[Main issue with C&C mode]

15 hours ago, Fffreak9999 said:

Honestly, I would like to see an increased selection of characters available once buildings go down, but lock out the iconics for each team, I say leave the following locked out, although the Medium Tank, while being the iconic vehicle for GDI, is also the weaker tank compared to the Mammoth and as such should still be available.

 

In the case of GDI 

Havoc, Sydney, Mobius and Hotwire.

In the Case of Nod: 

SBH, Sakura, Mendoza, Raveshaw and Technician

If the SBH is only included solely because of his impact on games, I would argue that Gunner should be added to your list. But, if you're going to lock out any tier 2 units, I think they should all be locked out honestly.

I don't want this to happen, though. I like it as is. It's severe enough to make it feel important, but not so much that it completely screws you over.

12 hours ago, Kaiser739 said:

The changes people have proposed here will only lead to games being more stalematey again. When airdrops were introduced in Beta 4, there were games in which Nod infiltrated and destroyed the GDI WF, but subsequently could not finish GDI off because they'd airdrop Medium and Mammoth Tanks all the time. It was almost as if there was no disadvantage to be felt on GDI's side and that's just wrong IMO.

Losing a building should really hurt a team like it did in early Betas. For me, when the Barracks/HoN gets destroyed, only free infantry classes should be available. WF/airstrip goes down = no more vehicles, no airdrops at all. Refinery destroyed = very little income, almost none at all. This teaches people to defend better next time - it might lead to more camping, but it also leads to more teamplay on the other side, because you need to organize to overcome a good defense.

I'm not trying to make a point for, or against this. But, it seems like you are forgetting the ragequiters/ragejoiners. I've seen even the best teamplay players just up and quit or join the winning team. This immediately creates a player imbalance. This makes their situation worse. It seems like we're trying to make things a bit easier for everyone. While not everyone is a fan of it, its needed to keep things going and keep interest up I suspect. Because having it that way is better than not having it at all.

Piggy-backing on that..What I would like to see to in the event of player imbalance is that team get a damage and armor buff relative to how many players are gone. The higher the imbalance, the higher the buff. I'm not even sure if this is possible to do, but I'm trying to do some research into it. Just haven't taken much time to do that yet.

10 hours ago, Gliven said:

I wouldn't mind a game mode where a building death is just temporary. If you kill a building it disables it for 10mins. The first team to disable all buildings at the same time wins. A secondary Victory point would be the first team to lets say 5 building kills win. Scale-able depending on how many buildings there are on the map 

I like this as a alternative. But, I can't imagine this would be a popular alternative mode.

8 hours ago, Quincy said:

Some will argue that the punishment for losing a building should be harsh so that it feels rewarding for the team that destroyed it and so that no campfests & dragging the game to infinity occurs. And some will argue that the punishment for losing a building should be light, so that the losing team still has the motivation to play & chance to win and because comebacks are fun and exciting.

Both are right and I think it's about finding the golden mean.

I also think that right now the punishment is too harsh, for one reason: veterancy. Now if you lose a building you not only get punished by not being able to buy certain units/having lower income, but you also fall behind in veterancy. Especially if you lose a building within first 10 minutes - that results in a team of recruits without a building fighting against a team of veterans. This is also caused by lowering the required amount of VP to advance a rank, which I am still against. 

I am rather against the idea of building reconstruction - sounds boring, it's not intuitive and never been a part of the Renegade series. I might change my mind tho if I see it work.

Instead I would suggest implementing one, some or all of the following:

- decreased amount of VP awarded to the team after destroying a building

- increase amount of VP needed to advance to the next rank so that a team that destroys 1st building doesn't instantly become all veteran

- after losing HoN/bar, enable all infantry for double the price except for adv. engis, 1k snipers, Sydneys/Ravs and Mobiuses/Mendozas. I am not sure about SBH.

- after losing WF/strip, enable all vehicles for double the price except for apaches, orcas, mammoths and stanks. Actually we could consider removing the airdrop rules and just let players buy their vehs whenever.

- after losing ref, it should be 1.5 credit/ second instead of only 1/second.

Losing PP and base defences is fine as it is now.

Implementing all would probably be too much and would lead to the punishment for losing a building being too light. But some of them would feel very welcome.

 

Changes to veterancy is something I'd welcome, but I don't like most of these suggestions at all. That drastically changes the game as a whole. It would lead to much longer games. But, I also feel the game would lose it's identity. Maybe make it a server option.

Renegade isn't a series. It's one game. Renegade-X is just a modernization of said game. It's important to keep a balance, but there are lots of things that can be made better because the original game was not perfect by any means.

