Bananas

I have no problem trying it out or having infinite ammo stay. If some people don't like it, then an easy compromise is just increase the already low amounts of ammo for everyone. Even just giving all guns two more magazines would be amazing in my opinion.

Not sure what to say about this. I think they are very strong, but overshadowed by cheap characters and side arms which are much less risky cost wise. The alt fire can be useful, but I don't really think it fits the character. It's still useful depending on the situation though. Would rather wait until cheap characters and sidearms are looked at before buffing the 1k characters.

I've thought this for a while and mentioned it a few times, so I thought I would make a thread on it. Orca/Apache fights are really boring with the current lock on payload missiles. It just ends up as both locking on and hurting each other to half hp, then backing off. When the machine guns/cannons are used it's actually interesting, but the missiles are so boring. I would much rather see lock on removed for air units so that they actually have to aim the missiles well. It would lead to much more exciting and skillful air battles. I'm not sure if the whole payload method (firing a bunch of missiles and then having a long reload time) should stay or not, but lock on should definitely go in my opinion. Any thoughts on making air battles more fun? Or do people think they are fun how they are right now?

Was pretty fun. If anyone has any suggestions, feel free to post them. I'm assuming the time worked out decently for most people.

Perhaps a really simple solution we are overlooking is to just increase the price of sidearms. This would make it more of a risk and investment for anyone who wants to buy one. It would be less appealing to buy side arms all the time if it hurt your bank more.

Not useful with the size of the current player base. Also a pain to code I'm sure.

I don't think the magazine size should be lowered. It's a chaingun. We need weapons to feel different. I like canucck's idea of raising the rof to compensate. I don't think just nerfing the damage and headshot multiplier is the best way to balance officer. Going back to non-hitscan might be something to think about too. I've always thought that officer is a missed opportunity for an interesting class. The name screams teamwork to me. It would be fun to see him get something other than a really strong gun even if it meant increasing the classes cost. Ammo drops and/or some type of buff would be awesome. Passive buff: Restore 1 armor per second when near officer. Active abilities: Ammo drops, Rally (something like fill nearby allied sprint bars and sprinting costs no stamina for 5 seconds) Those are lame examples that I didn't give much thought to, but you get the idea.

That's all I'm suggesting too. Just a small damage nerf and a slight increase on the time it takes to lock on. It shouldn't be anything to make rocket soldiers terrible. Even with a slight nerf, rocket soldier will do fine against air. Most things in the game do fine against air. I don't think we should go back to relying on a single op anti air unit. Instead, air units could probably use an hp nerf of maybe 25-50 or so. No. Railgun/PIC is probably the weapon with the most potential in the game right now. It still one shots free infantry, can kill any infantry in the game with a headshot, wrecks light armor, hurts heavy armor a lot, and it's hitscan. There's nothing wrong with the gun. The only thing I think the class could use is something to make them more resistant to vehicles. I think yosh mentioned splash damage reduction before which would be awesome. 1k characters are just overshadowed right now by how strong the early game units are. Why buy a 1k when officer or rocket soldier will cover all your needs? Or just buy a hotty + tib flechette and you are as strong as a mobius while being able to do other things.

Rocket soldiers are really strong right now. They rival a PIC/Railgun in damage to vehicles. I would say decrease the damage by a slight amount and increase the time for lock on to occur. Also removing the extra swap time from rocket launcher to other weapons would be a nice change.

Moved this topic into the balance section for further discussion.

I would like to see the pattern be less random. It's lame having RNG shots. Also having the damage start to fall off/be lowered after certain ranges would be nice.

Thought we should have a giant thread on credits and what to change related to them. As it stands, I would say the entire system could use some tweaks and changes. Things to talk about would be: silo, ref, harvy, damage, kills, repairing, etc. Let the shouting begin!

Wut. Not everyone knows this lol. You could easily get feedback using a different method... Then put this in the original post so that everyone knows how it works exactly... Also choosing only someones 10 nerfs when they did 20 combined nerfs/buffs isn't accurately representing what people give in feedback. And yes, I understand the point of having a list of only 10. Anyways updated both of my posts just for you.

