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There's a difference between looking around walls and aiming around walls. One requires you to move past the wall and then line up your target, the other lets you line up your target even before moving past the wall. The latter is obviously more effective and denying objective advantages because you enjoy them doesn't help your credibility. Your target box suggestion doesn't change this fundamental difference btw. I'm not sure why you think that and I am curious to find out. Put it into a situation in renegade and tell me how you think it won't effect it. I'll even go in and fraps to try and have you understand that it would not make hugging any easier. And yes, if the problem is that you can't make it - save us the trouble lol. I'm 100% for 180 spin as well. I used that very often and it was a nice feature.

Udk maxes the fps at 90 for some reason, but if I understand correctly, there is a working way around it. Not sure on the CPU usage, though.

Yep, and that was for any weapon (not taking splash damage into consideration), besides the repair guns

I mean I've played clanwars, lobby wars, and community wars plenty, but I guess your dickmeasuring is based off of a ruler whereas mine is a yard stick. But really, it doesn't help hugging. The only reason it does as is is because of the target box making it easier. Take that away, as I have suggested, and it is the same. You can already see around walls in third person regardless. The only thing it does is give the camera a fixed position. I understand why the devs wouldn't want it, but I think that if they just took the suggestion I had into consideration, there really isn't any advantage to it, making it just a preference thing.

Somehow doubt you'd run circles around me, my friend. You still have to go all the way out with or without free-aim....free-aim changes nothing in that respect. Invisi hugging or glitch hugging was due to renegade's poor netcode, and wouldn't be even close to the same in renegade x. Hugging would be the exact same with or without free-aim if you made the target box not visible through walls when using free-aim. The people you mentioned were the best clanwars players, but none of them would even be seen in a sniper server recently (when htmn or tristt try, they generally are slightly above average, but not among the elite in sniper servers). I realize that sniper servers aren't that important to you or the gameplay here, but the point is that free-aim is used by the best infantry players. The people you mentioned are some of the best tank fighters, and very good with infantry, but not among the best with infantry. I've played with or against them.

I use it in renegade for every single infantry battle. How is it a crutch? You're acting like it somehow makes the game so much easier, or makes sniping op just because of a feature that locks the camera at a specified angle. It had its disadvantages of use too. Besides, like I said, you can always edit the feature to make it harder to hug with free-aim. Just make it so that no target box appears when you use free-aim at a character when there is a wall between you and him. I don't use it much for hugging. I have always prided myself on being an open player, and I was also known as one of the best snipers in the game. I would never give free-aim credit for that, because while it is nice to use, so as to not get a heahache watching my screen shake so much from the shifting camera from my snappy play and high sensitivity, it is not making it easier for me to hit my targets. Just watch this for a minute and I hope you can understand how annoying it would get for someone like me to snipe or use any infantry without free-aim: I would just prefer to have the option to have the camera stay in one designated place when engaged in battle is all.

Edited because I feel both points have been made, and I do not wish to continue saying the same thing over and over again for no reason.

Renegade X is not a Renehade clone. Its a modernisation of the old game. Just because somethings was in one way in the original it doesnt mean it will be that way in X. Thanks for informing me.

It wasn't intended for wallhugging. Good players use it because it's effective, not because they believe it enhances gameplay, I would know. Being able to view and shoot your opponent's entire body while only showing part of your own is silly unless the entire game is built around a cover system like Gears. Why is that silly? And I clearly must not know because I was awful at renegade, so the skill and use of free-aim must therefore be beyond me, huh?

Anyone who says free-aim was unintended makes me laugh. It should definitely be a priority, as most good renegade players use it, and will be upset if a key feature is left out in renegade x

Renegade had body, neck, and head calculations.

They could always make it so that the target box doesn't show up when the enemy is behind a wall or structure, when using free-aim. Would make hugging relatively the same as it is now, while still giving free-aim its other uses.

There is still no word on the level of priority given for free-aim. It was discussed a lot, but the devs themselves seem to be split on the importance level of it. I'm with you and want free-aim more than anything else, but we have not received any official word on when this will be added to the game, unfortunately. I'd like to say by release, but in all honesty I just don't know if the devs see it as a priority right now.

Play clanwars if you want pure. Clanwars have and will always be held in pure vanilla servers. They have also always been the most competitive small games possible in renegade. Renegade X will be the same in regards to that.

Weapon drops were in renegade as a server side option. Health regen was a verterancy mod that some servers created. I didn't like it, as you, but that just meant I didn't play in that server. The game is not as remake of renegade, it is a new game based off of renegade. To say it is being ruined by mods is not accurate because they aren't modifying anything. They were making a new game.

Hourglass 2 is renamed as Whiteout, but I can't say much on the turrets. Any community can set up a ts server onto their server box. In the past, major communities have supported minor ones and allowed them to have their own channel on their ts server. I haven't been on renx and ts together yet actually, but I would assume some sort of overlay either already exists or already does exist (ts3 has a specific feature for this iirc). You can join whatever channel you like, and talk to whomever you like. All channels can be set up with different settings as well. In renegade, there was a script that would auto switch players from the subchannel GDI or Nod, based on which team they were on in the renegade server. You can join ts whenever you like, and talk to whoever you like, as long as it follows the rules of the community. Renegade's remote c4s worked the same way as what you just described.

Rengade's gameplay is inspiring. It was for me, at least.

I get what you're saying. That may work for the flame tank specifically (though it would indeed look weird), but it wouldn't really work for any tank with a shell warhead. The shell then would have the potential to explode mid barrel if the tip of the turret was in contact with any other unit. That changes up the splash radius, makes the smoke and explosion closer to the view of the user (especially in first person tank view, which is new to renegade x), and the worst part is that it would throw off any elevation change. If your vehicle is on a slant and you are shooting, the shell would then appear to exit the turret of the tank in the middle, instead of passing all the way through. It's an interesting idea that sounds logical for the flametank, though.