[Hotwire/Technician Nerf]

1 hour ago, Madkill40 said:

 

Ukill has made a mutator which removes the second Timed C4, as a gameplay test it would be interesting to see how much of a change this brings to a standard game of RenX at least for *a day, maybe we could use it for just the PUG? Or apply it to one of the CT servers for a day? [If the latter an IRC-announcement would need to appear for a few days beforehand to inform players so they don't assume it's a bug] 

For those who think this will make RenX better/worse, let's give it a try before any permanent changes are made to the base game. 

The usefulness of mutators.

#notmyRenX lmao

[ORCA Steering]

Could that be accomplished through coding?

[Hotwire/Technician Nerf]

5 hours ago, Terekhov said:

Definitely like the part about teams noticing not being punished as much.

Don't you dare take her heavy pistol

 

What about something like (taking off someone's idea ealier):

Hotwire/Technician:

• Heavy Pistol
• Prox Mines
• Repair Gun
• Smoke Grenade or Anti-tank mine

Commando:

• Remote C4 (x2)
• Timed C4 (x2)
• 1 airstrike (purchase to refill)
• No bounding box until you're closer than X distance
• Silenced pistol with the range of a heavy pistol, or maybe SMG?

 

Would be nice if only certain classes - say SBH/Commando and Techie/Hotwire - could use airstrikes. They get spammed a bit much in PUGs right now imo

Adding a addition class is already out of the question according to at least one Dev.

I don't want to add any classes, either.

[Map Pack - Custom Maps]

I just took that as being the case since it had to be hotfixed after the latest patch.

[Map Pack - Custom Maps]

15 minutes ago, DarkSn4ke said:

confirmed

https://renegade-x.com/files/category/4-levels/

you can download the maps here as well (no mappack here, but these versions are up to date)

The last mappack update is kinda old there have been a lot of version updates from various mappers

EDIT: @Wyldcard do NOT download the latest Tomb version if you want to play on a regular server!

Tomb 1.8.1 is the latest release, but the official patch version (regular map rotation) is ~2 versions older?

I thought it was updated to the latest version last patch then hot fixed after that?

[Hotwire/Technician Nerf]

1 hour ago, Xeon Wraith said:

A bit before my time (I think?) but wasn't there a period where 2 timed and 2 remotes were just enough to kill a building - so that defenders could briefly repair a building to prevent destruction? Reverting back to those damage numbers seems like a fair way of nerfing sneaking effectiveness. A team that notices mines dropping and reacts in time should be punished less than one that fails to notice entirely. Losing the majority of a building's hp already applies a heavy amount of pressure on defenders and any medium sized rush should be able to finish the job. Veterancy should be able to scale the damage back to normal values at later ranks, though will require sneakers to actively contribute to the team beforehand. 

Removing the heavy pistol would also increase the effectiveness of other infantry at anti-repairs, which is currently dominated by snipers.

On a side note, I don't really know why Technicians/Hotwires can carry a heavy pistol with 7 pieces of C4 and a repair gun. Just sayin'.

The damage at Recruit is already at that level. If you have a repair gun anywhere on the building, you'll save it most of the time. Just depends on the timing of the hotwire/tech blowing the remote c4.

[Unreleased maps and their status]

Put me down for all days. If something comes up that will likely take priority but I don't foresee anything.

[Walls Ground]

He already released the fix. Go figure. lol

[Walls Ground]

15 hours ago, Henk said:

I thnk he means tomb, the crate on top of the silo can spawn vehicles (checked most recent version in editor)

Yep. Got the two confused. Who do I see about that one?

[Hotwire/Technician Nerf]

6 hours ago, Madkill40 said:

As nice as a 2nd purchasable Timed C4 would be it seems the only way it'd be possible is to allow any/all units to purchase a second timed C4 via the items menu, in which case make that second Timed 700 Credits. (100 credits short of an Airstike)

I still recommend increasing the volume of the Timed C4 'Beeps' for defender purposes because otherwise the game will feel stupid and broken due to the fact that you don't know you've been infiltrated until you lose a building, which is a stupid, inconsiderate and unfair penalty to defenders against infiltrators who have the easiest time because they rely on human stupidity which no game is ever short on.

I already made a suggestion regarding the purchaseable c4 on all characters. I suggested a 800/1000 price point for it just because it makes all units more versatile, and thus make hotwire/tech not such a big deal since everything else would be bring closer to their level.

