Redarmy

So no vehicles climbing? That's fine. I was thinking it meant stuff like, someone is vehicle surfing and used that height to be able to jump over say, the barrier at HoN on Field.

By no vehicle wall hopping, do you mean no stanks climbing walls? Or do you mean no people jump on top of tanks, and then jump from the tank over a wall? Cause I'd argue riding tanks and allowing that should be fine.

I thought we were going with a democractically elected council as opposed to a tyrannical captain?

Man, if this was a decade ago, I'd be one of those kids posting the cringey youtube comments about being "born in the wrong generation."I used to listen almost exclusively to classic rock. I'm still a rocker, but thankfully my tastes have expanded much more since then. Spruke is a lesser known EDM artist, each album of his is influenced by a specific subgenre. Though he's more well known, at least in the MtG community, for the MtG rap album he released with Pro player Patrick Chapin back in 2011. Soul Chef composes instrumental chill/jazz-hop and has various people on his tracks to lay down some lyrics. Pretty similar to Nujabes. Ben Folds, famous for "Brick" by Ben Folds Five. His solo career after the breakup in 2000 though lead to him doing a lot of tracks with much more humorous tone to them.

If I'm not mistaken team M A N T A N K S has replacement for Sarah on our team. @DoctorB0NG

BUG: Tested this a few times. On Eyes, if you try flying above the Obelisk (as GDI) and it targets/tries firing at you, the game crashes. Edit: It should be noted I tested this with Orca, Apache, GDI Transport, while on GDI all lead to crashes. I also tried being on Nod and just flying around the Obelisk while it fired at bots, couldn't seem to get it to crash then. Edit2: I just tried this on Field_X just to test if it's related to Obelisk in general or was map specific. First I simply tried enabling fly and floating around the Obelisk as a patch, couldn't cause it to crash. Then I spawned in an Orca and once again was able to cause the game to crash by flying near and above the Obelisk. Attached is my log for the test on Field_X Also, I don't know if this is known already and/or is even in other maps, but I was able to walk up on the air along the side of the bar ramp. Launch (Field_X Test).log

Suggestion: Set starting CP to 0. What Team 2 accomplished on Complex in today's PUG with the early offensive buff with just a few arties is way too strong. -OR- Have certain powers get unlocked as time progresses in game. This way an early rush using smokescreen could still be possible.

Suggestion (Bug?): While holding Alt, the list of radio options includes C for Commander Menu still. Pressing C does nothing though. Suggested to either remove it from the list while holding alt, or allow alt+c to also bring up the menu.

Aren't commander points gained via teamwork though? The tradeoff would be them having to not use any other commander ability for awhile at least to be able to afford to bring back the building, plus I feel the building only having partial functionality at first in general is a tradeoff as well. The problem with this is, unless it's accumulating an absurdly high amount of VP, I can totally see some players, buying a sniper, and earning multiple "buy credits." The player would be able to essentially act like nothing is destroyed for them and be able to stack "buying credits." Then also I feel like mammoth tanks in general would be an issue with this. Mammoth tanks have the tendency to not die after hitting elite. Mammoth tanks also have really long range and can farm buildings for VP pretty easily. This once again, leads to a single person, being able to stack "buying credits" and either they're able to behave as if the WF isn't destroyed for them at all, or with their stacked credits, they could just buy tanks for everyone else who didn't earn "buying credits." A problem with spending VP would be dedicated repairs actually. As far as I know, veterancy doesn't increase the rate at which engineers heal. It only increases the range. And while yeah sure, being elite is pretty nice as field repair because you basically never ever have to worry about your health then, it's not really required. Whichever way you try to go about implementing spending VP, the best thing would always be repairs spend their VP to unlock vehicles/buy back the WF, so everyone else still keeps all their VP for their tanks where it matters.