1. Not irrelevant. Let me ask you this, what differences would you create between the renegade recon bike and the renegade x recon bike if there was one? 2. The vehicle barriers already in place are in proportion to the current smallest vehicle width in renegade. Make a smaller vehicle and make more vehicle blockers. It is a pretty simple calculation. It is also about the blatancy of these blockers. They are put in because there are many spots that should be only infantry, obviously (for gameplay purposes). They aren't meant to be completely apparent, except to those who wish to attempt to wiggle their way into an infantry only location. Having a smaller vehicle would mean that these become much more apparent (and it means that much more need to be added). It looks bad, it plays bad, and it is not needed just so that a vehicle like the recon bike can be added to the game. I am arguing based on experience in renegade, and with knowledge and experience that these aspects work the exacxt same in renegade x. I'm not presuming anything here. 3. How can you say I am using ad hominem in the slightest? Pretty sure i havent said a word about you, your reputation, or even mentioned your experience. Cherry-picked statistics? You do realize that this implies that I ignored some other form of data in order to only use the data I did, right...?... You must mean factual statistics that are relevant to the discussion? Because I'm yet to see any statistics at all from you, yet mine came directly from LE (which makes it impossible to refute since that was that argument...). If you really want to discuss falacies with me further, then do so in a pm. Every argument contains some form of fallacy from both parties, and you denying that you have committed one was just me proving my point. I have committed a few myself, but they are in fact not the ones you accused me of. Let's try to stick to the topic at hand in order to avoid any ad hominem, shall we?

Haha don't worry, I'm cool Not looking for this to get personal, but it irritates me when someone that claims to know what they're talking about is actually completely wrong, yet that same person tries calling out the person who is right. I'm not a narcissistic guy, but when what I know to be fact is questioned by the off-balanced opinion by another, well...it irritates me. I am calm, cool, and collected though, no worries. I just like to prove my point in a definitive way The ironic part is that the ai recon bike (sp) is the same as the player (mp) recon bike, because the vehicle was never intended for mp because of its size. So for him to claim that it had to be edited at all is wrong. Saying that it was hard to distinguish between the 2 is also false. They're the same by default in LE, but with different capabilities (player vs bot).

Can't open the video on my tablet, so I'll have to check it out later. As far as damage goes, balance is still being tweaked regularly, and it will almost positively need the open beta players' help in determining an equal balance. It is hard to do with the rather limited amount of players and playing time, currently.

^Pretty much. Stop using every fallacy in the book. Saying that the problem already exists to a minor degree, and so making it much worse shouldn't matter is probably one of the one worst arguments you can possibly make. I'm aware of the current vehicle blockers in renegade and renegade x. I've been playing since the release, modding for 7+ years, playing competitive for the same amount of time, and have been a scripts beta tester as well. Pretty sure I know enough about the game, and I find it "extremely ironic" that you think you know more, when you clearly never even learned how to use LE properly. I only used it for damage calculations mostly and I know how it works better than you, apparently. Once again, you can stop saying so little with so much words anytime now. I can get across your point better than that with half of the words. This isn't English class, this is a renegade debate. I'm not looking to grade you, so there's no need for you to waste your time with big words. Believe it or not, I'm in my 3rd year of college now and can easily understand you and reply in the same manner. Sociology teaches you to know your audience in a debate. There is no need for the annoyance of trying to seem so incredibly clever when what little facts and evidence your words are trying to support are wrong from the start. I'm reading this and typing this from a 7" tablet. Save me the pointless scrolling.

It is in leveledit as a MP and a SP vehicle. Not sure what version of leveledit you have or if you just didn't ever download the right things, but there is an _ai and a _player recon bike in leveledit.... You're wrong that modifying it without a download would make it be glitchy. For one, you can even edit a vehicle in-game (console edit_vehicle). For two, its in leveledit and is already a model in renegade by default. You can join in a server with a recon crate option and get that recon bike and drive it perfectly fine without any downloads or even scripts/core patches installed. I don't believe you know what you are talking about too much on this subject, from the sounds of things... It's the concept of the vehicle that doesn't work. It could be completely unglitchy and work perfectly as intended and still be an awful gameplay vehicle. The game is not meant for a small 2 wheeled vehicle. Look at the maps and the structures. It should not be possible for vehicles to fit into tunnels, buildings, and be able to avoid vehicle barricades. Having something like this would make the location of invisible vehicle blockers very apparent, and thus make the visual and gameplay side of the game look poor. Please, if you want to say something worthwhile that would fix that, then be my guest. Simply saying nothing with plenty words is not helping anything. I'm sure most of us here see through that by now.

Some character models are not yet final to as what you see in the current beta.

As far as leveledit goes, it really isn't that hard to differentiate the SP units from the MP units if you know what you're doing...it's classified as _AI or _Player, and anything with a CNC prefix was added later to the game in the form of patches. The weapon editing would be under Weapon_Reconbike_Player for instance. It's actually really easy to navigate and edit so long as you understand the system. It has multiplayer settings just as any other tank does. It wasn't added to MP for the reasons I have previously stated. Modders also editted the vehicle too...as a crate spawn. Some servers used an edited recon bike on stock maps as a crate drop. Not sure what you could possibly mean in your 4th paragraph. It's more of a "lol fun to ride but really the use in MP is awful" vehicle (like the sedan, pickup truck, chameleon, and SSM launcher) To sum it up, it simply was a poor gameplay vehicle in renegade, which is why it was never in multiplayer. The same should be said about renegade x.