However, what I want to happen, and I'm told it's possible but needs to be coded in, the c4 can be made to be purchasable only to hotwire/tech. Which would be the best solution, I think. I was thinking a 600/800 price point for this.

Because even if you lock it out to higher VP levels, it's still spamable once they get there.

I fully support louder c4 ticks. However, if it's going to be easier to find, it needs to be longer to disarm. I don't think I'd want to touch eng disarm time just because if he didn't catch it right away, then usually he doesn't disarm it. Hotwire/tech would need to be lowered.

[Pick Up Games (PUGs)]

8 hours ago, CampinJeff said:

@Hohndo just started playing the pugs quite recently and is doing pretty well, he may have some tips for you @dilberteng

Its more getting used to things again. I play Renegade at least every 18 months or so for a stint. This is my first time doing it in Renegade-X.

I did play briefly when we had the auto-rifles you could buy but only for like a day before I went back to good ol' Renegade.

There just seem to be a lot of little changes here and there that I haven't gotten used to yet.

 

7 hours ago, s1N1STER said:

Thanks CampinJeff.  I will plan on getting on TS tomorrow evening and seeing who is around.  I need a new hobby.  Tired of playing R6 siege.

I'll be on briefly but you'll have a better chance catching me o Thursday or Friday. I'm typically on at nights in the US but I don't always get on the CT TS server unless I see other people on it. A lot of times I'll be on UFP's TS server, which has no relation to Ren-X.

[New Items/Upgrades]

I'd be okay with a rechargeable frag grenade.

[Hotwire/Technician Nerf]

I don't agree with the above. Prior to getting the heavy pistol the penalty for soloing with a support class was the fact you could get demolished by just about every other infantry and vehicle in the game if you were caught. That's why you sneak around. Going in larger groups is also often riskier.

You could also argue that the other team should be defending so that a solo won't work. That requires team work as well, but we aren't criticizing them for allowing it to happen. Just about every game I see a attempt at sneaking and a attempt at base defense. I usually do one of these two things. I'm good at sneaking, so in turn, I know how to defend against it most of the time.

Sure, Hotwire/Tech are overpowered, but the reason they are not broken is because both teams have the same opportunities to do the same thing.

I'm still going to argue that them being able to blow up a building should not be taken away, but it either needs a much more significant less spamable cost through a purchaseable c4, or a damage reduction to the Elite VP level.

[Hotwire/Technician Nerf]

1 hour ago, CampinJeff said:

I'm against completely removing HottieTech ability to destroy buildings in one infiltration attempt. Sneaking is indeed a fun dynamic to mess around with and should still be possible to pull off, but not to the extent right now. Removing the ability to destroy a building removes the excitement that people experience. What should be focused on instead is a change in the mentality. Right now, it's like "I'm just going to keep trying through different infantry paths until this works and I'll be a hero", to "Okay I'm wasting money, I'll focus on taking the field instead". 

We could also try increasing infantry brightness if possible. Too easy to miss a hotwire running at the edge of your screen when you're focusing on something else. 

Which is why I think the purchasable c4 is a great idea. Because adding a 2nd c4 for 600 credits seems like a reasonable trade-off.

Alternatively, I would be okay with locking it out at Veteran or Elite VP level but Heroic is too much.

Heroic might be reasonable-ish for PUG, but most people don't only play PUG on the weekends.

[Pick Up Games (PUGs)]

27 minutes ago, CampinJeff said:

Tick tank is basically the medium tank with a lot more maneuverability. 100 less HP, but not significant. Their small turret elevation compared to their body also adds annoying feature where they can shoot at you but you can't shoot back depending on the terrain

It also has a minigun on it you can't use because reasons.

I'm still going to push for a better turn rate. I feel like it was better in old Renegade. Since one aspect of the game was changed to make them less effective, that means they should be changed to be better at what they do. If only slightly.

I don't think I've used a Light Tank since patch so I'll try that before I push any further.

[Pick Up Games (PUGs)]

54 minutes ago, CampinJeff said:

I've noticed that too. Light tanks in original ren were crucial to holding field control, while light tanks in Renx kinda just die without doing much damage. Likely because:

-Ramjets are spammed a lot less often

-Insignificant damage vs infantry, even kevlar

-Faster tank projectile speeds (harder to dodge)

-Medium tanks with sprinting are able to catch up

The only thing they're best at is countering GDI humvees and APCs, but that's about it. You're better off with stanks or flamers in most circumstances. 

I think they just need a speed boost and a better turn rate

I'm not saying they need to be on par with medium tanks, but they should be more effective against them. In original renegade the speed advantage allowed you to move almost unpredictably.