I've been thinking more on partial implementation and stuff like an Obelisk still being able to shoot while it's dead. I think I came up with a pretty good solution, which I'm going to refer to as "zombie buildings." Zombie buildings still have health, in fact they're brought back to full health, but just like zombies, they're still dead. They do not count towards "alive structures" for the team. Meaning if the WF is "zombified" on Walls, Nod only needs to destroy the Bar, Refinery, and Power Plant to win. The Zombie WF can still have health and be standing, but if the others go down, GDI still loses. Zombie buildings do not have the full functionality of their normal state, so partial implementation of features only still. Since destroyed buildings are actually still standing in RenX, I like to think of this as, engineers doing their best to patch up the ruined structure, but with such a quick rush job needed for the battlefield, they're unable to do full repairs only regaining some of the building's usage. I was also thinking, zombie buildings should be easier to kill than normal buildings, since killing them doesn't technically progress the enemy team towards victory. This can be accomplished in a few ways. First I thought maybe just they take increased damage, but I think it would be best for the total health/time to kill, needs to be the same as normal buildings, so this way infiltration is still the same. This leaves two options, hell, maybe use both options. One, zombie buildings receive a repair debuff modifier, all repair beams are less effective at healing them, requiring more units to have to rush inside to keep it alive if it's under siege. Two, zombie buildings have more permanent health, but less armor, so the damage threshold needed to actually damage it is lessened. As far as partial implementation goes, I feel like it should be something like this: Hand of Nod/Barracks - Units cost normal amount. No access to 1ks or Advanced Engineers. This still enables all relevant infantry roles for the team in a decent, workable way. Weapons Factory/Airstrip - Vehicles cost normal amount and are "built" normally, no air drop required. No access to signature vehicles: Mammoth Tank, Flame Tank, and Stealth Tank. This allows teams to maintain a field presence without them still having their be-all-end-all. Refinery - I thought about this one a bit more. Instead of just returning the credit tick back to two, it'd make more sense for the harvester to also come back. Losing refinery is pretty damning in general, and bringing this back needs to really help lessen that impact. The refining of tiberium is less effecient. Credit tick at 1.5/second, harvester dump only gives 50% of normal amount for the map. Alternate idea for what Refinery provides in general - This requires changing some non-refinery maps (Snow) around probably. Refinery provides no credit tick. Players just have a base 2 credits a second tick in general, or simply have refinery's destruction not affect it's credit tick at all. This suggestion is purely based on the fact that losing refinery sucks and will help slightly mitigate the damage from it's destruction. Power Plant - I like what I said earlier about powering minor defenses. Minor Defenses back online, cost debuff is cut in half. Alternate Power Plant - Since this system would be messing with the Obelisk and AGT's functionality anyways, Obelisk and AGT back online, at 50% damage and 50% RoF respectively. Cost debuff cut in half. Obelisk - 30-50% reduced damage. Advance Guard Tower - 30-50% reduction on rate of fire. For a system such as this, what I said on health costs earlier is unnecessarily extreme. If you wanted to just fully bring back a building, then yes, I think honestly about 50% of all other buildings health should be sacrificed for that. With partial implementation though and a debuff to survivability, I don't think a health cost is even the best route. I feel the cost would have to be really low for it to be worth it, and a cost low enough for that would be unfair to the opposing team. Using the new commander point system would probably be the best option here. Now, I don't know much about the commander point system like what it caps at (or does it even cap?), the rate it's gained at, nor the price of other commander abilities, so I'll leave that cost speculation to others. Another thing I like about this "zombie building" system with partial implementation is, if you really want to (I personally don't, just tossing this out there for the people who want buildings fully back), you could stagger it, create tiers, and possibly include full functionality if desired. I would only suggest doing this if it's a high enough cost and possibly a cooldown timer is implemented for each building so this way the enemy team has plenty of time to take advantage of well, the advantage they created. Think about this as, the commander ordering engineers back into the building and fixing it up a bit more, the engineers spent more time and resources, so they regained more building functionality! An example of zombie tiers: Tier 1 - What I said above. Tier 2 - A halfway point. 1ks and adv engis are purchasable, for 175-200% base cost. Mammoth, Flame, and Stealth tanks are available for air drop, 150-200% base cost. Refinery operates at 75%. Power Plant is hard to balance out for this one, but removing cost increase (or lessening it further) is best option. Halve the reduction of Obelisk damage and AGT RoF. Tier 3 - Fully Functional. Buildings operate normally. At each tier buildings will still be considered zombies. They'll still be counted as dead buildings towards victory condition. Whatever debuffs they receive on survivability will still be in effect on them. Also, they can totally be represented in the HUD building status with new colors! Like TOXIC GREEN! or PLAGUE PURPLE! Or even both, maybe green normally and purple when it's "critical," like how red is critical for normal buildings. Then visually on the outside of the building, it could be represented by janky bolted on steel plates that cover holes! Or something, I'm sure the dev team can think of something cool for that.