***CAN WE PLEASE GET A BALANCE SECTION FOR THE FORUMS?*** The way you did this post is very confusing. You didn't really make it very clear that the order of the list would be worth different amounts of points. Also you are messing up the results when you choose to only put in people's first 10 if they did more or split into buffs/nerfs(because it doesn't represent what they thought was most important). I would say your list on the original post doesn't accurately represent what people think is most important. I'll leave out what I think should actually be changed specific balance change suggestions since you wanted that. <---REWORDED AND EDITED so that everyone Bojack doesn't think I'm a conspiracy nut. Here's my list: 1) Tiberium weapons nerf 2) Officer nerf 3) Shotgun nerf 4) Rocket soldier nerf 5) APC nerf 6) Stank buff 7) EMP buff/changes/rework (emps make no sense right now) 8) SBH buff/changes/rework (laser rifle sucks, side arms are too good on sbh) 9) Player controlled turret nerf/removal (the ones on whiteout) 10) Gunner nerf/buff/rework (too strong against infantry, doesn't fill the role of building/vehicle defense well enough)

I'll be there. Sounds fun. Pick up games are awesome. And remember...GET MEDS!

This picture makes me feel very empty.

Kind of weird seeing my post quoted as a reason for spread. I guess I can see how you could draw reasons from it though. Anyways, I tend to agree with gatsu about spread. I've already stated my opinion to the best of my ability though. Give the spread to testers and see what they think. It can always be reversed. At least I lost you only near the end of my long post I agree carbine isn't exciting. It just happens to fit what the devs seemed to want. Anyways none of this is finalized anyways.

I am willing to try the spread, but I still don't see the point of it. If it's only for long shots, it's already more beneficial to scope IMO. If the spread actually effected short to mid range shots, I would at least understand the reasoning behind it being added (not that I would want it). Anyways, I already talked about this last post. Honestly, I think movement should be looked at too. Sprint on vehicles is just another button to hold down. Sprint on infantry lasts forever and I would argue you are a sitting duck when it runs out. Whoevers sprint runs out mid sniper battle tends to lose from my experience. Why not raise base movement speed and make sprint into sprint. Make it a short significant speed boost. This would help against wallhuggers since you could actually rush them better. It's because of certain game mechanics. As I mentioned in a previous post, most snipers have their noses glued to the walls. Not only can you see around walls while poking in and out, but you get a giant targeting box. The targeting box lasts FOREVER. I can play ring around the rosy because I always know where my enemy is. This gives snipers, rave/syds, and engis (with remotes) a huge advantage since they WILL know where the enemy is and what they do. This removes a huge element of how you deal with snipers in FPS. You kill snipers by outplaying them with movement. A common scenario in renegade is hiding behind a pillar from a sniper. In most games this would give you the advantage as you can close the gap and get the upper hand in surprising the sniper. You would force the sniper to take a quick shot at an unknown position and time. In renegade you get a targeting box that stays for a LONG time. A sniper in renegade can just watch when and where his enemy goes and time his shot accordingly. I can't even count how many kills I get this way. I intentionally lead people to corners and just lead the shot. Third person and targeting boxes GREATLY enhance snipers. I would laugh so hard at a test game where it's locked to first person with no targeting boxes. Snipers would be so much worse then. I don't know what you are talking about. If you can aim well, then most guns just melt people in this game. Chain gun, laser chain gun, carbine, volt auto rifle...All of these will absolutely melt your enemy with headshots. Even without headshots they will hurt. Marksman and soldier will demolish a 1k character with enough headshots. Shotguns are constantly destroying me after their buff. Shoot, even a heavy pistol can melt someone. The time to kill can be really low even without snipers. I was thinking something like this too. Could always change the remaining sniper. It would be easier to balance with only one anyways. I would be fine with snipers costing more even now. 600 is still a fair price for the sniper. There is some truth to this that I agree with. I usually avoid buying 1000 characters because I know one lucky shot will just waste my money. As far as dying in one hit as patch, really? You payed less than the sniper did. 450 isn't even that much. Also if you are getting shot in the base, try moving smarter. I have played games with quickscoping. I don't mind it, but I'm not sure it would fit renegade. Regardless, the scope would have to be improved for this to work. Half the time it bugs out. Gatsu is right though. Always funny when you noscope a shot and it travels straight to the head for no reason (when you are the one shooting at least). Hmmm. Not sure where this comes from. Mobius is super strong right now. Melts vehicles, buildings, and infantry. Personally I don't use ramjets. I find them too expensive, too loud, too visible, and lame (don't like killing people with bodyshots or 1 shotting free inf). I could see the game working just fine without the ramjet. People would hate it because the ramjet is such an iconic renegade weapon. I think once people adapted, they would find that there are many counters to air. There would be a distinct lack of long range anti-air though. This would be annoying on Walls where the sky ceiling is way up there. For anti-air, I think sydney/rave could fill the role the ramjet plays somewhat. Mobius/Mendoza are good for melting air if they get close. Chain gunners are decent against air. Heavy pistol is good if you can aim it. Carbine is decent. I mean when you think about it, ramjets were the best at single handedly crippling air. One ramjet wouldn't stop an orca/apache rush though. Renegade has always been about working together. I imagine there would be many ways to melt air or stop the rushes if you are ready as a team. For light armor, I don't see it being a problem. Humvees and buggies die to anything that shoots. Arties and MRLS are easy enough to kill. Yet again, it's not like one ramjet could over come an arty being repaired. I find chaingunners are amazing at countering mrls/arty. Every class has a timed capable of taking them out. Patch absolutely melts arties. LCG is pretty good against mrls. It's light armor, so just about everything will be decent against it. Infantry wise I don't think there would be a problem. The 500 sniper still exists to play, it's just more difficult. 500 sniper could always be changed and rebalanced some. It would be much easier to balance one sniper class than try to have a logical progression to a better sniper and still keep balance intact. I imagine you would see more mobius being used (depending on what the ramjet was replaced with). For ramjet replacement, you could probably just give the carbine. Carbine is already strong enough to be considered a 1000 weapon. It's silent so it would be good for the commando idea you guys seem to want. I think trying the game without ramjets would definitely be interesting. I would love to test some of this stuff out. Just replace ramjet with carbine and don't let other classes buy carbine on a test server someday. I think it would need testing to see how this would actually impact the game. It would be fun to see what players tend to choose after ramjets are gone. Would tanks start getting wrecked now that there are possibly mobius and sydneys on top of walls cliff instead of ramjets?

