused. I already pointed out many things and feel like repeating myself, so I'll come back to this topic days later, hopefully more than 3-4 guys gonna share their thoughts on the matter.

By removing 1 timed C4 from the hottie you effectively create an engineer with extra health and a better gun. That 1 C4 won't affect any of the already mentioned reasons why people getting hotties/techs, because only one role dependent on 2 timed C4s and that's the infiltrator. You would punish a very small ammount of players with this, while the majority would still do the same by purchasing a hottie/tech mainly for the repair gun. I agree with you all, I would also like to see more diversity in units, but nerfing -the already pointless- infiltrators in B4 has nothing to do with the source of the problem.

I have high hopes for the vet system, it would solve many issues, only problem is it won't happen anytime soon. Yeah the most effective way currently is to raise significantly the prices on the most used sidearms, which can be done server-side *hint hint*

As far as I see this thread is about sidearms and infiltration units. We should really find that old thread about why the hottie/techs are overused. Basically if you buy a vehicle you invest in a tech/hottie to keep it alive. If your base is under constant fire you need a tech/hottie. If an enemy unit running around in you building you throw some C4s at him. You want to change the outcome of the game, you get a tech/hottie to blow up a building. Got nuked/ioned you need a tech/hottie for the best chance to disarm it. See the pattern here? It has nothing to do with the extra weapons.