So I was talking to Gliven about his idea with VP, and one thing that I think is important is, the sense of pride and accomplishment™ needs to be maintained for the team that destroyed the building originally. I mentioned that if the VP idea could be implemented, it still shouldn't be applicable to Advanced engineers, 1k infantry, and signature vehicles (Mammoth, Flame Tank, and Stealth Tank). Just like how I assume if this were to affect refinery, it wouldn't bring back the harvester, but the trickle income would return to 2 credits. The major blow of losing the building is still there, but it's not as bad. You can't just have the WF be destroyed, only to have GDI field like 4 mammoth tanks anyways and win Islands because of it. Or allow hon to be destroyed and then a tech or 2 Raveshaws just infiltrate and sneak a building anyways. The idea of a building health cost is definitely intriguing, though it'd have to be something significant. Something like, 40-60% of all other buildings current HP is sacrificed to revive a building back to partial health, somewhere between maybe 20-35%. I don't agree with the 1% notion because that's almost pointless for a building like HoN in Walls where it can easily be bombarded from afar. Probably include a stipulation of sorts to where no building could be below 10 or 20% to do this, so a team doesn't just pay peanuts for a building. How would this work with multiple buildings down? Not sure, probably it not being doable with multiple buildings down is the best answer anyways. In general though, getting back the building's full usage is iffy at best I feel, but partial recovery is also somewhat of a headache in a few scenarios. You don't want to treat buildings differently from each other, it should be similar affects for each one, and what they enable needs to be intuitive. The two biggest headaches in this case is simply base defense and power plant. How do you partially bring the power plant back? Does the hit to cost remain, but base defenses return online? Does the hit to cost get removed and base defenses stay offline? What about maps without base defenses, that do have a power plant though? To answer that question myself, I think the best bet would be to include minor base defenses (GT/AA/Turret) in all maps with a PP then, and have them also only be functional if the PP is online. Most maps already fit this except for like, GDI on Under, Field, Mesa and Arctic Stronghold I think? Partial implementation could then bring minor defenses operational again without bringing the AGT/Obby back online and either not affect the credit cost, or reduce it. Though this in general is a fairly radical change to RenX and would require a few maps to be tweaked that allow GDI to have Guard Towers and the guard towers not being an insane advantage (or design a new minor base defense building for GDI!). Then the other question is, partial implementation of the AGT/Obby. How do you partially bring those back? How do you partially bring them back without it also being broken that they can't be destroyed? 50% reduced rate of fire on AGT with a 50% damage reduction on obelisk? The fact that they're still dead and able to kill people though would be infuriating in general, but it does allow vehicles to move in rather safely. I'm not saying any of this is right or the answer, but these are questions I feel need to be asked.

That's waaaay more work than just using MS Paint.