Ok. I apparently didn't explain myself enough. I'll try to break down my thoughts on snipers. I have often considered if the game would play better without snipers. I understand they are frustrating and can completely control certain maps. Maps like xmountain it is very difficult to get by a good sniper. Partly this is due to map design. There are many things I would be open to trying with snipers, but spread implemented how it is makes no sense. I would never want ANY spread, but the way it is being implemented confuses me. I understand I haven't actually played with it, so maybe a dev will be able to correct anything I say wrong. I'll try to break this down and then maybe give some thoughts on snipers. I'm going to break these two quotes down again. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting them. Both quotes say that this spread will only effect hip shooting at long ranges. This confuses me. Even without hip spread, the longer the shot the more beneficial it will be to scope. The farther you are shooting the smaller the head and body size. Let's use Walls as an example. If you were to ask people if they scoped shooting from the cliff to the back of the enemy base, most would say yes. I scope for that. It's very difficult to hip fire that far. So most snipers would already scope for that distance. If it's already more beneficial to scope, then why punish someone for wanting to hipfire the shot? I just don't see what this spread is aimed at. I'll break down what ranges I would call things by using islands as an example. For me it would go like this (these are urls). Short Medium Long Longer Which range will this spread effect? I would hip fire short, medium, and most of long. Anything longer or more I would probably scope. My point is if this spread is only for effecting long ranges, then why is it being added? I would say most people already scope if they are shooting "halfway across the map". It is more beneficial to scope than hipfire at that point. That being said there are reasons to attempt to hipfire. In sniper battles for instance it can be better to keep moving but take less accurate shots. Why are we attempting to add spread to punish someone who wants to take the more difficult shot? If someone wants to try to headshot me with hipfire from across the map, then let them. If they can do it then good for them. If this change does get pushed through then the scope would have to be changed. It is already super buggy, but it slows you down too much. If I can't hipfire, then I would want full scope movement speed back. The bug already allows you to do this (which I know many people use). Being stuck at a painfully slow movement is very boring. Anyways, let's break down why snipers are the go to killing machines. They can hit accurately from any range with hitscan. They are single shot which allows poking in and out of cover (wallhugging) without taking damage. They have the potential to one hit kill any infantry. Even without headshot they do good body damage. They have pretty good amounts of ammo. Now compare to the other classes that are good for killing. Limited range with possibly poor accuracy (but a sniper should be unlimited). No chance for instant kill. Most have to maintain line of sight to kill. They all have pretty good damage on head and body, some with burn. Very poor ammo amounts on most guns. To me the biggest that stand out are the differences in ammo and the ability to kill without taking damage. With a sniper my potential is limitless if I play right. I can kill many people while not taking too much damage. Why would I want to choose a class that can't kill as many people and definitely will take more damage. Wallhugging is a huge part of why snipers are so effective. If this game was locked to first person, you would see snipers become a lot less effective. I'm not saying I want that, but it's worth thinking about. Snipers usually have their noses stuck against the walls. I actually find this extremely boring though... While we are on the topic, let's address wallhugging. Why is it so effective? Quite honestly some people who play this game don't know how to move. If you walk straight forward you will die. If you dodge and turn like a madman, then your chances improve of not being hit. Even this isn't enough though. There have been some poor map design choices which hurt very badly. Islands tunnels have NO cover. If I go down the long tunnel as GDI, I'm looking at having to dodge at least 3 sniper shots before I turn the corner. Xmountain is one giant infantry chokepoint with little cover. Lots of places to wall hug too. Perhaps smokes grenades will help depending on their price. I know I have used emps to some success as cover. They are expensive though. Even if you get to a sniper they are still effective at close range. People complain about getting headshotted, but it is also just skill and good aim. If you come against canucck when he's mendoza or has carbine, there's a good chance he will still just completely melt you still. It's not exclusive to snipers. Shoot, sometimes I use lcg because it's actually easier to get kills with than sniper. I feel like I am running out of things to say and losing track of my thoughts, so I'll try to wrap this up. In summary (somewhat), I am completely open to sniper changes. I agree that they can be dominant, but spread is not the way to tackle this. I'm not sure of what changes would best. Perhaps lowering firespeed and increasing reload time would help to punish snipers for missing. Similar to how missing with a sydney or raveshaw can be very bad. Snipers usually get too much freedom to miss if they are playing smart. Anyways, that's for another discussion.