I say this because the Tick Tank feels closer to what we had for light tanks in the original game. Primarily, this is because of its awesome turn rate, since I'm told the Tick Tank is actually slower than a Light Tank.

#makelighttanksgreatagain

I'll post the topic later. Lol

[Hotwire/Technician Nerf]

8 hours ago, Steelpoint said:

Why not spawn Hotwire/Tech with a Silenced Machine Pistol and offer them the ability to buy a alternative weapon. 

For example they could spend 500 credits to buy a Heavy Pistol.

Its far more justifiable for a Hotwire/Tech to be able to hold their ground or be on the offensive if the total cost for them is 850+ credits than just 350 credits (this is excluding ideas of buying explosives)

The point of this whole thread is they already do too much. We're not trying to make them more versatile than they already are.

[Pick Up Games (PUGs)]

1 hour ago, Redarmy said:

I don't know how people are dedicated defenders man, a lot of stress "Shit, team is counting on me to not suck at all." Every building that dies on your watch is a stain against you. And then the waiting, just sitting there, staring at the screen, waiting to see someone dart across, or repeatedily switching view angles like I was on Crash Site making sure GT wasn't getting hit and no one was going for ref. But you sit there, waiting for like 20 minutes on Walls, and you start spacing out. Then since you're spacing out, you don't notice the technician who is disarming the mines at the back of the ref for a solid 15 seconds and you think to yourself when you finally notice him there "Oh, there's a tech there. Wait, there's a tech there?!? When the hell did that Tech get there?! Fuck!" I honestly don't know how Boomer does it all the time.

Maybe I'll give it a shot again. Prior to last week, and in the original renegade, I almost always did base defense. I've actually been enjoying being in the field recently. Got a bit better at sniping but I won't be doing that very often.

I like doing it, but I don't know all the little strategies on some maps so it doesn't make me the best person in some cases.

When you spend most of your time thinking creatively on infiltrating and avoid getting caught and how to get to certain spots you tend to know how to defend better.

[Hotwire/Technician Nerf]

I'm a bit more okay with machine pistol swap.

[Pick Up Games (PUGs)]

11 hours ago, CampinJeff said:

@Hohndo Very good job with field repairs on Sunday

 

13 hours ago, DarkSn4ke said:

On walls you're most likely the only one attacking me [unless bibi catches me..]

Think so too. You can literally watch new players like @Hohndo getting better and better each week

It's what I did best on old Renegade. Thanks!

That and owned in my light tanks. The light tanks in Ren-X don't feel the same, though.

I did a terrible job on Complex repairing but the vehicles kept driving over tiberium, or just too spread out, or Ukill kept sniping me.

[Walls Ground]

To add to this, Gobi is spawning vehicles on top of the Silo.

[Hotwire/Technician Nerf]

2 hours ago, CampinJeff said:

Again Sunday PUG showed that it's still way too easy to just non-stop walk in and blow up a building. Louder mine disarms didn't really change anything. Also taking out multiple PICs with my techie heavy pistol is just not right. 

Agreed on the PIC vs hotwire/tech.

Louder mine disarms would not have changed anything in this situation because everyone was preoccupied with the rush doing or preparing for rushes both times.

That person had good timing, which is not a reason to nerf. Even if this is locked out to higher ranks for "elite" players, the same thing probably would have happened.

But, since they were in a credit bind, having the 2nd c4 cost 600/800 credits, they might not have done it.

[Hotwire/Technician Nerf]

5 hours ago, Fffreak9999 said:

The main difference in this case is that Patch is not invisible, while I like the idea of losing the 2nd timed on item purchase. It would require quite a bit more than that, since 3 timed c4 is still enough to bring a building to critical and still have no time to respond, since all it takes is 1 repair tool to disarm the mines.

I do like the idea of Patch being off radar and having more visibility for stealth units, not a ton more distance, but some.

3 timed c4 is going to be the new trend if this issue is addressed with some major damage reduction on hotwire/tech.

Building stealth kills will not go away because of a fix here. They will just get harder to stop because now you have more offensive units infiltrating instead.

[Reservoir]

5 hours ago, CampinJeff said:

Nope, but to be honest the issue of Nod bases being bigger can be fixed by making their building doors face towards areas with high activity. Also the cargo jet could be a lot quieter so it doesn't ring off alarm bells to GDI that a vehicle attack is coming

Yeah that puts NOD at a huge disadvantage there.

I'd still like to see a weapons factory. It'd make maps more balanced.

You could also do Hand Of NOD similar to Tiberium Sun with only one direction to enter to really level things out to be completely even.