@Gliven's idea for Mesa changes: Essentially, every obstacle in red should be removed, blue should be added. The short path should be widened slightly. This removes most of the cover arties have and reduces the choke points for flame tanks to hold. These changes allow GDI more of a chance to fight back for vehicle control of short side. -------------------------------------------------- My idea for Mesa change, with some input from @CampinJeff: Black = extend the mountain range, blue and yellow are potential new infantry tunnels, blue leads to bridge, yellow leads to silo, basically same result from both. Brown area = Rock arch which should be positioned in a way to where neither side can sit back and still fully assault the enemy base. Red = potential for infantry only zone that so far no one else seems to agree with. The main idea of this is to minimize the impact the short path has, while still allowing it to exist. The potential new infantry tunnels allow infantry to be able to quickly reach the short path and help out if need be, while also giving Nod a 3rd building to worry about getting infiltrated.

Well obviously @Henk, but until that does happen. I believe they should be banned. Mesa was the first PUG game today. It was over within like, 15 minutes, without a surrender vote even being passed. A surrender vote almost did pass though, and the game ended within 3 minutes of the failed vote anyways. The map is almost pointless to even play right now as GDI in a PUG. I feel the same way about Whiteout. I only included Field in the list because I could see someone arguing for that one aswell (someone actually did vote for it too), though I feel if Nod has sniper advantage, utilizing "man-tanks" make enough of a difference for Nod to have a chance to win. On top of that, Nod does have a variety of alternative options outside of just field control to also tip the game in their favor.

Copying this from the discord: I was thinking, maybe we should remove some imbalanced maps from PUGs. Like, realistically on Mesa, there's no chance for GDI to win unless teams are heavily imbalanced or Nod just has zero teamwork and cooperation. Personally, I think both Whiteout and Mesa should be removed for this reason. http://www.strawpoll.me/14431064 Also, boxes suggested: "in the meantime we should probably come up with solutions or ideas to make mesa more balanced and send it to a dev"

I miss 24 hour long games of CnC_Field and CnC_Under.

I got my own card?! I am honored.

RenX has been ruined since the Dev team at Westwood Studios came up with the idea for CnC Renegade. /thread

Holy shit I think that is a great idea.

Make Mammoths 1750. With veterancy, Flamer MS and turn speed should increase more, that way no matter the map, flamers can still end up being effective later on at least to counter mammoths better.

@Sarah! What's the different between anti-tank/inf and anti everything?

I think it's kind of ridiculous that 1k snipers get carbines to begin with. Give them the fucking silenced machine pistol or a regular silenced pistol. Snipers having a silenced secondary actually makes sense as to not give away their local area anyways. If any 1k should have a Carbine it should be the 1k anti-tanks, but I don't even agree with that really. Also, #MakeLCGsSurviveRamjetHeadshots

I think the spread actually helps people who aren't good at aiming. Though people who aren't good at aiming shouldn't be sniping anyways.

@Schmitzenbergh By hardware noobs I think he means we need to ban anyone using a graphics card newer than the GeForce4 Ti 4600 and an Intel Pentium 4 CPU. If they were good enough for C&C Renegade, they're good enough for RenX. Anything that performs better than those is using hardware to cheat by helping to create a smoother in game experience.

Not really. Infantry really need to be able to ambush it for that to happen, and even then a single timed c4 isn't going to do anything to a mammoth. Where mammoths were at before was fine. It was slightly underpowered, but having one in the field was still fairly standard and typically a good thing. You talk about arties being a supportive vehicle, that's what mammoths should be as well. Mammoths shouldn't be the majority of GDI tanks in the field. Now in a map like Walls, if GDI gets two out it's basically GG for Nod on the public servers. Any arty will instantly die. Flame tanks can't get remotely close enough. Light tanks do no damage. Vehicle paths aren't big enough for stanks to be able to swarm or ambush. The tusk missiles are still good vs Apaches. If GDI has a decent sniper LCGs are useless since they move so slowly. Nod realistically can't do anything against 2-3 mammoths in some maps. Call in an airstrike, and the elite/heroic mammoth will sit there and eat the airstrike not giving a damn about it.