I appreciate that these changes aren't set in stone. Hopefully the testers can give you some great feedback. Then what is the spread for? Why are you forcing people to use the scope at mid to long ranges. Some people prefer scoping and find it easier. Others shoot from the hip. This doesn't seem like it will even really nerf snipers much. It feels like just adding something unnecessary that will annoy certain players. Am I really going to be forced to quick scope? I understand that snipers can be dominant. I would even be open to discussing nerfs or changes, but spread is NOT the way to go. There are plenty of ways to damage aircraft as close to medium range. The ramjet filled a role of being able to cripple them at long range. I don't see what we will shoot aircraft with when they are flying near the massive sky ceiling in walls. Please don't say rocket soldier. Rocket soldier is only good for annoying aircraft with beeping sounds and the weird knockback effect it has on impact. I agree that this is a cool idea...but you are trying to mold a sniper into an all around bad ass. It seems like you want a class capable of doing everything at a meh level. Honestly, wouldn't it be easier to just add another character for this? You can even call him General Fooby. It is kind of weird to see some of the changes in RenX even though it is supposed to be arcadey. Like jumping. Why can I not jump as much as I want? Jumping is fun. If I want to jump I shouldn't get slowed down. Let me hop like a bunny while I fight. Maybe my character is just really happy to be fighting.

Interesting list of changes and additions. A lot of these are amazing, but some not so much. I'll go through and list some concerns. This is backwards to me. Makes more sense to disarm your own mines with alternate fire. I'm worried about stealth being disabled by EMPs. I could easily see some situations where they get spammed in a choke point. EMPs disarming mines is interesting. I think it should be a slow over time effect as other people have mentioned. Instant would be too good. It would lead to engineers just EMPing and killing a building with remotes near instantaneous. I think the idea of something to disarm huge mine fields is good, but it can't just nullify the purpose of mining. Why? Neither of these make much sense to me. I understand that people spamming beacons in base is annoying, but there are legit uses for beacons in base. I've seen fake beacons make a team go into a frenzy searching for it. I've seen well timed defensive beacons annihilate rushes. If spam is the issue, then I feel like there are better ways to reduce it. This change just limits creativity and play styles. Beacon points are fine at 300. A team should be rewarded for the amount of effort it takes to stop a beacon. Beacons are expensive and have the potential to kill a building. The disarming team needs to be rewarded adequately. Really not looking forward to this. Willing to test it first as I can't judge these changes without seeing them in action. I just don't think free spammable aoe has a place in a game with small choke points. Pretty bad for the 500 sniper. I usually play it knowing that I will be harder to track down. These changes are very weird. Why spread while hip firing? I saw you said it won't impact them at close ranges, so why? 80% of my sniper shots are hip fired. I don't want to be forced to use the buggy scope that makes you move super slow. Nothing will make me rage more than missing a shot because of spread. I don't see what adding spread is aimed at. If you are trying to nerf skill, it won't change much. Most of the really good snipers are just good at aiming. They could grab about any weapon and shut down an area of the map. The havoc/sakura changes are also very strange. Why are you trying to shift a sniper class into a "commando". The problem here is that they have a sniper, so why would they be infiltrating bases. Why does a sniper class get two timed? Honestly these changes just reinforce what I was already thinking. The ramjet should just be removed and havoc/sak given a new interesting weapon. It's a waste of a character to have a second sniper anyways. The ramjet will hardly be able to touch an arty/mrls being repaired now. Air vehicles will just laugh at their damage since they have an hp buff. Being able to damage heavy armor that much from any range is lame. It's going to be no fun having your tank picked off by a sniper standing on the cliff in walls. This is going to make the map very boring. This map already had some problems that are going to be amplified by these changes. The rock jump was actually pretty cool and grew on me. The problem is how long and linear the infantry path is on this map. Unless you completely control it, you will end up fighting the same people 2 times before you reach the bunker. Now that you can't jump from the bunker it will be even more long. Infantry will have to fight the same people 2-3 times while trying to get through a tiny chokepoint that will likely be mined. Not to mention the rock that will be wallhugged hard. Infantry tactics will be completely shut down by a camping tech. Honestly I thought this map had a lot of potential with some improvements. These aren't improvements, but instead steps backwards. All praise The Harvester, God of Sacrifice.

Should just make it where you can purchase AI creeps that charge the enemy base. Could be a one time purchase or a wave system like some starcraft/warcraft custom maps had. You buy a unit and it gets added to every following assault wave. I will give you my support if you promise to have a banana gun.

Please do not implement a rune and mastery like system. Let everyone have an even playing field at all times. ESPOTS 2015 baby. If we are going the moba route, we will need more major nerfing and buffing. We need to constantly have a changing flavor of the month character/vehicle. I vote to give grenadier his time to shine while nerfing the buggy.

A long time ago for a different game I made a similar comment. Everyone who played hated the map. Turns out it got some changes and became one of the better maps in the game. Some people love Field. It's also a great clan wars map. It definitely shouldn't be removed from the game. Getting some tweaks to it might be nice, but it's still a good map. I think how enjoyable it is also depends on the mine limit. Field with a million mines is hell. The map has a few problems that could be solved to help the game play. First the silo just adds to the snowball effect. I've seen a few games where the top 3 people on the winning team had a combined 20k from silo, harvy, ref, and hitting buildings. Second the harvester isn't able to be blocked. It just keeps screwing up the defenders and giving away free points.

When uploading to youtube you can make the video unlisted. Makes it so only those with the actual link to the video will be able to watch it. Just do that and then PM a dev the link. I know exactly what glitch you are talking about. Sorry you had trouble with some one abusing it.